2018 Free Agency and Trade Discussion continued

[TASTIC]

Out of our current PG's on the roster I would start Okobo. He is by far the best passer and has the best vision. I would imagine he will look a lot better with Booker and Ariza on the court spreading the floor than he did in summer league, which he looked solid anyways. Harrison is ideal to come off the bench and be a defensive stopper, I actually think he wouldnt look quite as good as he did in summer league with those guys on the floor as he is forced to become more of a distributor, not his strength.

I actually like him running the second unit - with Melton or Harrison starting.

Okobo looks like a scoring PG with the ability to pass, sort of like how Jameer Nelson and JJ Barea play?

Melton or Harrison can be defensive pluses without having to do too much on ball as Booker creates so much, so they fit a little better and allow Okobo to not have to defend all the elite PGs in the first units.

[AtheJ415]

We should not trade anything other than a protected 2nd for Bev or Teodosic. Force the Clipper's hand to cut one of them. I would hesitate to move Warren in there at all unless we already had some indication of needing that space next offseason or a specific plan for that money.

[Kerrsed]

The guys wanting Teodosic...Sell him to me.

I've watched a few vids and like the flash passes and the pass first mentality, but he's a sieve defensively and turns 32 in season. Not exactly the ideal fit next to Booker.

Gimme Pat Bev - who has shown he can play off-ball next to a ball dominant SG - while defending elite PGs.

I honestly think it's George Hill we're looking at, not sure why. $20m guaranteed this year and only $1m next I think I read somewhere???

PatBev is definitely the better fit and the guy i want, but according to everyone in Clipperland, he isnt the PG thats available. So with him off the list Milo becomes one of the best reasonable answers for us at PG that is actually available.

Think of him as Nash-lite. Phenomenal passer/playmaker who looks and loves to set up teammates. Ive seen him pass up very easy shots in the paint to give it up to another player for a dunk. Also just like Nash, he is a better shooter then he lets on.....because he prefers to get others involved. 38% 3PT shooter, 49% 2PT, and 85% FT is solid solid numbers for a rookie (No matter the age), specially for a foreign player in his first NBA season.

He's an expiring contract player that can help get the ball to our youngsters and make it easier on them. While his defense leaves a lot to be desired, i still think he would be a solid add for us for this one season.

[Mr Puddles]

We should not trade anything other than a protected 2nd for Bev or Teodosic. Force the Clipper's hand to cut one of them. I would hesitate to move Warren in there at all unless we already had some indication of needing that space next offseason or a specific plan for that money.

I agree, I hope we don't sell Warren for pennies on the dollar. Let's see what we have in Jackson / Bridges first. Ariza is only a one year signing and will likely spend a lot of time at the 4.

If Jackson shows that he is NBA starter material and Bridges shows he's valuable enough to have on the floor for 25-30 minutes a game backing up both the SG and SF positions - then we can always explore a trade before the deadline. Warren has his flaws, but at least he's shown that he's an NBA player - which is something our rook and sophomore still have to prove. Also at age 25 (birthday was yesterday) he fits our timeline.

Warren doesn't seem too entitled, so I don't think he'll go full-Bledsoe on us if we're playing him while exploring a trade.

[lilfishi22]

We should not trade anything other than a protected 2nd for Bev or Teodosic. Force the Clipper's hand to cut one of them. I would hesitate to move Warren in there at all unless we already had some indication of needing that space next offseason or a specific plan for that money.

+1

For a team that clearly needs to cut players, I wouldn't move real assets to help them do it.

[Jdiddy701]

Might be one of the few here but I rather start Okobo or Harrison than Teodosic. I also would rather see point Booker.

Patrick Beverly is another story... he would be awesome here.


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[lilfishi22]

I want a competent PG in that 1 spot.

The ideal 1 will be able to shoot, make plays and defend.

Pat Beverely can do all 3 things so he's my ideal choice
Milos can shoot and make plays but can't defend so he's my 2nd choice
Harrison and Melton can defend but haven't shown they can shoot or make plays. Likewise these two are my equal third choice
Okobo in theory can shoot and that's all so he's also my third choice

[TASTIC]

Might be one of the few here but I rather start Okobo or Harrison than Teodosic. I also would rather see point Booker.

