Who's your whipping boy

[bwgood77]

I love how our FO should be hanged after 2 years of average, but Philly and Minny are being championed for the hot garbage their teams have been..... It's not even a "they're young we're not" thing, it's a "I only see the highlights of their squads but I watch ours every day" thing.....

Minnesota tanked the right way. They have arguably the two top players in the league under 20 (KAT and Wiggins). They brought back Garnet to finish his career and mentor the youngsters. They have a pass first PG to get everyone involved. They have a handful of other young players with rotational potential.

Minnesota's future is bright.

Minnesota has bright young players, but two years ago we probably went into the season trying to go young and tank more than Minnesota who wanted to keep Love and be competitive. As a matter of fact they had a very hot start but they went like 2-10 in 3 point games or something and ended up around 500 and had a slightly better pick than us, getting LaVine instead of Warren.

It's just that they traded their star (Love) for a former #1 pick, which is a very rare occurence, and then tanked last year and got very lucky to win the lottery.

[Revived]

I love how our FO should be hanged after 2 years of average, but Philly and Minny are being championed for the hot garbage their teams have been..... It's not even a "they're young we're not" thing, it's a "I only see the highlights of their squads but I watch ours every day" thing.....

Minnesota has Andrew Wiggins who has more value than all Suns players combined x2. I'm not exaggerating either.

Any garbage team that has a young rising potential superstar is going to be "championed" for their success.

Agreed on Philly but if Okafor and that wonderful LAL pick that we gifted them pan out then Hinkie will be crowned as well.

[saintEscaton]

I love how our FO should be hanged after 2 years of average, but Philly and Minny are being championed for the hot garbage their teams have been..... It's not even a "they're young we're not" thing, it's a "I only see the highlights of their squads but I watch ours every day" thing.....

Minnesota has Andrew Wiggins who has more value than all Suns players combined x2. I'm not exaggerating either.

Any garbage team that has a young rising potential superstar is going to be "championed" for their success.

Agreed on Philly but if Okafor and that wonderful LAL pick that we gifted them pan out then Hinkie will be crowned as well.

Also Noel>Len hands down thus far.

[MrMiyagi]

I love how our FO should be hanged after 2 years of average, but Philly and Minny are being championed for the hot garbage their teams have been..... It's not even a "they're young we're not" thing, it's a "I only see the highlights of their squads but I watch ours every day" thing.....

Minnesota has Andrew Wiggins who has more value than all Suns players combined x2. I'm not exaggerating either.

Any garbage team that has a young rising potential superstar is going to be "championed" for their success.

Agreed on Philly but if Okafor and that wonderful LAL pick that we gifted them pan out then Hinkie will be crowned as well.

My main beef isn't so much strategy (which, I think it's safe to say is well worn ground at this point), it's the time permitted for the strategy. The Hinkie regime comes in to Philly, brand spankin' new and he'll probably be GM there for the next 3 or 4 seasons regardless of the **** he puts on the floor. McD comes here to Phoenix, says he wants to get younger, more athletic, does it, has instant success and is punished for it when we have a slight regression one year later, and people start demanding we fire him or Horny or both. It makes no sense.

We've got a really good stable of young guys that I think people don't appreciate just how young and good they really are. I think this season we'll get to see them jell and get into the playoffs, but it seems that it won't matter, because instead of talking about the possibility of taking the next step next season, people will bitch about a first round exit and drool all over some kid who's doing well in college that will definitely be better than anyone on our roster could ever hope to be.

[MrMiyagi]

I love how our FO should be hanged after 2 years of average, but Philly and Minny are being championed for the hot garbage their teams have been..... It's not even a "they're young we're not" thing, it's a "I only see the highlights of their squads but I watch ours every day" thing.....

Minnesota has Andrew Wiggins who has more value than all Suns players combined x2. I'm not exaggerating either.

Any garbage team that has a young rising potential superstar is going to be "championed" for their success.

Agreed on Philly but if Okafor and that wonderful LAL pick that we gifted them pan out then Hinkie will be crowned as well.

Also Noel>Len hands down thus far.

And after one year, Tyreke Evans > James Harden hands down.

Actually Len and Noel's number are more similar than you'd think, though Len fouled a lot more and Noel got more steals, Len has better rebounding numbers, shooting percentages and a better post game than Noel. But f*ck it let's call it a loss because we see Noel's highlights and see Len every night.

[Revived]

I love how our FO should be hanged after 2 years of average, but Philly and Minny are being championed for the hot garbage their teams have been..... It's not even a "they're young we're not" thing, it's a "I only see the highlights of their squads but I watch ours every day" thing.....

Minnesota has Andrew Wiggins who has more value than all Suns players combined x2. I'm not exaggerating either.

Any garbage team that has a young rising potential superstar is going to be "championed" for their success.

