Suns Offseason Thread 4: Where's Terrence Williams?

[NavLDO]

LMAO.

Be mad at the GM who went double-down and stuck his neck out for a headcase who had red flags going back to his days at Kansas. The GM (with a straight face) called Dragic a bad seed while choosing to build around Markieff SIX MONTHS AGO. Some of us could see this coming from a mile away. Others (yourself and other buffoons on here like ) unconditionally back a dysfunctional owner and front office who have no one to blame but themselves for the situation this laughing stock of a franchise currently finds themselves in.

Yeah, pursing LMA as hard as we did was because we wanted to build around Markieff

Spin it anyway you want but you just sound like BurningHeart without the expletives.

Ah here we go. Here comes the "but we almost got Aldridge!" gullible ridiculousness. Next you'll applaud the front office because they got a meeting with LeBron's agent last summer.

Keep whistling past the graveyard.

And others like you will do nothing but accentuate any negative situation to TRY to prove your point. And explain exactly how the FO put themselves in this situation? Did they publicly humiliate the team/coach by throwing a tantrum at the bench? Did they get indicted on Felony Assault charges? No, that would be the Morri.

And in Dragic's situation, they got two pretty darn good 1st Rd picks for a less than half season rental. Now, the Heat have overpaid him with an average $17M per contract for the next 5 years, through his age 34 season, yet people like you think we overpaid for a 33 YO Center who had a more positive impact on his team than Dragic did, yet is earning $4M less. Tell me, what's harder to find, a player like Tyson, or a player like Dragic? I'll tell you--we got a 6-year younger 'Dragic' for an average $3M less for the next 5 years.

Why bother posting on this forum--you obviously have a deep-seated discontent for this team, and it's not likely to change much for the foreseeable future?

[bigfoot]

All's fair in Love and the Internet, '88

And we thought last yr was rough ? Eventually the meddling peddling antics of our GM will either yield some real fruit or he'll be sent packing, adding to the ever growing list of GM's under the Sarver regime.(BTW, ALL of them rookies).

His luster has worn off with me. You guys can spit-shine him up all day long and preach the patience tune (BTW, 3 yrs is entirely enough and that excuse will not be logically tolerated very soon) ... but I don't see much in the McDuh/Babbler past that indicates a good future.

Three off seasons of dismantling and patch working rosters, trying to amass assets to make a big trade for a superstar....Going through the motions of wooing the top FA dogs... Monkeying around with the personnel so much that nobody knows whether to lease or buy. Experimental line ups to mask the asset greed. Reactionary forced moves.. This is close to being a Gallagher ****, and we are front row with no pancho.

Its a changing league. These guys now go where THEY want to. They are close to calling all the shots, especially the sought afters.... And with the cap explosion on the horizon, practically every team will be able to accommodate their demands. This regime has almost an anti player attraction quality about it. Not everyone (players especially) see this MoBro thing from our butthurt eyes. It just adds to this undercurrent of chattel treatment by Sarver and crew. The list of negative exit interviews grows on. Its a shame when players are happier to leave than arrive.

And you guys got me for the season .... hahahahaa

But, but didn't both Knight and Chandler say they loved coming to Phx? Didn't Aldridge almost come here if it wasn't for his kid living in SA? Two major malcontents in the Morri makes a negative exit interview. Hogwash. Did we really want to pay Dragic $18M per year at 29 years old as part of our rebuild process? That to me would have been the proverbial treadmill. Instead we have 23 and 25 year olds who are much closer to all-star potential when compared to the same-age Dragic.

Look there are only 30 NBA teams with 8-9 players getting significant minutes per game. There are plenty of players that would love to play for the Suns. I'm so ready to see the Suns go mostly international so we don't have to watch all these useless one and done players with so called "potential". The NBA lottery is basically Megamillions/Powerball ... for a bunch of 18/19 year old players who can't shoot, dribble, or play defense.

[RunDogGun]

It was a joke if they thought that's either Diaw or Amare was going to escalate the fight. Amare was jumping like a five year old, and Diaw just was looking to see if Nash was alright, and I think he was calmly walking if I remember correctly.

Hmm, I remember it the opposite of you I guess. I remember Diaw sort of running toward the action and STAT calmly walking over.

There used to be better video of it, but Diaw does start out faster than I remembered, but since Amare was further down, he moves past the coaches, and jumps up and down, and then stops, puts his hands out as if to stop others from getting there. But in the only YouTube videos I found, Diaw stays out of bounds, with maybe barely stepping on the court. Diaw clearly goes towards Nash, not Horry. Amare although much more demonstrative, goes towards Nash as well. Neither to me seem to be going to escalate the situation, but since Amare had to go around coaches he is clearly out on the floor. And then lies about going to check into the game.