Patrick Beverly is another story... he would be awesome here.


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I'm in the same camp - but do agree with Kerrsed we could use a 3pt shooting vet PG here, even if it's only to fill in from time to time and get the perimeter guys/Ayton some easy baskets. I just don't think you can start a defensively weak PG next to Booker...

[King4Day]

The Los Angeles Clippers have matched the offer sheet Tyrone Wallace signed with the New Orleans Pelicans.

The Clippers now have 17 contracts on their roster, which will require them to make multiple roster moves before the season stars.

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/251085/Clippers-Match-Tyrone-Wallaces-Offer-Sheet-With-Pelicans

I'd have to think we're going to make a heavy run at one of Beverly or Teodosic.

[BobbieL]

We should not trade anything other than a protected 2nd for Bev or Teodosic. Force the Clipper's hand to cut one of them. I would hesitate to move Warren in there at all unless we already had some indication of needing that space next offseason or a specific plan for that money.

+1

For a team that clearly needs to cut players, I wouldn't move real assets to help them do it.

There is a thing called a salary cap. And at this time, the Suns OVER it. Today, all the Suns have is a 4.4m exception. Beverly makes 5.0m, non-guaranteed and Teodosic makes 6.3m. The Suns could move Daniels for Beverly - but why would the Clippers do that - they can just waive Beverly. And knowing the market, the Suns can only get to 4.4m to pay Beverly. And remember - part of that 4.4m has to go to Melton since they are over the cap. For the Suns to get Teodosic, that means Daniels and say Shaq - but how does that help the Clippers as they want to lower the number of players, not increase.


I can see two trades with the Clippers. Beverly is the better player so they may want Warren but Boban or Wes Johnson is coming to Phoenix. The other trade is Milos and Boban for Chandler. Clippers move for one.


Now Teodosic gets waived, thats different, he is owed the money from the Clioppers so he might be willing to pay for part of the 4.4m.


I think the best way for the Suns to get either Beverly or Milos is not if they are waived - its a 2:1 trade.

[Fo-Real]

Well if no one shakes loose, Isiah Cannon is your vet.

[oddity]

Out of our current PG's on the roster I would start Okobo. He is by far the best passer and has the best vision. I would imagine he will look a lot better with Booker and Ariza on the court spreading the floor than he did in summer league, which he looked solid anyways. Harrison is ideal to come off the bench and be a defensive stopper, I actually think he wouldnt look quite as good as he did in summer league with those guys on the floor as he is forced to become more of a distributor, not his strength.

I actually like him running the second unit - with Melton or Harrison starting.

Okobo looks like a scoring PG with the ability to pass, sort of like how Jameer Nelson and JJ Barea play?

Melton or Harrison can be defensive pluses without having to do too much on ball as Booker creates so much, so they fit a little better and allow Okobo to not have to defend all the elite PGs in the first units.

I can kinda see the JJ Barea. But Okobo is ALSO 6'3 and a really good athlete. I am so high on this kid I should go to college in Colorado.

[bwgood77]

I want a competent PG in that 1 spot.

The ideal 1 will be able to shoot, make plays and defend.

Pat Beverely can do all 3 things so he's my ideal choice
Milos can shoot and make plays but can't defend so he's my 2nd choice
Harrison and Melton can defend but haven't shown they can shoot or make plays. Likewise these two are my equal third choice
Okobo in theory can shoot and that's all so he's also my third choice

Okobo really grew as a passer. Shot making is his greatest strength but he's a great finisher and has good court vision. You can see his passing here from 2-4 min mark and some more at around 7 and 8 minute. He also can be a pretty tough defender, though inconsistent, but he has great length and quickness to stick with defenders.

I think Okobo is our best chance of the three to end up running our offense to where it flourishes, and the other two will be solid defenders but are probably not ideal starting level point guards/primary ball handlers, even though Shaq is probably the most ready to play now and Melton might be as ready for minutes, but isn't nearly as skilled offensively as Okobo.

