2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation

[Slim Charless]

$60m a year for a dude averaging 17ppg you can't make this up. Unreal.

Don't forget that he's well into his 30s

[Ghost of Kleine]

It's funny, but more sad and frustrating really though how badly our front office is mishandling this whole Beal situation and the absurd amount of pride-induced self-delusion and reckless negligence they're operating under in thinking that they can just pivot into another bad situation and somehow keep moving forward thinking it will work itself out somehow in a successful manner.

It's honestly tantamount to riding a roller coaster with bags full of nitroglycerin and dynamite while drunk and telling each other that everything will be ok if they can just make it through the ride so they can hurry next to the bumper cars!!

And ironically enough, the one saving grace in all of this is the FACT being overlooked that Beal has a NO TRADE CLAUSE and unless he approves a trade, there really is no deal to be made. And virtually no other team appears to want him. He's said that he and his family like it here and that he holds all the cards!!!! Meaning that realistically, the only teams he's actually willing to be traded to are:

1- Miami Heat.
Who have repeatedly made it clear that they don't want him and won't take him.

2- LA Lakers.
Don't want him at all, But have been really struggling lately. But would have to gut their depth just to add him because they're not going to give up Lebron or AD.

3- LA Clippers.
Don't want him at all, and would also have to gut their team just to add him. And honestly, Powell is playing just as well as Beal lately a a fraction of the cost, so that position isn't even a need for them.

4- Denver.
Denver won't want him and absolutely doesn't need him as he'd be redundant with Murray and is arguably worse with a much worse contract. And Beal is a worse contract than Porter Jr too.

******* Teams not mentioned but in California.
Golden State.
The Warriors don't want any big, long-term salaries coming in. They put out that they didn't want Butler (because of the cost/ extension). And if they don't want Butler because of his contract price, They sure as heck don't want anything to do with Beal and his worst contract in the entire league.

Sacramento.
Maybe????? They might consider Beal IF they actually trade Fox. But right now they're doing much better than us and could possibly make the playoffs and figure things out just as easily and keep Fox. So they currently have zero incentive to trade for Beal.

And the Suns brass first lets reports get out that they're moving Beal to the bench to incentivize him to waive his "no-trade" clause. But then backtracks shortly after by sending out reports that the bench move was really only in an attempt to jumpstart the offense for us and get him to be more aggressive. This speaks to really having no discernible plan or direction at all and that they're just randomly throwing things against the wall to see what sticks hopefully.

The best and most realistic and RESPONSIBLE decision our front office and OWNER could make at this point would be to let KD and Booker know that they have conceded to finally blow it all up and rebuild! And just keep Beal on the bench playing the role of 6th man extraordinaire as a response to him not being willing to waive his no-trade clause and put the teams' needs above his own. He likes it so much, he can stay here throughout a rebuild in a diminished role. But moving KD and Book is realistically the only recourse left after recklessly and overzealously giving away all of our assets to the point of not being able to make any legitimate moves to try and fix this roster.

[DirtyDez]

Who controls our 2026 pick/swap, Brooklyn or Houston? The traded picks page on this site is insane.

I would pull the trigger on a KD to Houston deal right now. Get Jabari and Cam Whitmore plus our picks in 25’/27’. Bottom out the rest of this year and look to move Book this summer for a bigger haul. We’re probably stuck with Beal until he’s expiring. Grayson might get a 1st if we take back on contract. Tyus could get a 2nd.

[bwgood77]

Spoiler:

It's funny, but more sad and frustrating really though how badly our front office is mishandling this whole Beal situation and the absurd amount of pride-induced self-delusion and reckless negligence they're operating under in thinking that they can just pivot into another bad situation and somehow keep moving forward thinking it will work itself out somehow in a successful manner.

It's honestly tantamount to riding a roller coaster with bags full of nitroglycerin and dynamite while drunk and telling each other that everything will be ok if they can just make it through the ride so they can hurry next to the bumper cars!!

And ironically enough, the one saving grace in all of this is the FACT being overlooked that Beal has a NO TRADE CLAUSE and unless he approves a trade, there really is no deal to be made. And virtually no other team appears to want him. He's said that he and his family like it here and that he holds all the cards!!!! Meaning that realistically, the only teams he's actually willing to be traded to are:

1- Miami Heat.
Who have repeatedly made it clear that they don't want him and won't take him.

