2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation - Free Agency Begins

[bwgood77]

For all those saying they wouldn't start Okogie, I do get it, but he showed vast improvement at times last season.

But using his playoff performance to advocate for someone else is kind of tough, given Yuta couldn't even get minutes or Brooklyn in the playoffs. He played 5 minutest total in BKN's series this year and 10 minute in 6 games the year before.

And KBD didn't even make it to the playoffs except in 2020 when he playe 16 minutes in one 7 game series and 8 minutes in their other 7 game series. He shot 20%.

I understand people who may want Gordon based on talent but that make us really small and stretched defensively. It also might be rare we have our 4 regular starters AND Gordon all healthy at the same time, so I would keep him at 6th many and start him if a guard is out.

Our hole may be if KD is out for awhile because our SF/PF backups are probably far from reliable offensively. If we had a 3 guard lineup though including Gordon with KBD or something, it would probably work ok though, if KBD ends up being somewhat reliable.

[WeekapaugGroove]

So a Beal, Booker, Okogie, Durant, Ayton starting 5 would just be Beal replacing Paul.

Given all the talk about high turnover, lack of depth, and massive taxes none seem to be actually true.

Depth was an issue to start last year, so when we made the trade mid season and people argued it didn't hurt our depth because we got KD and TJ for Mikal and Cam, it didn't deepen it, and it gave us TJ who was barely a rotation player at that point, and KD, who plays about half his games. For Mikal who plays them all, and Cam, who is up and down.

So it hurt a little bit but our depth was bad to start with once Crowder decided to sit out.

This year depth may not be worse but it isn't strong after our starters.

But despite having said that, we have the best starting lineup probably, at least offensively, and I think we did extremely well with minimum contracts, especially the Eric Gordon one.

Of course it remains to be seen how good KBD, Okogie, Yuta, Eubanks, Goodwin, etc, will play.Will they be better than minimum players? Probably a couple will,or each will at times and each will look awful at times.

I think our biggest issues will be defensive and turnovers. Possibly rebounding some, but I think with KD being a better rebounding PF than anyone else we'd have next to Ayton will help in that regard.

With this teams size and length across the board I actually think they should be a good rebounding team.

I also have no real concerns about the offense, this team will score.

It all rides on D. They don't have to be great defensively, even like around 10th should be good enough. My biggest concern is on the perimeter, they really need Booker to continue his growth there and they need Beal to focus enough to be not bad.

Sent from my SM-G986U using RealGM mobile app

[Hitachi77]

Payne deal is incredibly stupid if the don’t get another player down the road, will see what happens. A lot of faith in players who haven’t played for us yet.

And I don’t like Okogie starting. He was scared to shoot in the playoffs. Reg season he will be fine, but that’s the scary part. Hopefully we don’t have to scramble to find players who can make open shots in the playoffs, again.

Btw Payne is the only guy who showed up in game 6 vs the Nuggets. I get that he has been injured and inconsistent, but playoff production can’t be taken for granted.

Bradley Beal is our starting PG.
Jordan Goodwin is our backup PG.

We didn't have enough minutes for Payne. Book and Gordon are gonna play high minutes at SG and both can play some PG too, so Payne would have been at best the 5th guy on the backcourt.

It's smart to not pay over $26M in luxury tax for a player that's not part of the rotation. I like Payne but he doesn't make sense on this new roster.

Bradley Beal is a terrific ball handler/facilitator, he is gonna make a great job as a primary ball handler. Look at McCollum on the Pelicans...he was mostly a SG on the Blazers for about 10 consecutive years and he has been playing really well as a "PG" since being traded.

Beal is a better version of McCollum...he is gonna have a bigger and better impact on the Suns.

Jordan Goodwin fits nicely next to Eric Gordon as a backcourt partner. And we have Saben Lee waiting his opportunity too...we are loaded at PG/SG.

Yea, I’m just worried about anyone outside of our big 3, other than Gordon. Everyone is unproven. But we will see what happens.

[Hitachi77]

A one game sample isn't enough. He sucked last playoffs as playoffs as well if you recall and he just wasn't healthy most of last season. The guy just hasn't been trustworthy or frankly good enough to stick with this roster and while I really like him as a person and what he brought off the court, I totally get why we needed to take this risk and move on.

With something like 5-6 new 2nd round picks in our offers, we're far from done.

I get what you are saying but at least we know he CAN produce in the playoffs. We did take 2 games off Denver with him as PG, and we can’t just cite his stats and say he sucked in those games.

For the playoffs last year, the only other role players that did anything at all were Craig vs the Clippers, and Shamet in game 4 vs the Nuggets. It was terribleness across the board other than that. So it’s a bit scary that essentially all of our role players are unproven, except Gordon who was obv a great pickup.

Payne had some awesome moments for the suns but I do think teams with length like the Pels and Bucks really got to him. Seemed to get in his head and render him almost unplayable.

