Are the Suns a treadmill team?

[saintEscaton]

Its not even debatable. Of course we are.

[HootieRules]

A young team that wins 18 games is a team with potential. A young team that wins 39 games is a team on the treadmill. There is something wrong with that logic.

I agree with this. The draft lottery should've been changed a long time ago to quit continuously rewarding dysfunctional, inept franchises.

However, every single team knows the lay of the land. The worst place you can be in the NBA is where the Suns are at, not good enough to contend and not bad enough to get a high pick. If you are going to be in NBA purgatory, at least keep the cap flexible and hoard future assets. The Knight trade was alarming to me in that respect. Comparing this team to Houston or Boston of past years is misguided. The Suns don't have the assets to get a player(s) like that, primarily because they've botched the last 15 months so badly.

Sarver's arrogance is the anchor to this franchise. All he he cares about is getting the 8th seed, even if it means getting bounced in the first round and sacrificing the future. Its frustratingly shortsighted. Instead of focusing on his own franchise and the path to get better in the long term, he alienates other respected franchises during the lockout and preseason and bitches about playoff seeding just to be able to act like a buffoon on TV for 2 extra games in late April.

“I am not a real patient person,” Sarver says. “You don’t have the kind of success that allows you to buy an NBA team by being a patient person in business. But it’s just a personality trait, and you try not to make decisions based on that.”

Please tell us more about how smart you are and made your wealth by being a banker. That will endear you to the fans.

[JTrain]

tl;dr but: yes. Of course. Even most of the brightest optimists don't see us higher than a 7 seed this year. And yet most agree that Chandler's help will keep us from the depths. So we're stuck in purgatory again.

The young guys that we pin our hopes on (Len, Warren and Archie) have not been any better than average NBA players thus far. Bledsoe and Keef aren't likely to improve greatly at this point in their career. Show me a list of every current player who made the all-star game at 28 or older. What percentage of them were not all-star-caliber players at age 25? In other words, significant improvement after your first 2-3 years is very rare.

But don't worry, it's not all bad. We will get a few really fun days of chasing Durant when Phoenix inevitably shows up on the list of teams recruiting him next summer.

[DirtyDez]

Yes but that doesn't mean it's permanent. A lot of things have to go right very soon.

[saintEscaton]

A young team that wins 18 games is a team with potential. A young team that wins 39 games is a team on the treadmill. There is something wrong with that logic.

I agree with this. The draft lottery should've been changed a long time ago to quit continuously rewarding dysfunctional, inept franchises.

However, every single team knows the lay of the land. The worst place you can be in the NBA is where the Suns are at, not good enough to contend and not bad enough to get a high pick. If you are going to be in NBA purgatory, at least keep the cap flexible and hoard future assets. The Knight trade was alarming to me in that respect. Comparing this team to Houston or Boston of past years is misguided. The Suns don't have the assets to get a player(s) like that, primarily because they've botched the last 15 months so badly.

Sarver's arrogance is the anchor to this franchise. All he he cares about is getting the 8th seed, even if it means getting bounced in the first round and sacrificing the future. Its frustratingly shortsighted. Instead of focusing on his own franchise and the path to get better in the long term, he alienates other respected franchises during the lockout and preseason and bitches about playoff seeding just to be able to act like a buffoon on TV for 2 extra games in late April.

“I am not a real patient person,” Sarver says. “You don’t have the kind of success that allows you to buy an NBA team by being a patient person in business. But it’s just a personality trait, and you try not to make decisions based on that.”

Please tell us more about how smart you are and made your wealth by being a banker. That will endear you to the fans.

This. Sarver as an owner has been the worst combination of lavish incompetence in times of decline (going into the luxury tax by giving out that ridiculous contract to Hedo and Babby's ex-client scrubs/disbanding SSOL by trading for Shaq) and spendthrift frugality at the most pivotal times (refusing to bring out the checkbook to retain Joe Johnson, selling draft picks that could have been used on Iggy/Deng etc). He prides himself on balancing the budget and only cares about turning over a positive profit margin with his corporate investment group and likes to play the victim card because he assumed $200 million of debt on Colangelo's account.McDuh might have had a long term vision of clarity but now its been muddled by Sarver's insistence on waving the foam finger and he has now become the new face of branding/damage control for the establishment after he inherited the Blanks trainwreck that set back this franchise nearly a decade.