2- LA Lakers.
Don't want him at all, But have been really struggling lately. But would have to gut their depth just to add him because they're not going to give up Lebron or AD.

3- LA Clippers.
Don't want him at all, and would also have to gut their team just to add him. And honestly, Powell is playing just as well as Beal lately a a fraction of the cost, so that position isn't even a need for them.

4- Denver.
Denver won't want him and absolutely doesn't need him as he'd be redundant with Murray and is arguably worse with a much worse contract. And Beal is a worse contract than Porter Jr too.

******* Teams not mentioned but in California.
Golden State.
The Warriors don't want any big, long-term salaries coming in. They put out that they didn't want Butler (because of the cost/ extension). And if they don't want Butler because of his contract price, They sure as heck don't want anything to do with Beal and his worst contract in the entire league.

Sacramento.
Maybe????? They might consider Beal IF they actually trade Fox. But right now they're doing much better than us and could possibly make the playoffs and figure things out just as easily and keep Fox. So they currently have zero incentive to trade for Beal.

And the Suns brass first lets reports get out that they're moving Beal to the bench to incentivize him to waive his "no-trade" clause. But then backtracks shortly after by sending out reports that the bench move was really only in an attempt to jumpstart the offense for us and get him to be more aggressive. This speaks to really having no discernible plan or direction at all and that they're just randomly throwing things against the wall to see what sticks hopefully.

The best and most realistic and RESPONSIBLE decision our front office and OWNER could make at this point would be to let KD and Booker know that they have conceded to finally blow it all up and rebuild! And just keep Beal on the bench playing the role of 6th man extraordinaire as a response to him not being willing to waive his no-trade clause and put the teams' needs above his own. He likes it so much, he can stay here throughout a rebuild in a diminished role. But moving KD and Book is realistically the only recourse left after recklessly and overzealously giving away all of our assets to the point of not being able to make any legitimate moves to try and fix this roster.

Although the Beal no trade clause could prevent a deal, I still think that it's far more likely the main problem in getting a deal done is finding a team that wants Beal enough to give up enough to satisfy what Miami wants. I am guessing we would have to send Dunn and our 31st to MIami in a second smaller trade and then Beal to some team that would give a few expensive vets to Miami that they feel rounds out their team well enough to keep competing.

I still also think that there may be teams out there that are willing to do it like Toronto did with Kawhi knowing there is a good chance he won't re-sign if they feel Butler is enough to give them a good chance at seriously contending, even if they know he won't re-sign there. A team with a ton of assets like Memphis. They were prepared to give up 4 firsts for Bridges. They have a ton of players. I think they would be willing to give up Smart, a first and filler for Butler. And they would also know that if Butler wants another big contract, his best chance of getting one would be through a S&T from them this summer. And they could at least get something back.

I also think Miami might like the idea of getting Smart to round out their guard rotation, along with maybe another decent player and a pick. Kind of like SA was ok getting DeRozan and one pick for Kawhi, who had WAY more value than Butler.

To add, I SERIOUSLY doubt if Butler went somewhere like Memphis he would dog it being an upcoming pending FA.

I actually kind of hope Memphis does go for him to make the west more interesting. If I was a Memphis fan I'd feel the same, even given the risks. I'd love where the team is but I think they can afford to take the risks. It also helps cover them a little bit if Ja is out some with injury.

[dremill24]

Who controls our 2026 pick/swap, Brooklyn or Houston? The traded picks page on this site is insane.

I would pull the trigger on a KD to Houston deal right now. Get Jabari and Cam Whitmore plus our picks in 25’/27’. Bottom out the rest of this year and look to move Book this summer for a bigger haul. We’re probably stuck with Beal until he’s expiring. Grayson might get a 1st if we take back on contract. Tyus could get a 2nd.

'26 we basically get the worst of PHX, WAS, ORL, MEM. They horcruxed the hell out of it (same w/ '28). They're so tied up in swaps of swaps of swaps it's best to just wave goodbye lol

[bwgood77]

Who controls our 2026 pick/swap, Brooklyn or Houston? The traded picks page on this site is insane.

