Season Speculation, Trade Ideas & Discussion Pt. 3

[NavLDO]

I don't think you can have too many picks. Not when you need talent. Not when you need the most chances possible at finding that franchise cornerstone. The only way I would part with first rounders is if I knew the player we had control of the player (like we did with Knight), so someone on a rookie contract, OR someone due for an extension who basically had agreed to re-sign. I wouldn't unload picks for a guy that could opt out of his contract next summer like Jordan can.

The picks themselves don't appear anywhere until a player is drafted for this team, before then they are just "rights". Once they become players, they then become a line item in our salary cap, a roster spot, minutes in a game and as off-court development commitment. When we have all these picks and already have a bunch of young guys who needs minutes, development time and familiarity playing with your top players, I just don't think they (esp those at the mid-late lottery) are assets which we need to cling onto like a needy GF. Not saying we should be giving them away willy-nilly but when a player of DAJ's caliber becomes available, we should be willing to use them as trade chips.

In the end, you can't have a roster full of mid-lotto, 1st round guys and hope one of them become something. You need a better plan that that.

A team full of mid lotto first round guys should yield you something pretty good unless you just can't make picks. DeAndre Jordan was a second round pick...#35.

GS got Curry and Thompson mid lottery and Green in the 2nd round.

Philly and Boston's plans were to stockpile picks, draft some players in the lottery and then when you have your core, sign a FA or make a trade.

Philly drafted Simmons, Embiid, Saric, Holmes, Korkmaz, Luwawu and once they had that core, they traded a couple of picks for Fultz and signed Redick.

Boston drafted Bradley, Smart, Rozier, Olynyk, Brown, then signed Horford and traded of IT, and then they drafted Taytum, signed Hayward and traded for Irving.

A plan to build through the draft, stockpile picks, and cash in when the time is right isn't a bad plan if it's executed correctly. To continue to go away from your plan to try and make a splash and compete now when our team is full of 20 years olds is a recipe for disaster. How many years do we have to see it to believe it?

This conbuilding or whatever people call it doesn't work well.

Anyway, like I said, our glaring holes are PG and PF. DeAndre Jordan doesn't really solve our biggest current problems. He gives us a slight upgrade. He's a great rebounder but we already have rebounders. He is a better shot blocker than Len and finishes around the rim about as good as Tyson. And he can't fit free throws and makes $24 million.

Not that I wholly disagree with your point, but how many 20YOs do you want on the roster?

And regarding PFs being our biggest weakness, are you including Chandler as one of our Centers? Because he'snot in our future...like, at all, and outside of him, we have 2 guys about to leave and a broken 'Sauce'; yet we have 2 x 20YO PFs that have some promise. You can't look at them after 90-100 games and give up on them yet...well, you can, but that wouldn't be fair, IMO. Chriss has shown some nice 3PT shooting and Blocking skills, and Bender has as well, plus defensive ability to stay with anyone but the quickest of PGs.

I worry that if we do not get someone in here soon, that we might lose Booker. Sometimes, a 5th year isn't enough to keep someone on a losing team.

We have Booker and Warren; we need to show Booker we are committed to development of this team sooner rather than later, and by that, not bringing in 1-2 more 20YOs that will take another 3 years to develop.

Then, of course, there is us, the fans...some us...ok, ME...are getting tired of the 7, 8, 9-year plan:

Kieff- FAIL
Marshall - UBER-Fail
Len - Sort-of-Fail
Warren - Hit
Booker - Hit
Chriss/Bender - Too early to tell, but it's going SLOOOWWWW
JJ - Not the 'instant' Hit everyone as hoping for...

Those other teams you mentioned were able to turn their picks, etc., in to players. We can do the same thing, yet we sit here with an awesome SF, and an up-and-coming...SF? Why??? Honestly, why are we not turning JJ, Bender, and/or Chriss, plus 2 x Miami Picks and a Mil pick into ONE star player (obviously, not all of them, but some...)

What happens when JJ 'gets good'?

YAY, we have TWO awesome SFs, TWO developing PFs...and STILL no PG or C of the future. It just seems like NOW is an ideal for McD to execute his plan (and by now, I mean anytime before next season; not RIGHT now.)

[thamadkant]

I think the comparison is moot for now. Tatum wouldn't be looking this good had we drafted him. He is benefitting a ton from having two all-stars creating tons of room and a proper system. I'm not saying he's not the better player but I bet JJ would look a lot better was he playing on the Celtics.

