Season Speculation, Free Agency & Trade Ideas: Our Johnson is finally working

[bwgood77]

I get questions about Ja, but who would you really take over him? He checks a lot of boxes at point guard. Great playmaker, great ball handler, gets to the paint and free throw line at will, and while his shot is questionable he's definitely not a non-shooter. He doesn't have the shooting that Trae had, but he's far more athletic than him and there's still reason to believe he can develop a shot considering he's a solid free throw shooter and shooting reasonably well from 3 on the season. I can understand RJ Barrett, but even then Ja is going to win people over if he shows up in the tournament like he did against Alabama and Auburn earlier this season. A year of Tyler Johnson hounding him every practice would be good for him too.

That's the thing...I don't know if there is someone I'd take over him. I love his court vision and ability to get to the line. I obviously will look into every guy a lot more after the season when we have like over 2 months of no Suns basketball.

[bwgood77]

You seem unusually high on Clarke.

Definitely higher than most. Not sure if I'm as high on him as the draft analysts who have him ranked 2nd, but it's understandable, given how high people are on Zion and the similar numbers across the board with better shot blocking. I just know we need a 4 and this draft is full of wings, and then Garland who there isn't much on, and Ja. I have little doubt our interior defensive and toughness would improve immensely with him.

I'd prefer to get him and Jrue or some other vet PG than just draft a guy like Ja. I think PG is the position you really need experience at if you want to be a good team.

Didn't you say you had him at #2?

Yeah, not sure why so many are sleeping on him. I mean people talk about Zion's stats being historically impressive, and I know I posted this before, but look at their comparisons...Clarke isn't that far off. I might actually take him 2nd. No one else is really wowing me, but admittedly I haven't watched a ton.

http://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=brandon-clarke--zion-williamson

I see him as more of a value guy if you take him outside the top 5 but to take him in the top 5 is a massive stretch imo. Even if that one guy at the Stepien is in love with him too.

Yeah, I said I "MIGHT" take him at 2. But I'm not sure...probably not but I might give it consideration.

Who's your top 5? I've seen a number of people have him really high though.

Read on Twitter

Right now, there are only two players who have posted a higher BPM than Clarke since the 2010-2011 season: Zion Williamson and Anthony Davis.

Per 40 minutes, Clarke is averaging 24.1 points, 12.2 rebounds, 4.5 blocks, 2.5 assists and 1.7 steals per game. He’s doing it while shooting 70.5 percent on two-point field goals. Take those numbers per 100 possessions, and no one has ever equaled them since sports-reference started its database.

Clarke is plastered all over the leaderboard for college basketball’s advanced metrics. A small sampling:

He’s second in the country in PER behind Williamson at 37.4
He’s second in the country in effective field goal percentage behind Williamson at 69.5 percent.
He’s first in the country in offensive rating and third in defensive rating.

Read on Twitter

[lilfishi22]

Definitely higher than most. Not sure if I'm as high on him as the draft analysts who have him ranked 2nd, but it's understandable, given how high people are on Zion and the similar numbers across the board with better shot blocking. I just know we need a 4 and this draft is full of wings, and then Garland who there isn't much on, and Ja. I have little doubt our interior defensive and toughness would improve immensely with him.

I'd prefer to get him and Jrue or some other vet PG than just draft a guy like Ja. I think PG is the position you really need experience at if you want to be a good team.

Didn't you say you had him at #2?

Yeah, not sure why so many are sleeping on him. I mean people talk about Zion's stats being historically impressive, and I know I posted this before, but look at their comparisons...Clarke isn't that far off. I might actually take him 2nd. No one else is really wowing me, but admittedly I haven't watched a ton.

http://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=brandon-clarke--zion-williamson

I see him as more of a value guy if you take him outside the top 5 but to take him in the top 5 is a massive stretch imo. Even if that one guy at the Stepien is in love with him too.

Yeah, I said I "MIGHT" take him at 2. But I'm not sure...probably not but I might give it consideration.