I would pull the trigger on a KD to Houston deal right now. Get Jabari and Cam Whitmore plus our picks in 25’/27’. Bottom out the rest of this year and look to move Book this summer for a bigger haul. We’re probably stuck with Beal until he’s expiring. Grayson might get a 1st if we take back on contract. Tyus could get a 2nd.

Washington or Memphis I believe. Basically if we are worse than either our pick is gone. Washington may end up keeping their own but Memphis will certainly agree to the swap.

The swap we owe Washington for Beal (at least the 26 one) wasn't a big deal because Washington is horrible, but when we also traded whatever pick we end up with in that swap to Memphis for more 2nds to trade (they made it sound smart but doesn't sound so smart now)....Memphis gets it. Washington will get the best pick, Memphis the next best pick and us the worst. Same holds true in 2028 and 2030 I believe. 2030 has Memphis involved like this one. 2028 has Brooklyn and Washington....we get the worst of those 3. We had done the Brooklyn trade first.

So yeah, that's why it's even more important to get our 25, 27 and 29 picks back, because we will probably end up with Memphis' pick in 26 and I am not sure about 28. Brooklyn and Washington are rebuilding. They could all be ok picks...ours and both of those. Then 2030 the worst of us, Memphis and Washington.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Spoiler:

It's funny, but more sad and frustrating really though how badly our front office is mishandling this whole Beal situation and the absurd amount of pride-induced self-delusion and reckless negligence they're operating under in thinking that they can just pivot into another bad situation and somehow keep moving forward thinking it will work itself out somehow in a successful manner.

It's honestly tantamount to riding a roller coaster with bags full of nitroglycerin and dynamite while drunk and telling each other that everything will be ok if they can just make it through the ride so they can hurry next to the bumper cars!!

And ironically enough, the one saving grace in all of this is the FACT being overlooked that Beal has a NO TRADE CLAUSE and unless he approves a trade, there really is no deal to be made. And virtually no other team appears to want him. He's said that he and his family like it here and that he holds all the cards!!!! Meaning that realistically, the only teams he's actually willing to be traded to are:

1- Miami Heat.
Who have repeatedly made it clear that they don't want him and won't take him.

2- LA Lakers.
Don't want him at all, But have been really struggling lately. But would have to gut their depth just to add him because they're not going to give up Lebron or AD.

3- LA Clippers.
Don't want him at all, and would also have to gut their team just to add him. And honestly, Powell is playing just as well as Beal lately a a fraction of the cost, so that position isn't even a need for them.

4- Denver.
Denver won't want him and absolutely doesn't need him as he'd be redundant with Murray and is arguably worse with a much worse contract. And Beal is a worse contract than Porter Jr too.

******* Teams not mentioned but in California.
Golden State.
The Warriors don't want any big, long-term salaries coming in. They put out that they didn't want Butler (because of the cost/ extension). And if they don't want Butler because of his contract price, They sure as heck don't want anything to do with Beal and his worst contract in the entire league.

Sacramento.
Maybe????? They might consider Beal IF they actually trade Fox. But right now they're doing much better than us and could possibly make the playoffs and figure things out just as easily and keep Fox. So they currently have zero incentive to trade for Beal.

And the Suns brass first lets reports get out that they're moving Beal to the bench to incentivize him to waive his "no-trade" clause. But then backtracks shortly after by sending out reports that the bench move was really only in an attempt to jumpstart the offense for us and get him to be more aggressive. This speaks to really having no discernible plan or direction at all and that they're just randomly throwing things against the wall to see what sticks hopefully.

The best and most realistic and RESPONSIBLE decision our front office and OWNER could make at this point would be to let KD and Booker know that they have conceded to finally blow it all up and rebuild! And just keep Beal on the bench playing the role of 6th man extraordinaire as a response to him not being willing to waive his no-trade clause and put the teams' needs above his own. He likes it so much, he can stay here throughout a rebuild in a diminished role. But moving KD and Book is realistically the only recourse left after recklessly and overzealously giving away all of our assets to the point of not being able to make any legitimate moves to try and fix this roster.

Although the Beal no trade clause could prevent a deal, I still think that it's far more likely the main problem in getting a deal done is finding a team that wants Beal enough to give up enough to satisfy what Miami wants. I am guessing we would have to send Dunn and our 31st to MIami in a second smaller trade and then Beal to some team that would give a few expensive vets to Miami that they feel rounds out their team well enough to keep competing.

