2019 Draft Discussion - Suns with 6th pick!

[Wilber85]

I’m going to say it every day !

Clarke is trash, and so is Culver !

We need to take Garland or trade the pick !

[bwgood77]

Check out the Suns draft lottery rep on this Game of Zones episode....part starts at 1:00 and shows are rep at 1:10...then are rep makes another move around between 2-2:15....right around 2:05

Watch on YouTube

[alamin330]

I’m going to say it every day !

Clarke is trash, and so is Culver !

We need to take Garland or trade the pick !

I think Clarke is trash. I don’t know about culver but I wouldn’t be excited about him.

[Barkley6]

Looks highly likely Darius Garland is going to be a Suns player. The top two are pretty much set in stone at this point (though if Memphis inexplicably passes on Morant, PHX should do everything to move up for him). The Knicks, Lakers, and Cleveland do not need PGs. If the Lakers take Garland, that's fine, because it more or less guarantees Lonzo is getting traded to the Suns.

Looks like no matter how this draft shakes out, Suns will leave with a PG. *shrug*

[lilfishi22]

Heart and intangibles is hard to quantify even though I see it in action and while I agree that he seems to have loads of that, there are plenty of dirt workers in the NBA who have made a career of just having heart, intangibles and just generally being a smart basketball player but never become more than that. I'm not saying having those intangibles and smarts mean nothing but the NBA is still overwhelmingly an athletes game and having below average size, length and strength even with all the aforementioned intangibles, will still be a potentially limiting factor for him in the NBA. Had he been 19 or 20 with room to grow, I would be a lot more comfortable with his projections but at 23, you could say he's probably pretty close to his ceiling when it comes to adding size and strength.

Athletically, I think he's very athletic (I'm fine with considering him elite) but when you don't have the size and strength, it does mitigate a lot of what that athleticism normally brings. He does have an elite touch around the rim though but without some range, it's not worth a ton in my books. Yes, I'm a little more skeptical about his ability to develop a reliable J than you.

Check this out:

https://runrepeat.com/height-evolution-in-the-nba

Average PF/Cs are getting smaller and A LOT lighter over the past few years.

I agree that putting a Rodney Hood-physique to play big men position might be too much of a stretch, but his relative size/strength is less of an issue than it was a while ago.

It will all boil down on how his shooting in the workouts comes along. If he's hitting long shots consistently, he'll be considered a safer bet.

I definitely understand that the big men of today in general are smaller and lighter and back to basket bangers are virtually extinct. But 207lbs is still 207lbs. If you can get bumped off by a 220-240lb wing, that's gonna be a problem. IMO his size and strength HAS to be a consideration. His weakside defense will be there and he'll block shots that way but if we're talking about putting a body in the paint to stop drives, I'm not so sure Clarke has that length, size or strength.

Maybe he can build on it with an NBA S&C program but he's going to be 23 and it's entirely possible that he's done growing at this stage.

[bwgood77]

I like Garland in theory, but it's pretty scary that he played in 5 games or so. He's basically coming out of high school, so he will likely be a pretty big project at the nba level after sitting out a year after playing high school ball.

He was the 17th rated prospect too and has only risen because so many others disappointed in their freshman year. Theoretically the shooting sounds great, but it's all going to be a big roll of the dice based on a workout without ever playing much against real competition.

Class rankings coming out of high school.

https://n.rivals.com/prospect_rankings/rivals150/2018

[lilfishi22]

Every time I see Tacos measurements I laugh. I really hope he makes a team just for the pure lols

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Saw someone on Twitter suggest we draft Bol at #6 and Tacko at #32, so this could be the Official Tacko Bol draft.

No!!!

I demand the Magic draft both! They must continue the Hammond tradition of drafting longboi's! A starting 5 with no wingspan shorter than 7'2 (sorry Clarke )

[WeekapaugGroove]

I like Garland in theory, but it's pretty scary that he played in 5 games or so. He's basically coming out of high school, so he will likely be a pretty big project at the nba level after sitting out a year after playing high school ball.

