Marcus morris

[jcsunsfan]

[quote="SF88"]Nope, he thinks he's LeBron.

"To trade me without consent?"

...

Yea, we should all respect that imaginary no trade clause he has in his contract

Honestly i think what the Suns did here was pretty dirty and underhanded. The twins took pay cuts to stay together and maximize value for the Suns. Out of respect for the two sacrificing their value, they could have at least discussed a trade with him.... and now his brother wants to be traded and probably will.
I have no idea what the suns are doing as a franchise. When they had that near playoff year a couple years back i was really looking forward to them becoming a similar team to the late 2000s Denver teams. But lets hope they get their **** together this season.[/quote]

Are you serious? Have you not seen any of the stuff they did this year? And they did not take a pay cut. 52 million for the two was a good deal for them. No one should ever think they can go through their career on some sort of buddy deal.

[AtheJ415]

Markieff took a pay cut. Marcus did not. Either way though, yeah, to characterize the Suns as underhanded or dirty in this is laughable. When the Suns signed both they expected both to be a part of the future. Both then proceeded to embark on a crusade to see what they could get away with that I've never seen of a pro athlete. The techs, berating the fans, berating the coach, ignoring the media, followed up by felony assault? You can't do all of that and assume your place with the future of any team is still solid. Not unless you're a true superstar, and even then that's not always enough.

[Bravenewworld]

Are you serious? Have you not seen any of the stuff they did this year? And they did not take a pay cut. 52 million for the two was a good deal for them. No one should ever think they can go through their career on some sort of buddy deal.

Steve Kyler: In sports thing change – but to Markieff Morris’ defense both he and his brother took less money to be on the same team. Not sure you can be mad at the guy for wanting out less than a year after telling them they’d be together going forward – via Twitter stevekylerNBA

Not that we really need citations for this. Even Marcus, the lesser of the two, was given a contract that was slightly above what would be a first overall draft pick contract scale. Im not sure if you've noticed contracts lately in the NBA (just look at RJ or Beldsoe or Parsons, etc) but even Marcus could have easily gotten 9. Evaluating this guy at a rookie contract is insane, there was clearly something off the side. Other reasons (aka, wanted to be with brother).

In the end the Suns ended up paying for two guys, at a cost of 3 million dollars less than Parsons or the relative same cost of Bledsoe (despite these undersized, quick, quick scoring, etc. PGs being a dime a dozen in the NBA right now) that combined were rather diverse in positions, worked very well together and posted combined numbers that were similar to a star, except with diverse positioning. There was clearly a trade off for both the players and the franchise and one seemingly did not respect that trade off.

Historically, teams have generally respected the brothers or twins thing. You can at the very least.... very...very....very... least make them aware of what your plans might be, allow them to have some level of input and put slightly more effort into helping someone who sacrificed for you. But hey, maybe this is why we've seen the Suns go from possibly going up the ladder tot he WCFs, to being a laughing stock. They have clearly not made one good decision since that 2013? season. Which is a shame, because there's so many great players on this team that deserve to be in a positive situation.

Markieff took a pay cut. Marcus did not. Either way though, yeah, to characterize the Suns as underhanded or dirty in this is laughable.

No one is suggesting that they did or did not deserve to be on the team or their actions did not contribute to one player being traded.
That's not what is being suggested and that is not the point.
The three parties involved signed their contracts under a general premise. If the Suns no longer wanted to deal with them or one of them, they should have respected that premise that the two players sacrificed for and at the very least involved them in the conversation. To move forward without doing this, yes, its very underhanded and unethical from a business standpoint.

[Blkbrd671]

Are you serious? Have you not seen any of the stuff they did this year? And they did not take a pay cut. 52 million for the two was a good deal for them. No one should ever think they can go through their career on some sort of buddy deal.

