ImageImageImage

2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation 3 - Post Free Agency Discussion

Moderators: bwgood77, lilfishi22, Qwigglez

With the Deandre trade, which is closer to your take?

Kept him
10
22%
Wait and see
9
20%
Clean cut now for a fresh start to the season
27
59%
 
Total votes: 46

TeamTragic
General Manager
Posts: 9,000
And1: 7,028
Joined: Feb 18, 2015
 

Re: 2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation 3 - Post Free Agency Discussion 

Post#1921 » by TeamTragic » Mon Oct 2, 2023 9:13 pm

Golanator wrote:
Slim Charless wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:I'm surprised Simmons was so negative on it. Only really need to listen to the first 4 minutes or so.



Simmons is 100% right about everything he says about this trade. It will be a slow burn, but everyone here will eventually be on my vantage point about Mr. Nurkic.

Nurk isn't on Ayton's level and we should've just held out and seen if Vogel could've gotten more out of him. I think this crappy trade for Nurk would've still been available at the trade deadline.

If PDX/MIL/BOS demanded this go through now then cool, give us Timelord or Brogdon.


Jock Landale was more impactful than Ayton in the playoffs.

There were times last season Bismack Biyombo was better than Ayton.

Javale McGee 1000% did more with his minutes than DA in 2021/22.

I haven't lost 2 seconds of sleep since the trade because even if Nurkic sucks, at least we don't have a $32 million albatross on the roster. And I'm sure as the leader of the DA fanclub you have seen how happy he is in Portland. Good for him. Hope he enjoys the extra touches and piles of L's headed his way.


Jock outplayed DA last season in the playoffs. Not only that but DA was essentially unplayable and clearly was unprepared. That reason alone is enough for a team to trade DA. The rest is just reaffirming what we already knew.

DA wants to play on a non-playoff team and thinks he will be that guy. As pointed out be a few people already Scoot will be on his ass and DA better get in line otherwise expect him to be traded again at the deadline.
flagstaff
Sophomore
Posts: 123
And1: 54
Joined: Aug 03, 2022
     

Re: 2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation 3 - Post Free Agency Discussion 

Post#1922 » by flagstaff » Mon Oct 2, 2023 9:32 pm

Golanator wrote:
Slim Charless wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:I'm surprised Simmons was so negative on it. Only really need to listen to the first 4 minutes or so.



Simmons is 100% right about everything he says about this trade. It will be a slow burn, but everyone here will eventually be on my vantage point about Mr. Nurkic.

Nurk isn't on Ayton's level and we should've just held out and seen if Vogel could've gotten more out of him. I think this crappy trade for Nurk would've still been available at the trade deadline.

If PDX/MIL/BOS demanded this go through now then cool, give us Timelord or Brogdon.


Jock Landale was more impactful than Ayton in the playoffs.

There were times last season Bismack Biyombo was better than Ayton.

Javale McGee 1000% did more with his minutes than DA in 2021/22.

I haven't lost 2 seconds of sleep since the trade because even if Nurkic sucks, at least we don't have a $32 million albatross on the roster. And I'm sure as the leader of the DA fanclub you have seen how happy he is in Portland. Good for him. Hope he enjoys the extra touches and piles of L's headed his way.

I wish Jock was still on the team. Just not on that salary....
User avatar
sunsbum
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,539
And1: 5,396
Joined: May 16, 2007
Location: Portland
     

Re: 2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation 3 - Post Free Agency Discussion 

Post#1923 » by sunsbum » Mon Oct 2, 2023 9:40 pm



Just now watching this, interesting at the 4ish min mark someone asked how he found out, he said Matt took him up and told him. DA went on to say "I was thankful he accommodated my wishes". So looks like DA asked out privately as well.
"Mannnnn I’m like the guy that pissed this whole board off saying literally all year no Mikal, no Mikal in the KD trade."
sunsbg
Head Coach
Posts: 6,372
And1: 5,447
Joined: Feb 29, 2016

Re: 2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation 3 - Post Free Agency Discussion 

Post#1924 » by sunsbg » Mon Oct 2, 2023 9:50 pm

I watched a bit of DA's interview and still think he could've been key to a championship if he wanted to stay, but it's time someone shows him Shaq's stats and footage. This DominAyton talk is really lame.
TeamTragic
General Manager
Posts: 9,000
And1: 7,028
Joined: Feb 18, 2015
 

Re: 2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation 3 - Post Free Agency Discussion 

Post#1925 » by TeamTragic » Mon Oct 2, 2023 9:55 pm

sunsbum wrote:

Just now watching this, interesting at the 4ish min mark someone asked how he found out, he said Matt took him up and told him. DA went on to say "I was thankful he accommodated my wishes". So looks like DA asked out privately as well.