Plus 1


Tatum would look way worse next to suns players all playing for themselves in a chaotic offense.

Celtics are a good team with proper role players and system.



In the Suns offense... Whomever handles the ball put up the stats... Minus Warren and rebounding obviously. Little plays for wings rather than shoot at the perimeter.

[NavLDO]

The thing that scares me about Len is that it took us to not extend his contract for him to actually step up and play like his career depended on it (Which it does). The rest of the years he's been with us, he's just been kinda ho-hum and really under preformed.

And even with his step up in play, he still makes a lot of stupid mistakes. For a Center he makes a loooooooow percentage of his shots. Now i am loving his rebounding and defensive effort, but if he lands a new contract with us, will he revert back to the same old Len, or stay the guy with increased play once he had a fire lit under his ass. Thats the real question.

Of course not. Look at all the stupid ways they tried to develop him, then never gave him (and still aren't) the reins to run the show as the starting Center. I've given up on him completely, actually. He's dead to me. Not because I don;t like him, but because he's all but gone, and most of it was due to how he was developed between Horny, Watson, and now even Triano is defaulting to Chandler.

No, what you'll see, if any GM is smart enough to lat him start and develop him properly, will be a guy that will make this dysfunctional franchise look exactly like it does--dysfunctional. They are ruining Bender and Chriss, as well, IMO. I'd pick one, trade the other. COMMIT to one and be done with it.

Of course, there's a good chance I'm way off base...

[Saberestar]

There has also been ongoing chatter the Bucks are interested in Philadelphia’s Jahlil Okafor, who is being shopped for a first-round draft choice, as well as Phoenix center Tyson Chandler, who has a good rapport with Bucks coach Jason Kidd and whom the Bucks had looked into trading for in the past.

http://woelfelspressbox.com/2017/12/jordan-becomes-center-of-bucks-attention/

[NavLDO]

There is plenty of ways to finish behind Dallas, Brooklyn, and Sac. Maybe even Atl once our schedule balances out. We have played one of the easiest schedules so far. Our schedule is going to be infinitely tougher than all of those teams down the stretch. Losing does not mean there is no development. Individual players need to develop, and that can happen despite losses, as it has with Booker.

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Dallas is the only team I think could get hot. The others have no talent. Brooklyn lost Lin and Russel. Sacramento is more raw than we are with less star power. Atlanta? Maybe because they are in the East.
The Clippers will catch up until Griffin returns. And by then, they might decide to just crash the season and get a high pick (so they won't let him return if that's the case).

You can grow while losing but not learning how to win is dangerous.
Sure, Embiid and Simmons were higher picks, but when we compare our higher picks, they aren't very impressive. Bender, Len, and (so far) Jackson. Chriss to a lesser extent considering where we picked him. You'd like to think one of these guys will hit but so far, only Bender and Jackson have the most hope but neither has had that game yet where you say 'THAT'S the guy we drafted.

I'm hoping swapping coaches and getting improved player dev from Triano will be enough to turn the corner for some of these guys.

This ignores the actual draft classes and quality of those higher picks, and there is a big difference in most drafts between pick 1 and the rest. Simmons is way better than everyone else in the draft. Embiid was in a loaded draft and would have been pick 1 if not for injury. Expecting our top picks like Bender, who was a long term project big man and the youngest player in the NBA, to be close to as impressive as the 76ers top picks, is just crazy.

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Not to mention, Chriss, who got his first taste of varsity Basketball in his Sophomore Year in HS...meaning he had all of 4 years of Competitive-level Basketball

Then, look at who they have surrounding them. Wonder why Poeltl on the Raptors is doing well from that draft? Could it be he is on a winning team? How about Jaylen Brown on the Celtics??

Starting out on a 'winning team' helps a ton, I believe. I had put together a list a few days ago in a post about all the factors that I believe impact the development of rookies. Chriss actually has 'bucked the trend' and has a total .2 VORP, which is higher than a lot of other players from that class. I know many like to 'skewer' Chriss, for some reason, but based upon his minimal experience, and the relative youth and lack of mentorship at the PF position that we have, I think he's done pretty darn well. Bender has done phenomenal this year compared to last year, but they both have a long way to go.