Agreed on Philly but if Okafor and that wonderful LAL pick that we gifted them pan out then Hinkie will be crowned as well.

My main beef isn't so much strategy (which, I think it's safe to say is well worn ground at this point), it's the time permitted for the strategy. The Hinkie regime comes in to Philly, brand spankin' new and he'll probably be GM there for the next 3 or 4 seasons regardless of the **** he puts on the floor. McD comes here to Phoenix, says he wants to get younger, more athletic, does it, has instant success and is punished for it when we have a slight regression one year later, and people start demanding we fire him or Horny or both. It makes no sense.

We've got a really good stable of young guys that I think people don't appreciate just how young and good they really are. I think this season we'll get to see them jell and get into the playoffs, but it seems that it won't matter, because instead of talking about the possibility of taking the next step next season, people will bitch about a first round exit and drool all over some kid who's doing well in college that will definitely be better than anyone on our roster could ever hope to be.

I don't think many people will be bitching if this teams develops its players and makes playoffs even if it ends up being a first round exit. I think people will bitch if we fall short again and getting the worst draft pick out of all lottery teams like we have gotten the past 5 years (exception: 2013).

Both Philly and Phoenix are taking different paths to rebuilding. Philly is doing by solely playing their really young guys and a team that has little to no vets playing. Phoenix is doing it by playing the vets as well as squeezing in minutes for the really young guys like Warren, Len, and now maybe Booker(?). Philly doesn't care if they lose, they want to keep getting high draft picks til they get that Anthony Davis type player while Phoenix wants to make playoffs so that their really young guys are growing up and being developed in a winning environment. There are risks to both. For Philly, obviously, the risk is just sucking every year and never finding that Anthony Davis type franchise talent ending up in a bunch of wasted seasons. For Phoenix, the risk is not making playoffs every year and none of their really guys end up turning into stars which results in a bunch of wasted seasons.

For the record, I liked McD until he got too cute with the IT signing and the 3 PG disaster and I didn't like how he managed the Dragic situation either. However that said, I don't have as much of a problem with his other moves. I dislike Hornacek a lot more than I dislike McD.

[MrMiyagi]

Minnesota has Andrew Wiggins who has more value than all Suns players combined x2. I'm not exaggerating either.

Any garbage team that has a young rising potential superstar is going to be "championed" for their success.

Agreed on Philly but if Okafor and that wonderful LAL pick that we gifted them pan out then Hinkie will be crowned as well.

My main beef isn't so much strategy (which, I think it's safe to say is well worn ground at this point), it's the time permitted for the strategy. The Hinkie regime comes in to Philly, brand spankin' new and he'll probably be GM there for the next 3 or 4 seasons regardless of the **** he puts on the floor. McD comes here to Phoenix, says he wants to get younger, more athletic, does it, has instant success and is punished for it when we have a slight regression one year later, and people start demanding we fire him or Horny or both. It makes no sense.

We've got a really good stable of young guys that I think people don't appreciate just how young and good they really are. I think this season we'll get to see them jell and get into the playoffs, but it seems that it won't matter, because instead of talking about the possibility of taking the next step next season, people will bitch about a first round exit and drool all over some kid who's doing well in college that will definitely be better than anyone on our roster could ever hope to be.

I don't think many people will be bitching if this teams develops its players and makes playoffs even if it ends up being a first round exit. I think people will bitch if we fall short again and getting the worst draft pick out of all lottery teams like we have gotten the past 5 years (exception: 2013).

Both Philly and Phoenix are taking different paths to rebuilding. Philly is doing by solely playing their really young guys and a team that has little to no vets playing. Phoenix is doing it by playing the vets as well as squeezing in minutes for the really young guys like Warren, Len, and now maybe Booker(?). Philly doesn't care if they lose, they want to keep getting high draft picks til they get that Anthony Davis type player while Phoenix wants to make playoffs so that their really young guys are growing up and being developed in a winning environment. There are risks to both. For Philly, obviously, the risk is just sucking every year and never finding that Anthony Davis type franchise talent ending up in a bunch of wasted seasons. For Phoenix, the risk is not making playoffs every year and none of their really guys end up turning into stars which results in a bunch of wasted seasons.

For the record, I liked McD until he got too cute with the IT signing and the 3 PG disaster and I didn't like how he managed the Dragic situation either. However that said, I don't have as much of a problem with his other moves. I dislike Hornacek a lot more than I dislike McD.

Exactly, there are risks to both of the plans, but it just seems like so many more people think that the plan McD has instituted should bear fruit instantantly or it's a bust, which is ridiculous because it's still a rebuild even though we didn't fall to the bottom of the standings.

