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Best case scenario for this upcoming offseason

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Re: Best case scenario for this upcoming offseason 

Post#21 » by Saberestar » Fri May 8, 2015 11:12 am

Mr-Al wrote:
Saberestar wrote:MoBros for Tony Snell, McDermott and filler.


pass

Warren > McDermott

and Snell hasn't shown anything consistently at all

As long as they aren't in prison, the Morri, especially Kieff, are worth much more. You shouldn't sell low anyway

the worst part about this whole thing is that they won't even go to court until after July probably

would have wanted this **** over with before the draft ideally

**** those guys.

It is not Warren or McDermott. ..it's Warren and McDermott. They have a different skill set. You can play Snell at SG, Warren and McDermott at SF and Tucker can play backup PF or whatever position if he is in next year's team.
We disagree about their value. That would be sell high because Snell and McDermott have huge potential and are on rookie contracts. Speaking strictly about their basketball on the court, I think that they have more value than the twins. Snell is a terrific defender and good 3p shooter....he can be the next Jimmy Butler, he is nearing his explosion. Thibodau loves to play veteran guys and he introduce players slowly but on our team Snell would be playing around 25 mpg.
McDermott is a great great 6'7 shooter and this always have a ton of value around the league. Probably the next Korver.
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Re: Best case scenario for this upcoming offseason 

Post#22 » by Walt_Uoob » Fri May 8, 2015 7:59 pm

Okay, I don't really want this to happen (I wouldn't wish prison on anyone), but here's a scenario. Generally I do think it's too soon to try to make some blockbuster move into contention but I don't think that means we have to totally tank either. I think we try to compete with our young guys and keep trying to find diamonds in the rough and flipping veterans for younger talent and picks.

Here goes:
--Knight is signed for a deal similar to Bledsoe's.
--Morris brothers get about 6 months jail time each, losing their season but coming back in time to re-acclimate to the world and the team next summer. They mature in jail and say all the right things the Suns stand behind them.
--Realizing we are not likely to be a playoff team, we give PJ Tucker the Jared Dudley treatment, thanking him for his awesome service and trading him to a playoff-caliber team where his talents are a better fit, getting draft picks and/or young talent in return. (The Raptors need defense and have a juicy pick coming to them that they might surrender - the worse of the Knicks/Nuggets pick in 2016 - and other guys like Terrence Ross and Bruno Caboclo.)
--Danny Granger picks up his option, gets playing time due to the absence of Kief, Mook, and Tucker, and looks great for his age/history. We trade him after a couple of months for young talent / a draft pick.
--We draft or otherwise acquire a young PF or two. Maybe re-sign Wright.
--Most of the minutes for the year go to Bledsoe, Knight, Goodwin, Warren, Len, Bullock, and maybe Wright or maybe PF-to-be-named-later.
--Bledsoe and Knight have their ups and downs but develop great chemistry over the course of the year. Goodwin develops nicely into the third guard spot. Warren and Len keep improving. Other pieces brought in show a lot of promise.
--This all nets us a pretty fun season and a strong, encouraging finish but not a winning record. We finish with a bottom-ten record.
--At this time next year we're looking at a core that's had a productive season of development together, our own top-ten pick, the Cavs' pick, the returning Morris brothers, whatever picks/talent we were able to get out of Tucker and Granger, and those future Miami picks. We have an intriguing roster, a lot of cap space, and assets. At that point maybe we make that disgruntled-superstar deal or maybe we're happy with internal development and the value of consistency.
--We crack the playoffs in 2017 and are legit contenders in 2018 and beyond.
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Re: Best case scenario for this upcoming offseason 

Post#23 » by saintEscaton » Fri May 8, 2015 8:25 pm

Walt_Uoob wrote:Okay, I don't really want this to happen (I wouldn't wish prison on anyone), but here's a scenario. Generally I do think it's too soon to try to make some blockbuster move into contention but I don't think that means we have to totally tank either. I think we try to compete with our young guys and keep trying to find diamonds in the rough and flipping veterans for younger talent and picks.