But as I stated earlier this evening, we should commit to one, and use the other, along with, possibly, dare I say, JJ, and Mia '18 1st, Mia '21 1st, and what will likely be the '20 Mil 1st, and turn those into a Star PG, or maybe even Center...which ever we do not get in the draft, or don't think we will target in the draft.

IMO, I'd prefer trading for a PG, and develop a Center, while keeping Monroe or Len, but that will never happen...

[Kerrsed]

Looks like the Clippers want a lot for Jordan.

Sources said Clipper officials have targeted three Bucks in any deal for Jordan. One is John Henson, who is currently the team’s starting center, while the others are reigning Rookie of the Year Malcolm Brogdon, who lost his starting spot when Bledsoe came aboard, and standout swingman Khris Middleton.

The Clippers, I’ve been told, are adamant in acquiring at least two of the aforementioned Bucks and may even demand all three of them.

[bwgood77]

The picks themselves don't appear anywhere until a player is drafted for this team, before then they are just "rights". Once they become players, they then become a line item in our salary cap, a roster spot, minutes in a game and as off-court development commitment. When we have all these picks and already have a bunch of young guys who needs minutes, development time and familiarity playing with your top players, I just don't think they (esp those at the mid-late lottery) are assets which we need to cling onto like a needy GF. Not saying we should be giving them away willy-nilly but when a player of DAJ's caliber becomes available, we should be willing to use them as trade chips.

In the end, you can't have a roster full of mid-lotto, 1st round guys and hope one of them become something. You need a better plan that that.

A team full of mid lotto first round guys should yield you something pretty good unless you just can't make picks. DeAndre Jordan was a second round pick...#35.

GS got Curry and Thompson mid lottery and Green in the 2nd round.

Philly and Boston's plans were to stockpile picks, draft some players in the lottery and then when you have your core, sign a FA or make a trade.

Philly drafted Simmons, Embiid, Saric, Holmes, Korkmaz, Luwawu and once they had that core, they traded a couple of picks for Fultz and signed Redick.

Boston drafted Bradley, Smart, Rozier, Olynyk, Brown, then signed Horford and traded of IT, and then they drafted Taytum, signed Hayward and traded for Irving.

A plan to build through the draft, stockpile picks, and cash in when the time is right isn't a bad plan if it's executed correctly. To continue to go away from your plan to try and make a splash and compete now when our team is full of 20 years olds is a recipe for disaster. How many years do we have to see it to believe it?

This conbuilding or whatever people call it doesn't work well.

Anyway, like I said, our glaring holes are PG and PF. DeAndre Jordan doesn't really solve our biggest current problems. He gives us a slight upgrade. He's a great rebounder but we already have rebounders. He is a better shot blocker than Len and finishes around the rim about as good as Tyson. And he can't fit free throws and makes $24 million.

Not that I wholly disagree with your point, but how many 20YOs do you want on the roster?

And regarding PFs being our biggest weakness, are you including Chandler as one of our Centers? Because he'snot in our future...like, at all, and outside of him, we have 2 guys about to leave and a broken 'Sauce'; yet we have 2 x 20YO PFs that have some promise. You can't look at them after 90-100 games and give up on them yet...well, you can, but that wouldn't be fair, IMO. Chriss has shown some nice 3PT shooting and Blocking skills, and Bender has as well, plus defensive ability to stay with anyone but the quickest of PGs.

I worry that if we do not get someone in here soon, that we might lose Booker. Sometimes, a 5th year isn't enough to keep someone on a losing team.

We have Booker and Warren; we need to show Booker we are committed to development of this team sooner rather than later, and by that, not bringing in 1-2 more 20YOs that will take another 3 years to develop.

Then, of course, there is us, the fans...some us...ok, ME...are getting tired of the 7, 8, 9-year plan:

Kieff- FAIL
Marshall - UBER-Fail
Len - Sort-of-Fail
Warren - Hit
Booker - Hit
Chriss/Bender - Too early to tell, but it's going SLOOOWWWW
JJ - Not the 'instant' Hit everyone as hoping for...

Those other teams you mentioned were able to turn their picks, etc., in to players. We can do the same thing, yet we sit here with an awesome SF, and an up-and-coming...SF? Why??? Honestly, why are we not turning JJ, Bender, and/or Chriss, plus 2 x Miami Picks and a Mil pick into ONE star player (obviously, not all of them, but some...)

What happens when JJ 'gets good'?