And for me, Horny is on a hotter seat - and should be - than McD. He's drafted well, Len will be a good NBA center, TJ is looking like a stud, Booker is already shooting sharp, Archie might only become slashing version of Gerald Green, but that's still pretty good at 29th overall. The IT kerfuffle could've been handled better, but that was still a steal of a contract, not to mention Kieff's deal now that Tristan Thompson is getting $82 million.

I mean, if we land LMA, we're all giddy with playoff aspirations and pushing for a championship run over the next 3 seasons. We still have a shot to get someone next offseason. We have such an underrated collection of good young players it's ridiculous.

[RaisingArizona]

Surprised to see Knight so high. He's barely had an opportunity here yet.

[Moochthemonkey]

Until Minnesota, Orlando, Philadelphia, New Orleans, and Sacramento, Utah reach the playoffs and start winning games, they are not any less or any more irrelevant than the Suns are. as of right now, it doesn't matter a single flaming ostrich f*ck how young, how many high draft picks, and prospective talent they have, because all those assets are just that for the time being; prospects. They haven't proven anything other than being branded media darlings. tbh, I don't understand why supposed fans of this team (or any team for that matter. I know similar behavior occurs on other forums) still follow despite being vehemently against 90% of the moves the FO has made over the past several seasons. Perhaps out of some misplaced sense of loyalty, but at the end of the day it's just entertainment that has no real bearing on your life, a rather silly thing to being loyal about so if you are so distressed then I don't see the point in following until brighter days are ahead. I'm overall disappointed in the FO's moves, yes, but I still highly enjoy and am excited for going to games, even if the roster and future is far from ideal.

[saintEscaton]

Throw everyone under the bridge IMO. Equal culpability for now

[Mulhollanddrive]

James Harden and LeMarcus Aldridge.

[DRK]

Knight for me. I really dont like his game at all.

Not an elite ball handler, not a great defender, terrible finisher at the rim, cant run an offence, lacks strenght in all areas, low Bball IQ, and makes up half of our gimmick undersized backcourt. I would rather start Weems or Booker than Knight.


Im not one to wish bad on a player, and I hope he proves me wrong. But to me he is the definition of an overpaid meh player.

Fears confirmed tonight. Cant pass the ball, turnover prone. I know its the first game of the season, but his ability to run as offence isnt magically going to come during the season... I hate this trade more and more.

[blacksun]

I really think Knight and the team would benefit for him in a sixth man role. Start Book or Weems over him.

Also, am I the only one starting to hate on Mirza Teletovic? Dude seems to be all talk no game so far.

[bwgood77]

I really think Knight and the team would benefit for him in a sixth man role. Start Book or Weems over him.

Also, am I the only one starting to hate on Mirza Teletovic? Dude seems to be all talk no game so far.

Well he has sucked, and the Knight trade seems like it sucked, but one game into the season it's a little bit silly to jump to conclusions. I don't expect much from either, but I hope to be happily surprised.

[TeamTragic]

Tucker during last season. Hornacek this season. Obligatory hate for Sarver

[Revived]

Bwgood can you add Teletovic to the poll and reset the votes, I bet we would see different results...

[bwgood77]

Bwgood can you add Teletovic to the poll and reset the votes, I bet we would see different results...

Well since I didn't start the thread and there are so many votes already, I'd rather not start it. Plus it's really only one game, so as bad as Telly has looked, I can't imagine he would be people's biggest problem. The guy has NEVER been that good so what did people expect?

But back to the whipping boy, as much as I think Sarver has been the problem by trying to compete too long with declining players like Nash, Scola, Gortat and Dudley who were never going to get out of the first round even IF they made the playoffs, and hiring guys that signed Beasley and drafted Marshall, these things are really the things that started to set us back.

McD has screwed up a bit too. He tries to go young and put a raw product on the floor to get a high draft pick and develop some younger guys (but guys without TOO much upside like Plumlee), but Hornacek overachieves with that group and creates good chemistry.

Then that chemistry is torn apart and a THIRD pg signing really makes things ugly on the court, and people are not happy with their roles, so he goes back to try and re-create the chemistry from the year before by unloading a likely high draft pick and a young passing pg to get a guy that probably doesn't have a TON of upside and he gets a pretty fat contract. At the same time, after signing the twins to a combined contract (very bad idea) he tears it apart a year later (yes, twins are to blame too) but if he is going to tear it apart, he needs to get rid of both. I still have a hard time trading Kieff for unequal value, but if his play is really anything like last night going forward, he may not have much value anyway, and if that's the case, McD screwed up big time and we have a GLARING hole at PF.

If Kieff doesn't get back to form or we don't get some value for him in a trade, this roster won't be close to the playoffs.

[bigfoot]

Reset the poll since things have changed a bit over the past few weeks ... just major players now.


Here was the previous poll

[Christine-In-AZ]

I'm not sure if "whipping boy" is the term you're looking for with this poll.

[Calvin Klein]

at this moment, is anybody not gonna vote for Kieff??