Time to 'pull the plug' or Dr Jack, where are you?

[Frank Lee]

Nice thesis BigF. You get an 'A' for optimism. You certainly have been a steadfast supporter, but I'm done with this unfettered 'Me-Ball'. We have some very talented players individually, but they have no idea how to bring it together and make each other better. Thats how a team succeeds in this league. Collectively, they become better. Yeah, familiarity does have its advantages, but these guys are not students of the game. (since you mentioned him, I read Rondo studied so much game film that he knew the Mav playbook/system before game 1 with them, I think Dirk said he knew it better than half the squad)

Furthermore, I want to puke when these comparisons to other teams roll out. Lebron/Wade ? Ginobly/Parker ? Curry/Thompson ? Come on... these are guys who know how to play basketball while we have guys who know how to play street ball (ie...don't). If you want to force stats on us, how about the stats in losing games. How about backdoor hoops. How about assists that resulted in an uncontested shot. GD, didn't we have a game recently with 1 assist in the 1st half ??? In this pass and chuck offense, assists are miscued. How about the dreaded dribble dribble dribble pass rate? Better yet... check the important stat... butts in the seats. Lets be clear here... I am not mad nor raving to trade everyone and play the rooks. But I am not feathering the asscap of McDo anymore. He built this and its not complete. Honestly, I wouldn't even complain if it was brand of ball that was at least un-nauseating to watch.

My Theory???? I just don't think our Puzzle Pieces fit. Redo the off season and no way, if given the choice, does this FO secure both Bled and IT. We sign Bled out of the gate and our scheme is entirely different. This 3 dreaded hydra crap is a marketing ploy to mask the borderline inept off season. Pump it up to sell tickets. They had complete (forced?) corporation with the Coach to move forward with it as a high octane 'offensive scheme'. Feel the heat ???? What else could they do? $20+ million on two shoot first PGs. The talk of retooling while rebuilding ??? tough to retool when all you had was a hammer and a screw driver.

I am hoping it is only 'showcasing' until they can make a significant deal. But with the gauntlet of good teams over the next 10, the FO better have their own 'Bail out' plan. Never forget, it still, at least at this point, comes down $$ at the gate. The town wont follow a bunch of Me-boys.


Sorry gino... its more like Pop's Culture with me.

[RunDogGun]

It's fine to have a "shoot 'em if you got 'em" mentality if you have the players who can still be judicious enough to not do stupid **** at inopportune times. We had that during SSOL, for example.

We don't have those players now.

Mike would mostly bench the stupid ones, except Amare, he was too good of a finisher to bench.

Later when we had Hill, I was quite surprised that we didn't always have either Nash or Hill on the court at all times. It was my favorite part of last years team, having either Goran or Bledsoe on the court at all times. I think it was a good transition for Goran.

Even though we didn't change too many players, a lot has changed, guys are in new roles, some have new responsibilities. I don't think Jeff has caught up yet. If he lets it go too long and none of the main players take on a leadership role, it will be a struggling season.

We had to sign IT, we had no idea if Bledsoe would resign, and we knew Ish wasn't the backup point we needed. Ennis was an unknown, but coveted by other teams, so he was a smart pick. IT is also good enough to flip on a decent contract for what he produces. We are trying to field a competitive team while remaining flexible for deals that may arise.

Patience people, rebuilds take time. You can't be mad about our guys being competitive enough to be in the playoff race.

[Frank Lee]

Patience ??? really ? This is about a horrible style of play, even when it works.

Bring on some discipline. Cut at least one of the heads off. The problem is not the players.

[Revived]

Another bad thing about having chuckers on the court is

- Warren and Goodwin, tend to chuck or focus on putting points on the board too when they get minutes.
There are times I have my fingers crossed Goodwin will make the extra pass but because is exposed to Green, Thomas etc producing points through volume shooting, this tells him its "OK" to be this way.

Ennis is the only one who rather rotate the ball, even Len likes to make the pass.. sure he turns it over but when he gets better I can see him kicking out off double teams just fine..