Here goes:
--Knight is signed for a deal similar to Bledsoe's.
--Morris brothers get about 6 months jail time each, losing their season but coming back in time to re-acclimate to the world and the team next summer. They mature in jail and say all the right things the Suns stand behind them.
--Realizing we are not likely to be a playoff team, we give PJ Tucker the Jared Dudley treatment, thanking him for his awesome service and trading him to a playoff-caliber team where his talents are a better fit, getting draft picks and/or young talent in return. (The Raptors need defense and have a juicy pick coming to them that they might surrender - the worse of the Knicks/Nuggets pick in 2016 - and other guys like Terrence Ross and Bruno Caboclo.)
--Danny Granger picks up his option, gets playing time due to the absence of Kief, Mook, and Tucker, and looks great for his age/history. We trade him after a couple of months for young talent / a draft pick.
--We draft or otherwise acquire a young PF or two. Maybe re-sign Wright.
--Most of the minutes for the year go to Bledsoe, Knight, Goodwin, Warren, Len, Bullock, and maybe Wright or maybe PF-to-be-named-later.
--Bledsoe and Knight have their ups and downs but develop great chemistry over the course of the year. Goodwin develops nicely into the third guard spot. Warren and Len keep improving. Other pieces brought in show a lot of promise.
--This all nets us a pretty fun season and a strong, encouraging finish but not a winning record. We finish with a bottom-ten record.
--At this time next year we're looking at a core that's had a productive season of development together, our own top-ten pick, the Cavs' pick, the returning Morris brothers, whatever picks/talent we were able to get out of Tucker and Granger, and those future Miami picks. We have an intriguing roster, a lot of cap space, and assets. At that point maybe we make that disgruntled-superstar deal or maybe we're happy with internal development and the value of consistency.
--We crack the playoffs in 2017 and are legit contenders in 2018 and beyond.



Please NO. At least one of Bled or Knight has to go, you can't commit longterm to a "2 PG"s backcourt of non-elite positionless guardas the focal point of your team and have an offensive identity. Also the Morii have dug themselves in deep, it shouldn't be hard to part with glorified role players who aren't worth the headache.This seems to be boilerplate McDuh offseason strategy signing some utility vets on the scrapheap, trying to flip your damaged goods like a used cars salesman and drafting low impact rooks who will never see the light of the court or develop because they're buried in depth. If we stay on this track of conbuilding we're we're destined to be a perennial 10th seed on the treadmill of mediocrity.We need to burn it all down and start from the ground up if we want to commit to the full rebuild we so direly need.
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Re: Best case scenario for this upcoming offseason 

Post#24 » by tdjm » Fri May 8, 2015 9:14 pm

Best case scenario for me would be:

Send out feelers to all the big UFA and see if there's any interest. If you can get a verbal commitment from them or their agents, start making cap space. This is unlikely to happen, and we're not one player away from contending for anything. It would just be changing the nature of the rebuild, since it doesn't hurt to at least see if there's interest from Love and whatnot.

When we generate no interest from star FA, start looking for Tucker trading partners immediately. We aren't looking to make any noise in the playoffs for 2+ years, Tucker has value to a team trying to win and there's a chance we can poach picks or young players buried on a contender. In retrospect, not dealing guys like Green and Dragic when their value was high after a great season really came back to crush the Suns pretty badly. Don't make the same mistake with Tucker.

Hold on to the Morris twins. Their value is at rock bottom, the last thing a rebuilding team needs to do is to sell low on their assets. I think the most likely thing that would happen is they plea to some sort of misdemeanor and get no jail time or they settle out of court. This gives the Suns a chance to slap them with suspensions that justify them coming off the bench for the rest of the season. If they aren't using this as a learning experience and improving at all, then start sending out trade feelers immediately, but still don't ship them off for nothing if at all possible.

