Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 3

[AtheJ415]

I want a stretch 5, not a one dimensional guy like DeAndre. It would be different if he had a post game and was a legit 22/12 guy, but he's not.

Truthfully (and I'm prepared for the pitchforks) I'd rather sign Jah to a two year deal and keep Tyson around to mentor him.

I'm all down to start accelerating this rebuild by adding legit stars on fat deals, but not borderline guys like Jordan or injured plagued guys like Blake.

This isn't a 'pitchfork', per se, but why would you want to keep Chandler for 'mentoring'?? Because he did such a great job with Len?? Chandler is about Chandler; that's it. He's not mentoring anyone.

I understand your trepidation about DeAndre, but he IS a legit top 12 starter in the league, and not 'borderline' at all, IMO. Anyone who has led the league 5 years straight in TS% and FG% is not 'borderline'. I'd rather trade for DeAndre, and if we don't get a chance to get Ayton or Bamba (who will both be around 20YO at the Draft), bring in a young guy like Wendall Carter (DOB - 4/16/99...so he'll just have turned 19 at the Draft), who "...has range out to the three-point line and can shoot off the dribble ... Improved as a free throw shooter …Can put the ball on the floor and attack in a straight line."

Let DeAndre have a chance to 'mentor', because honestly, I do not believe Chandler has mentored jack$h!t since being here, with the exception of maybe the payroll lady.

Deandre led the league in FG% because he only attempts dunks, and was set up to succeed in that manner by playing with the best PG in basketball in terms of setting up others for those 5 years. He is a borderline offensive player who cannot hit a shot outside of 3 feet, despite being dominant inside of those 3 feet. He is not a top 12 player. Also, how would Deandre, who is the exact opposite player of everything you described in the young guy you want to pair him with, going to mentor said young guy when his game is a complete 180 of that?

[bwgood77]

I would do that in a heartbeat! I would have then!

I wish Jayson Tatum would have fallen to us! Booker and Tatum would have been a better future than him and JJ.

What all do you guys think about JJ?

I think it's too early to judge where he will end up. As for what I've seen so far, I'd like to see him a little more in control on offense, and him to improve his shot. I love his energy and defensive intensity though.

On draft night I would have been just as happy as Isaac.

In a league where shooting is paramount, Ball, Jackson, and Fox were high risk. Fultz and Tatum were the sure bets.

I still think Fox, Jackson, and Ball (in that order) have all-star potential, but all 3 need to seriously fix their shot.

With TJ's 3 very suspect, and with none of our centers being able to shoot, adding Tatum would have been a better fit. I totally agree that a Booker/Tatum 2/3 or 2/4 combo (with TJ at the 3) would have been a better fit in today's NBA.

Way too early to tell for sure, and I love Jackson's motor and intensity. But he's looked pretty bad so far in all honestly. Inconsistent shot, turnover machine, and invisible on the court most times.

Well yeah, it's easier in hindsight to say Tatum would have been a great fit. I was just looking at the difference between ORTG, DRTG and the net rating of the two players, as well as the BPM and it's ugly. http://bkref.com/tiny/dHkLd

But obviously early.

[sunsbum]

I wanted Tatum very badly but we didnt have the chance to draft him. That being said I'm happy with Jackson and I believe he has the work ethic and talent to become a pretty good player at some point.

[bhawk]

I wanted Tatum very badly but we didnt have the chance to draft him. That being said I'm happy with Jackson and I believe he has the work ethic and talent to become a pretty good player at some point.

20 games in, it feels like Issac or DSJ would have been better picks at 4. I'm a Suns fan... sooo... Go Josh! Fix that shot and those free throws... goodness.

[Saberestar]

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[Son of Ra]

I think the comparison is moot for now. Tatum wouldn't be looking this good had we drafted him. He is benefitting a ton from having two all-stars creating tons of room and a proper system. I'm not saying he's not the better player but I bet JJ would look a lot better was he playing on the Celtics.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

I wanted Tatum very badly but we didnt have the chance to draft him. That being said I'm happy with Jackson and I believe he has the work ethic and talent to become a pretty good player at some point.