Who's your top 5? I've seen a number of people have him really high though.

Read on Twitter

I haven't thought that far yet so I've only got a top 3 that I'm happy with
1. Zion (obviously)
2. RJ
3. Morant

After that it's a bit of a role player ****show. I liked Reddish but he's be super underwhelming. I've seen Hachimura getting a lot more love recently but I'm not sold on him yet.

[bwgood77]

What would your thoughts be on the following scenario playing out?

We get the 3rd pick, Zion and Ja are gone, and there are not any trade options available with the pick to get us a truly legit PG or PF. Dallas does not luck out to jump top 4 (though they are certainly working there way into good odds with about a 35% chance of being in top 4 right now...not too much worse than us)...

So lets say we have the 3rd pick, Atlanta gets the 5th or 6th pick and Dallas gets like the 8th pick (which would then convey to Atlanta).

I doubt they would do it, but would you trade the 3rd pick (Barrett) for the 5th or 6th and 8th picks and take Garland and Clarke if possible?

[cberry78]

What would your thoughts be on the following scenario playing out?

We get the 3rd pick, Zion and Ja are gone, and there are not any trade options available with the pick to get us a truly legit PG or PF. Dallas does not luck out to jump top 4 (though they are certainly working there way into good odds with about a 35% chance of being in top 4 right now...not too much worse than us)...

So lets say we have the 3rd pick, Atlanta gets the 5th or 6th pick and Dallas gets like the 8th pick (which would then convey to Atlanta).

I doubt they would do it, but would you trade the 3rd pick (Barrett) for the 5th or 6th and 8th picks and take Garland and Clarke if possible?

I know this isn't directed at me, but in that scenario I think it would even be worth throwing the Bucks pick into the mix, 3 + Bucks pick for 5/6 + 8.

[Damkac]

What would your thoughts be on the following scenario playing out?

We get the 3rd pick, Zion and Ja are gone, and there are not any trade options available with the pick to get us a truly legit PG or PF. Dallas does not luck out to jump top 4 (though they are certainly working there way into good odds with about a 35% chance of being in top 4 right now...not too much worse than us)...

So lets say we have the 3rd pick, Atlanta gets the 5th or 6th pick and Dallas gets like the 8th pick (which would then convey to Atlanta).

I doubt they would do it, but would you trade the 3rd pick (Barrett) for the 5th or 6th and 8th picks and take Garland and Clarke if possible?

I would.

[Crives]

What would your thoughts be on the following scenario playing out?

We get the 3rd pick, Zion and Ja are gone, and there are not any trade options available with the pick to get us a truly legit PG or PF. Dallas does not luck out to jump top 4 (though they are certainly working there way into good odds with about a 35% chance of being in top 4 right now...not too much worse than us)...

So lets say we have the 3rd pick, Atlanta gets the 5th or 6th pick and Dallas gets like the 8th pick (which would then convey to Atlanta).

I doubt they would do it, but would you trade the 3rd pick (Barrett) for the 5th or 6th and 8th picks and take Garland and Clarke if possible?

Hard to judge Garland with the injury. If he is not an immediate impact high potential pg like JA is it worth giving him Meltons backup minutes?
I think there is good chance Clarke is available at 8, which means you could likely get Culver or Reddish at 5 which would be very interesting.

[lilfishi22]

What would your thoughts be on the following scenario playing out?

We get the 3rd pick, Zion and Ja are gone, and there are not any trade options available with the pick to get us a truly legit PG or PF. Dallas does not luck out to jump top 4 (though they are certainly working there way into good odds with about a 35% chance of being in top 4 right now...not too much worse than us)...

So lets say we have the 3rd pick, Atlanta gets the 5th or 6th pick and Dallas gets like the 8th pick (which would then convey to Atlanta).

I doubt they would do it, but would you trade the 3rd pick (Barrett) for the 5th or 6th and 8th picks and take Garland and Clarke if possible?

Tough tough decision.