You have to remember one thing...the Suns players KNOW that if they pass the ball, they won't get it back again. So I bet because of that, many of them ball hog on purpose.

Hornacek needs to change his system and take note from the Atlanta Hawks on ball movement.

[RunDogGun]

Patience ??? really ? This is about a horrible style of play, even when it works.

Bring on some discipline. Cut at least one of the heads off. The problem is not the players.

Are you suggesting Jeff's head needs to be cut, if the problem is not the players? Assistants? I think it's a learning curve for them as well. We accomplished so much last year with similar players, maybe guys are trying to do to much, and we need more KISS. "You want the best!"

[Frank Lee]

Heads of the 'hydra' is what I meant.

Sorry, I have had my fill of 'Tiny Ball' and the chuckfest. Our offense is a mess, and I don't think JH has command of the team. He has practically said so himself.

I think we have entered the place where we have to get worse to get better. Unless a big swap is made.

[BurningHeart]

The players are the problem but Hornacek has to play what he's got. That doesn't absolve him of blame. He's the coach and he needs to beat the **** out of people who consistently make horrendous decisions with the basketball.

[Revived]

The players are the problem but Hornacek has to play what he's got. That doesn't absolve him of blame. He's the coach and he needs to beat the **** out of people who consistently make horrendous decisions with the basketball.

Who do the Suns hold accountable? Who is responsible for the type of iso offense/ball hog offense that the Suns run? I think Hornacek needs to implement an offense which relies on passing and balance between inside scoring and outside scoring. If he doesn't know how to, let him contact Mike Budenholzer for advice. Hawks play in the East, I don't think they'll care if Hornacek call them for help.

Don't cater the offense to fit the ball hogs on our team. Create an offense that relies on ball movement and passing and THEN play the players who buy into that system.

[kennydorglas]

Just look at Rockets' offense.
It's a really ugly offense, but it's effective because they dont stop moving at all
The only one allowed to ISO is Harden. Everyone else is cutting like crazy and shooting 3's.

Of course they have an inside force in Howard, but he isnt the focus of their offense at all
In several times, he only post up to free up some shooter for 3.
Another aspect of their offense: THEY DONT SHOOT A MID J. NEVER.

If you wanna play a bad offense without any set plays, u better play like Houston.

[Frank Lee]

I was trying to think of the last 3 guard offense that lasted for any time period and the the ONLY one I could remember was these guys.




that was a long time ago, and two of the three were 'Famers". Who we kidding?

[bigfoot]

If you wanna play a bad offense without any set plays, u better play like Houston.

This is just plain wrong. There are plenty of set plays. I don't believe many people are watching the full game. When we get into half court situations people tend to watch the ball. Stop it!!! Start watching off the ball. Watch the picks being set and the amount of running done by Dragic and Green. Hell we post up Markieff just outside the key for many plays.

Frankie I'm not sure why you keep claiming the ISO ball is ugly. I mean Amare never faced up his man and then either 1) shot over him or 2) drove by him did he? I guess Nash must have assisted every shot ever made by Amare. Amare never played ISO ball for the Suns right? For goodness sake I don't believe Nash ever pounded the ball like Bledsoe or IT. I just don't recall watching the ball stick in Nash's hands for 20 seconds of a possession. He would have it for a just a few seconds and then make a glorious assist. Right? If Dragic was 6'6" nobody would be complaining about the three headed monster. Because then Dragic would be Joe Johnson 2.0.