1.) i am sure that during negotiations it was discussed as one of the reason's they'd sign
2.) There stupid for not having that in their contracts or a no trade clause
3.) They reportedly did take less money, and when you consider the new CBA, its even more of a pay cut. I'd hate my FO too if they went back on a agreement. i'd also kick my own a* for not making sure it was in writing

[saintEscaton]

Are you serious? Have you not seen any of the stuff they did this year? And they did not take a pay cut. 52 million for the two was a good deal for them. No one should ever think they can go through their career on some sort of buddy deal.

Steve Kyler: In sports thing change – but to Markieff Morris’ defense both he and his brother took less money to be on the same team. Not sure you can be mad at the guy for wanting out less than a year after telling them they’d be together going forward – via Twitter stevekylerNBA

Not that we really need citations for this. Even Marcus, the lesser of the two, was given a contract that was slightly above what would be a first overall draft pick contract scale. Im not sure if you've noticed contracts lately in the NBA (just look at RJ or Beldsoe or Parsons, etc) but even Marcus could have easily gotten 9. Evaluating this guy at a rookie contract is insane, there was clearly something off the side. Other reasons (aka, wanted to be with brother).

In the end the Suns ended up paying for two guys, at a cost of 3 million dollars less than Parsons or the relative same cost of Bledsoe (despite these undersized, quick, quick scoring, etc. PGs being a dime a dozen in the NBA right now) that combined were rather diverse in positions, worked very well together and posted combined numbers that were similar to a star, except with diverse positioning. There was clearly a trade off for both the players and the franchise and one seemingly did not respect that trade off.

Historically, teams have generally respected the brothers or twins thing. You can at the very least.... very...very....very... least make them aware of what your plans might be, allow them to have some level of input and put slightly more effort into helping someone who sacrificed for you. But hey, maybe this is why we've seen the Suns go from possibly going up the ladder tot he WCFs, to being a laughing stock. They have clearly not made one good decision since that 2013? season. Which is a shame, because there's so many great players on this team that deserve to be in a positive situation.

Markieff took a pay cut. Marcus did not. Either way though, yeah, to characterize the Suns as underhanded or dirty in this is laughable.

No one is suggesting that they did or did not deserve to be on the team or their actions did not contribute to one player being traded.
That's not what is being suggested and that is not the point.
The three parties involved signed their contracts under a general premise. If the Suns no longer wanted to deal with them or one of them, they should have respected that premise that the two players sacrificed for and at the very least involved them in the conversation. To move forward without doing this, yes, its very underhanded and unethical from a business standpoint.

Oh boy this is a good bait post. Can't wait until you get crucified for this

[Bravenewworld]

Are you serious? Have you not seen any of the stuff they did this year? And they did not take a pay cut. 52 million for the two was a good deal for them. No one should ever think they can go through their career on some sort of buddy deal.

1.) i am sure that during negotiations it was discussed as one of the reason's they'd sign

Id like to expand on this a bit more.
I would suggest that it is the number 1 reason and issue on the table.
If you've ever met twins that have spent their life together, the idea of being separated can often be more frightful than the idea of death. They are often terrified of this idea, more than anything else. I have two buddies who are twins, are 34, both married with kids, and all live in the same house because they cant live apart from one another.

[lilfishi22]

Historically, teams have generally respected the brothers or twins thing. You can at the very least.... very...very....very... least make them aware of what your plans might be, allow them to have some level of input and put slightly more effort into helping someone who sacrificed for you. But hey, maybe this is why we've seen the Suns go from possibly going up the ladder tot he WCFs, to being a laughing stock. They have clearly not made one good decision since that 2013? season. Which is a shame, because there's so many great players on this team that deserve to be in a positive situation.

Serious question, but do you have some examples of this? My mind is blank trying to think of such a situation.

[Blkbrd671]

Are you serious? Have you not seen any of the stuff they did this year? And they did not take a pay cut. 52 million for the two was a good deal for them. No one should ever think they can go through their career on some sort of buddy deal.