I still think RJ is In the same tier as Morant but adding RJ would make our logjam at the wings issue worse even if we got rid of JJ. That said, I don't think I'd do it. Your trade would potentially add depth at two of our position of need but I don't really buy into their projections (starting level 1 and 4) right now.

I'm still in the take BPA lane. I think with JJ questionable as a core guy, TJ potentially being a good trade chip and Oubre playing some spot 4, I think you can add a guy like RJ to this team.

[King4Day]

I really feel that if we don't land the #1 pick, we won't keep it. Whether we move it for Holiday or Conley or someone else. Therefore, I don't care as much where we finish because there's only one pick that matters in the grand scheme of things.

[King4Day]

Every year we hear about guys who will become special. Brandon Clarke may or may not be good but we have heard the story before. Then, when a team picks him early, he becomes then next Jan Veasley or something like that

[bwgood77]

What would your thoughts be on the following scenario playing out?

We get the 3rd pick, Zion and Ja are gone, and there are not any trade options available with the pick to get us a truly legit PG or PF. Dallas does not luck out to jump top 4 (though they are certainly working there way into good odds with about a 35% chance of being in top 4 right now...not too much worse than us)...

So lets say we have the 3rd pick, Atlanta gets the 5th or 6th pick and Dallas gets like the 8th pick (which would then convey to Atlanta).

I doubt they would do it, but would you trade the 3rd pick (Barrett) for the 5th or 6th and 8th picks and take Garland and Clarke if possible?

Hard to judge Garland with the injury. If he is not an immediate impact high potential pg like JA is it worth giving him Meltons backup minutes?
I think there is good chance Clarke is available at 8, which means you could likely get Culver or Reddish at 5 which would be very interesting.

Well Garland was the clear cut #1 PG prospect before the season, and is apparently an elite shooter and a decent passer, though I don't have a real good idea. I was trying to read some on him last night, but not much out there. I know some analysts still have him higher than Ja though.

I've seen Lillard as a comp. Here is another write up.

A crafty scorer that carries the ball on a string; Darius Garland has the best ball handling package in the 2019 draft class. His dribbling does not only help him create his own shot, but it also enables him to find discrete passing lanes due to his elite pull up off the dribble. Garland has elite quickness, mixed with his Kemba-esque package that helps him to continue to keep defenders off balance.

The Nashville native is an elite three point shooter, particularly his pull-up off screens which are deadly. If you go under he will make you pay from deep and he has an array of ball handling moves to get him to his spots with ease. He’s got a smooth release that when mixed with his dribbling ability, makes him extremely hard to defend. That attributes to the space he is able to create. It’s especially discouraging for defenders when Garland is in a rhythm being that he is just one of the hardest guards to stay in front of in this upcoming class.

While Garland lacks elite size and strength, he is a very scrappy defender. Given his ability to score and distribute the ball, Garland has the potential to become the best guard to ever come from Vanderbilt to make it to the next level.

https://basketballsocietyonline.com/darius-garland-scouting-report

From Ben Rubin at stepien...

there are really two weapons which can make a player’s passing useful in the NBA, and even potentially allow it to improve:

One is preternatural athleticism and skill for size. Take Westbrook, Wade, Lebron, Rose, Oladipo or Durant as examples.

The other is dribbling skill and the pull-up jumper. Take Curry, Lowry, Kyrie, Isaiah Thomas or Doncic as examples. Though for sure, there is often some or a great deal of overlap between the two communities.

Garland fits into that latter group pretty neatly.

Basically talks about how being an elite shooter will create his passing lanes more than being more of a pass first guy, and that most or at least many PGs today are great shooters first.

[bwgood77]

What would your thoughts be on the following scenario playing out?

We get the 3rd pick, Zion and Ja are gone, and there are not any trade options available with the pick to get us a truly legit PG or PF. Dallas does not luck out to jump top 4 (though they are certainly working there way into good odds with about a 35% chance of being in top 4 right now...not too much worse than us)...