But if you have video of Amare calmly walking the whole time, I'd love to see it.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

The Knicks-Suns brawl is not the reason for that rule. The rule came in the year it was enforced against us, not long after the Malice in the Palace. Shame.

[Sunsdeuce]

And you guys got me for the season .... hahahahaa

But, but didn't both Knight and Chandler say they loved coming to Phx?

Sure I would too, if they overpaid me.

Didn't Aldridge almost come here if it wasn't for his kid living in SA?

Whats that saying, almost only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades

Two major malcontents in the Morri makes a negative exit interview. Hogwash. Did we really want to pay Dragic $18M per year at 29 years old as part of our rebuild process?

Umm yeah, worked out pretty well with Nash, plus there is no reason to believe he cant play another 7-8 years,

That to me would have been the proverbial treadmill.

Do you mean picking at 13 for 5 straight years isnt riding the treadmill

Instead we have 23 and 25 year olds who are much closer to all-star potential when compared to the same-age Dragic.

Really? Who?

There are plenty of players that would love to play for the Suns.

Really? Who?

I'm so ready to see the Suns go mostly international so we don't have to watch all these useless one and done players with so called "potential".

Because going internaional is working out for just about, oh, NO ONE. Dont try and bring up the Spurs. Everyone knows Spurs = Duncan.

The NBA lottery is basically Megamillions/Powerball ... for a bunch of 18/19 year old players who can't shoot, dribble, or play defense.

Oh I know, its sucks for teams to have Anthony Davis, Curry, Lebron, Durant, Howard, Rose, Griffin, wiggins, etc, etc, etc. They played the lottery and it didnt work out for them,right?

[Qwigglez]

My favorite Suns team was the 09-10 Suns. I was a huge fan of Marion so it sucks that he wasn't part of that squad, but that year we just had so much magic that wasn't anticipated by media. Everyone had a "I don't give a fu** attitude, let's just go out and ball and have fun". High-fives galore, it should have been our year, but we had a little bad luck in the playoffs that cost us huge. Every player was a likeable guy and everyone played their part. That epic dunk that Amare had, I was anticipating it as soon as Steph missed the three. A piece of Tolliver's soul was destroyed that night, I think he tried finding it years later when he signed with us.
Anyway, someone posted like a twelve minute long compilation video of that season with Eminem's Not Afraid song, highlighting all of our players but it was either deleted or put on private. It was a great video, that I saved on my very old laptop. I think whoever made the video actually posted it in the group. If someone can find that video that would be awesome!
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iqc1MNA3GZ0[/youtube]


Oh another favorite play of mine was from Dudley. Kobe tried to do some shake and bake on em, Dudley obviously wasn't having any of it and got a clean pick for a J-Rich dunk. My favorite part was Kobe pretending to be fouled afterwards, hoping the refs would bail him out. Just absolutely great.
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdWV7AQTqNE[/youtube]

[Frank Lee]

All's fair in Love and the Internet, '88

And we thought last yr was rough ? Eventually the meddling peddling antics of our GM will either yield some real fruit or he'll be sent packing, adding to the ever growing list of GM's under the Sarver regime.(BTW, ALL of them rookies).

His luster has worn off with me. You guys can spit-shine him up all day long and preach the patience tune (BTW, 3 yrs is entirely enough and that excuse will not be logically tolerated very soon) ... but I don't see much in the McDuh/Babbler past that indicates a good future.

Three off seasons of dismantling and patch working rosters, trying to amass assets to make a big trade for a superstar....Going through the motions of wooing the top FA dogs... Monkeying around with the personnel so much that nobody knows whether to lease or buy. Experimental line ups to mask the asset greed. Reactionary forced moves.. This is close to being a Gallagher ****, and we are front row with no pancho.

Its a changing league. These guys now go where THEY want to. They are close to calling all the shots, especially the sought afters.... And with the cap explosion on the horizon, practically every team will be able to accommodate their demands. This regime has almost an anti player attraction quality about it. Not everyone (players especially) see this MoBro thing from our butthurt eyes. It just adds to this undercurrent of chattel treatment by Sarver and crew. The list of negative exit interviews grows on. Its a shame when players are happier to leave than arrive.