I still also think that there may be teams out there that are willing to do it like Toronto did with Kawhi knowing there is a good chance he won't re-sign if they feel Butler is enough to give them a good chance at seriously contending, even if they know he won't re-sign there. A team with a ton of assets like Memphis. They were prepared to give up 4 firsts for Bridges. They have a ton of players. I think they would be willing to give up Smart, a first and filler for Butler. And they would also know that if Butler wants another big contract, his best chance of getting one would be through a S&T from them this summer. And they could at least get something back.

I also think Miami might like the idea of getting Smart to round out their guard rotation, along with maybe another decent player and a pick. Kind of like SA was ok getting DeRozan and one pick for Kawhi, who had WAY more value than Butler.

To add, I SERIOUSLY doubt if Butler went somewhere like Memphis he would dog it being an upcoming pending FA.

I actually kind of hope Memphis does go for him to make the west more interesting. If I was a Memphis fan I'd feel the same, even given the risks. I'd love where the team is but I think they can afford to take the risks. It also helps cover them a little bit if Ja is out some with injury.

I agree with you on these points. My point though was that Bradley Beals' no-trade clause only exacerbates the situation because no tam receiving Beal wants to potentially be stuck with him like we are now because of that clause on top of his salary. And that's also the core issue of why it's near impossible to find a team (3rd team facilitator) to even consider taking Beal or giving up any value in a trade even as a facilitator. I also agree with you that I'd love to see Memphis get Butler as I think it'd set up a potential blockbuster showdown of the Thunder vs Grizzlies in the Western Conference finals.

Also, it'd save us from landing Butler and trying to continue this facade of contention while our mishaps, struggles, and collapses only further strengthen other teams at our expense and chains us to a multi-decade-long rebuild.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Read on Twitter

We're obviously underutilizing certain players on our roster! Some barely using at all.
We need to trade Jones for a first (he's absolutely worth that in the market) maybe not a great first but a decent late first probably. Then we should look to trade maybe Plumlee, Bol, D Lee (if possible for a 2nd or two??? And then quickly move on a trade for 1 or two of the center possibilities above!

For my part, some combination of:

1- Timelord/ Richards.
Timelord Starts and Richards backup 5? Nurkic 3rd string 5. Walker (POR- filler), Seth Curry (CHO- filler).
2- Valuncias/ Richards.
Valuncias (replaces Nurkic) maybe off the bench. And Richards starts (replaces Plumlee)?
3- Richards/ Sharpe.
Sharpe could be a more mobile shot-blocking version of Nurkic. Or a budget version of Bidatze. Hopefully, we could get Watford in the deal too for a bit more frontcourt size and scoring off the bench??
*** Plus fillers of course?

[Saberestar]

His role is just changed. He was 29 his last year in Washington, and the main difference coming to Phx is he gets far fewer shots/touches, though his efficiency went up. I mean someone's FGA had to be impacted, and it wasn't going to be KD and Book.

It's like comparing Book's stats on the Suns to his olympic stats and just saying "looks like he's not the same player anymore. He has to accept it."

It's not about his role, he can't carry an offense anymore.

I have been a fan of him for too many years and I know pretty well his game. I was excited about his acquisition but the truth is that he hasn't meet expectations. He was a relentless scorer and now he doesn't have the energy or the legs to do it.

He can’t create for him or his teammates consistently and that's why his shooting numbers and overall usage are down...it's not the other way.

But he is a Suns player yet so I would love to watch any type of improvement on his game.

I think he can create his own shot just fine and I think he is actually very good at getting to the rim, probably better than our other stars. However, sometimes his midrange game is on fire, and sometimes it's off. Same as Book this year actually.

I think one thing he tries too much which hurts his impact is he actually gets the ball in nice spots to Nurkic AND Plumlee...like as they are both rolling to the rim, but then the C messes it up and doesn't finish. While I think he may be theoretically either making the right play or at least what would normally be a good play to get someone involved, with these Cs, he should just finish himself.

But the guy, if he wasn't playing as a 3rd fiddle to Book and KD, would still be close to 25 ppg.