Sent from my SM-G986U using RealGM mobile app

Yeah, I get your point, but he did still have his moments in the playoffs last year and the year before, though a massive drop off from 2021.

I am just worried about these role players playing well for stretches in the reg season, then completely disappearing in the playoffs. Guys like Okogie and even Ish were good at times in the reg season, then completely disappeared in the playoffs. We have a strong 3, maybe 4 if you include Ayton, but can’t have that 5th guy bricking shot after shot, or passing up shot after shot.

At least we have Gordon, but you know someone is going to get hurt, maybe multiple someones.

[Jdiddy701]

Some may not agree but the Suns need to get Kelly Oubre.. would be the cherry on the top on the Suns’ offseason imo. Like BWGOOD mentioned, if KD were to miss time, the Suns don’t have a proven player to step in. I’m very curious where Oubre lands and how much $$ he gets.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[matt131]

Read on Twitter

?s=46

[matt131]

Read on Twitter

?s=46

Looks like a Suns G League team coming within the next week or so.

[bullsaficianado]

What about Blake Griffin? he's still a free agent.

[WeekapaugGroove]

What about Blake Griffin? he's still a free agent.

He'd be good for the vibes but I'm not sure his body has anything left to give an NBA team.

I'm happy that other than Gordon the suns went for younger players with some upside with their minimum deals vs the 'more name than game' vets.

Sent from my SM-G986U using RealGM mobile app

[Saberestar]

Read on Twitter

?s=46

Looks like a Suns G League team coming within the next week or so.

Kudos to Mat Ishbia.

[bullsaficianado]

What about Blake Griffin? he's still a free agent.

He'd be good for the vibes but I'm not sure his body has anything left to give an NBA team.

I'm happy that other than Gordon the suns went for younger players with some upside with their minimum deals vs the 'more name than game' vets.

Sent from my SM-G986U using RealGM mobile app

Maybe. Celtics barely played him last season. I think Oubre is worth going after more.

[Fo-Real]

Read on Twitter

?s=46

Looks like a Suns G League team coming within the next week or so.

JESUS, this dude is doing everything at once!!!!

[Fo-Real]

What about Blake Griffin? he's still a free agent.

Please no!! I know the term WASHED is overused here but that dude is not an NBA player anymore.

[Saberestar]

What about Blake Griffin? he's still a free agent.

No, thanks. Retirement is gonna be his new team.

[Saberestar]

Some may not agree but the Suns need to get Kelly Oubre.. would be the cherry on the top on the Suns’ offseason imo. Like BWGOOD mentioned, if KD were to miss time, the Suns don’t have a proven player to step in. I’m very curious where Oubre lands and how much $$ he gets.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I would agree (for the minimum) if we wouldn't have signed Eric Gordon, but with him already on the roster Oubre isn't a good fit.

Oubre doesn't pass the ball and he plays just for himself. On a contender he would fit as an scorer coming from the bench but we are set at that.

[bwgood77]

So a Beal, Booker, Okogie, Durant, Ayton starting 5 would just be Beal replacing Paul.

Given all the talk about high turnover, lack of depth, and massive taxes none seem to be actually true.

Depth was an issue to start last year, so when we made the trade mid season and people argued it didn't hurt our depth because we got KD and TJ for Mikal and Cam, it didn't deepen it, and it gave us TJ who was barely a rotation player at that point, and KD, who plays about half his games. For Mikal who plays them all, and Cam, who is up and down.

So it hurt a little bit but our depth was bad to start with once Crowder decided to sit out.

This year depth may not be worse but it isn't strong after our starters.

But despite having said that, we have the best starting lineup probably, at least offensively, and I think we did extremely well with minimum contracts, especially the Eric Gordon one.

Of course it remains to be seen how good KBD, Okogie, Yuta, Eubanks, Goodwin, etc, will play.Will they be better than minimum players? Probably a couple will,or each will at times and each will look awful at times.

I think our biggest issues will be defensive and turnovers. Possibly rebounding some, but I think with KD being a better rebounding PF than anyone else we'd have next to Ayton will help in that regard.

With this teams size and length across the board I actually think they should be a good rebounding team.

I also have no real concerns about the offense, this team will score.

It all rides on D. They don't have to be great defensively, even like around 10th should be good enough. My biggest concern is on the perimeter, they really need Booker to continue his growth there and they need Beal to focus enough to be not bad.

Sent from my SM-G986U using RealGM mobile app

10th defensively is pretty great, especially for this crew. I know we have a few defensive studs,but they are not likely to be playing many minutes vs starters, particularly at the same time. If our starting offensive unit ranked 10th defensively, that would be phenomenal, but I think that would be tough. But we should be near the top offensively. But hopefully we can hit more 3s instead of just being the midrange mafia.

Beal last year was 55.2% from 2 and 36.5% from 3...similar to Booker who was 55.4% from 2 and 35.1% from 2.

I expect us to be quite a bit worse with turnovers too. Hopefully we do move the ball a lot and don't turn into an iso team with guys taking turns, but they all seem to be good passers despite all the shots they take.