He was the 17th rated prospect too and has only risen because so many others disappointed in their freshman year. Theoretically the shooting sounds great, but it's all going to be a big roll of the dice based on a workout without ever playing much against real competition.

Class rankings coming out of high school.

https://n.rivals.com/prospect_rankings/rivals150/2018

He's a guy that's been in the high level high school and AAU scene since he was 14 so there's been a decent amount of scouting on him by NBA teams. Kyrie barley played at Duke and went 1.

No I do agree that he might have benefited by not having tape to tear him down and he's getting a bump because it's a pretty bad draft class because it's a bad freshman class. But then again it could have went the other way too and had he played well at vandy he might be going 2.

He's smart for going out this year because next year's PG class is looking stacked.


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[bwgood77]

I like Garland in theory, but it's pretty scary that he played in 5 games or so. He's basically coming out of high school, so he will likely be a pretty big project at the nba level after sitting out a year after playing high school ball.

He was the 17th rated prospect too and has only risen because so many others disappointed in their freshman year. Theoretically the shooting sounds great, but it's all going to be a big roll of the dice based on a workout without ever playing much against real competition.

Class rankings coming out of high school.

https://n.rivals.com/prospect_rankings/rivals150/2018

He's a guy that's been in the high level high school and AAU scene since he was 14 so there's been a decent amount of scouting on him by NBA teams. Kyrie barley played at Duke and went 1.

No I do agree that he might have benefited by not having tape to tear him down and he's getting a bump because it's a pretty bad draft class because it's a bad freshman class. But then again it could have went the other way too and had he played well at vandy he might be going 2.

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Kyrie was #1 in his class though. Garland was not that high on boards to start the year. He literally rose because everyone else disappointed. Now that still could make him a default good guy, and in theory, given that he projects kind of like a Kyrie/Lillard type, maybe he will be a stud, but it's still a big gamble based on not a lot of information.

Remember that AAU circuit was full of guys who stunk it up this year. So many of the top guys are not freshmen....Ja, Hunter, Culver, etc...most of the other freshmen outside of Zion and I guess RJ faltered.

[WeekapaugGroove]

I like Garland in theory, but it's pretty scary that he played in 5 games or so. He's basically coming out of high school, so he will likely be a pretty big project at the nba level after sitting out a year after playing high school ball.

He was the 17th rated prospect too and has only risen because so many others disappointed in their freshman year. Theoretically the shooting sounds great, but it's all going to be a big roll of the dice based on a workout without ever playing much against real competition.

Class rankings coming out of high school.

https://n.rivals.com/prospect_rankings/rivals150/2018

He's a guy that's been in the high level high school and AAU scene since he was 14 so there's been a decent amount of scouting on him by NBA teams. Kyrie barley played at Duke and went 1.

No I do agree that he might have benefited by not having tape to tear him down and he's getting a bump because it's a pretty bad draft class because it's a bad freshman class. But then again it could have went the other way too and had he played well at vandy he might be going 2.

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Kyrie was #1 in his class though. Garland was not that high on boards to start the year. He literally rose because everyone else disappointed. Now that still could make him a default good guy, and in theory, given that he projects kind of like a Kyrie/Lillard type, maybe he will be a stud, but it's still a big gamble based on not a lot of information.

Remember that AAU circuit was full of guys who stunk it up this year. So many of the top guys are not freshmen....Ja, Hunter, Culver, etc...most of the other freshmen outside of Zion and I guess RJ faltered.

You're not wrong. I don't expect him to drop though. From everything I've read about him I think he's going to kill it in interviews, he's by all accounts a super mature high character young man. Hell also probably shoot the lights out in empty gyms.

What do you think of White? He's another dude who really rose up the rankings. He's funky but I kind of like him.

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[bwgood77]

He's a guy that's been in the high level high school and AAU scene since he was 14 so there's been a decent amount of scouting on him by NBA teams. Kyrie barley played at Duke and went 1.

No I do agree that he might have benefited by not having tape to tear him down and he's getting a bump because it's a pretty bad draft class because it's a bad freshman class. But then again it could have went the other way too and had he played well at vandy he might be going 2.