This will go down as the dumbest trade request in NBA history. That clown looked at our current lineup with brand new ownership and a new coach and decided that he wants to go to a rebuilding team where centers go to die.

Mindblowing. DA needs multiple therapists and someone that can put him on the right path.
User avatar
MrMiyagi
Suns Forum Eternal Optimist
Posts: 8,117
And1: 7,664
Joined: Jan 10, 2010
   

Re: 2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation 3 - Post Free Agency Discussion 

Post#1926 » by MrMiyagi » Mon Oct 2, 2023 9:59 pm

TeamTragic wrote:
sunsbum wrote:

Just now watching this, interesting at the 4ish min mark someone asked how he found out, he said Matt took him up and told him. DA went on to say "I was thankful he accommodated my wishes". So looks like DA asked out privately as well.


This will go down as the dumbest trade request in NBA history. That clown looked at our current lineup with brand new ownership and a new coach and decided that he wants to go to a rebuilding team where centers go to die.

Mindblowing. DA needs multiple therapists and someone that can put him on the right path.
I think Crowder takes that crown.
SHAZAM!

Suns traded Mikal Bridges, Cam Johnson, Jae Crowder and 4 1st round picks and a swap so some Vegas Bookies would like us.
User avatar
SlovenianDragon
Head Coach
Posts: 7,171
And1: 11,320
Joined: Aug 01, 2014
         

Re: 2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation 3 - Post Free Agency Discussion 

Post#1927 » by SlovenianDragon » Mon Oct 2, 2023 10:11 pm



Good interview with Nurk.

Its kinda funny thinking that Nurk is super excited to be on a winning team and do what he needs to win... And Ayton is excited to go to a rebuilding team and be "dominayton"...lol

At least they are both happy :dontknow:
Image
User avatar
lilfishi22
Forum Mod - Suns
Forum Mod - Suns
Posts: 36,245
And1: 24,603
Joined: Oct 16, 2007
Location: Australia

Re: 2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation 3 - Post Free Agency Discussion 

Post#1928 » by lilfishi22 » Mon Oct 2, 2023 10:27 pm

sunsbum wrote:

Just now watching this, interesting at the 4ish min mark someone asked how he found out, he said Matt took him up and told him. DA went on to say "I was thankful he accommodated my wishes". So looks like DA asked out privately as well.

Good pick up and probably not at all surprising. I'm just glad it was done now and didn't turn into a Crowder situation.
User avatar
lilfishi22
Forum Mod - Suns
Forum Mod - Suns
Posts: 36,245
And1: 24,603
Joined: Oct 16, 2007
Location: Australia

Re: 2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation 3 - Post Free Agency Discussion 

Post#1929 » by lilfishi22 » Mon Oct 2, 2023 10:57 pm

TeamTragic wrote:
sunsbum wrote:

Just now watching this, interesting at the 4ish min mark someone asked how he found out, he said Matt took him up and told him. DA went on to say "I was thankful he accommodated my wishes". So looks like DA asked out privately as well.


This will go down as the dumbest trade request in NBA history. That clown looked at our current lineup with brand new ownership and a new coach and decided that he wants to go to a rebuilding team where centers go to die.

Mindblowing. DA needs multiple therapists and someone that can put him on the right path.

It worked out for all sides. He got to go to a team where he'll likely have more freedom to do what he wants out on the court, likely not have elite players like Book/KD/CP3 (at the time) stare him down for not doing what he should be doing and just being in a much lower pressure environment. I've said for a while now that I thought the best place for him and his character is on a team where he can be featured as the #1 or #2 guy, it's in a small-medium NBA city without the national spotlights and relatively low stakes. I thought Detroit, Indiania Orlando would've been a good landing spot for him.

You could say he's taking the Jeremi Grant route of going from a contender to a smaller market where he could be featured (coincidently, Detroit) and give himself an opportunity to be the man. I think Grant did a good job in Detroit, he was their go-to guy on a low stakes rebuilding team, generally got no pressure from the press/media and occasionally he'd get a mention or a highlight reel on the ESPN's when he has the occasional 30+, 40+ pt games. He'll now be playing with Ayton, ironically.

