2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation

[Saberestar]

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[ImNotMcDiSwear]

Jimmy wants PHX because he knows we'll give him the bag. Rileys eyeing that golden lottery ticket. Everyone's hoping the whale pushes all in.

You mean 2031 pick? Pat Riley will be 80 in March. Arison is 75. I am guessing they hope to get an offer with players that can play with Herro and Bam now like the GS guys. It is curious to wonder what GS will do.

Curry is 36 and almost 37. But they probably also want to do right for them. But they do have some nice young talent too. However, is their young talent at near the level of other young talent in the west? Not really. They could say "hey, lets just trade Wiggins, Kuminga and our 25 first and then we can bottom out and get some really high draft picks in a couple of years, but give Steph what he needs now. A Steph/Dray/Butler trio seems like a better fit than ours especially considering they have some other decent pieces in there like Trayce Jackson Davis, Looney, Schroder, etc. They could defend fairly well but also have the offense.

Plus they can afford to give up something for him without totally sacrificing their future because I believe they have all their picks.

I'm sure Pat Riley would be just find having his impact felt from beyond the grave. Legacy, baby.

He could always trade the pick. It won't be less valuable next year, or the year after that. The value of our '31 pick isn't contingent on anything. It might as well be made of gold.

[Puff]

The first person out the door should be Kevin Durant. His acquisition was the start of creating the mess that we are currently in.

I would also trade Book, he is not a leader. However, the return needs to be what some have suggested. Our draft picks from Houston and some young players.

Beal is not going anywhere unless we throw in some of the draft picks we would get in a KD or Book trade. I would just send him home and pay him the remainder of his contract.

I would love to see a starting five of Gillespie, Oso and Dunn along with whomever we pick up in the trades for Book and KD.

It might actually be fun to watch Suns basketball again.

Bud can pack his bags as well - not impressed.

[bwgood77]

I don't know why starter level players get so offended coming off the bench if it's to help the team win games. Kukoc and Ginobili did it for years to benefit their team and they were starter level players and both HOF players. suck it up Beal.

He doesn't seem to care that much. I mean when asked in an interview "do you see yourself as a starter?" what do you expect any player to say? "Nah, I see myself as a bench guy". Every one really takes tidbits of interviews and blows it up as if some player is pissed about something. I don't know if you watched the game, but he was clearly in good spirits. I mean he knows he still gets starter minutes and is out there to close usually, etc.

[bwgood77]

I don't know why starter level players get so offended coming off the bench if it's to help the team win games. Kukoc and Ginobili did it for years to benefit their team and they were starter level players and both HOF players. suck it up Beal.

It's not a common thing, that's why you needed to talk about 2 really special players that played too many years ago. Kukoc played 25/30 years ago a Ginobili around 15 years ago.

Beal is your typical All-Star player that starts fading early in his career. He hasn't been the same player since he was 28-29 years old and he doesn't want to accept it. It's a matter of time.

His role is just changed. He was 29 his last year in Washington, and the main difference coming to Phx is he gets far fewer shots/touches, though his efficiency went up. I mean someone's FGA had to be impacted, and it wasn't going to be KD and Book.

It's like comparing Book's stats on the Suns to his olympic stats and just saying "looks like he's not the same player anymore. He has to accept it."

[bwgood77]

I don't know why starter level players get so offended coming off the bench if it's to help the team win games. Kukoc and Ginobili did it for years to benefit their team and they were starter level players and both HOF players. suck it up Beal.

It's not a common thing, that's why you needed to talk about 2 really special players that played too many years ago. Kukoc played 25/30 years ago a Ginobili around 15 years ago.

Beal is your typical All-Star player that starts fading early in his career. He hasn't been the same player since he was 28-29 years old and he doesn't want to accept it. It's a matter of time.

Which is why you do the Butler trade if you can find a 3rd team and he will waive his NTC. Beal will have a nice game here and there but he is never consistent.

Same goes for any player who isn't KD. I mean, even Book this year, just look at his last 4 games....4 for 20 against Memphis, then 7 for 15 against Indy, then 3 for 16 vs Philly, and then he finally comes through big against the Hornets, going 14-25 to have his first game over 20 pts in quite some time (he hadn't scored over 20 pts since 12/15). He got 39...maybe his best game this season. Too bad we lost though.