1.) i am sure that during negotiations it was discussed as one of the reason's they'd sign

Id like to expand on this a bit more.
I would suggest that it is the number 1 reason and issue on the table.
If you've ever met twins that have spent their life together, the idea of being separated can often be more frightful than the idea of death. They are often terrified of this idea, more than anything else. I have two buddies who are twins, are 34, both married with kids, and all live in the same house because they cant live apart from one another.

WEll if either of them ends up having a better career on separate teams, then that'll pretty much debunk that theory.

BTW that is sad that 2 grown a* men can't grow up and be away from each other. They must be loved by some type of woman.


In regards to the Morris twins, i think its a whole different story when there's money and agreement involved. like i said, its there fault for no incorporating it into the lease, but at the same time Suns ownership has to show some professionalism and integrity(if in fact they made that verbal agreement).

[Stix]

Pretty sure, any agreement that the Twins had with the Suns FO didn't include being able to physically assault fans...

Any so called "verbal agreement" is thrown out the window after the felonies were handed out... I can't believe that people are defending the twins as if they were perfect little angels and now the Suns FO is "screwing" them.

They aren't even that good.

[Damkac]

Nobody would defend the twins if they were on their favourite team.

[saintEscaton]

This is pretty rich coming from a Thunder fan. Got lucky when Schultz pimped out Seattle to Bennett who betrayed his trust by promptly relocating he franchise to OKC in a backroom deal under Stern's support. All while inheriting a perennial DPOY canidate and three budding superstars the Sonics drafted after they had finally reaped what they had sown. And now they're the model of excellence and organizational integrity so they take can the moral high ground

[Blkbrd671]

Pretty sure, any agreement that the Twins had with the Suns FO didn't include being able to physically assault fans...

Any so called "verbal agreement" is thrown out the window after the felonies were handed out... I can't believe that people are defending the twins as if they were perfect little angels and now the Suns FO is "screwing" them.

They aren't even that good.

This is exactly the thinking that has put the Suns FO in this situation in the first place. Don't agree to something that your going to back out of . Particularly as a business. "Well i'm backing out because you did this" is a childish excuse. Be an adult and stick to your word or at least communicate intentions.

[bwgood77]

Pretty sure, any agreement that the Twins had with the Suns FO didn't include being able to physically assault fans...

Any so called "verbal agreement" is thrown out the window after the felonies were handed out... I can't believe that people are defending the twins as if they were perfect little angels and now the Suns FO is "screwing" them.

They aren't even that good.

This is exactly the thinking that has put the Suns FO in this situation in the first place. Don't agree to something that your going to back out of . Particularly as a business. "Well i'm backing out because you did this" is a childish excuse. Be an adult and stick to your word or at least communicate intentions.

You've gotta be **** kidding me. So if you get married and cheat on your wife with 10 different women and she wants a divorce, you would say that her backing out is childish nonsense? This is one of the more ridiculous things I've read in a while and I read many of those among these forums.

[saintEscaton]

Historically, teams have generally respected the brothers or twins thing. You can at the very least.... very...very....very... least make them aware of what your plans might be, allow them to have some level of input and put slightly more effort into helping someone who sacrificed for you. But hey, maybe this is why we've seen the Suns go from possibly going up the ladder tot he WCFs, to being a laughing stock. They have clearly not made one good decision since that 2013? season. Which is a shame, because there's so many great players on this team that deserve to be in a positive situation.

Serious question, but do you have some examples of this? My mind is blank trying to think of such a situation.

Maybe the Van Arsdales?

[Blkbrd671]

Pretty sure, any agreement that the Twins had with the Suns FO didn't include being able to physically assault fans...

Any so called "verbal agreement" is thrown out the window after the felonies were handed out... I can't believe that people are defending the twins as if they were perfect little angels and now the Suns FO is "screwing" them.

They aren't even that good.

This is exactly the thinking that has put the Suns FO in this situation in the first place. Don't agree to something that your going to back out of . Particularly as a business. "Well i'm backing out because you did this" is a childish excuse. Be an adult and stick to your word or at least communicate intentions.