[saintEscaton]

I know its crying over spilt milk but really the '13-'14 season was a make it or break it year where we were set up to reach the climactic pot of old at the end of the rainbow after naturally tanking only to be derailed by an overachieving squad lead by a deceivingly irreplicable career year from Dragic making an All-NBA team that lead us down this indefinitely winding path of prolonged conbuilding. If we're satiated with perennially being on the outside looking in then sure we don't need a change of course but its you need to raise your standards because you have to achieve something of worth even if you fall short.

[bwgood77]

I don't know why I went to this GB discussion, because you can almost never have a reasonable discussion there. Just too many either uneducated posters, or too biased posters. It's not worth it unless you can create a good topic that isn't directed at a certain team.

[bwgood77]

A young team that wins 18 games is a team with potential. A young team that wins 39 games is a team on the treadmill. There is something wrong with that logic.

I agree with this. The draft lottery should've been changed a long time ago to quit continuously rewarding dysfunctional, inept franchises.

However, every single team knows the lay of the land. The worst place you can be in the NBA is where the Suns are at, not good enough to contend and not bad enough to get a high pick. If you are going to be in NBA purgatory, at least keep the cap flexible and hoard future assets. The Knight trade was alarming to me in that respect. Comparing this team to Houston or Boston of past years is misguided. The Suns don't have the assets to get a player(s) like that, primarily because they've botched the last 15 months so badly.

Sarver's arrogance is the anchor to this franchise. All he he cares about is getting the 8th seed, even if it means getting bounced in the first round and sacrificing the future. Its frustratingly shortsighted. Instead of focusing on his own franchise and the path to get better in the long term, he alienates other respected franchises during the lockout and preseason and bitches about playoff seeding just to be able to act like a buffoon on TV for 2 extra games in late April.

“I am not a real patient person,” Sarver says. “You don’t have the kind of success that allows you to buy an NBA team by being a patient person in business. But it’s just a personality trait, and you try not to make decisions based on that.”

Please tell us more about how smart you are and made your wealth by being a banker. That will endear you to the fans.

How is comparing us to Boston or Houston misguided? What better assets did they have then we do before they landed those guys? Al Jefferson was a good asset, but what good asset did Houston send for Harden? A few picks? We can always do that.

[saintEscaton]

A young team that wins 18 games is a team with potential. A young team that wins 39 games is a team on the treadmill. There is something wrong with that logic.

I agree with this. The draft lottery should've been changed a long time ago to quit continuously rewarding dysfunctional, inept franchises.

However, every single team knows the lay of the land. The worst place you can be in the NBA is where the Suns are at, not good enough to contend and not bad enough to get a high pick. If you are going to be in NBA purgatory, at least keep the cap flexible and hoard future assets. The Knight trade was alarming to me in that respect. Comparing this team to Houston or Boston of past years is misguided. The Suns don't have the assets to get a player(s) like that, primarily because they've botched the last 15 months so badly.

Sarver's arrogance is the anchor to this franchise. All he he cares about is getting the 8th seed, even if it means getting bounced in the first round and sacrificing the future. Its frustratingly shortsighted. Instead of focusing on his own franchise and the path to get better in the long term, he alienates other respected franchises during the lockout and preseason and bitches about playoff seeding just to be able to act like a buffoon on TV for 2 extra games in late April.

“I am not a real patient person,” Sarver says. “You don’t have the kind of success that allows you to buy an NBA team by being a patient person in business. But it’s just a personality trait, and you try not to make decisions based on that.”

Please tell us more about how smart you are and made your wealth by being a banker. That will endear you to the fans.

How is comparing us to Boston or Houston misguided? What better assets did they have then we do before they landed those guys? Al Jefferson was a good asset, but what good asset did Houston send for Harden? A few picks? We can always do that.

