The Official 2024 Offseason Thread Part 2

[Fo-Real]

Book leading scorer for Team USA as of now. Despite Kerr strangely benching for a long time in 2nd qtr.

He got 2 fouls, you only get 5. Was saving him for the second half in case he needed him to be effective.

[sunskerr]

Being an Aussie, I obviously have more investment in Team Aus in Olympic basketball and it was disappointing to see them get knocked out in OT by the Joker. Part of watching them is knowing that they aren't going to blow teams away and no game is a foregone conclusion but I was wondering how interested people are in watching team USA considering how dominant they are.

I'll be honest, aside from 1-2 highlights I haven't watched a single Team USA game because they are just so much more talented than any other team and it's essentially their gold medal to lose. I find it hard to be interested in that

I feel you there. I'm American but I lived in Aus as a kid and my dad is Canadian so those are the international teams I follow. I've never really cared for the US teams (in any sport, really) because of my background and without getting too political, other reasons to do with history. And yeah, they're just too good. Love what Booker has been able to do though.

Very sad to see Aus and Canada go out in flames like this. Was expecting a medal from one of them at least.

[lilfishi22]

Don't know how I missed this

https://www.si.com/nba/suns/news/deandre-ayton-again-expected-traded
PHOENIX -- Former Phoenix Suns big man Deandre Ayton is expected to be on the move once again.

According to NBA insider Brett Siegel, the Portland Trail Blazers - who acquired Ayton via trade last season from Phoenix - are expected to part ways with the former No. 1 overall pick:

“At some point, the Blazers and Ayton are expected to part ways, sources said, yet the former first overall pick doesn’t command a market at this time,” Siegel reported via Hoops Wire.

There's no way DA is netting us a starting level C and a Grayson Allen had we held onto the quickly depreciating asset

[lilfishi22]

Being an Aussie, I obviously have more investment in Team Aus in Olympic basketball and it was disappointing to see them get knocked out in OT by the Joker. Part of watching them is knowing that they aren't going to blow teams away and no game is a foregone conclusion but I was wondering how interested people are in watching team USA considering how dominant they are.

I'll be honest, aside from 1-2 highlights I haven't watched a single Team USA game because they are just so much more talented than any other team and it's essentially their gold medal to lose. I find it hard to be interested in that

I feel you there. I'm American but I lived in Aus as a kid and my dad is Canadian so those are the international teams I follow. I've never really cared for the US teams (in any sport, really) because of my background and without getting too political, other reasons to do with history. And yeah, they're just too good. Love what Booker has been able to do though.

Very sad to see Aus and Canada go out in flames like this. Was expecting a medal from one of them at least.

I also have Canadian ties so they have always been my 2nd international team I root for so it was disappointed to see them lose to France.

As for as Team USA goes, it feels like an NBA allstar team vs a high level college team. They are just on a completely different level. And sure another team could get hot or Team USA could get cold but that's about the only time it's interesting. Part of the highlights I've watched are really more focused on KD and Book....didn't really care for anyone else quite frankly

[Mulhollanddrive]

What's the status of our 2031 pick, is it frozen now?

Or will the 2032 pick be the first frozen?

[Mulhollanddrive]

Durant and Booker would be training anyway but I wonder if Olympics will affect them with their short off season?

[lilfishi22]

What's the status of our 2031 pick, is it frozen now?

Or will the 2032 pick be the first frozen?

My reading of it is it's the 2032 pick. I believe the 2023-2024 season was a 2nd apron amnesty year so we were limited the 1st apron rules (e.g 100% matching salaries for trade purposes, can't sign buyout guys who made more than the full MLE). However moving forward, the 2nd apron limitations would apply and I'm guessing the 7 years would begin then.