So lets say we have the 3rd pick, Atlanta gets the 5th or 6th pick and Dallas gets like the 8th pick (which would then convey to Atlanta).

I doubt they would do it, but would you trade the 3rd pick (Barrett) for the 5th or 6th and 8th picks and take Garland and Clarke if possible?

Tough tough decision.

I still think RJ is In the same tier as Morant but adding RJ would make our logjam at the wings issue worse even if we got rid of JJ. That said, I don't think I'd do it. Your trade would potentially add depth at two of our position of need but I don't really buy into their projections (starting level 1 and 4) right now.

I'm still in the take BPA lane. I think with JJ questionable as a core guy, TJ potentially being a good trade chip and Oubre playing some spot 4, I think you can add a guy like RJ to this team.

Well I think Barrett is considered the BPA at 2 anyway and we'd be going with Ja due primarily to need, and as you mention about projections being starting level 1 and 4 (didn't see that) I suppose you are saying Ja is also a projected immediate starter? Haven't seen that either. I wasn't thinking a player like him would be ready to start on day one. I think if we want to be really competitive to come out of the gates we wouldn't want to start him on day 1.

[bwgood77]

Every year we hear about guys who will become special. Brandon Clarke may or may not be good but we have heard the story before. Then, when a team picks him early, he becomes then next Jan Veasley or something like that

Most of those busts taken high are raw one year guys, or skinny Cs who need to develop. Not guys with multiple years in college and stats that are dominating college basketball as the player is leading one of the best teams in the country. I mean Duke was expected to dominate and maybe be undefeated and Clarke and Gonzaga went in there early and he comes out with 6 blocks, 7-10 from the field and 17 points, going against Zion as Gonzaga upset Duke.

It's not like Clarke is an unknown young inexperienced guy you are projecting and hoping he turns into something. With Garland you could make that case though.

[King4Day]

Every year we hear about guys who will become special. Brandon Clarke may or may not be good but we have heard the story before. Then, when a team picks him early, he becomes then next Jan Veasley or something like that

Most of those busts taken high are raw one year guys, or skinny Cs who need to develop. Not guys with multiple years in college and stats that are dominating college basketball as the player is leading one of the best teams in the country. I mean Duke was expected to dominate and maybe be undefeated and Clarke and Gonzaga went in there early and he comes out with 6 blocks, 7-10 from the field and 17 points, going against Zion as Gonzaga upset Duke.

It's not like Clarke is an unknown young inexperienced guy you are projecting and hoping he turns into something. With Garland you could make that case though.

Maybe Kaminsky is a better example. Granted, he wasn't seen as a highly touted prospect, but he was good enough that many teams were interested.
I don't watch enough college (none) to know.

I'm trying to see who will be in the area we can expect to pick.

Zion
Barratt
Morant
Reddish
Clarke

I'm sure there are other guys too. So it'll be good to have guys with potential around when we pick (which could be as late as 5-7).

[BobbieL]

What would your thoughts be on the following scenario playing out?

We get the 3rd pick, Zion and Ja are gone, and there are not any trade options available with the pick to get us a truly legit PG or PF. Dallas does not luck out to jump top 4 (though they are certainly working there way into good odds with about a 35% chance of being in top 4 right now...not too much worse than us)...

So lets say we have the 3rd pick, Atlanta gets the 5th or 6th pick and Dallas gets like the 8th pick (which would then convey to Atlanta).

I doubt they would do it, but would you trade the 3rd pick (Barrett) for the 5th or 6th and 8th picks and take Garland and Clarke if possible?

I think I like the idea of trading the pick if isn't Zion for a player and a future FRP. Or maybe attach Jackson to it for a player and FRP and gain 12-14m of cap space.

I am done with young players. That doesn't mean I am giving away just to give away. But the Suns do not need TWO more first round picks. They just don't.