And you guys got me for the season .... hahahahaa

But, but didn't both Knight and Chandler say they loved coming to Phx? Didn't Aldridge almost come here if it wasn't for his kid living in SA? Two major malcontents in the Morri makes a negative exit interview. Hogwash. Did we really want to pay Dragic $18M per year at 29 years old as part of our rebuild process? That to me would have been the proverbial treadmill. Instead we have 23 and 25 year olds who are much closer to all-star potential when compared to the same-age Dragic.

Look there are only 30 NBA teams with 8-9 players getting significant minutes per game. There are plenty of players that would love to play for the Suns. I'm so ready to see the Suns go mostly international so we don't have to watch all these useless one and done players with so called "potential". The NBA lottery is basically Megamillions/Powerball ... for a bunch of 18/19 year old players who can't shoot, dribble, or play defense.

Ugh.... 'almost' ? And sure, Knight and Chandler are happy to be here. I believe them. They both have security and a chunky paycheck. But yet, they are both role players. Chandler at least is proven... and whoops, I forgot... Knight was 'almost' an all star.

I'm just saying we have no direction, or it seems, we have to change directions every yr. Is there a team that has a higher turnover of players over the past 3 yrs, while having no 'core'? Not a competitive one. We have stumbled and tumbled with this rebuild.

But you build around guys like Dragic and TheGORTAT...Frye... and yes Scola....solid players, solid citizens. Btw... what exactly did we get for TheGORTAT? ...we peddled off a near double double machine, a solid starting center, because our GM is INFATUATED with draft picks and didn't want to pay theG what he'd eventually be worth. Yield ? ZERO.

Dragic is gone and we wont see the benefits of that wonder trade for yrs. Yup, I'm still shaking my head/fist at that. Funny how Riley was willing to pony up. He sees it, the way the league is going. You have to pay to be competitive. Miami is set for the next 5yrs at PG... and we have a $27 million experiment. I'll bank on Riley's bird in the hand judgement. He saw an opportunity and dangled the draft pick bait, for a player that was regarded as a top 4-5 PG before he was neutered by our GM. You guys forget how well the Dragon was balling the yr before??? McDuh gobbled up the picks as expected, then panicked and went all in on Knight, who was all 'out' of Milw.

Furthermore, why is Dragic is too old for a 5 yr deal...when at the end, he'll be 1 yr older than what Chandler and his 4 yr deal is now. Time will amplify that mistake IMO. (Not referring to Tyson)

Somewhere along the way, somebody has to be accountable for this mess we call the Suns. Blaming a couple punks and Dragic for this is a convenient way out. We have traded away and cast off a better team than what we have now. Oh, but we have a few extra draft picks ... whoopee. Eventually a 'work in progress' has to be completed. But you'll never finish building a house without a foundation. McDuh keeps pouring a new slab every yr. He has now a 3 off season track record. Tally it up. Its not as pretty as what most think, and all our success may rely on a gimmicky 2 guard offense that worked some in the 90s. Its a shaky bet to be riding.

The Front Office....c o l l e c t i v e l y .... gets full credit. And somewhere in that, one has to look at Sarver and note he has had 5 coaches and 5 gms over the past ten yrs, not to mention the multiple lesser FO personnel changes. We all would like to think the ship have been righted....but you need these
and a lot more optimism than what a few have here.

Never thought I'd miss JerryC...

[bwgood77]

It was the brawl that occurred that led the NBA to create the one game suspension for leaving the bench rule.

So in hindsight... we essentially screwed ourselves out of the 2007 NBA Title?

Oh the irony.

Yes, but it was only because Amare kept at it about checking into the game, even into his press conference. The following year in Boston, two players left the bench during an altercation, and nothing. Heck both Duncan and Bowen went six feet out on the court in our game, when Duncan thought Jones undercut Elson. Nothing happened to either of them either.

It was a joke if they thought that's either Diaw or Amare was going to escalate the fight. Amare was jumping like a five year old, and Diaw just was looking to see if Nash was alright, and I think he was calmly walking if I remember correctly.

I was at that game. It was a joke. And I specifically remember Kerr saying on the broadcast that "if the league follows the letter of the law, they will get suspended". I've always wondered if he didn't say that, if that would have made a difference in the suspensions happening, because they may have wanted to avoid having a national audience thinking they didn't follow "the letter of the law" but I am not sure Kerr was even right in what he said.

[Frank Lee]

and thus Darth Stern was born

[RunDogGun]

So in hindsight... we essentially screwed ourselves out of the 2007 NBA Title?

Oh the irony.

Yes, but it was only because Amare kept at it about checking into the game, even into his press conference. The following year in Boston, two players left the bench during an altercation, and nothing. Heck both Duncan and Bowen went six feet out on the court in our game, when Duncan thought Jones undercut Elson. Nothing happened to either of them either.

