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If Brandon Knight was on the block could he currently net us an unprotected pick from a likely lottery team?

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Could Knight currently net us an unprotected pick from a likely lottery team?

Yes
10
24%
No
32
76%
 
Total votes: 42

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Re: If Brandon Knight was on the block could he net us an unprotected pick? 

Post#21 » by lilfishi22 » Thu Aug 4, 2016 12:23 am

MrMiyagi wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
I hope he can get better, but the last two years he's been traded and been out with injuries for for quite a bit of the time we've had him, and hasn't posted particularly good numbers if you dig at all deeper than the surface. I think as time goes on with the new cap, his value will rise, but picks and rookie contracts value have probably risen more than his value will, so despite another poster bringing up trades that may have happened in the old cap era, I think things have changed in relation to how highly teams will value picks and rookie contracts.

Hopefully he plays well enough this year to where he does have decent trade value so if we feel we have enough firepower at the guard position we can trade him if there is a worthy offer.

That's a great point which I've not taken into account.

But have vets on good deals risen in value proportionally to rookies - especially with the level of rawness rookies have? There is always a team who'd rather trade a lottery pick for a more proven player because they think they're close to a playoff push. Not to mention talks of a new CBA. Will rookies get bigger contracts and will it happen before next year's draft?

I'd certainly argue that most teams would pay a premium for a known quantity that would help the team rather than lay low and hope their pick gets them a contributor. With that lens on, team would likely prefer to pay (to an extent) a premium for a proven player on a great deal when other teams are shelling out much bigger bucks for marginally better players. Teams which have also missed out in FA and were left to either sign an average player for more than they are worth or do nothing, would be a lot more interested in trading for a young player than obtaining a pick.

With so much money going around, I think most teams are less attracted to cheaper but slow to develop potential contributors. Only a few teams are taking the slow route like us.
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Re: If Brandon Knight was on the block could he net us an unprotected pick from a likely lottery team? 

Post#22 » by sleepyvato » Thu Aug 4, 2016 3:28 am

I voted no, because currently Knight's value is at an all time low. If by mid-season or by the end of the season, he has significantly improved his play then I could see a team giving us an unprotected lottery pick for him.
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Re: If Brandon Knight was on the block could he currently net us an unprotected pick from a likely lottery team? 

Post#23 » by aIvin adams » Fri Aug 5, 2016 5:47 pm

no, not from a likely lottery team

from an unlikely lottery team, yes... but only if the GM is dumb.

otherwise a late first... yah probably.

i think he's going to have a good year tho. we'll seeeeeee.
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Re: If Brandon Knight was on the block could he currently net us an unprotected pick from a likely lottery team? 

Post#24 » by Mulhollanddrive » Sat Aug 6, 2016 9:54 am

I'd be surprised if a worse player than Brandon Knight has ever been traded for an unprotected lottery pick.

But there are a lot of dumb GMs on bad teams.

I think if he's moved by deadline, I'd be happy with replicating the past draft model, get a late lottery pick and try to move up into the top 10. This is the year with several star calibre players to be in the top 10 twice.
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Re: If Brandon Knight was on the block could he currently net us an unprotected pick from a likely lottery team? 

Post#25 » by theSUNalsoRISES » Sat Aug 6, 2016 1:21 pm

teams value current picks too highly to make available. I doubt anyone would get a current unprotected lottery pick. Dragic got us a future, but not current. And after the brooklyn nets-garnett fiasco I doubt you'll see any future unprotected picks get traded from now on.
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Re: If Brandon Knight was on the block could he currently net us an unprotected pick from a likely lottery team? 

Post#26 » by jcsunsfan » Sat Aug 6, 2016 9:51 pm

Mulhollanddrive wrote:I'd be surprised if a worse player than Brandon Knight has ever been traded for an unprotected lottery pick.

But there are a lot of dumb GMs on bad teams.

I think if he's moved by deadline, I'd be happy with replicating the past draft model, get a late lottery pick and try to move up into the top 10. This is the year with several star calibre players to be in the top 10 twice.


The Phoenix Suns today traded center Kurt Thomas and two future first-round draft picks to the Seattle SuperSonics for a future conditional second-round pick. In addition to salary cap relief, the trade leaves Phoenix with an $8 million trade exception for their use in future dealings.


http://www.nba.com/suns/news/thomas_trade_070720.html

Does this qualify?
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Re: If Brandon Knight was on the block could he currently net us an unprotected pick from a likely lottery team? 

Post#27 » by bwgood77 » Sat Aug 6, 2016 10:05 pm

jcsunsfan wrote:
Mulhollanddrive wrote:I'd be surprised if a worse player than Brandon Knight has ever been traded for an unprotected lottery pick.

But there are a lot of dumb GMs on bad teams.

I think if he's moved by deadline, I'd be happy with replicating the past draft model, get a late lottery pick and try to move up into the top 10. This is the year with several star calibre players to be in the top 10 twice.


The Phoenix Suns today traded center Kurt Thomas and two future first-round draft picks to the Seattle SuperSonics for a future conditional second-round pick. In addition to salary cap relief, the trade leaves Phoenix with an $8 million trade exception for their use in future dealings.


http://www.nba.com/suns/news/thomas_trade_070720.html

Does this qualify?