I'm still perfectly happy with Jackson. I can't deny that I'm jealous of Boston's success with Tatum and of Utah's success with Mitchell. But I'm optimistic about Devin, JJ and TJ, and I expect Dragan to take a big leap forward at some point. I also think Marquese has a lot of potential and his development is also likely to come late. He makes mistakes on defense, but he also puts up great block numbers and his rebounding is improving. It's his offense that is a trainwreck ATM.

Look, players develop on different schedules and McD has consistently tried to draft the guys he thought would end up the best player. You never nail it 100%, but I don't think there's reason to be particularly pessimistic. We need to stay patient.

... That said, I wanted to add Shaun Livingston this past summer, which turned out not to be a real possibility, as the Warriors gave him some real hot cash. I think some floor management and some length on the perimeter could be of real benefit to this squad. I think Ulis being in the starting lineup hurts us; I think the lack of a scorer at the C spot hurts us; I think the lack of experience throughout the roster degrades trust and hurts ball movement.

I would like McD to get some help for this roster, but at the same time, no one but Booker and Warren has anyone but themselves to blame for the suckage of their squad. If Chandler was THAT solid, we'd win 30+ games, but he's over the hill. If either of our young PFs or JJ were ready, our starting lineup wouldn't be revolving every night. If Ulis was THAT good, it wouldn't matter that he can't challenge the opposing PG's shot. If DJJ could play, he'd be in Phoenix. That is all to say that maybe there really isn't any pressure on the FO to improve things now.

I think we may just have to stay the course this season, maybe rotate DJJ in and bring our center spot down to one (for now) and (maybe) two when Sauce returns. Davon Reed could really help when he returns.

As for this summer, we're probably adding Brandon Knight and Sauce and losing Len and Monroe. We'll have cap space. We should try for BPA, starting with Lebron, offering him the keys to a very expensive car (all these young fellas plus what I expect will be two 2018 lotto picks). Then you move down the list: Demarcus? Bradley? Paul? ... after thinking about it a while, I would keep Deandre off this list. Because once your center isn't great, a big man's big contract can become an albatross. And maybe, if there isn't a target that makes sense at the pricetag, we wait it out, maybe make a trade.

I guess I'm that dog in Kerrsed's burning house saying this is fine. Well, I think it is. **sips coffee**

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

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I have no problem with the continued uncertainty in our starting lineup. Take those minutes, kids!!!

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

I think it's too early to judge where he will end up. As for what I've seen so far, I'd like to see him a little more in control on offense, and him to improve his shot. I love his energy and defensive intensity though.

On draft night I would have been just as happy as Isaac.

In a league where shooting is paramount, Ball, Jackson, and Fox were high risk. Fultz and Tatum were the sure bets.

I still think Fox, Jackson, and Ball (in that order) have all-star potential, but all 3 need to seriously fix their shot.

With TJ's 3 very suspect, and with none of our centers being able to shoot, adding Tatum would have been a better fit. I totally agree that a Booker/Tatum 2/3 or 2/4 combo (with TJ at the 3) would have been a better fit in today's NBA.

Way too early to tell for sure, and I love Jackson's motor and intensity. But he's looked pretty bad so far in all honestly. Inconsistent shot, turnover machine, and invisible on the court most times.

Well yeah, it's easier in hindsight to say Tatum would have been a great fit. I was just looking at the difference between ORTG, DRTG and the net rating of the two players, as well as the BPM and it's ugly. http://bkref.com/tiny/dHkLd

But obviously early.

Is it weird that this wasn't as bad as I expected, yet I am (suddenly) the JJ optimist around here?

[TOO]

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I have no problem with the continued uncertainty in our starting lineup. Take those minutes, kids!!!

None of them have played well enough to start.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

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I have no problem with the continued uncertainty in our starting lineup. Take those minutes, kids!!!

None of them have played well enough to start.

Yes -- but just so you understand, I was saying the same thing, just looking forward rather than back.

[bwgood77]

In a league where shooting is paramount, Ball, Jackson, and Fox were high risk. Fultz and Tatum were the sure bets.

I still think Fox, Jackson, and Ball (in that order) have all-star potential, but all 3 need to seriously fix their shot.

With TJ's 3 very suspect, and with none of our centers being able to shoot, adding Tatum would have been a better fit. I totally agree that a Booker/Tatum 2/3 or 2/4 combo (with TJ at the 3) would have been a better fit in today's NBA.