His shots are way down and he s still over 19ppg, and that is leaving a couple games early. I get he is disappointing often, but he still can score...most all players are pretty inconsistent except a guy like KD. And he has put a lot more effort on defense this year than in the past. I know he's an easy scapegoat for everyone but it's a little more complicated than that. Last year our team played really well when all 3 of them were playing, and went 34-18 after he came back from back issues. This year he is down a little bit on offense (though playing better D), but Book is down a lot on offense as well. And I think adding Tyus, even though he has been playing well, was probably something in hindsight, we didn't really need, and needed more defense than offensive initiation in the starting unit.

Back to not being able to carry the offense anymore. He could never carry the offense by himself on a good team. He could get to the 2nd round when playing with another solid player and decent cast like Booker could, but Booker obviously could never carry a team by himself either.

This is a team thing. And really, I think C is our weak spot. I do think both Beal and Book have off games. Book is the better overall player on offense, but his offense (at least shooting) is really down overall. And his defense is back kind of to where it was a few years ago.

He averages 17.8 ppg, 3.5 boards and 3.2 assists. 49/39/77

He is shooting 14.4 FGs per game and he doesn't go to the FTL, just 2.1 attempts per game.He has no burst to create space for his shooting and create advantages in offense like in the past, it's crystal clear for most basketball people.

He has had every opportunity to be "vintage Beal" here, in too many games we have missed KD or Book...but he can't do it anymore. Good player yet but VASTLY OVERPAID.

If he would be as good as you believe we wouldn't have any problem to trade him (or we wouldn't want to trade him) attaching a FRP or a few 2nds...but he has regressed and that makes his contract worse that it was one season and half ago.

[TeamTragic]

Read on Twitter

We're obviously underutilizing certain players on our roster! Some barely using at all.
We need to trade Jones for a first (he's absolutely worth that in the market) maybe not a great first but a decent late first probably. Then we should look to trade maybe Plumlee, Bol, D Lee (if possible for a 2nd or two??? And then quickly move on a trade for 1 or two of the center possibilities above!

Vuc/Val in the mix for the Suns.

[Qwigglez]

$60m a year for a dude averaging 17ppg you can't make this up. Unreal.

I'd actually prefer a 2-year deal worth $121 million as opposed to a 3-year deal worth that same amount. We don't have to worry about aggregating salaries in a potential trade as Butler makes as much as an entire team

[Qwigglez]

Vuc/Val in the mix for the Suns.

Can even add Saddiq Bey into the mix if the Wizards wanted to unload a little bit more salary.

[Saberestar]

$60m a year for a dude averaging 17ppg you can't make this up. Unreal.

I'd actually prefer a 2-year deal worth $121 million as opposed to a 3-year deal worth that same amount. We don't have to worry about aggregating salaries in a potential trade as Butler makes as much as an entire team

It seems that Perkins wanted to say a 2-year deal worth $112M.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Vuc/Val in the mix for the Suns.

Can even add Saddiq Bey into the mix if the Wizards wanted to unload a little bit more salary.

True! I'd want back Valuncias/ Bey/ Baldwin for Nurk/ 2 2nds.
I like Baldwin because he's a 6'9 mobile, lanky wing/forward with high-end shooting potential but suspect defense. Kind of a dollar-store version of MPJ. Not a bad gt (project) for KD to work with??

[Ghost of Kleine]

Read on Twitter

[Ghost of Kleine]

Read on Twitter

[TeamTragic]

Read on Twitter

Moving Nurkic/Beal and adding Butler/Vuc or Val.

[Calvin Klein]

Read on Twitter

He just says a bunch of words that mean absolutely nothing. Just like Matty.

[dremill24]

Vuc/Val in the mix for the Suns.

Can even add Saddiq Bey into the mix if the Wizards wanted to unload a little bit more salary.

The Wizards just signed Bey this summer to a multi-year deal knowing he had just torn his ACL and was going to be out quite a while. Seems unlikely they'd be looking to offload him at this point.

[dremill24]

I'm sure they're just trying to get draft equity to send out in a Butler deal for him but I wonder if Golden State might be a Grayson Allen team, especially if they miss out on Cam Johnson. Nobody outside Steph/Buddy can shoot on that team. Might be able to snag Looney or Anderson for the front court. Or filler and a pick to route to a 3rd team for help up front.