Watch on YouTube

[oddity]

Okobo may not be quite the shooter Trae is or quite the competitor Sexton is, but his skillset is so much more well rounded than either. Big/strong/fast enough to finish inside, even above the rim. Shot 38.5% from three over three years with extremely high volume (about half of his overall shots). He has an in-between game too, and shot 55% inside the arc this year. I always thought those PGs were the clear top 3 1s in the draft (not including Luka). Don't let the draft position fool you; this kid is lotto quality.

[BobbieL]

Okobo may not be quite the shooter Trae is or quite the competitor Sexton is, but his skillset is so much more well rounded than either. Big/strong/fast enough to finish inside, even above the rim. Shot 38.5% from three over three years with extremely high volume (about half of his overall shots). He has an in-between game too, and shot 55% inside the arc this year. I always thought those PGs were the clear top 3 in the draft (not including Luka). Don't let the draft position fool you; this kid is lotto quality.

Kevin Pelton gave the Bridges trade a D to the Suns because of trading away the 2021 unprotected pick. He gave the Knight/Anderson trade a C for the Suns. Gave the Sixers I believe an A and the Rockets a B. But one thing also, the Suns got 4 of his top 16 players and except for Ayton, lower than his ranking.

Ayton: got at 1, Pelton had at 2

Bridges: got at 10, Pelton had a t7

Okobo: got at 31 and I think Pelton had at 12 to 14

Melton: picked at 46 I believe and was in that 16 to 18 range

Now, the Suns can roll with Shaq Okobo and Melton at PG - would be intersting. But I still see a one year guy and hopoefully as the year progresses - see improvement from the younger guards.

[oddity]

Okobo may not be quite the shooter Trae is or quite the competitor Sexton is, but his skillset is so much more well rounded than either. Big/strong/fast enough to finish inside, even above the rim. Shot 38.5% from three over three years with extremely high volume (about half of his overall shots). He has an in-between game too, and shot 55% inside the arc this year. I always thought those PGs were the clear top 3 in the draft (not including Luka). Don't let the draft position fool you; this kid is lotto quality.

Kevin Pelton gave the Bridges trade a D to the Suns because of trading away the 2021 unprotected pick. He gave the Knight/Anderson trade a C for the Suns. Gave the Sixers I believe an A and the Rockets a B. But one thing also, the Suns got 4 of his top 16 players and except for Ayton, lower than his ranking.

Ayton: got at 1, Pelton had at 2

Bridges: got at 10, Pelton had a t7

Okobo: got at 31 and I think Pelton had at 12 to 14

Melton: picked at 46 I believe and was in that 16 to 18 range

Now, the Suns can roll with Shaq Okobo and Melton at PG - would be intersting. But I still see a one year guy and hopoefully as the year progresses - see improvement from the younger guards.

And Pelton is one of the few names in baskeball media that I actually respect. Didn't know he had Melton ranked so high too. Wow

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

The guys wanting Teodosic...Sell him to me.

I've watched a few vids and like the flash passes and the pass first mentality, but he's a sieve defensively and turns 32 in season. Not exactly the ideal fit next to Booker.

Gimme Pat Bev - who has shown he can play off-ball next to a ball dominant SG - while defending elite PGs.

I honestly think it's George Hill we're looking at, not sure why. $20m guaranteed this year and only $1m next I think I read somewhere???

PatBev is definitely the better fit and the guy i want, but according to everyone in Clipperland, he isnt the PG thats available. So with him off the list Milo becomes one of the best reasonable answers for us at PG that is actually available.

Think of him as Nash-lite. Phenomenal passer/playmaker who looks and loves to set up teammates. Ive seen him pass up very easy shots in the paint to give it up to another player for a dunk. Also just like Nash, he is a better shooter then he lets on.....because he prefers to get others involved. 38% 3PT shooter, 49% 2PT, and 85% FT is solid solid numbers for a rookie (No matter the age), specially for a foreign player in his first NBA season.

He's an expiring contract player that can help get the ball to our youngsters and make it easier on them. While his defense leaves a lot to be desired, i still think he would be a solid add for us for this one season.