And with Tyler playing the way he is - there is value to him on the roster so I think today, the Suns need to suck it up and just pay him. Bring back Oubre. Maybe Holmes

So that is 6m of cap space. If you can move Jackson and the non Zion FRP -- thats another 13 or 14m or so, net

With 20m - the Suns hopefully can get PG and PF. Granted, if Tyler is traded for Jrue, thats one thing. But otherwise - get a good competent PG and PF. I would like to see a bench of Tyler Johnson, Warren, Holmes and either Bridges or Oubre.

[WeekapaugGroove]

Every year we hear about guys who will become special. Brandon Clarke may or may not be good but we have heard the story before. Then, when a team picks him early, he becomes then next Jan Veasley or something like that

Most of those busts taken high are raw one year guys, or skinny Cs who need to develop. Not guys with multiple years in college and stats that are dominating college basketball as the player is leading one of the best teams in the country. I mean Duke was expected to dominate and maybe be undefeated and Clarke and Gonzaga went in there early and he comes out with 6 blocks, 7-10 from the field and 17 points, going against Zion as Gonzaga upset Duke.

It's not like Clarke is an unknown young inexperienced guy you are projecting and hoping he turns into something. With Garland you could make that case though.

Maybe Kaminsky is a better example. Granted, he wasn't seen as a highly touted prospect, but he was good enough that many teams were interested.
I don't watch enough college (none) to know.

I'm trying to see who will be in the area we can expect to pick.

Zion
Barratt
Morant
Reddish
Clarke

I'm sure there are other guys too. So it'll be good to have guys with potential around when we pick (which could be as late as 5-7).

In a vacuum kaminsky might have been a higher rated prospect but that was a better and deeper draft class. He was viewed as an elite offensive player coming out. His physical limitations on D always capped his overall upside though.

I like Clarke and actually don't view his age as a super negative because the suns could use someone ready to play now. But it does probably limited his upside a bit. But getting a good role player outside of the top 3 or so in this class might be a win. It's just not an inspiring group. That worries me a bit with potential trades because I'm not sure another team is going to be all that stoked to trade a good player for like the 5th pick.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using RealGM mobile app

[Frank Lee]

So.... I get the 'Ja in a weak conference' stuff... but outside of 3 big games... the Zags play a pretty patsy schedule too. Any concerns the success of Clark is against inferior athletes ?

meanwhile... there is a beast a brewing

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/player/_/id/4065660/mfiondu-kabengele

[BobbieL]

Most of those busts taken high are raw one year guys, or skinny Cs who need to develop. Not guys with multiple years in college and stats that are dominating college basketball as the player is leading one of the best teams in the country. I mean Duke was expected to dominate and maybe be undefeated and Clarke and Gonzaga went in there early and he comes out with 6 blocks, 7-10 from the field and 17 points, going against Zion as Gonzaga upset Duke.

It's not like Clarke is an unknown young inexperienced guy you are projecting and hoping he turns into something. With Garland you could make that case though.

Maybe Kaminsky is a better example. Granted, he wasn't seen as a highly touted prospect, but he was good enough that many teams were interested.
I don't watch enough college (none) to know.

I'm trying to see who will be in the area we can expect to pick.

Zion
Barratt
Morant
Reddish
Clarke

I'm sure there are other guys too. So it'll be good to have guys with potential around when we pick (which could be as late as 5-7).

In a vacuum kaminsky might have been a higher rated prospect but that was a better and deeper draft class. He was viewed as an elite offensive player coming out. His physical limitations on D always capped his overall upside though.

I like Clarke and actually don't view his age as a super negative because the suns could use someone ready to play now. But it does probably limited his upside a bit. But getting a good role player outside of the top 3 or so in this class might be a win. It's just not an inspiring group. That worries me a bit with potential trades because I'm not sure another team is going to be all that stoked to trade a good player for like the 5th pick.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using RealGM mobile app

The Suns are in a pretty tough spot because it doesn't look like the draft is that great. So the Suns do need to make it to the top 3 thats for sure so that if it isn't Zion it can be Barrett or Morant.