Portland is rebuilding but they already have some pieces in place with Scoot, Grant and Sharpe so he won't be the #1 guy but there's a chance he's no worse than #3 and potentially could be #2 depending on how well Scoot acclimates and if they move Grant
User avatar
King4Day
RealGM
Posts: 13,617
And1: 9,823
Joined: Dec 11, 2010
Location: Pandora
         

Re: 2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation 3 - Post Free Agency Discussion 

Post#1930 » by King4Day » Tue Oct 3, 2023 12:31 am

sunsbum wrote:

Just now watching this, interesting at the 4ish min mark someone asked how he found out, he said Matt took him up and told him. DA went on to say "I was thankful he accommodated my wishes". So looks like DA asked out privately as well.


That negates those who wanted to wait until the deadline to trade him. I know nobody is happy about this but I PROMISE you, there was never going to be a better deal than this. Maybe Nurk and Little for DA in another form could happen but now you're dealing with building more chemistry during the year. No time to mess around. Sucks we lost him for peanuts but we move on and build chemistry from the get-go.
"Sometimes, the dragon wins" #RallyTheValley
User avatar
King4Day
RealGM
Posts: 13,617
And1: 9,823
Joined: Dec 11, 2010
Location: Pandora
         

Re: 2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation 3 - Post Free Agency Discussion 

Post#1931 » by King4Day » Tue Oct 3, 2023 12:43 am

I'm just catching up on media day interviews. Beal seems like he's a very positive person. Positive attitude. I fn love that.
"Sometimes, the dragon wins" #RallyTheValley
User avatar
bwgood77
Global Mod
Global Mod
Posts: 98,176
And1: 61,017
Joined: Feb 06, 2009
Location: Austin
Contact:
   

Re: 2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation 3 - Post Free Agency Discussion 

Post#1932 » by bwgood77 » Tue Oct 3, 2023 12:43 am

sunsbg wrote:I watched a bit of DA's interview and still think he could've been key to a championship if he wanted to stay, but it's time someone shows him Shaq's stats and footage. This DominAyton talk is really lame.


Yeah, he needs to stop using that term. Walk the walk instead of talking the talk. Sure he can dominate and has quite a bit, but other times he doesn't, so it's a bit cringy when he uses it. If he was Embiid or Jokic, or even Amare, especially early Amare, maybe, but even then, I prefer the Tim Duncan type quiet confidence.
bwoolf2
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,849
And1: 4,306
Joined: Jun 26, 2014

Re: 2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation 3 - Post Free Agency Discussion 

Post#1933 » by bwoolf2 » Tue Oct 3, 2023 12:47 am

Like that Nurk is slimmed down that should help some with his mobility and lift. He looks like he is in better shape than the past few years.
User avatar
bullsaficianado
Bench Warmer
Posts: 1,496
And1: 804
Joined: Jun 17, 2007
Location: Illinois, USA
 

Re: 2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation 3 - Post Free Agency Discussion 

Post#1934 » by bullsaficianado » Tue Oct 3, 2023 12:57 am

I figured Ayton wanted out not at all surprised. Knowing he wanted out Suns actually did pretty well in the trade.
User avatar
bwgood77
Global Mod
Global Mod
Posts: 98,176
And1: 61,017
Joined: Feb 06, 2009
Location: Austin
Contact:
   

Re: 2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation 3 - Post Free Agency Discussion 

Post#1935 » by bwgood77 » Tue Oct 3, 2023 1:07 am

lilfishi22 wrote:
TeamTragic wrote:
sunsbum wrote:

Just now watching this, interesting at the 4ish min mark someone asked how he found out, he said Matt took him up and told him. DA went on to say "I was thankful he accommodated my wishes". So looks like DA asked out privately as well.


This will go down as the dumbest trade request in NBA history. That clown looked at our current lineup with brand new ownership and a new coach and decided that he wants to go to a rebuilding team where centers go to die.

Mindblowing. DA needs multiple therapists and someone that can put him on the right path.

It worked out for all sides. He got to go to a team where he'll likely have more freedom to do what he wants out on the court, likely not have elite players like Book/KD/CP3 (at the time) stare him down for not doing what he should be doing and just being in a much lower pressure environment. I've said for a while now that I thought the best place for him and his character is on a team where he can be featured as the #1 or #2 guy, it's in a small-medium NBA city without the national spotlights and relatively low stakes. I thought Detroit, Indiania Orlando would've been a good landing spot for him.