[bwgood77]

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But do other teams even legitimately want to extend Butler anyways? I haven't really heard about any other teams openly stating that they would give him an extension. So nothing really changes with this because the heat don't want Beal, if any teams at all even do.

And that's even if Beal would improve a trade somewhere. This Butler trade premise just needs to end so we can look at actual realistic possibilities!

I don't know if Sidery's info is legit, but if so, Jimmy is stupid to do this, because if Miami does not want to trade him to Phx that means he won't get a new contract at all.

I can't believe his agent would be saying this or if Sidery is just running with it. I know he is trying to force his way to Phx but if we don't have the assets, then he is going to end up Nerlens Noel'ing himself.

[Saberestar]

I don't know why starter level players get so offended coming off the bench if it's to help the team win games. Kukoc and Ginobili did it for years to benefit their team and they were starter level players and both HOF players. suck it up Beal.

It's not a common thing, that's why you needed to talk about 2 really special players that played too many years ago. Kukoc played 25/30 years ago a Ginobili around 15 years ago.

Beal is your typical All-Star player that starts fading early in his career. He hasn't been the same player since he was 28-29 years old and he doesn't want to accept it. It's a matter of time.

His role is just changed. He was 29 his last year in Washington, and the main difference coming to Phx is he gets far fewer shots/touches, though his efficiency went up. I mean someone's FGA had to be impacted, and it wasn't going to be KD and Book.

It's like comparing Book's stats on the Suns to his olympic stats and just saying "looks like he's not the same player anymore. He has to accept it."

It's not about his role, he can't carry an offense anymore.

I have been a fan of him for too many years and I know pretty well his game. I was excited about his acquisition but the truth is that he hasn't meet expectations. He was a relentless scorer and now he doesn't have the energy or the legs to do it.

He can’t create for him or his teammates consistently and that's why his shooting numbers and overall usage are down...it's not the other way.

But he is a Suns player yet so I would love to watch any type of improvement on his game.

[BobbieL]

The first person out the door should be Kevin Durant. His acquisition was the start of creating the mess that we are currently in.

I would also trade Book, he is not a leader. However, the return needs to be what some have suggested. Our draft picks from Houston and some young players.

Beal is not going anywhere unless we throw in some of the draft picks we would get in a KD or Book trade. I would just send him home and pay him the remainder of his contract.

I would love to see a starting five of Gillespie, Oso and Dunn along with whomever we pick up in the trades for Book and KD.

It might actually be fun to watch Suns basketball again.

Bud can pack his bags as well - not impressed.

Bud might like coaching a young team again, who knows
this can't be fun for Budenholzer now

I would agree though - move Durant move Booker and anybody else with trade value

[bwgood77]

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But do other teams even legitimately want to extend Butler anyways? I haven't really heard about any other teams openly stating that they would give him an extension. So nothing really changes with this because the heat don't want Beal, if any teams at all even do.

And that's even if Beal would improve a trade somewhere. This Butler trade premise just needs to end so we can look at actual realistic possibilities!

Mat the Whale? Maybe better: Fat Mat. Or the The Bag Man. Baggy Mat, Fat Mat, Mr. Bags, Big Mat, Big Stacks Matty, Fatty Mat, Mat the Cat...

I could go on forever, baby...

Can The Bag Man?

I like Wishbia (compliments to Frank)...if we want a variation on Mat, without a lot of thought...Fat Cat Mat? It appears you were trying to use Fat Mat instead of Fat Cat but Fat Cat Mat has a nice ring.

[enigmatics]

The first person out the door should be Kevin Durant. His acquisition was the start of creating the mess that we are currently in.

I would also trade Book, he is not a leader. However, the return needs to be what some have suggested. Our draft picks from Houston and some young players.

Beal is not going anywhere unless we throw in some of the draft picks we would get in a KD or Book trade. I would just send him home and pay him the remainder of his contract.

I would love to see a starting five of Gillespie, Oso and Dunn along with whomever we pick up in the trades for Book and KD.

It might actually be fun to watch Suns basketball again.