YAY, we have TWO awesome SFs, TWO developing PFs...and STILL no PG or C of the future. It just seems like NOW is an ideal time for McD to execute his plan (and by now, I mean anytime before next season; not RIGHT now.)

About PF vs C I was talking about our team this year, and where are biggest weaknesses are because the discussion was primarily about how good we are right now. This year we have quite a few Cs despite one of them being out. As for the future, my hope is to address it in the draft since there are 5-6 centers in the top 10-12. On top of that, Cs were cheap on the market this past year and there is an expected further depressed market this summer with a limited number of teams having cap space and a number of free agent Cs hitting the market. It will be a buyers market if we really want one.

I was very tired of Sarver and the quick fixes we keep trying to do it with ever changing coaches and a churning roster. I think continuity is important.

I've always wanted to build through the draft. All of our picks won't pan out. Hopefully many of them do. Hopefully we have or get the right coach in place. I'm not about patching together a few vets with all these youngsters in what I think would be an ill fated short sighted attempt to get better quickly.

Our players need to mature and grow and we need to use picks, let them fight it out, and see what our core's strengths are and then add free agents. The west is loaded with all stars right now.

I think eventually we will make a pick this year. If we use our picks wisely this year, we may hit on someone who makes an impact fairly quickly. It's been pretty random which teams end up with these players.

When you say we have no PG or C in the future, and you want McD to execute some sort of plan, those of us wanting to build through the draft want us to use our two first rounders (hopefully we have at least two) to address C and PG.

PG is our most important position to address. I actually would like to get a vet PG on the roster right now but I've gone through the teams and have no idea who might be available. Maybe someone like George Hill who I'd be fine with if they want Monroe and to get out of his contract. I think he only has one year guaranteed after this one so we'd still clear cap space in 2019 to maybe go after a big name FA. I might take a look at Orlando's PGs but Payton will want a new contract soon. Augustin might make too much, though he has played well.

The thing I hate most about our team this year is the PG position so I'm open to thoughts there but ultimately hope we can address it in the draft (even though I still think it might be important to have a vet there too anyway).

[LukasBMW]

Looks like the Clippers want a lot for Jordan.

Sources said Clipper officials have targeted three Bucks in any deal for Jordan. One is John Henson, who is currently the team’s starting center, while the others are reigning Rookie of the Year Malcolm Brogdon, who lost his starting spot when Bledsoe came aboard, and standout swingman Khris Middleton.

The Clippers, I’ve been told, are adamant in acquiring at least two of the aforementioned Bucks and may even demand all three of them.

LOL. Not gonna happen.

[RaisingArizona]

I'm surprised so many people are down on Bender already. What is he at now? 50 games? At the very least he's already a 3 and D guy that can defend 1-5. How many of those are there in the NBA? I bet we could count them on 1 hand.

66 games. I don't know. The 5 points a game just doesn't do it for me. Obviously he has time to develop but he hasn't really broke out in any game. Maybe 1 that I can remember.

[Kerrsed]

Looks like the Clippers want a lot for Jordan.

Sources said Clipper officials have targeted three Bucks in any deal for Jordan. One is John Henson, who is currently the team’s starting center, while the others are reigning Rookie of the Year Malcolm Brogdon, who lost his starting spot when Bledsoe came aboard, and standout swingman Khris Middleton.

The Clippers, I’ve been told, are adamant in acquiring at least two of the aforementioned Bucks and may even demand all three of them.

LOL. Not gonna happen.

Ive seen more than a few Bucks fan totally down to trade Henson/Brogdon for Jordan. Brogdan has really taken a hit in their eyes since the acquisition of Bledsoe.

Bledsoe/Middleton/Antetokounmpo/Parker/Jordan <----- That is a seriously good team on paper.

[Hesh]

Yeah brogdon has now been made redundant after the bledsoe aquisition. They should've just traded him to us and they desperately need a center which is why they are more than happy to give up both brogdon and henson for DJ.

[Waylay13]

The thing I hate most about our team this year is the PG position so I'm open to thoughts there but ultimately hope we can address it in the draft (even though I still think it might be important to have a vet there too anyway).

The problem with this draft is that there appears to be a real lack of good point guards. Duval might be able but Sexton is a combo guard and after that it looks like there is no one even close.

[thamadkant]

AD went down and Pelicans struggling... so they may want to cash in the chips for Cousins and "tank"


I think McD will try to trade for Cousins and Monroe's contract along with picks will be whats on the table.