You could say he's taking the Jeremi Grant route of going from a contender to a smaller market where he could be featured (coincidently, Detroit) and give himself an opportunity to be the man. I think Grant did a good job in Detroit, he was their go-to guy on a low stakes rebuilding team, generally got no pressure from the press/media and occasionally he'd get a mention or a highlight reel on the ESPN's when he has the occasional 30+, 40+ pt games. He'll now be playing with Ayton, ironically.

Portland is rebuilding but they already have some pieces in place with Scoot, Grant and Sharpe so he won't be the #1 guy but there's a chance he's no worse than #3 and potentially could be #2 depending on how well Scoot acclimates and if they move Grant


I don't think it was so much about being a #1 guy or a lot of shots. Even in that interview, just like he said in countless Suns interviews, he doesn't care about a lot of shots, will sacrifice his shots for others, etc, and will do what he needs to do, etc.

I think it mainly comes down to where he didn't feel valued, even maybe going back to the summer he was eligible for a max extension and never heard from Jones...this was when everyone was expecting him to get the max, thought he deserved it...I even remember listening to the Timeline guys and Max/David and they all thought he deserved it...Chris Paul said he'd get the bag. Then they never heard from Jones, according to his agent (even though Jones said he would have been open to a 4 year max). Then the next summer when he was a FA, again, they tell him to go find a deal elsewhere...then they match it. Just kind of a strange way to treat the situation.

I think he put it behind him for the most part but being the youngest guy always seemed to be a scapegoat for losses and any mistakes were amplified, especially by the fans. I think most appreciated Ayton until the team expectations went through the roof after the finals play, and even though he made some improvements the following year, expectations were so high it was hard for people to live up to, but they still won the 64 games, but Paul suddenly got old after 2 games in the Mavs series and became a different player and our team looked different due to Paul. Paul was the biggest reason that series changed, and then everyone choked in game 7, yet it was an argument with Monty after they were down 30 or 40 in the 4th (but had been down over 30 at halftime), that people focused on, even though the reasons we lost that series were Chris Paul and NO ONE showing up in game 7. Ayton helped save us in the Pelicans series when Book was out.

Then last year our whole team is injured, but losses were again blamed on Ayton. Jokic dominated him, but he dominates everyone.

I think he just wanted a situation where he felt more valued...not so much that he wanted to be the #1 guy or anything. He's never really cared about that.

You can work at a great company, but if you are not valued, and you feel they have tried to lowball you on pay, you are probably not going to be happy.

Nurk had a good interview. Hopefully he gets rejuvenated too and plays better than he has the last few 4-5 years.
User avatar
bwgood77
Global Mod
Global Mod
Posts: 98,176
And1: 61,017
Joined: Feb 06, 2009
Location: Austin
Contact:
   

Re: 2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation 3 - Post Free Agency Discussion 

Post#1936 » by bwgood77 » Tue Oct 3, 2023 1:09 am

King4Day wrote:I'm just catching up on media day interviews. Beal seems like he's a very positive person. Positive attitude. I fn love that.


Yeah, I like Beal a lot.
User avatar
bigfoot
Suns Forum Anti-Tank Commander
Posts: 9,889
And1: 6,509
Joined: Sep 16, 2010
 

Re: 2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation 3 - Post Free Agency Discussion 

Post#1937 » by bigfoot » Tue Oct 3, 2023 1:20 am

bwoolf2 wrote:Like that Nurk is slimmed down that should help some with his mobility and lift. He looks like he is in better shape than the past few years.


He's 280 and that's the weight he said he wants to play at
bwoolf2
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,849
And1: 4,306
Joined: Jun 26, 2014

Re: 2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation 3 - Post Free Agency Discussion 

Post#1938 » by bwoolf2 » Tue Oct 3, 2023 2:05 am

bigfoot wrote:
bwoolf2 wrote:Like that Nurk is slimmed down that should help some with his mobility and lift. He looks like he is in better shape than the past few years.