Look I'm not saying all is well on the Suns court. But it certainly doesn't call for the Grim Reaper to come in and clean house again. Wright might be the solution to eliminating small ball. The FO recognized our bigs were not very good. Ryan McD went out and got someone who might be able to help. Up untll that point, Horny had little choice but to play Dragic, IT, Bledsoe, and/or Green. They are clearly better players than the remaining bigs (Plumlee, Randolph, Marcus) and should be in at crunch time. Let me say that again. Our backup bigs were Plumlee, Randolph, and Marcus. Marcus doesn't really count as a big (he's a tweener) and the other two are soon to be NBA castoffs. Other than Len and Markieff the Suns don't have other real big men. Now with Wright it is possible we have a three man rotation at PF/C. Honestly I think McD had a deal with Ainge the whole time to get Wright. Wright barely played at all in Boston. His minutes were way down compared to what he got in Dallas. And before we even think about pulling the plug I would waive Randolph and bring Earl Barron back from the D-league where he has been tearing it up (20pts/10rbs).

If Wright pans out then we have a solid rotation. If not then the FO deals with backup PF/C positions in the draft or FA periods next year.

[bigfoot]

I was trying to think of the last 3 guard offense that lasted for any time period and the the ONLY one I could remember was these guys.




that was a long time ago, and two of the three were 'Famers". Who we kidding?

Thomas/Dumars/Johnson ??

[gaspar]

Fun fact: the Suns are 5th in the league in Offensive Efficiency and are better on offense than the Spurs and Hawks, two teams everyone wants the Suns to copy.

[collidingNeurons]

havent been here in a long time but I've always liked your posts Frank,and this inst directed exclusively at you but I'm not sure what you all expected. This team isn't built to compete for a championship, it's built with the idea of developing and acquiring assets and seeing which ones are keepers and which ones are moved on for something else.

Less than 2 years ago we were in full tank mode, now we have a whole team and then some full of young assets, no super stars but some very good young talent on reasonable contracts.

I expect this to be the final year of asset collecting and after this year there will be some talent consolidation and shuffling, but i am not unhappy with the collection of misfits this team has accumulated, especially when you consider what we gave up to get them, an over rated Dudley and a second for Bledso, that's a steal no matter how you slice it, Green was a throw in on that trade, and we got him and Plumlee for an aging role player. and anyone not liking the chucker mentality of the Suns wanting to trade some of them for the ultimate get my own shot at all costs player in melo with his failing health should go be a knick fan instead. Len is the future of this team if he continues as he has so far this year and possibly bledso and or dragic the rest are potentially chips

I'm fine with the state of the team to this point, we arent winning a championship but we were expected to be the worst team in history a year and half ago now we have arguably some of the best collection of young talent in the league

[Frank Lee]

I don't think they (Thomas/Dumars/Johnson) played much together, and pretty certain they did not close out games with them. They certainly NEVER played tiny ball. Keep trying to defend this mistake. Oh... and two of them were HoF-ers too.

furthermore, Morris is not Amare, nobody is Nash, and Dragic is 6'4".

As far as house cleaning ? Abandoning this side show is hardly house cleaning. Face it, this tiny ball crap is the result of a mishmash mediocre off season. Once it was done, the FO had to save face with this gimmick offense while the marketing department greased it up to the fans.

[kennydorglas]

I was trying to think of the last 3 guard offense that lasted for any time period and the the ONLY one I could remember was these guys.




that was a long time ago, and two of the three were 'Famers". Who we kidding?

Steph-Klay-Jack played 1000 minutes in 2013 and some heavy minutes in playoffs too.

[gaspar]

Barea-Terry-Kidd won the chip for the Mavs a couple years ago.

[Revived]

I was trying to think of the last 3 guard offense that lasted for any time period and the the ONLY one I could remember was these guys.




that was a long time ago, and two of the three were 'Famers". Who we kidding?

Steph-Klay-Jack played 1000 minutes in 2013 and some heavy minutes in playoffs too.

Klay is a 6'7 SG.

I think Frank meant PGs.

[SlovenianDragon]

The worst thing we could do is trade a bunch of players for a win now move.

This is the 2nd year of our rebuild and we are overachieving. So its natural for us to get greedy.

But we need to be patient.

[Flying Colors]

The worst thing we could do is trade a bunch of players for a win now move.

This is the 2nd year of our rebuild and we are overachieving. So its natural for us to get greedy.

But we need to be patient.

this guy gets it