Don't trade Bledsoe for a draft pick unless there's a clear chance to get a super talent who is falling in the draft. If trading Bledsoe can get you Towns (no, lol), Russell (unlikely), or Winslow (MAYBE), consider pulling the trigger. If Bledsoe can only get you Mudiay, Porzingis, WCS, Hezonja, etc. then stand pat and look for a better trade deal down the line.

Do consider drafting a project like Oubre, Wood, etc. If they pass interviews, do well in workouts, and show a hunger to compete - why not? Take a crazy swing for the fences at #13,

Don't be active in free agency, unless there's an indication that one of the big RFAs is drawing a price point too high for their team. If the Bucks don't want to max Middleton, or the Magic don't want to max Harris, then start butting in with sign and trade talk. This is super unlikely to happen since they're near mortal locks to get maxes and matched by their current teams, but at least be on the lookout for the possibility. If there's a really sick value play (like Danny Green somehow slips through the cracks for 7 million or less [not happening]), then pull the trigger on that, but otherwise, don't spend very much. Maybe look for a good veteran presence who will accept a teaching role with no playtime for <2 mil at the end of free agency, or a vet min towel waver before training camp, but nothing else.

Instead, look for teams who are trying to be free agent players who need to shed assets to sign guys. If the Spurs are trying to move Splitter and a first to clear cap, get in on that. If the Warriors need to move Lee and a first, get in on that, etc. etc. Look for teams where we can use our cap space to absorb up some value. Celtics did this last offseason when Cleveland was doing work to clear cap for Lebron, and they got a ton of assets. It's a winning play for a rebuilding team.

Make training camp an open battle. Re-sign Knight, but don't guarantee him the starting spot (don't guarantee him a bench spot, either). Let everyone battle it out in training camp, and start your most promising players. If Knight gets crushed in training camp by Bledsoe, Archie, and Warren, then start those guys. If Knight comes in looking great, start Knight.

Eternally have 1 of Bledsoe or Knight quietly on the trading block, but don't ever get rid of them for below value. Have patience, since we aren't competing. There's no pressure to take the first deal that comes across. Wait for a good one.

Put the playoffs out of mind. Just focus on development of your guys. Start seeing who can be here on the team in 3+ years when they're a threat to make the playoffs. Let Warren loose, see if Goodwin can put it together, give more touches to Len - just focus on improving the kids you already have. Making the playoffs as an 8 seed is horrible, don't even try (unless you're playing Warren and Goodwin and whatnot 30 mins a game and they break out and take you there - that's different, and also not going to happen).

Just take next year off from competing and see what you can get out of your prospects. The Suns' playoff drought is 6 years, but their championship drought is 47 years. Focus on fixing that second drought. Make your goal winning a championship in 10 years, and not making the playoffs in 1.
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Re: Best case scenario for this upcoming offseason 

Post#25 » by letsgosuns » Fri May 8, 2015 9:58 pm

Why do so many people want to give a max contract to Khris Middleton. 13 pts, 4 rbs, and 2 asst during the regular season in 30 mpg. 15 pts, 4 rbs, and 2 asst in the playoffs. He also shot 37% fg and 32% 3pts in the playoffs and he played 39 mpg. I have not seen him that much. His stats seem ordinary and his PER is league average I believe at 15.70. Is he really all that good? I wonder if Goodwin would at least match or better those statistics if he was given 39 mpg. I bet he would. And he does not cost a max contract.
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Re: Best case scenario for this upcoming offseason 

Post#26 » by tdjm » Fri May 8, 2015 10:14 pm

He can play either wing spot (offense and defense) in a league where wing players are scarce. His max is expensive for one year and comparatively cheap after that - really, it's mostly about the cap jump.