It was a joke if they thought that's either Diaw or Amare was going to escalate the fight. Amare was jumping like a five year old, and Diaw just was looking to see if Nash was alright, and I think he was calmly walking if I remember correctly.

I was at that game. It was a joke. And I specifically remember Kerr saying on the broadcast that "if the league follows the letter of the law, they will get suspended". I've always wondered if he didn't say that, if that would have made a difference in the suspensions happening, because they may have wanted to avoid having a national audience thinking they didn't follow "the letter of the law" but I am not sure Kerr was even right in what he said.

Didn't Kerr say after that that both Duncan and Bowen should be as well, if the letter of the law would be followed? I still think that if Amare didn't say he was going to check into the game, forcing reporters to ask both Raja and D'Antoni about Amare checking in, and having both of them laugh at it, the league might have let things go.I think Stern took it as a challenge, especially because Amare had called the whole Spurs team "dirty".

Oh well, I think intent should have been evaluated better, and I don't think either was going to escalate the fight. I'm not sure about Duncan, for he clearly thought Jones did something dirty, and walked a good six feet onto the court. Bowen, while doing many suspend able things in that series, just walked out to retrieve Duncan, but "letter of the law", right? And Stern didn't follow that rule over the summer when his refs were busted for gambling, or the following playoffs with Boston.

[letsgosuns]

The Knicks-Suns brawl is not the reason for that rule. The rule came in the year it was enforced against us, not long after the Malice in the Palace. Shame.

Hmm not sure where you are getting that. I even remember Barkley on TNT back in 2007 talking about it. He said to Kenny Smith and Ernie Johnson he was part of the brawl that made the league implement that rule. He said it multiple times. Also talked about how an injured Greg Anthony came onto the court and was not even in uniform.

I just found it on nba.com. Here it is. Was implemented in the 1994-95 season.

• Any player who leaves the bench during a fight automatically suspended for a minimum of one game and fined a maximum of $20,000; in addition to losing 1/82nd of his salary for each game, he is suspended.

http://www.nba.com/analysis/rules_history.html

Scroll down to 1994-95. It is the third rule change the league had for that season. One of many rule changes implemented during that season.

[rottenbanana36]

My favorite Suns team was the 09-10 Suns. I was a huge fan of Marion so it sucks that he wasn't part of that squad, but that year we just had so much magic that wasn't anticipated by media. Everyone had a "I don't give a fu** attitude, let's just go out and ball and have fun". High-fives galore, it should have been our year, but we had a little bad luck in the playoffs that cost us huge. Every player was a likeable guy and everyone played their part. That epic dunk that Amare had, I was anticipating it as soon as Steph missed the three. A piece of Tolliver's soul was destroyed that night, I think he tried finding it years later when he signed with us.
Anyway, someone posted like a twelve minute long compilation video of that season with Eminem's Not Afraid song, highlighting all of our players but it was either deleted or put on private. It was a great video, that I saved on my very old laptop. I think whoever made the video actually posted it in the group. If someone can find that video that would be awesome!
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iqc1MNA3GZ0[/youtube]


Oh another favorite play of mine was from Dudley. Kobe tried to do some shake and bake on em, Dudley obviously wasn't having any of it and got a clean pick for a J-Rich dunk. My favorite part was Kobe pretending to be fouled afterwards, hoping the refs would bail him out. Just absolutely great.
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdWV7AQTqNE[/youtube]

Man I was at that game when Stoudemire dunked on Tolliver and I went bananas in the stands. Even the warriors fans were just like damn....... lol Amazing memory

[Qwigglez]

Spoiler:

My favorite Suns team was the 09-10 Suns. I was a huge fan of Marion so it sucks that he wasn't part of that squad, but that year we just had so much magic that wasn't anticipated by media. Everyone had a "I don't give a fu** attitude, let's just go out and ball and have fun". High-fives galore, it should have been our year, but we had a little bad luck in the playoffs that cost us huge. Every player was a likeable guy and everyone played their part. That epic dunk that Amare had, I was anticipating it as soon as Steph missed the three. A piece of Tolliver's soul was destroyed that night, I think he tried finding it years later when he signed with us.
Anyway, someone posted like a twelve minute long compilation video of that season with Eminem's Not Afraid song, highlighting all of our players but it was either deleted or put on private. It was a great video, that I saved on my very old laptop. I think whoever made the video actually posted it in the group. If someone can find that video that would be awesome!
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iqc1MNA3GZ0[/youtube]


Oh another favorite play of mine was from Dudley. Kobe tried to do some shake and bake on em, Dudley obviously wasn't having any of it and got a clean pick for a J-Rich dunk. My favorite part was Kobe pretending to be fouled afterwards, hoping the refs would bail him out. Just absolutely great.
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdWV7AQTqNE[/youtube]

Man I was at that game when Stoudemire dunked on Tolliver and I went bananas in the stands. Even the warriors fans were just like damn....... lol Amazing memory

I went crazy after that dunk. I don't think I've ever got that hyped after a dunk. Haha.