You've gotta be **** kidding me. So if you get married and cheat on your wife with 10 different women and she wants a divorce, you would say that her backing out is childish nonsense? This is one of the more ridiculous things I've read in a while and I read many of those among these forums.

Of course when you select the most outlandish analogy out of context , it seems ridiculous. But when you look at my post in context in which i am referring to a contract situation ie. a Business agreement, there are ethics and professionalism to consider which are normally part of the organizations culture.


In regards to your analogy, i think the more relevant point is why were stupid enough to come to a committed agreement in the first place. To make your analogy more relevant, Morris brothers should have known who they were getting into bed with, and put the verbal agreement on paper.

[Safety Pickle]

Are you serious? Have you not seen any of the stuff they did this year? And they did not take a pay cut. 52 million for the two was a good deal for them. No one should ever think they can go through their career on some sort of buddy deal.

Steve Kyler: In sports thing change – but to Markieff Morris’ defense both he and his brother took less money to be on the same team. Not sure you can be mad at the guy for wanting out less than a year after telling them they’d be together going forward – via Twitter stevekylerNBA

Not that we really need citations for this. Even Marcus, the lesser of the two, was given a contract that was slightly above what would be a first overall draft pick contract scale. Im not sure if you've noticed contracts lately in the NBA (just look at RJ or Beldsoe or Parsons, etc) but even Marcus could have easily gotten 9. Evaluating this guy at a rookie contract is insane, there was clearly something off the side. Other reasons (aka, wanted to be with brother).

In the end the Suns ended up paying for two guys, at a cost of 3 million dollars less than Parsons or the relative same cost of Bledsoe (despite these undersized, quick, quick scoring, etc. PGs being a dime a dozen in the NBA right now) that combined were rather diverse in positions, worked very well together and posted combined numbers that were similar to a star, except with diverse positioning. There was clearly a trade off for both the players and the franchise and one seemingly did not respect that trade off.

Historically, teams have generally respected the brothers or twins thing. You can at the very least.... very...very....very... least make them aware of what your plans might be, allow them to have some level of input and put slightly more effort into helping someone who sacrificed for you. But hey, maybe this is why we've seen the Suns go from possibly going up the ladder tot he WCFs, to being a laughing stock. They have clearly not made one good decision since that 2013? season. Which is a shame, because there's so many great players on this team that deserve to be in a positive situation.

Markieff took a pay cut. Marcus did not. Either way though, yeah, to characterize the Suns as underhanded or dirty in this is laughable.

No one is suggesting that they did or did not deserve to be on the team or their actions did not contribute to one player being traded.
That's not what is being suggested and that is not the point.
The three parties involved signed their contracts under a general premise. If the Suns no longer wanted to deal with them or one of them, they should have respected that premise that the two players sacrificed for and at the very least involved them in the conversation. To move forward without doing this, yes, its very underhanded and unethical from a business standpoint.

This is such a backwards way of looking at player production and comparing stats to other players and there are so many things wrong here I'm gonna need to make a list

1. Markieff got underpaid, Marcus did not. Saying Marcus was underpaid because his contact matches that of the 1st overall pick is ridiculous. There are so many players in the league making ~5 mil/year that aren't the 1st overall pick. Are you saying they are all underpaid as well? You pay a guy based on his current production and what you think he will do in the future. There is absolutely no chance Marcus could have gotten 9 mil/year from any team. No chance

2. You can't compare the stats and contract of two players to that of a single player. This comparison is so flawed and makes zero sense. Bledsoe at 14 mil and Parsons at 15 is much better than the twins at 13, especially when you factor in all the bull you have to deal with that the twins bring

3. To say we didn't respect the tradeoff is insulting. We drafted Markieff, developed him, let Frye walk (who was a perfect fit next to Dragic), gave him the starting PF spot, made a trade for his twin brother who had showed nothing during his time in Houston, and then extended their contracts for 4 years because we thought they would be part of our future. After all that, how can you say that we disrespected them?