Gordon Hayward, Chandler Parsons etc. got big bucks before the jump was official. Wing talent costs a butt load these days, Middleton's getting paid.
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Re: Best case scenario for this upcoming offseason 

Post#27 » by Saberestar » Fri May 8, 2015 10:18 pm

The thing about Middleton is that he is a two-way player and he has high IQ. This two things combined with his age and position ( primarily SG) can give him a Max easily this offseason.
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Re: Best case scenario for this upcoming offseason 

Post#28 » by letsgosuns » Fri May 8, 2015 10:27 pm

Okay. Well all of that sounds good. The key would be either trading Bledsoe or letting Knight walk, or a sign and trade of Knight. 6'7" shooting guards that play defense are hard to come by. He could start and Goodwin can be the primary backup.
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Re: Best case scenario for this upcoming offseason 

Post#29 » by bwgood77 » Sat May 9, 2015 12:16 am

Two teams you might want to really look at as potential trade partners are Denver and Toronto. Many think Toronto may tear it down and everyone will be on the table.

Denver may trade Lawson to Sac for their pick. At that point they need a PG. I don't know if these teams have any worthy assets and they won't be trading their picks, but they are two teams likely to make trades.

Also, one team that might trade their pick is Orlando, because word is they have too many young guys and want vets (though I guess people could say the same about us...since that is what the FO has said).

But I don't think Orlando needs anything we have that would be worth giving us their pick. You'd have to think of another team getting someone from us, that team sending a vet to Orlando, and their pick coming to us. I haven't gone through the thought process of thinking out all the possibilities or players, so it may not be feasible, but those are the teams I think might be worth looking at.

Indiana may make big changes since they want to run.....would they deal David West? He would be the perfect vet leader for us....TJ Warren and Granger would love it for sure. He could possibly put the twins in their place if they act up and tell them to quit being idiots.
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Re: Best case scenario for this upcoming offseason 

Post#30 » by Revived » Sat May 9, 2015 7:54 am

Middleton is definitely max worthy. The Bucks dumped Knight because they would rather pay Middleton.

He's got AMAZING size, is incredibly young, top 5 defender at his position, good shooter, very young and his handles and shooting off dribble abilities are coming along well also.
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Re: Best case scenario for this upcoming offseason 

Post#31 » by Damkac » Sat May 9, 2015 10:57 pm

tdjm wrote:Just take next year off from competing and see what you can get out of your prospects. The Suns' playoff drought is 6 years, but their championship drought is 47 years. Focus on fixing that second drought. Make your goal winning a championship in 10 years, and not making the playoffs in 1.

This should be written on the wall in McD's office.
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Re: Best case scenario for this upcoming offseason 

Post#32 » by SUN » Sun May 10, 2015 1:41 am

tdjm wrote:Just take next year off from competing and see what you can get out of your prospects. The Suns' playoff drought is 6 years, but their championship drought is 47 years. Focus on fixing that second drought. Make your goal winning a championship in 10 years, and not making the playoffs in 1.

That's...quite the quote.
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Re: Best case scenario for this upcoming offseason 

Post#33 » by kennydorglas » Sun May 10, 2015 3:08 pm

Interesting note... in every physical measurement, Middleton = Warren. There's a lot of similarities about this two.

Middleton is a natural swingman and could even play a little 4 if needed. He's a hardworker (77%FT/32% 3pt in college - 86%/40% 3pt in NBA). That's the beauty about him... he'll do whatever it takes to improve his game/get the win. His defense is overrated tho, but it's still very decent.
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Re: Best case scenario for this upcoming offseason 

Post#34 » by thamadkant » Mon May 11, 2015 1:28 am

Best case scenario for the off-season (pretty much since Suns got eliminated)...
- Len puts on solid muscles on his lower body to be able to hold his ground better.
- Len develops a mid range, not expert-level, but enough so he needs to be guarded.
- Goodwin adds 10 pounds of upper body muscles, so he can finish stronger to the rim.
- Goodwin becomes a reliable open 3pt shooter, so defenses dont sag off him and clog the paint or the lane for him to drive.
- Warren adds strength everywhere, he needs to be able to finish in traffic.
- Warren adds a 3pt range, similar to Goodwin, so both need to be guarded at the perimeter.
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Re: Best case scenario for this upcoming offseason 