[RunDogGun]

Spoiler:

My favorite Suns team was the 09-10 Suns. I was a huge fan of Marion so it sucks that he wasn't part of that squad, but that year we just had so much magic that wasn't anticipated by media. Everyone had a "I don't give a fu** attitude, let's just go out and ball and have fun". High-fives galore, it should have been our year, but we had a little bad luck in the playoffs that cost us huge. Every player was a likeable guy and everyone played their part. That epic dunk that Amare had, I was anticipating it as soon as Steph missed the three. A piece of Tolliver's soul was destroyed that night, I think he tried finding it years later when he signed with us.
Anyway, someone posted like a twelve minute long compilation video of that season with Eminem's Not Afraid song, highlighting all of our players but it was either deleted or put on private. It was a great video, that I saved on my very old laptop. I think whoever made the video actually posted it in the group. If someone can find that video that would be awesome!
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iqc1MNA3GZ0[/youtube]


Oh another favorite play of mine was from Dudley. Kobe tried to do some shake and bake on em, Dudley obviously wasn't having any of it and got a clean pick for a J-Rich dunk. My favorite part was Kobe pretending to be fouled afterwards, hoping the refs would bail him out. Just absolutely great.
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdWV7AQTqNE[/youtube]

Man I was at that game when Stoudemire dunked on Tolliver and I went bananas in the stands. Even the warriors fans were just like damn....... lol Amazing memory

I went crazy after that dunk. I don't think I've ever got that hyped after a dunk. Haha.

Mine was KJ over Olajuwon?

[Qwigglez]

You are old RDG! I barely started watching/liking basketball in like the third grade. This is the J-Kidd era. I vaguely remember watching maybe a couple games before that and knowing about Charles Barkey, lol.

[Damkac]

You don't keep a player on your roster who clearly doesn't want to be there and can cause animosity and further damage in the locker room.

He'd tune out during locker room team discussions, have negative body language, tune out during game time outs, he'd give minimal effort etc.

People not seeing the impact of this to the entire team has not played in a sports team before it seems.

Especially with young players and passive personalities and a nice guy coach...
Markieff Morris needs to be shipped out. It's absolutely for the betterment of the other 14 players and coaching staff trying everything every night to help the team move forward.


McD and Hornacek will MOVE him so it doesn't matter what the "keep Markieff unless a good value trade comes up" wagon wants here.

It's just like when the Pistons as SVG waived Josh Smith. Losing a malcontent player for less than he's worth is likely to boost the team's overall moral.

Like I said, I'm 100% sure and I've been right about the Morris twins and FO relationship for a while now, that McD and Hornacek are trying to find a deal for him even if it's 75 cents for the dollar.

Just as McD did with Dragic and Thomas, he will ship players out who don't want to play the team game wearing the suns jersey.

And good riddance.

I agree. I'm on the "get him out of town ASAP" wagon. I just want to start next season with a group of motivated players who wants to be on this team. I'm sick off all this drama of last season.

[batsmasher]

Guys it's inevitable we get PPat. Because Kentucky.

[Saberestar]

Guys it's inevitable we get PPat. Because Kentucky.

Terrence Jones says hello!

[RunDogGun]

You are old RDG! I barely started watching/liking basketball in like the third grade. This is the J-Kidd era. I vaguely remember watching maybe a couple games before that and knowing about Charles Barkey, lol.

Id much rather think of myself as an experienced fan.

[saintEscaton]

Kevin Pelton is probably just another ESPN hack masquerading as a reporter with no reputable inside source. But he believes that the Raps and Cs could offer us the best return packages. I also think he overvalues Queef just a tad. I mean he's proposing that Beantown offers us Sully, PJ3 James Young and a future first in exchange for him. . Sounds like an overpay for them but I'd take it in a heartbeat. The Raps offer might be underwhelming and centered around Patterson/Ross. He also said Portland would have to offer more than Vonleh because he would be a short-term downgrade for us. But this all sounds like throw sh*t at the wall until it sticks Trade Machine rosterbation.