He's 280 and that's the weight he said he wants to play at


Ya saw that last few years been playing at 300 plus so good to see him slimmer.
garrick
Head Coach
Posts: 7,357
And1: 4,071
Joined: Dec 02, 2006
     

Re: 2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation 3 - Post Free Agency Discussion 

Post#1939 » by garrick » Tue Oct 3, 2023 2:18 am

bwgood77 wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:
TeamTragic wrote:
This will go down as the dumbest trade request in NBA history. That clown looked at our current lineup with brand new ownership and a new coach and decided that he wants to go to a rebuilding team where centers go to die.

Mindblowing. DA needs multiple therapists and someone that can put him on the right path.

It worked out for all sides. He got to go to a team where he'll likely have more freedom to do what he wants out on the court, likely not have elite players like Book/KD/CP3 (at the time) stare him down for not doing what he should be doing and just being in a much lower pressure environment. I've said for a while now that I thought the best place for him and his character is on a team where he can be featured as the #1 or #2 guy, it's in a small-medium NBA city without the national spotlights and relatively low stakes. I thought Detroit, Indiania Orlando would've been a good landing spot for him.

You could say he's taking the Jeremi Grant route of going from a contender to a smaller market where he could be featured (coincidently, Detroit) and give himself an opportunity to be the man. I think Grant did a good job in Detroit, he was their go-to guy on a low stakes rebuilding team, generally got no pressure from the press/media and occasionally he'd get a mention or a highlight reel on the ESPN's when he has the occasional 30+, 40+ pt games. He'll now be playing with Ayton, ironically.

Portland is rebuilding but they already have some pieces in place with Scoot, Grant and Sharpe so he won't be the #1 guy but there's a chance he's no worse than #3 and potentially could be #2 depending on how well Scoot acclimates and if they move Grant


I don't think it was so much about being a #1 guy or a lot of shots. Even in that interview, just like he said in countless Suns interviews, he doesn't care about a lot of shots, will sacrifice his shots for others, etc, and will do what he needs to do, etc.

I think it mainly comes down to where he didn't feel valued, even maybe going back to the summer he was eligible for a max extension and never heard from Jones...this was when everyone was expecting him to get the max, thought he deserved it...I even remember listening to the Timeline guys and Max/David and they all thought he deserved it...Chris Paul said he'd get the bag. Then they never heard from Jones, according to his agent (even though Jones said he would have been open to a 4 year max). Then the next summer when he was a FA, again, they tell him to go find a deal elsewhere...then they match it. Just kind of a strange way to treat the situation.

I think he put it behind him for the most part but being the youngest guy always seemed to be a scapegoat for losses and any mistakes were amplified, especially by the fans. I think most appreciated Ayton until the team expectations went through the roof after the finals play, and even though he made some improvements the following year, expectations were so high it was hard for people to live up to, but they still won the 64 games, but Paul suddenly got old after 2 games in the Mavs series and became a different player and our team looked different due to Paul. Paul was the biggest reason that series changed, and then everyone choked in game 7, yet it was an argument with Monty after they were down 30 or 40 in the 4th (but had been down over 30 at halftime), that people focused on, even though the reasons we lost that series were Chris Paul and NO ONE showing up in game 7. Ayton helped save us in the Pelicans series when Book was out.

Then last year our whole team is injured, but losses were again blamed on Ayton. Jokic dominated him, but he dominates everyone.

I think he just wanted a situation where he felt more valued...not so much that he wanted to be the #1 guy or anything. He's never really cared about that.

You can work at a great company, but if you are not valued, and you feel they have tried to lowball you on pay, you are probably not going to be happy.

Nurk had a good interview. Hopefully he gets rejuvenated too and plays better than he has the last few 4-5 years.


The Suns org has been exploring trades for DA since 2022 and from the sound of it Monty & the Suns (JJ?) didn't do a lot to make him feel like they really wanted him.

Judging from the Crowder fiasco it sounds like Monty and JJ are really bad at managing relations if there's any sort of conflict between the player and the coach/management.
User avatar
kennydorglas
Suns Forum Statistical Savant
Posts: 8,898
And1: 6,127
Joined: Jul 31, 2012
Location: Bauru SP
Contact:
       

Re: 2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation 3 - Post Free Agency Discussion 

Post#1940 » by kennydorglas » Tue Oct 3, 2023 2:26 am

Im just glad this chapter is finally over.
"I got nothing to prove in this league. I’m a max player, and I’ll continue to be a max player."
Five foot Eighton

“No matter what you do or how you do it, as long as you have true passion you will succeed.”
Luis “WEEZY” Egurrola

Return to Phoenix Suns