I agree we're not any different. But the point to take away is that you shouldn't put yourself in a position where you are solely relying on divine intervention to acquire a franchise player via trade for pennnies on the dollar. Its probably rebuild through the draft or bust The Harden trade was clearly an outlier as OKC was stacked/couldn't accomodate another dominant ballhandler and you can't bank on us ever getting an opportunity to pounce on a deal so hilariously lopsided

[bwgood77]

Sarver's arrogance is the anchor to this franchise. All he he cares about is getting the 8th seed, even if it means getting bounced in the first round and sacrificing the future. Its frustratingly shortsighted. Instead of focusing on his own franchise and the path to get better in the long term, he alienates other respected franchises during the lockout and preseason and bitches about playoff seeding just to be able to act like a buffoon on TV for 2 extra games in late April.

“I am not a real patient person,” Sarver says. “You don’t have the kind of success that allows you to buy an NBA team by being a patient person in business. But it’s just a personality trait, and you try not to make decisions based on that.”

Please tell us more about how smart you are and made your wealth by being a banker. That will endear you to the fans.

I agree that Sarver is short sighted, but if you think he is aiming for the 8 seed, you don't know what Sarver hopes for in the long run. If you don't like the fact that McD was good enough to get Warren and Booker, that sucks, but those seem like solid productive picks. Many really high picks bust, and being competitive year in and year out is good for potential free agent signings. We are in the second year of a rebuild. Would you want us to bench our players just so we could get a higher pick? That might not go over well with players or potential free agents.

[bwgood77]

I agree with this. The draft lottery should've been changed a long time ago to quit continuously rewarding dysfunctional, inept franchises.

However, every single team knows the lay of the land. The worst place you can be in the NBA is where the Suns are at, not good enough to contend and not bad enough to get a high pick. If you are going to be in NBA purgatory, at least keep the cap flexible and hoard future assets. The Knight trade was alarming to me in that respect. Comparing this team to Houston or Boston of past years is misguided. The Suns don't have the assets to get a player(s) like that, primarily because they've botched the last 15 months so badly.

Sarver's arrogance is the anchor to this franchise. All he he cares about is getting the 8th seed, even if it means getting bounced in the first round and sacrificing the future. Its frustratingly shortsighted. Instead of focusing on his own franchise and the path to get better in the long term, he alienates other respected franchises during the lockout and preseason and bitches about playoff seeding just to be able to act like a buffoon on TV for 2 extra games in late April.



Please tell us more about how smart you are and made your wealth by being a banker. That will endear you to the fans.

How is comparing us to Boston or Houston misguided? What better assets did they have then we do before they landed those guys? Al Jefferson was a good asset, but what good asset did Houston send for Harden? A few picks? We can always do that.

I agree we're not any different. But the point to take away is that you shouldn't put yourself in a position where you are solely relying on divine intervention to acquire a franchise player via trade for pennnies on the dollar. Its probably rebuild through the draft or bust The Harden trade was clearly an outlier as OKC was stacked and you can't bank on us ever getting an opportunity to pounce on a deal so hilariously lopsided

Well I really like Warren and Booker with where we were drafting, so maybe we just have a different take.

[saintEscaton]

I don't know why I went to this GB discussion, because you can almost never have a reasonable discussion there. Just too many either uneducated posters, or too biased posters. It's not worth it unless you can create a good topic that isn't directed at a certain team.

Too many Sixers fans and GM posters have been drinking the Hinkie koolaid/chanting the mantra of 'Trust in the process"

[MrMiyagi]

Seriously, who does Philly have outside of Jahlil and Nerlens? I'd say Len and Nerlens are a wash, so who else do they have? Stauskas? We have Booker. Wroten? We have Bledsoe. Jerami Grant? We have TJ. Glenn Robinson III? We have Archie. So is it Jahlil vs Knight and Kieff, and I'd take our guys. Not to mention we have a better record. I mean, if Embiid is the difference, we could always sign Oden to make it even.

[bwgood77]

Seriously, who does Philly have outside of Jahlil and Nerlens? I'd say Len and Nerlens are a wash, so who else do they have? Stauskas? We have Booker. Wroten? We have Bledsoe. Jerami Grant? We have TJ. Glenn Robinson III? We have Archie. So is it Jahlil vs Knight and Kieff, and I'd take our guys. Not to mention we have a better record. I mean, if Embiid is the difference, we could always sign Oden to make it even.