Bud can pack his bags as well - not impressed.

The truth is this team has taken on KD's personality i.e. often times indifferent/apathetic and very finesse. He gives off the "couldn't care less" vibe and that rubs off on players looking up to him instead of giving them leadership.

I don't want to turn this into an argument - but it doesn't surprise me given how steeped he is in weed culture.

[BobbieL]

The first person out the door should be Kevin Durant. His acquisition was the start of creating the mess that we are currently in.

I would also trade Book, he is not a leader. However, the return needs to be what some have suggested. Our draft picks from Houston and some young players.

Beal is not going anywhere unless we throw in some of the draft picks we would get in a KD or Book trade. I would just send him home and pay him the remainder of his contract.

I would love to see a starting five of Gillespie, Oso and Dunn along with whomever we pick up in the trades for Book and KD.

It might actually be fun to watch Suns basketball again.

Bud can pack his bags as well - not impressed.

The truth is this team has taken on KD's personality i.e. often times indifferent/apathetic and very finesse. He gives off the "couldn't care less" vibe and that rubs off on players looking up to him instead of giving them leadership.

I don't want to turn this into an argument - but it doesn't surprise me given how steeped he is in weed culture.

Extremeley talented player.
He can score the ball - thats for sure

But its not working here to win a title. I get it was Ishbia that made the trade.
But is the goal to win a title or maybe be th 7-10 seed and get blasted in the play-in game or Round 1

If the true goal of Mat Ishbia is to win an NBA Title - he knows what he needs to do
Does he have the onions to do it?

Either way, he will probably get a ShamBomb and be on the ESPN NBA show
but will it be because he went all it trying to draw to an inside straight flush
or because he blew it up

[handsome salary]

Blow it all up or stay unwatchable and unlikable for the next 3-4 seasons. Jesus. Not even halfway through the season.

For all his faults at least Colangelo didn't ruin season after season for Suns fans. There was typically hope and shrewd moves.

[Ghost of Kleine]

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So that'd be $60.5 million per year!
And if true! That would be insane and really another bad decision added to many. They we're mentioning on locked on Suns that if a Butler deal were to actually happen, the deal would be 110-112/ 3 years ( $ 36-38 million per year) which would obviously be much better and more palatable by far! I get the inherent value of getting off of Beals' no-trade clause. But at $60 million per year for a 36-year-old Butler??? That'd be nearly as bad if not as bad as trying to move Beal in terms of perceived negative value.

But even worse than that, would be the clear underlying message that if Ishbia is willing to overpay by that much for a 36-year-old Butler with KD extending upon the acquisition of Butler. This basically indicates that Ishbia is going to continue to try and push this massive trainwreck for at least another two years. And by then, KD will either be retired or have no trade value left!!! And Butler will only have minimal to no trade value too at 38 years old and $60 million. And even Booker will have less perceived trade value at 30 years old (especially if he continues to struggle and regress.

I really hope that this doesn't happen because if it somehow does, then our future will be utterly destroyed with zero hope of getting back on track. And we'll then be in a worse rebuild than even under parsimonious Saver himself! We'd be looking at a 20-year rebuild minimum.

[Fo-Real]

I have never been a fan of blowing it up, but if you ask me if I'd rather blow it up or pay aging Jimmy Butler 60+ mil a year...... I have matches for the **** fuse!!!

[bwgood77]

It's not a common thing, that's why you needed to talk about 2 really special players that played too many years ago. Kukoc played 25/30 years ago a Ginobili around 15 years ago.

Beal is your typical All-Star player that starts fading early in his career. He hasn't been the same player since he was 28-29 years old and he doesn't want to accept it. It's a matter of time.

His role is just changed. He was 29 his last year in Washington, and the main difference coming to Phx is he gets far fewer shots/touches, though his efficiency went up. I mean someone's FGA had to be impacted, and it wasn't going to be KD and Book.

It's like comparing Book's stats on the Suns to his olympic stats and just saying "looks like he's not the same player anymore. He has to accept it."

It's not about his role, he can't carry an offense anymore.

I have been a fan of him for too many years and I know pretty well his game. I was excited about his acquisition but the truth is that he hasn't meet expectations. He was a relentless scorer and now he doesn't have the energy or the legs to do it.