Way too early to tell for sure, and I love Jackson's motor and intensity. But he's looked pretty bad so far in all honestly. Inconsistent shot, turnover machine, and invisible on the court most times.

Well yeah, it's easier in hindsight to say Tatum would have been a great fit. I was just looking at the difference between ORTG, DRTG and the net rating of the two players, as well as the BPM and it's ugly. http://bkref.com/tiny/dHkLd

But obviously early.

Is it weird that this wasn't as bad as I expected, yet I am (suddenly) the JJ optimist around here?

You expected worse than a net rating difference of 44? (Tatum +18, Jackson -26). Or difference of BPM of 9.2? 3.1 vs -6.1. Then you have PER and TS%

I guess the worst part is that Tatum has been better defensively but that probably has a lot to do with Stevens and Boston's defensive scheme. As a team they have by far the best team def rating.

I'm actually a JJ optimist, but if you would have told me their net rating and BPM would have differed by that much before the season I would have been shocked.

[RaisingArizona]

I wanted Tatum very badly but we didnt have the chance to draft him. That being said I'm happy with Jackson and I believe he has the work ethic and talent to become a pretty good player at some point.

20 games in, it feels like Issac or DSJ would have been better picks at 4. I'm a Suns fan... sooo... Go Josh! Fix that shot and those free throws... goodness.

Or Fox. Yep, I still think we made the wrong selection but I realize it's really early.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

Well yeah, it's easier in hindsight to say Tatum would have been a great fit. I was just looking at the difference between ORTG, DRTG and the net rating of the two players, as well as the BPM and it's ugly. http://bkref.com/tiny/dHkLd

But obviously early.

Is it weird that this wasn't as bad as I expected, yet I am (suddenly) the JJ optimist around here?

You expected worse than a net rating difference of 44? (Tatum +18, Jackson -26). Or difference of BPM of 9.2? 3.1 vs -6.1. Then you have PER and TS%

I guess the worst part is that Tatum has been better defensively but that probably has a lot to do with Stevens and Boston's defensive scheme. As a team they have by far the best team def rating.

I'm actually a JJ optimist, but if you would have told me their net rating and BPM would have differed by that much before the season I would have been shocked.

Yeah there are some variables that really throw a lot of things out of whack. The difference in FGAs per 36, despite the difference in FG%, indicates that JJ is being pushed to fill too big a hole in our offense. That increases his turnovers and decreases his efficiency. Our weakness as a team defensively and Boston's strength is another variable I think that has a huge effect on the advanced metrics. I'm not denying Tatum's strong play; I just think that the statistical gap should be expected to narrow.

I remember early on in Booker's rookie year, his 3FG% was out of this statistical world. That dropped off as he attracted more attention, had to shoot more on the move, generally expended more energy on both ends, diversified his game...

It's just so early, my dudes. To chill is to reason, still it seems to me.

[bwgood77]

Is it weird that this wasn't as bad as I expected, yet I am (suddenly) the JJ optimist around here?

You expected worse than a net rating difference of 44? (Tatum +18, Jackson -26). Or difference of BPM of 9.2? 3.1 vs -6.1. Then you have PER and TS%

I guess the worst part is that Tatum has been better defensively but that probably has a lot to do with Stevens and Boston's defensive scheme. As a team they have by far the best team def rating.

I'm actually a JJ optimist, but if you would have told me their net rating and BPM would have differed by that much before the season I would have been shocked.

Yeah there are some variables that really throw a lot of things out of whack. The difference in FGAs per 36, despite the difference in FG%, indicates that JJ is being pushed to fill too big a hole in our offense. That increases his turnovers and decreases his efficiency. Our weakness as a team defensively and Boston's strength is another variable I think that has a huge effect on the advanced metrics. I'm not denying Tatum's strong play; I just think that the statistical gap should be expected to narrow.

I remember early on in Booker's rookie year, his 3FG% was out of this statistical world. That dropped off as he attracted more attention, had to shoot more on the move, generally expended more energy on both ends, diversified his game...

It's just so early, my dudes. To chill is to reason, still it seems to me.

Oh yeah, of course Tatum will drop. He won't continue to shoot 48.6% from 3.

[Calvin Klein]

I haven't read this thread as I haven't been around much. I'm sure you've discussed it already but do we have any chance of getting Fizdale?