[bwoolf2]

Some may not agree but the Suns need to get Kelly Oubre.. would be the cherry on the top on the Suns’ offseason imo. Like BWGOOD mentioned, if KD were to miss time, the Suns don’t have a proven player to step in. I’m very curious where Oubre lands and how much $$ he gets.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I would agree (for the minimum) if we wouldn't have signed Eric Gordon, but with him already on the roster Oubre isn't a good fit.

Oubre doesn't pass the ball and he plays just for himself. On a contender he would fit as an scorer coming from the bench but we are set at that.

Ishbia said in his interview that he doesn't see any more moves coming and really likes the team they have assembled, focused on shooting, length, youth and athleticism thinks they addressed that and mentioned he thinks Ayton will be a star. He is a pretty straightforward guy in interviews, unless they get an amazing offer they can't refuse the roster is set for training camp.

[lilfishi22]

Payne deal is incredibly stupid if the don’t get another player down the road, will see what happens. A lot of faith in players who haven’t played for us yet.

And I don’t like Okogie starting. He was scared to shoot in the playoffs. Reg season he will be fine, but that’s the scary part. Hopefully we don’t have to scramble to find players who can make open shots in the playoffs, again.

Btw Payne is the only guy who showed up in game 6 vs the Nuggets. I get that he has been injured and inconsistent, but playoff production can’t be taken for granted.

A one game sample isn't enough. He sucked last playoffs as playoffs as well if you recall and he just wasn't healthy most of last season. The guy just hasn't been trustworthy or frankly good enough to stick with this roster and while I really like him as a person and what he brought off the court, I totally get why we needed to take this risk and move on.

With something like 5-6 new 2nd round picks in our offers, we're far from done.

I get what you are saying but at least we know he CAN produce in the playoffs. We did take 2 games off Denver with him as PG, and we can’t just cite his stats and say he sucked in those games.

For the playoffs last year, the only other role players that did anything at all were Craig vs the Clippers, and Shamet in game 4 vs the Nuggets. It was terribleness across the board other than that. So it’s a bit scary that essentially all of our role players are unproven, except Gordon who was obv a great pickup.

We also replaced much of that with offensive upside with Gordon and I think we can expect a boost in consistency as well which is one of the bigger issues with Cam. In the same way I don't look at DA's excellent 2021 playoff run and say, that's the player he is; I don't think it would be fair to look at a small sample of great Cam Payne games and say that's the player he is either, especially when they haven't shown it with any sort of consistency for some time.

I would rather have Payne than relying solely on Goodwin/Okogie/Lee as the 4th ball handlers for sure but I also don't expect we're done yet with our roster. We have until March or whenever to pick someone up, we have until the trade deadline to make trades, we have 3 TPE's and a half dozen 2nd rounders we can move to get that guy.

[Saberestar]

Some may not agree but the Suns need to get Kelly Oubre.. would be the cherry on the top on the Suns’ offseason imo. Like BWGOOD mentioned, if KD were to miss time, the Suns don’t have a proven player to step in. I’m very curious where Oubre lands and how much $$ he gets.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I would agree (for the minimum) if we wouldn't have signed Eric Gordon, but with him already on the roster Oubre isn't a good fit.

Oubre doesn't pass the ball and he plays just for himself. On a contender he would fit as an scorer coming from the bench but we are set at that.

Ishbia said in his interview that he doesn't see any more moves coming and really likes the team they have assembled, focused on shooting, length, youth and athleticism thinks they addressed that and mentioned he thinks Ayton will be a star. He is a pretty straightforward guy in interviews, unless they get an amazing offer they can't refuse the roster is set for training camp.

Good to know it.

Beal/Goodwin/Saben*
Book/Gordon/Damion
KBD/Okogie/Camara
KD/Watanabe/Bol/Wainright**
Ayton/Eubanks/Metu

*Two-way contract.
**Non guaranteed deal.

[lilfishi22]

Biggest difference when comparing KD/Kyrie/Harden trio, which had great results in the 20 games they played together, against KD/Book/Beal trio is Harden's playmaking. He's underrated as a playmaker with his multiple 10+ apg seasons. In Beal Suns doubled on Book's skillset. 6-7 apg max seasons, but also not great A/T ratio, <2 for both. I imagine Suns offense will be mostly ISOs and PnRs with Ayton.

I think Eddie Johnson was saying Book is ready to up his game in the assists department. EJ believed Book could average over 10 per game. Just comparing Harden's and Westbrook's early career numbers they were similar to Books and then they both jumped above 10 per game in their late 20's. Every year Booker adds a new wrinkle to his game so I would not be surprised.

I believe Book can certainly flirt with double digit assists but I doubt he will get there because his role is just so different. Harden and Westbrook's roles changed massively once Harden went to Houston to be the man and WB became a one-man wrecking machine once KD left OKC.

With KD and Beal on the team, I just don't think Book will have that opportunity especially with news that Beal is the likely PG.