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Kyrie was #1 in his class though. Garland was not that high on boards to start the year. He literally rose because everyone else disappointed. Now that still could make him a default good guy, and in theory, given that he projects kind of like a Kyrie/Lillard type, maybe he will be a stud, but it's still a big gamble based on not a lot of information.

Remember that AAU circuit was full of guys who stunk it up this year. So many of the top guys are not freshmen....Ja, Hunter, Culver, etc...most of the other freshmen outside of Zion and I guess RJ faltered.

You're not wrong. I don't expect him to drop though. From everything I've read about him I think he's going to kill it in interviews, he's by all accounts a super mature high character young man. Hell also probably shoot the lights out in empty gyms.

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I agree. I will be surprised if he is there when we pick. It's just an interesting predicament that a guy can probably benefit from being injured and out the year. I don't think he'd be any higher on boards if he played.

[darealjuice]

Read on Twitter

I thought this was interesting. Reddish has all of the tools in the world, but to call his season a Duke disappointing would be a bit of an understatement. He really didn't even step up to fill the gap when Zion was out toward the end of the regular season. I'm sure he'll look good in open gym workouts though.

Not sure if I remember a prospect where I like the idea of what he should be so much but hate the actual player that he was.

I was high on him early but he's pretty much off my board after actually playing.

If I were Atlanta and he was sitting there I'd be tempted to grab him and hope his freshman year was an fluke.
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Yup I was excited to see him on that Duke team, but he just faded into the background most games. It probably wasn't a good fit for him since he was relegated to a spot-up shooter role with RJ at Duke, but he didn't step up when the opportunity was there either.

[kennydorglas]

When I saw Reddish stats in Duke, I couldnt believe.
This guy destroyed every NYBL event.

It's probably a fluke, and I can definitely understand someone taking a chance on him.

Spoiler:

He's a 11.

[Revived]

He's a guy that's been in the high level high school and AAU scene since he was 14 so there's been a decent amount of scouting on him by NBA teams. Kyrie barley played at Duke and went 1.

No I do agree that he might have benefited by not having tape to tear him down and he's getting a bump because it's a pretty bad draft class because it's a bad freshman class. But then again it could have went the other way too and had he played well at vandy he might be going 2.

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Kyrie was #1 in his class though. Garland was not that high on boards to start the year. He literally rose because everyone else disappointed. Now that still could make him a default good guy, and in theory, given that he projects kind of like a Kyrie/Lillard type, maybe he will be a stud, but it's still a big gamble based on not a lot of information.

Remember that AAU circuit was full of guys who stunk it up this year. So many of the top guys are not freshmen....Ja, Hunter, Culver, etc...most of the other freshmen outside of Zion and I guess RJ faltered.

You're not wrong. I don't expect him to drop though. From everything I've read about him I think he's going to kill it in interviews, he's by all accounts a super mature high character young man. Hell also probably shoot the lights out in empty gyms.

What do you think of White? He's another dude who really rose up the rankings. He's funky but I kind of like him.

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Thing with Garland is that we can't overlook the Rich Paul angle. Every semi decent basketball player that's with Klutch has a diva personality.

Garland is a nice kid now, (much like KD was too early in his career) but there's little doubt that Klutch won't influence him eventually.

[bwgood77]

He's a guy that's been in the high level high school and AAU scene since he was 14 so there's been a decent amount of scouting on him by NBA teams. Kyrie barley played at Duke and went 1.

No I do agree that he might have benefited by not having tape to tear him down and he's getting a bump because it's a pretty bad draft class because it's a bad freshman class. But then again it could have went the other way too and had he played well at vandy he might be going 2.

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Kyrie was #1 in his class though. Garland was not that high on boards to start the year. He literally rose because everyone else disappointed. Now that still could make him a default good guy, and in theory, given that he projects kind of like a Kyrie/Lillard type, maybe he will be a stud, but it's still a big gamble based on not a lot of information.

Remember that AAU circuit was full of guys who stunk it up this year. So many of the top guys are not freshmen....Ja, Hunter, Culver, etc...most of the other freshmen outside of Zion and I guess RJ faltered.