The second-apron repercussions will begin in earnest once the league calendar flips to 2024-25, with teams above that threshold now losing any mid-level exception entirely. They aren’t just limited to the 100% salary matching in trades, but second apron teams will also be prohibited from combining multiple players’ salaries into trades as well. Phoenix, as a specific example, could not trade both Jusuf Nurkić and Nassir Little for one player making $24.8 million. Second-apron teams also can’t utilize trade exceptions from previous years or send cash to help get deals get over the finish line.

Just how punitive this final element of the second-apron punishments turns out is what has league executives most curious about this summer’s activity — and how the next few seasons of roster construction unfold. Second-apron teams won’t be able to trade their first-round pick seven years into the future. So, if you’re in the second apron by season’s end of 2024-25, you’ll automatically have your 2032 first-round pick frozen and unable to be dealt. That might seem like a way-off draft asset, but those picks are valuable for contending teams that have already emptied much of their war chests. The Bucks, for instance, sent their 2030 first-round pick to the Portland Trail Blazers as part of their September 2023 blockbuster to acquire Damian Lillard.

[bigfoot]

Read on Twitter

[lilfishi22]

Read on Twitter

For most players, a decade long NBA career is a hella achievement, even as a journeyman. But for a former #1 pick, in a historically great draft who had all the talent and physical attribute to absolutely be a force in the NBA, that would be a disappointing career.

[Qwigglez]

DA already accomplished what he wanted though. Get that 2nd contract. A lot of players don't get that, Josh Jackson, Dragan Bender, Marquiss Chriss.

[sunsbg]

KD with the record. Book leading scorer in the game shooting well from distance again. Nice.

[sunsbg]

DA already accomplished what he wanted though. Get that 2nd contract. A lot of players don't get that, Josh Jackson, Dragan Bender, Marquiss Chriss.

Nobody of these guys had the character to maximise their talent. Great drafting, McDonough.

[NapoleonII]

DA already accomplished what he wanted though. Get that 2nd contract. A lot of players don't get that, Josh Jackson, Dragan Bender, Marquiss Chriss.

Nobody of these guys had the character to maximise their talent. Great drafting, McDonough.

McDummy recognized himself in these players.

Delusional/lazy recognizes delusional/lazy.

[bwgood77]

Top 3 defensive center
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/best-defensive-rating-centers-2024

Number 1 TRB percentage for all players
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/best-rebounder-percentage-in-nba-2024

Number 5 plus minus for centers
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/top-plus-minus-for-centers-in-nba-2024

Number 3 in steals for centers
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/top-steals-for-centers-in-nba-2024

Number 5 in assists for centers
viewtopic.php?f=27&t=2387953&start=1820

Number 6 in block percentage for centers
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/top-block-percentage-for-centers-in-nba-2024

Number 5 in rebounds per game for centers
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/top-rebounders-for-centers-in-nba-2024

Number 16 highest paid center next year.

People whining about nothing.

Biggest issue for me...
2nd worst plus minus for centers in the playoffs.
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/worst-plus-minus-for-centers-in-2024-playoffs

6th worst defensive rating for centers in the playoffs (Eubanks at No 1 is not at all surprising).
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/worst-defensive-rating-for-centers-in-2024-playoffs

But really you could cherry pick stats all day and find the worst and best things for every player I feel like.

6th worst FG% for centers in 2024.
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask?q=worst+fg%25+for+centers+in+2024

Worst turnover% for centers. Also, top 5 in turnovers for a center, and considering he has such a low USG% compared to the other top 5 centers on the list says something about his decision making.
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask?q=worst+turnover%25+for+centers+in+2024
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/most-turnovers-for-centers-in-2024

I try not to post often because I lack the depth and breadth of knowledge of the Suns evidenced by most on this board. But these two posts were fantastic in providing valid reasons for conflicting viewpoints. I'll also admit that I am strongly on the pro-Nurkic side of the argument. This is primarily because I've felt since watching that the team was much better with Jusuf on the floor -- but also considering the stats. I would just like to add minor context to the discussion.