The more I see of Tyler Johnson - I do wonder what it would take for him to decline and the Suns to pay him 40/4 - which really is 3/21.

I also think Igor Kokoskov has to be back next year. The team is finding itself - it would be dumb to start all over again

Plus - he seems like the type of coach that will really critique every game, every decision and get better in year 2

[hollywood6964]

Every year we hear about guys who will become special. Brandon Clarke may or may not be good but we have heard the story before. Then, when a team picks him early, he becomes then next Jan Veasley or something like that

Most of those busts taken high are raw one year guys, or skinny Cs who need to develop. Not guys with multiple years in college and stats that are dominating college basketball as the player is leading one of the best teams in the country. I mean Duke was expected to dominate and maybe be undefeated and Clarke and Gonzaga went in there early and he comes out with 6 blocks, 7-10 from the field and 17 points, going against Zion as Gonzaga upset Duke.

It's not like Clarke is an unknown young inexperienced guy you are projecting and hoping he turns into something. With Garland you could make that case though.

Man how do you guys have the time to watch college, or even just the rest of the nba itself with any amount of consistency? I can barely watch the suns, n not just because they're trash, time.

[Crives]

What would your thoughts be on the following scenario playing out?

We get the 3rd pick, Zion and Ja are gone, and there are not any trade options available with the pick to get us a truly legit PG or PF. Dallas does not luck out to jump top 4 (though they are certainly working there way into good odds with about a 35% chance of being in top 4 right now...not too much worse than us)...

So lets say we have the 3rd pick, Atlanta gets the 5th or 6th pick and Dallas gets like the 8th pick (which would then convey to Atlanta).

I doubt they would do it, but would you trade the 3rd pick (Barrett) for the 5th or 6th and 8th picks and take Garland and Clarke if possible?

Hard to judge Garland with the injury. If he is not an immediate impact high potential pg like JA is it worth giving him Meltons backup minutes?
I think there is good chance Clarke is available at 8, which means you could likely get Culver or Reddish at 5 which would be very interesting.

Well Garland was the clear cut #1 PG prospect before the season, and is apparently an elite shooter and a decent passer, though I don't have a real good idea. I was trying to read some on him last night, but not much out there. I know some analysts still have him higher than Ja though.

I've seen Lillard as a comp. Here is another write up.

A crafty scorer that carries the ball on a string; Darius Garland has the best ball handling package in the 2019 draft class. His dribbling does not only help him create his own shot, but it also enables him to find discrete passing lanes due to his elite pull up off the dribble. Garland has elite quickness, mixed with his Kemba-esque package that helps him to continue to keep defenders off balance.

The Nashville native is an elite three point shooter, particularly his pull-up off screens which are deadly. If you go under he will make you pay from deep and he has an array of ball handling moves to get him to his spots with ease. He’s got a smooth release that when mixed with his dribbling ability, makes him extremely hard to defend. That attributes to the space he is able to create. It’s especially discouraging for defenders when Garland is in a rhythm being that he is just one of the hardest guards to stay in front of in this upcoming class.

While Garland lacks elite size and strength, he is a very scrappy defender. Given his ability to score and distribute the ball, Garland has the potential to become the best guard to ever come from Vanderbilt to make it to the next level.

https://basketballsocietyonline.com/darius-garland-scouting-report

From Ben Rubin at stepien...

there are really two weapons which can make a player’s passing useful in the NBA, and even potentially allow it to improve:

One is preternatural athleticism and skill for size. Take Westbrook, Wade, Lebron, Rose, Oladipo or Durant as examples.

The other is dribbling skill and the pull-up jumper. Take Curry, Lowry, Kyrie, Isaiah Thomas or Doncic as examples. Though for sure, there is often some or a great deal of overlap between the two communities.

Garland fits into that latter group pretty neatly.

Basically talks about how being an elite shooter will create his passing lanes more than being more of a pass first guy, and that most or at least many PGs today are great shooters first.

Thanks good read. So many decisions for the suns this summer.