4. When the twins publicly bad mouth the fans, rack up an insane amount of technicals (to the point where we had to put a rule in place where you sit the rest of game if you get a tech), get in your coach's face and scream at him during a timeout, and beat the **** out of a dude to the point where you're facing felony assault charges, you lose the opportunity to be told what the plans are for the team for the future. At that you take what is given to you and should sure as hell keep your mouth shut, not whine to some reporter about how you were "disrespected" and how you'll only show up to camp when you're required to and how you will go out of your way to make the team hate your presence.

I was 100% behind Markieff before all this recent bullshitt started, even after the felony assault situation. I saw him as our starting PF of the future and I wanted to keep him around. But after all this nonsense about "disrespect" and how we treated them poorly I want him either traded or sent home. You can't whine about "disrespect" after you treat your coach, your teammates, and your fans all like garbage, and then try to play the victim.

/end rant

[Safety Pickle]

This is exactly the thinking that has put the Suns FO in this situation in the first place. Don't agree to something that your going to back out of . Particularly as a business. "Well i'm backing out because you did this" is a childish excuse. Be an adult and stick to your word or at least communicate intentions.

You've gotta be **** kidding me. So if you get married and cheat on your wife with 10 different women and she wants a divorce, you would say that her backing out is childish nonsense? This is one of the more ridiculous things I've read in a while and I read many of those among these forums.

Of course when you select the most outlandish analogy out of context , it seems ridiculous. But when you look at my post in context in which i am referring to a contract situation ie. a Business agreement, there are ethics and professionalism to consider which are normally part of the organizations culture.


In regards to your analogy, i think the more relevant point is why were stupid enough to come to a committed agreement in the first place. To make your analogy more relevant, Morris brothers should have known who they were getting into bed with, and put the verbal agreement on paper.

This is beyond hilarious that you are bringing up "ethics" and "professionalism" when talking about the Morris twins. I literally can't even.

Please give me an example of any other workplace where you can scream at your boss (yelling at the coach), get fined time and time again (technicals), talk **** about your clients (badmouthing the fans), and then go out and beat the **** out of someone and face felony assault charges all while simultaneously trying to play the victim. In literally any other job you would instantly be fired and no one would feel sorry for you. But this is somehow a different situation, and we're the bad guys for not telling him we were shipping his ass off. Right

[bwgood77]

Hurrah for safety pickle's thoughts.

[Blkbrd671]

This is beyond hilarious that you are bringing up "ethics" and "professionalism" when talking about the Morris twins. I literally can't even.

Please give me an example of any other workplace where you can scream at your boss (yelling at the coach), get fined time and time again (technicals), talk **** about your clients (badmouthing the fans), and then go out and beat the **** out of someone and face felony assault charges all while simultaneously trying to play the victim. In literally any other job you would instantly be fired and no one would feel sorry for you. But this is somehow a different situation, and we're the bad guys for not telling him we were shipping his ass off. Right

LOL

Hey man Suns FO is the one who signed him to the contract, maybe they should have done their due diligence on the twins. Also in America, you innocent until proven guilty, pretty sure the DOL would have somethign to say about that. Furthermore no ones firing him, they are trading him. Absolutely different

You can huff and puff all you want, but if Suns FO verbally committed to keeping the twins together as part of them signing the deal and they went back on that agreement. Its unethical and unprofessional from a business stand point. That's pretty much a fact.

[Leapinlarry22]

Marcus Morris is lucky he wasn't cut or at least suspended when he got in coach Hornacek's face during a timeout. Many players argue with their coach but he got heated got in his face and was very threatening, had he not been held back he may have hit him. Marcus is a thug, has absolutely no self-control, and both twins should've known the writing was on the wall after he did that. I would have no respect for the Suns if they allowed their coach to be treated like that and did not get rid of the player. Good luck Pistons.

Oh and as far as his game, when he tries he can defend. offensively he has a spot up game, but the only move he has with the ball in his hand is a one dribble step back jumper, and literally nothing else. He's also very much a ball stopper on offense. At the very best he is a role player off the bench because he is capable of getting hot from three every once in a while.


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