The 82 game performance of a team that was eighth best in the league is being weighed against (IMO) a questionable (small) four game playoff sample of losses by an average of 15 PPG. In the larger sample size Nurkic had the substantial team best on court, off court, and net positive. Some months ago when I looked into the playoff numbers, for the four games, all our plus minus numbers were minus because of the 60 point losing differential. But among that negativity Jusuf had the lst, 2d, and twice third best in the team's four losses. Because of the overall team performance, I suggest the individual numbers could be skewed when compared to those of the more winning playoff teams.

Another thing herein that impressed me was:

Number sixteen highest paid center next year.

Nurkic's numbers were nominally down, but he still finished 2d to Gobert (I think) in his forte, rebounding. He was alone, if you don't count Eubanks, against $103 million dollars of centers, and on an infinitely smaller team. I was encouraged by the addition of Plumlee, but am yet uncertain Bol or the newbies can improve the PF depth. In any event I think that the Suns got their money's worth with Nurkic.

Great post. He is great at many things but I feel the main issues are defense, regardless of rating, and finishing around the rim. And he needs to get his 3pt shot back.

Obviously he needs to remain healthy too.

I also think because our starting unit was so good that it will inflate a guy like Nurkic's +/-. Book, KD, Beal, etc,, play more with bench players so it will hurt their overall net rating in that respect in relation to Nurkic's.

[bwgood77]

Book out there with Suni, with a smile bigger than after his 50pt games... much better choice than any Kardashian

Suni is a cutie.

[bwgood77]

Being an Aussie, I obviously have more investment in Team Aus in Olympic basketball and it was disappointing to see them get knocked out in OT by the Joker. Part of watching them is knowing that they aren't going to blow teams away and no game is a foregone conclusion but I was wondering how interested people are in watching team USA considering how dominant they are.

I'll be honest, aside from 1-2 highlights I haven't watched a single Team USA game because they are just so much more talented than any other team and it's essentially their gold medal to lose. I find it hard to be interested in that

I feel you there. I'm American but I lived in Aus as a kid and my dad is Canadian so those are the international teams I follow. I've never really cared for the US teams (in any sport, really) because of my background and without getting too political, other reasons to do with history. And yeah, they're just too good. Love what Booker has been able to do though.

Very sad to see Aus and Canada go out in flames like this. Was expecting a medal from one of them at least.

A few years ago I was curious where you lived (I think it was you) so I looked where your IP was coming from and it said Guam. Were you ever there?

[Frank Lee]

I too have no interest in the NBA/Olympic team. Would like to see them limit the number of appearances a pro could make. Clearly, it’s just a big party/vacation for them and a huge commercial for the NBA . Not too keen on the selection process either.

But then again, this dinosaur remembers the days of true amateur competition in the Olympics. It was much more entertaining/meaningful with the pre-dream team squads

[sunskerr]

Being an Aussie, I obviously have more investment in Team Aus in Olympic basketball and it was disappointing to see them get knocked out in OT by the Joker. Part of watching them is knowing that they aren't going to blow teams away and no game is a foregone conclusion but I was wondering how interested people are in watching team USA considering how dominant they are.

I'll be honest, aside from 1-2 highlights I haven't watched a single Team USA game because they are just so much more talented than any other team and it's essentially their gold medal to lose. I find it hard to be interested in that

I feel you there. I'm American but I lived in Aus as a kid and my dad is Canadian so those are the international teams I follow. I've never really cared for the US teams (in any sport, really) because of my background and without getting too political, other reasons to do with history. And yeah, they're just too good. Love what Booker has been able to do though.

Very sad to see Aus and Canada go out in flames like this. Was expecting a medal from one of them at least.

A few years ago I was curious where you lived (I think it was you) so I looked where your IP was coming from and it said Guam. Were you ever there?