Unless you are talking about a different Grant, the Knicks have Jerian Grant, and he has been playing very well. Otherwise I agree with your post.

[blacksun]

I don't know why I went to this GB discussion, because you can almost never have a reasonable discussion there. Just too many either uneducated posters, or too biased posters. It's not worth it unless you can create a good topic that isn't directed at a certain team.

LMAO thats exactly what i was thinking when I read your posts there, I was like get out man while you still can, its not worth it!

[MrMiyagi]

Seriously, who does Philly have outside of Jahlil and Nerlens? I'd say Len and Nerlens are a wash, so who else do they have? Stauskas? We have Booker. Wroten? We have Bledsoe. Jerami Grant? We have TJ. Glenn Robinson III? We have Archie. So is it Jahlil vs Knight and Kieff, and I'd take our guys. Not to mention we have a better record. I mean, if Embiid is the difference, we could always sign Oden to make it even.

Unless you are talking about a different Grant, the Knicks have Jerian Grant, and he has been playing very well. Otherwise I agree with your post.

His younger brother Jerami, on the 76ers

[bwgood77]

I know its crying over spilt milk but really the '13-'14 season was a make it or break it year where we were set up to reach the climactic pot of old at the end of the rainbow after naturally tanking only to be derailed by an overachieving squad lead by a deceivingly irreplicable career year from Dragic making an All-NBA team that lead us down this indefinitely winding path of prolonged conbuilding. If we're satiated with perennially being on the outside looking in then sure we don't need a change of course but its you need to raise your standards because you have to achieve something of worth even if you fall short.

So I guess that means you are not a fan of Warren, who won player of the year in the ACC in his first year with major minutes over Jabari Parker?

[Mulhollanddrive]

Building a team is probably one of the big myths of NBA. Realistically 1 or 2 humans out of 6 billion decide whether you are a contender or not. LaMarcus Aldridge and James Harden decided we would not be. Every other move is probably just doing stuff to do stuff.

So whether you're tanking or treadmill or win now, it's not where you are, it's where you end up, hopefully with 1 or 2 of the dozen humans that make a championship contender.

I think a good GM can take a team from being bad (20-30 wins) to being good enough (40-50 wins). But you can't get to 60 wins through nice trades, you need to luck out on transformational freak player/s.

[saintEscaton]

I know its crying over spilt milk but really the '13-'14 season was a make it or break it year where we were set up to reach the climactic pot of old at the end of the rainbow after naturally tanking only to be derailed by an overachieving squad lead by a deceivingly irreplicable career year from Dragic making an All-NBA team that lead us down this indefinitely winding path of prolonged conbuilding. If we're satiated with perennially being on the outside looking in then sure we don't need a change of course but its you need to raise your standards because you have to achieve something of worth even if you fall short.

So I guess that means you are not a fan of Warren, who won player of the year in the ACC in his first year with major minutes over Jabari Parker?

I am realistically hopeful. He's a nice promising consolation prize for missing out on the crown jewel. Booker on the other hand I'm not sold on and he will really need to convince me otherwise

[lilfishi22]

I don't think people know what treadmill team means on the GB. At least some people. If you consistently get the 5th pick, that is treadmill because you are staying in the same place. If you are consistently first round fodder, that is treadmill. If you are consistently second round fodder, that is treadmill.

We got rid of old guys, got the 5th pick, won 48 games in the toughest WC ever, then had injuries and roster turnover and took a small step back, but got rid of more older guys and went even younger. That is not treadmill

Now if they think we are a future treadmill team? OK, but there are a lot of treadmill teams.

Fully agreed.

People say teams like Wolves have such a bright future because of the "stars" they have. But the fact is this, they aren't stars, not until they start winning games. The Wolves haven't been relevant since 2003 and that's after multiple top picks over the year. Until Wigginss, Lavine, Towns etc become stars and actually make the team relevant, they are as much of a treadmill team as any.

People say we're a treadmill team and they might be right considering we haven't added an established star so we could be a 30-40 win team again but no one can say we're a treadmill team while teams like the Kings and Wolves and Sixers aren't because of their potential.