I'm open to Teodosic if it doesn't cost us anything. He would give us something none of our current PGs do - shot creation and stable offensive production. But his advanced stats aren't very good due to his problems on defense. Compare to Dragic, whose advanced stats are very good and for whom I'd be willing to send out expirings and the MIL pick.

I'm less keen on adding Beverley because he really doesn't provide the passing/shot creation, and his defensive contributions may be matched or exceeded by Shaq (and perhaps Melton too). That and I anticipate the cost would be higher.

[JDLAW]

Who the hell cares what Kevin Pelton thinks. Why would you even seek his validation. The Suns' trade for Bridges was likely a good one and the Suns were in a position where they could not wait on 2021 draft choices. Maybe Miami bottoms out maybe not. After last year, it was clear that they needed players not draft choices 3 years down the road. The 76ers made a good trade, but they did not seem to get better this offseason, some would say they took a step back. As for the Houston trade, I was not wild about it nor was I depressed about it. The Suns needed some front court shooting to keep defensive players honest. Houston saved some $$ and we got. shooter and a prospect. We gave up a physically gifted athlete with questionable fit in Chriss and a questionable point guard in Knight. It appears to be a good gamble for both teams. If Pelton cannot understand this ...

As for the point guard situation, there aren't any available out there at this point that I would give any of our players for. I would NOT start Harrison, Okobo, Melton or Cannan. I would start Jackson and Booker in the backcourt and tell Igor to design a motion offense to minimize the need for a traditional point guard. Jackson and Booker handle the ball well enough to get it across half court and run a fast break. Take a look at Golden State and how little they dribble in half court, look at Jackson's triangle offense. Not saying you use one of these, but you certainly can adopt principals for a good motion offense and you have a great scorer in Booker who can break it off if need be ala Kobe and MJ.

[stoo]

i was hesitant about trading chandler, because we don't have too many real centers
But if we can get Milos and Boban for Chandler, I would go for it.... Milos IS bad on defense, unfortunately... but still 6.5 height
But Boban is the most underutilized guy in the league, and probably the most underrated.... he can literally score at will, and his defense is not that bad.... He is so big, that opposing players are pretty much afraid to go to the basket... I would like if someone here can dig advanced stats about him

now it would really depend on if Igor would like to do that: playing no-defense milos (so only with certain players on the court) and slow center... that would effect motion schemes, though i still think not that much... Boban can pass and has very soft hands

Watch on YouTube

[oddity]

Who the hell cares what Kevin Pelton thinks. Why would you even seek his validation. The Suns' trade for Bridges was likely a good one and the Suns were in a position where they could not wait on 2021 draft choices. Maybe Miami bottoms out maybe not. After last year, it was clear that they needed players not draft choices 3 years down the road. The 76ers made a good trade, but they did not seem to get better this offseason, some would say they took a step back. As for the Houston trade, I was not wild about it nor was I depressed about it. The Suns needed some front court shooting to keep defensive players honest. Houston saved some $$ and we got. shooter and a prospect. We gave up a physically gifted athlete with questionable fit in Chriss and a questionable point guard in Knight. It appears to be a good gamble for both teams. If Pelton cannot understand this ...

As for the point guard situation, there aren't any available out there at this point that I would give any of our players for. I would NOT start Harrison, Okobo, Melton or Cannan. I would start Jackson and Booker in the backcourt and tell Igor to design a motion offense to minimize the need for a traditional point guard. Jackson and Booker handle the ball well enough to get it across half court and run a fast break. Take a look at Golden State and how little they dribble in half court, look at Jackson's triangle offense. Not saying you use one of these, but you certainly can adopt principals for a good motion offense and you have a great scorer in Booker who can break it off if need be ala Kobe and MJ.

The bottom line will always be **** everyone else's opinion if my personal observations are different, but there are some guys that are far far more credible than others. I value understanding why other people feel the way they do. The process Pelton talks about in evaluating players seems more comprehensive than, say, Chad Ford's, and even when I disagree I feel like theres more substance to the debate then "well, this guy seems pretty hyped".