[sunsbum]

I'm surprised so many people are down on Bender already. What is he at now? 50 games? At the very least he's already a 3 and D guy that can defend 1-5. How many of those are there in the NBA? I bet we could count them on 1 hand.

[AtheJ415]

Jackson's advanced stats will not look good right now because he is a defender on a bad defensive team, so his individual numbers like DBPM will not show as well because people will score when he's on the floor anyways.

He has to fix his shot and the turnovers, but that is expected when you are adjusting to the new speed of the game, so the turnovers I am very confident get better. I am not as confident about his shooting. He has to be a 75% FT shooter and a 33% 3 point shooter. If he does that his defense and playmaking skills will make him an all star. If he doesn't he is arguably not playable and at best MKG. So yeah, his future rides on his jumper, but that improvement can happen suddenly. Aaron Gordon couldn't shoot 3s until this year. Buddy Hield was not a good shooter until his 4th or 5th year of college.

[Saberestar]

"I let myself get to a place where I shouldn’t have been,” said Chriss, who declined to say how much weight he gained. “I think it happens to a lot of people. For me it was a learning experience.”

Chriss said he felt invincible coming out of college, thinking he could eat whatever he wanted and stay in basketball shape.

“You’re on a limited budget in college but all of a sudden I had nothing but free time and money,” he said. “I needed to learn how to manage. I needed to grow up in that aspect of my life so I’m grateful that it happened sooner rather than later.”

Chriss said he didn’t realize he had gained weight until his best friend and his mother told him, “You’re getting big.” He said he looked in the mirror and realized they were right. Consequently, he changed his diet, eliminating fast foods that used to be a staple and limiting his intake of fried food.

“A lot of bad food,” he said. “I’m just being conscious now of what I’m eating. I’m not really looking at calories but looking at, ‘Is this a good meal for an athlete?’”

Chriss said he’s just now back in the shape he was as a rookie.
“I want to be past that,” he said. “I want to be able to play 35 minutes. And effective minutes, not just be on the floor.”

Chriss will have to give the Suns a more consistent effort if he wants those kinds of minutes. He lost his starting job earlier this season in part because interim coach Jay Triano believed Chriss’ energy wasn’t what it needed to be.

“I took some plays for granted,” Chriss said. “Obviously not starting is a kick in the ass. I think I needed it.”

https://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/nba/suns/2017/12/01/phoenix-suns-marquese-chriss-jay-triano-boston-celtics-kyrie-irving/914263001/

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

"I let myself get to a place where I shouldn’t have been,” said Chriss, who declined to say how much weight he gained. “I think it happens to a lot of people. For me it was a learning experience.”

Chriss said he felt invincible coming out of college, thinking he could eat whatever he wanted and stay in basketball shape.

“You’re on a limited budget in college but all of a sudden I had nothing but free time and money,” he said. “I needed to learn how to manage. I needed to grow up in that aspect of my life so I’m grateful that it happened sooner rather than later.”

Chriss said he didn’t realize he had gained weight until his best friend and his mother told him, “You’re getting big.” He said he looked in the mirror and realized they were right. Consequently, he changed his diet, eliminating fast foods that used to be a staple and limiting his intake of fried food.

“A lot of bad food,” he said. “I’m just being conscious now of what I’m eating. I’m not really looking at calories but looking at, ‘Is this a good meal for an athlete?’”

Chriss said he’s just now back in the shape he was as a rookie.
“I want to be past that,” he said. “I want to be able to play 35 minutes. And effective minutes, not just be on the floor.”

Chriss will have to give the Suns a more consistent effort if he wants those kinds of minutes. He lost his starting job earlier this season in part because interim coach Jay Triano believed Chriss’ energy wasn’t what it needed to be.

“I took some plays for granted,” Chriss said. “Obviously not starting is a kick in the ass. I think I needed it.”

https://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/nba/suns/2017/12/01/phoenix-suns-marquese-chriss-jay-triano-boston-celtics-kyrie-irving/914263001/

An encouraging article, frankly, as it gives us a solid reason to consider his lackluster effort so far this season a possible anomaly. I also really liked Triano's quotes regarding the starting lineup. There's nothing preachy about it, it's just real, fair and simple.