Maybe, Len, Monroe, Heat Pick, Bucks Pick for Cousins and filler



Suns have no room to sign FA stars in 2018 FA period....

I can see them also try to trade one of Chriss or Bender for backup PG.
I believe Knight is actually going to be the main man at the 1 spot... McD believed in him... now with the spot open, I think Knight, Booker, Ulis would be enough Kentucky connection for Cousins to want to come in and stay.

[Kerrsed]

AD went down and Pelicans struggling... so they may want to cash in the chips for Cousins and "tank"


I think McD will try to trade for Cousins and Monroe's contract along with picks will be whats on the table.

Maybe, Len, Monroe, Heat Pick, Bucks Pick for Cousins and filler



Suns have no room to sign FA stars in 2018 FA period....

I can see them also try to trade one of Chriss or Bender for backup PG.
I believe Knight is actually going to be the main man at the 1 spot... McD believed in him... now with the spot open, I think Knight, Booker, Ulis would be enough Kentucky connection for Cousins to want to come in and stay.

Cmon, Davis going down and what really happened (Him pulling his groin muscle) are two entirely different things. Yes, he's going to miss some games, but lets not act like he is done for the season and winning is now a lost cause for them.

[thamadkant]

AD went down and Pelicans struggling... so they may want to cash in the chips for Cousins and "tank"


I think McD will try to trade for Cousins and Monroe's contract along with picks will be whats on the table.

Maybe, Len, Monroe, Heat Pick, Bucks Pick for Cousins and filler



Suns have no room to sign FA stars in 2018 FA period....

I can see them also try to trade one of Chriss or Bender for backup PG.
I believe Knight is actually going to be the main man at the 1 spot... McD believed in him... now with the spot open, I think Knight, Booker, Ulis would be enough Kentucky connection for Cousins to want to come in and stay.

Cmon, Davis going down and what really happened (Him pulling his groin muscle) are two entirely different things. Yes, he's going to miss some games, but lets not act like he is done for the season and winning is now a lost cause for them.

Pelicans are at 11/10 and a few teams nibbling behind them. With AD down even 5 games (likely), they will slide.
Cousins may pick up the drop off but their team is still build to be a fringe playoff team.


The timeline is a marketing buzz word for the team since its very young, but the problem with a team with young players and no defined roles and encouraged to "just play hard", it means they are competing for minutes and spotlight and in essence players play for themselves.

Suns need 4 young players and the rest veterans competing... I think getting someone like Cousins gives Suns a 4 man combo of Booker, Cousins, Warren and... Knight (believe it or not lol), whilst Bender, Chriss and Jackson develop and focus on specialties.

[bigfoot]

Chriss gained weight this offseason in a bad way

https://tinyurl.com/ycpknwwn

[Kerrsed]

Chriss gained weight this offseason in a bad way

https://tinyurl.com/ycpknwwn

Funny how they follow that story up with a Kyrie Irving update.

[Saberestar]

I'm surprised so many people are down on Bender already. What is he at now? 50 games? At the very least he's already a 3 and D guy that can defend 1-5. How many of those are there in the NBA? I bet we could count them on 1 hand.

The problem is that his defense is not that good. He is an OK defender, better than Chriss, but he can not defend 1-5...his defense is more a legend than reality.

I would love to have an all around defender on the team for real, someone like PJ Tucker was, but Bender can not matchup well with so many players. He needs to be more agressive and use his size.

[Damkac]

Yeah brogdon has now been made redundant after the bledsoe aquisition. They should've just traded him to us and they desperately need a center which is why they are more than happy to give up both brogdon and henson for DJ.

Bledsoe+Chandler for Brogdon+Monroe+Teletovic/Delly would made so much sense

[NavLDO]

I like Len. There, I said it.

**** just got real boys. Let's not forget our boy sauce simmering on the bench, 17/14 on 51% compared to Lens 14/14 per 36 on 48%....how you shoot 48% when you are literally the tallest human being in the building every night I dunno.

Because unlike Chandler's career 84% of FG coming from within 3 FT, Len's Career % is 51% of his shots are from within 3 FT. The other half of his shots actually take some amount of skill, which also why his FT% is nearly 8pts higher than Tyson as well. Hell, Len's %s closer mimic that of a PF than a Center.

The Question you should be asking is, why hasn't Len been developed consistently???

You take the good with the bad...but don't worry, Len's gone soon, but we'll still have Chandler...yay...