Post#35 » by Revived » Mon May 11, 2015 12:47 pm

Best case scenario:

-Sarver sells team
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Re: Best case scenario for this upcoming offseason 

Post#36 » by Qwigglez » Mon May 11, 2015 1:32 pm

1UPZ wrote:Best case scenario for the off-season (pretty much since Suns got eliminated)...
- Len puts on solid muscles on his lower body to be able to hold his ground better.
- Len develops a mid range, not expert-level, but enough so he needs to be guarded.
- Goodwin adds 10 pounds of upper body muscles, so he can finish stronger to the rim.
- Goodwin becomes a reliable open 3pt shooter, so defenses dont sag off him and clog the paint or the lane for him to drive.
- Warren adds strength everywhere, he needs to be able to finish in traffic.
- Warren adds a 3pt range, similar to Goodwin, so both need to be guarded at the perimeter.


This is definitely the best case scenario right here.
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Re: Best case scenario for this upcoming offseason 

Post#37 » by Damkac » Mon May 11, 2015 7:16 pm

Mayby they should use some of Bledsoe's steroids... oh, I mean workout routines.
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Re: Best case scenario for this upcoming offseason 

Post#38 » by ATTL » Mon May 11, 2015 9:52 pm

Qwigglez wrote:
1UPZ wrote:Best case scenario for the off-season (pretty much since Suns got eliminated)...
- Len puts on solid muscles on his lower body to be able to hold his ground better.
- Len develops a mid range, not expert-level, but enough so he needs to be guarded.
- Goodwin adds 10 pounds of upper body muscles, so he can finish stronger to the rim.
- Goodwin becomes a reliable open 3pt shooter, so defenses dont sag off him and clog the paint or the lane for him to drive.
- Warren adds strength everywhere, he needs to be able to finish in traffic.
- Warren adds a 3pt range, similar to Goodwin, so both need to be guarded at the perimeter.


This is definitely the best case scenario right here.


+suns win first pick in the draft.
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Re: Best case scenario for this upcoming offseason 

Post#39 » by b-ball forever » Mon May 11, 2015 10:44 pm

Eh, Middleton is a good all-around player who fits well into Jason Kidd's system, but there's no way he's getting the max. He wasn't even in the Bucks' rotation early in the season, and is prolly the Buck who benefited most from Jabari Parker's injury.

He might get Demar Derozan type money, 10 mill per season.
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Re: Best case scenario for this upcoming offseason 

Post#40 » by bwgood77 » Tue May 12, 2015 12:03 am

ATTL wrote:
Qwigglez wrote:
1UPZ wrote:Best case scenario for the off-season (pretty much since Suns got eliminated)...
- Len puts on solid muscles on his lower body to be able to hold his ground better.
- Len develops a mid range, not expert-level, but enough so he needs to be guarded.
- Goodwin adds 10 pounds of upper body muscles, so he can finish stronger to the rim.
- Goodwin becomes a reliable open 3pt shooter, so defenses dont sag off him and clog the paint or the lane for him to drive.
- Warren adds strength everywhere, he needs to be able to finish in traffic.
- Warren adds a 3pt range, similar to Goodwin, so both need to be guarded at the perimeter.


This is definitely the best case scenario right here.


+suns win first pick in the draft.


Yes, I was going to add that. Of course that's the best case scenario. It would be nice to have that kind of optimism and hope around here. Even any of the top 3 though.

We will have 6 out of the possible 1000 combinations. Minnesota has 250 of them. But only one combination pops out, so any one combination has as much possibility as any other combination.

But Minnesota also has a 75% chance of not winning. Too bad we have a 99.4% chance of not winning.

But, when it comes to best case scenario, that obviously is best case, barring an unforeseen trade for a superstar, which seems a little less likely, like a 99.5% chance of not happening.

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