He can’t create for him or his teammates consistently and that's why his shooting numbers and overall usage are down...it's not the other way.

But he is a Suns player yet so I would love to watch any type of improvement on his game.

I think he can create his own shot just fine and I think he is actually very good at getting to the rim, probably better than our other stars. However, sometimes his midrange game is on fire, and sometimes it's off. Same as Book this year actually.

I think one thing he tries too much which hurts his impact is he actually gets the ball in nice spots to Nurkic AND Plumlee...like as they are both rolling to the rim, but then the C messes it up and doesn't finish. While I think he may be theoretically either making the right play or at least what would normally be a good play to get someone involved, with these Cs, he should just finish himself.

But the guy, if he wasn't playing as a 3rd fiddle to Book and KD, would still be close to 25 ppg.

His shots are way down and he s still over 19ppg, and that is leaving a couple games early. I get he is disappointing often, but he still can score...most all players are pretty inconsistent except a guy like KD. And he has put a lot more effort on defense this year than in the past. I know he's an easy scapegoat for everyone but it's a little more complicated than that. Last year our team played really well when all 3 of them were playing, and went 34-18 after he came back from back issues. This year he is down a little bit on offense (though playing better D), but Book is down a lot on offense as well. And I think adding Tyus, even though he has been playing well, was probably something in hindsight, we didn't really need, and needed more defense than offensive initiation in the starting unit.

Back to not being able to carry the offense anymore. He could never carry the offense by himself on a good team. He could get to the 2nd round when playing with another solid player and decent cast like Booker could, but Booker obviously could never carry a team by himself either.

This is a team thing. And really, I think C is our weak spot. I do think both Beal and Book have off games. Book is the better overall player on offense, but his offense (at least shooting) is really down overall. And his defense is back kind of to where it was a few years ago.

[King4Day]

$60m a year for a dude averaging 17ppg you can't make this up. Unreal.

Gambo mentioned 3 years yesterday. I wonder if this is what he meant. 3 @ 120 is better (still not great). But lord help us if we give him 2 @ 120.
You think Beal is a bad contract now....

[bwgood77]

Ishbia trying to scramble to make one more deal and squeeze the last drop out of what assets we have to be relevant reminds me of the ending of The Substance. Though the analogy doesn't totally fit because she was trying to be young. But every day when reading here thinking of him scrambling for relevance I think of the last 30 minutes of that movie and think of it equating to the next few years of the Suns.

[BobbieL]

Ishbia trying to scramble to make one more deal and squeeze the last drop out of what assets we have to be relevant reminds me of the ending of The Substance. Though the analogy doesn't totally fit because she was trying to be young. But every day when reading here thinking of him scrambling for relevance I think of the last 30 minutes of that movie and think of it equating to the next few years of the Suns.

The only way Butler makes sense - and IT DOESN"T - but the only way is to trade Jones for a couple seconds
Maybe move Nurkic for something plus a draft pick

and use those picks with Beal to get Butler
But Oso, Dunn and the 2031 should not be on the table

That said - I still think blowing it up makes more sense than paying Butler, extending Durant. Its going to be ugly for the Suns

that team isn't winning, to quote inspirational speak Matt Foley, "Jack! Squat!!!"

[bwgood77]

$60m a year for a dude averaging 17ppg you can't make this up. Unreal.

Gambo mentioned 3 years yesterday. I wonder if this is what he meant. 3 @ 120 is better (still not great). But lord help us if we give him 2 @ 120.
You think Beal is a bad contract now....

Perk said 2 years, $121 million, though he may not have the # right because the max extension is supposed to be like a little over $111 or 112 million I think...

What kind of extension is Butler looking for? What's the most likely outcome ahead of the trade deadline?

Because of the league's Over-38 rule, the maximum extension Miami could sign Butler is for two years, $112.6 million. That would replace his $52.4 million player option for next season with a new salary starting at $54.1 million. The second year would pay Butler $58.5 million when he is 37.

If Butler were traded, he would be eligible to sign a two-year, $111 million extension with his new team.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/43277039/jimmy-butler-miami-heat-suspension-possible-trade