You're not wrong. I don't expect him to drop though. From everything I've read about him I think he's going to kill it in interviews, he's by all accounts a super mature high character young man. Hell also probably shoot the lights out in empty gyms.

What do you think of White? He's another dude who really rose up the rankings. He's funky but I kind of like him.

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About White...not sure. Honestly I'll be surprised if he's ever a starter, especially an average one. Garland MAYBE but so much unknown. Next year's PG class seems loads better and deeper. Kind if hate reaching for need too much. But I really haven't looked into him too much.

[Blonde]

The 4th pick will either be Culver or Garland depending on who LAL trade their pick to - or if they trade it at all. I’m going back and forth on if I would rather take Culver or Garland so i just hope one of them is available. Heart says Garland, head says Culver.

I think Reddish has a strong chance to go 5th to Cleveland. I’ve seen Hunter mocked here but he feels like a guy who could slip a few spots. Then again, he would be the best player available to contribute right away to a Lebron led Lakers team in the playoffs so he could go as high as 4th if they can’t find a trade they want.

[GreatSunnyNorth]

No, that's when you make bad trades. If there is a good trade to be made for the pick, sure, but I will never advocate to just "trade the pick".

I like the Suns chances in trading for an established NBA veteran than drafting someone especially with how awful the Suns scouting is.

I'm cool trading the pick but the two obstacles I see are everyone views this draft as trash so I'm not sure teams are going to be lining up to trade good players for that pick. Plus lots of teams are shopping their picks right now.

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Trading for a vet would be a crap shoot. But as bad as the draft projects to be, some team picking later should fall in love with somebody who drops to 6, even if it’s based on a fluke workout. Might be best to test if somebody picking in the teens overestimates their future prospects (Orlando? Indiana? OKC?), and try to get a depth PF in that range plus a future 1st.

[WeekapaugGroove]

I like the Suns chances in trading for an established NBA veteran than drafting someone especially with how awful the Suns scouting is.

I'm cool trading the pick but the two obstacles I see are everyone views this draft as trash so I'm not sure teams are going to be lining up to trade good players for that pick. Plus lots of teams are shopping their picks right now.

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Trading for a vet would be a crap shoot. But as bad as the draft projects to be, some team picking later should fall in love with somebody who drops to 6, even if it’s based on a fluke workout. Might be best to test if somebody picking in the teens overestimates their future prospects (Orlando? Indiana? OKC?), and try to get a depth PF in that range plus a future 1st.

To tell you what I think of this draft I would trade 6 to OKC for Grant.

But yeah if anyone wanted to move up and give a useful vet or a future pick by all means make the deal

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[Ghost of Kleine]

Read on Twitter

I thought this was interesting. Reddish has all of the tools in the world, but to call his season a Duke disappointing would be a bit of an understatement. He really didn't even step up to fill the gap when Zion was out toward the end of the regular season. I'm sure he'll look good in open gym workouts though.

The Cleveland Cavaliers could be a nice match for him honestly.

[Walt_Uoob]

Four of my favorite Suns ever are Bo Outlaw, Louis Amundson, Shawn Marion, and TJ Warren. Brandon Clarke seems like a mashup of all of them: Warren's nose for the basket, Marion and Lou's athleticism, Lou and Bo's hustle and tenacity, and Bo's shot-blocking instincts. His shot and his overall potential are probably around the midpoint of all those guys too, which is a player who won't likely be an all-star but won't be disposable either, and will be an exciting fan-favorite type who contributes to wins without demanding the ball or the spotlight. I'll be very happy with that result out of this crapshoot draft, even at #6 if necessary.

So for today at least I'm back on the Clarke train. I don't care if his arms are pretty short. I'm even fine with basically bringing everyone else back and rolling with that team. Johnson-Booker-Oubre-Clarke-Ayton with TJ, JJ, Bender, Holmes, Okobo, Melton off the bench. I can root for that team for sure and think we'd make some playoff-bubble noise too.

All that said, these recent player development hires make me more okay with a project like Reddish too though.

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