Yep for like half my life

[ChuckS]

Biggest issue for me...
2nd worst plus minus for centers in the playoffs.
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/worst-plus-minus-for-centers-in-2024-playoffs

6th worst defensive rating for centers in the playoffs (Eubanks at No 1 is not at all surprising).
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/worst-defensive-rating-for-centers-in-2024-playoffs

But really you could cherry pick stats all day and find the worst and best things for every player I feel like.

6th worst FG% for centers in 2024.
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask?q=worst+fg%25+for+centers+in+2024

Worst turnover% for centers. Also, top 5 in turnovers for a center, and considering he has such a low USG% compared to the other top 5 centers on the list says something about his decision making.
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask?q=worst+turnover%25+for+centers+in+2024
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/most-turnovers-for-centers-in-2024

I try not to post often because I lack the depth and breadth of knowledge of the Suns evidenced by most on this board. But these two posts were fantastic in providing valid reasons for conflicting viewpoints. I'll also admit that I am strongly on the pro-Nurkic side of the argument. This is primarily because I've felt since watching that the team was much better with Jusuf on the floor -- but also considering the stats. I would just like to add minor context to the discussion.

The 82 game performance of a team that was eighth best in the league is being weighed against (IMO) a questionable (small) four game playoff sample of losses by an average of 15 PPG. In the larger sample size Nurkic had the substantial team best on court, off court, and net positive. Some months ago when I looked into the playoff numbers, for the four games, all our plus minus numbers were minus because of the 60 point losing differential. But among that negativity Jusuf had the lst, 2d, and twice third best in the team's four losses. Because of the overall team performance, I suggest the individual numbers could be skewed when compared to those of the more winning playoff teams.

Another thing herein that impressed me was:

Number sixteen highest paid center next year.

Nurkic's numbers were nominally down, but he still finished 2d to Gobert (I think) in his forte, rebounding. He was alone, if you don't count Eubanks, against $103 million dollars of centers, and on an infinitely smaller team. I was encouraged by the addition of Plumlee, but am yet uncertain Bol or the newbies can improve the PF depth. In any event I think that the Suns got their money's worth with Nurkic.

Great post. He is great at many things but I feel the main issues are defense, regardless of rating, and finishing around the rim. And he needs to get his 3pt shot back.

Obviously he needs to remain healthy too.

I also think because our starting unit was so good that it will inflate a guy like Nurkic's +/-. Book, KD, Beal, etc,, play more with bench players so it will hurt their overall net rating in that respect in relation to Nurkic's.

Thanks for the props, and great points. I particularly agree with the importance of knowing the team personnel and how it influences the results. Cream still rises to the top, so Book and KD are still second and third, and so one shouldn't rate plus minus status as much for talent level but as an indication of team need IMO (nor use it to compare players on different teams.) Jusuf''s highest off court rating affects the net rating, and, to me, more indicates a particularly major problem. That is the lack of a suitable bench replacement, and general lack of size. I do not fault the owner or GM for that. I think they did an excellent job in upgrading the talent level, including the wing and guard positions with Royce, Allen, and Gordon. They had young, unproven, size that proved unplayable, except for Bol who shows good promise, but was unready for prime time. This year they did a nice job, without a trade, in shoring up with Plumlee and some promising rookies. Hopefully they found their Dereck Lively. I think they had one of the worst possible playoff match ups. Sometimes Goliath wins.

[bwgood77]

I feel you there. I'm American but I lived in Aus as a kid and my dad is Canadian so those are the international teams I follow. I've never really cared for the US teams (in any sport, really) because of my background and without getting too political, other reasons to do with history. And yeah, they're just too good. Love what Booker has been able to do though.

Very sad to see Aus and Canada go out in flames like this. Was expecting a medal from one of them at least.

A few years ago I was curious where you lived (I think it was you) so I looked where your IP was coming from and it said Guam. Were you ever there?

Yep for like half my life

Seems like it would be a nice place to live. Isn't it always like 70-80 degrees there year round? That's like San Diego weather.