Jazz also got two unprotected first rounders to take Biedrins, Jefferson and Rush from GS. Teams that consider themselves contenders by adding a guy with the extra cap space have done it. And Sarver of course.
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Re: If Brandon Knight was on the block could he currently net us an unprotected pick from a likely lottery team? 

Post#28 » by Mulhollanddrive » Sun Aug 7, 2016 6:30 am

I don't think Thomas and Biedrens netted unprotected lottery picks though.

So be interesting to find a worse player than Brandon Knight that got an unprotected pick from a lottery team.

I have Philadelphia, Charlotte, NY, Orlando, NO as the best possibilities - Generally these teams are in win now mode, but still middling enough, have their future 1sts, and starter guard position that can be upgraded.
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Re: If Brandon Knight was on the block could he currently net us an unprotected pick from a likely lottery team? 

Post#29 » by No-Man » Sun Aug 7, 2016 9:26 am

the better question is which team might have interest in a guy like Knight, now and going forward and what they could offer.

Brooklyn, pretty much nothing to offer, best assets are Rondaé, LeVert and Bogdanovic, I wouldn't give Hollis-Jefferson for Knight If I am the Nets.

Chicago, they never trade their own picks, they have SAC's pick top10 protected for another year and if it doesnt convey it turn into two 2nds, they could include that, Rondo will be needed salary wise+doesnt make sense in CHI anyway (you can just cut him, has only 3m$ guaranteed in 17-18), young pieces that they might trade, Valentine, Snell, Portis, Zipser, Grant (doubt they include Mirotic or Felicio).

Dallas, pretty much nothing to offer cant trade our pick til draft night, since we traded ours this year, Justin Anderson and Dwight Powell are the best we got in terms of young talent and they are both defensive guys that I think we need more this year than Knight, so, difficult.

Houston, would need to include some sort of mix of Brewer, McDaniels, Dekker, Harrell, Onuaku/Qi's rights, and their 1st next year, doubt they would want to include Bev/Ariza and you could get more interesting young guys or 2nd round picks for taking on Brewer.

New Orleans, pretty much nothing to offer, it would have to be a 3 team trade or something with Jrue going to another team, doubt they are stupid enough to trade their 1sts again, unless you will be willing to take on Asik of course.

New York, doubt the Rose experiment comes to fruition but still the Knicks got nothing to trade that they would trade for Knight.

Orlando, they might eventually give up on Payton, but as of now it seems difficult to see them as trade partners.

Philadelphia, I think you could get Noel, not many teams have a place for Okafor right now, and they surely would move one before the season starts, maybe you can get one of their Guards as an extra piece, like Stauskas, they have the space to absorb Knight's deal.

Sacramento, they should not target Knight with Afflalo and Gay there, but they are the Kings, some sort of mix between Gay/Koufos deals, McLemore/Richardson, Skal, Lamar Patterson.

San Antonio, they could totally use a guard with legs and quickness like Knight, but salary wise it cant work unless Parker is involved and there is no way they will move him, trading Danny Green will make them worse defensively there so it doesnt work either.

So best case scenarios as of now to choose from,

Rondo+SAC's 2017 top10 protected 1st (likely two 2nd rounders)+Valentine+Snell for Knight+Goodwin, they will likely ask for some extra like Archie if you ask for Valentine, thats my guess

Brewer+Dekker+Harrell+Houston's 2017 1st round pick top10 protected for Knight+Jenkins+Williams (you will have to cut them anyway) if there's a way you can get Onuaku or Qi even by giving up Archie I'd do it.

Noel(RFA next summer)+Stauskas for Knight

some weird mix from the Kings, likely best price is McLemore(RFA next summer) and some really raw guys from this year's draft in that case
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Re: If Brandon Knight was on the block could he currently net us an unprotected pick from a likely lottery team? 

Post#30 » by King4Day » Mon Aug 8, 2016 12:10 am

0 chance.
A few months ago, the belief was that we'd have to give up assets to dump him.
Then it became, him being dealt as part of a deal for Okafor (I was on this train).
I don't believe that, just because the cap increased, his value is much improved. Since the league is clogged with guards, I don't think we'll be able to deal him for an unprotected first without him rebuilding his value first. Even then it'll be tough.
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Re: If Brandon Knight was on the block could he currently net us an unprotected pick from a likely lottery team? 

Post#31 » by lilfishi22 » Mon Aug 8, 2016 1:08 am

DarkHawk wrote:0 chance.
A few months ago, the belief was that we'd have to give up assets to dump him.
Then it became, him being dealt as part of a deal for Okafor (I was on this train).
I don't believe that, just because the cap increased, his value is much improved. Since the league is clogged with guards, I don't think we'll be able to deal him for an unprotected first without him rebuilding his value first. Even then it'll be tough.

It certainly hasn't increased in value to the point where offers are going to come flying left and right but now that there's a lot more money going around his deal has gone from overpaid to good value. He's not on a bargain deal but I feel he has higher value now because his deal is no longer viewed as an overpay.

We'll definitely be building up his value this upcoming season and seeing what's out there.
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Re: If Brandon Knight was on the block could he currently net us an unprotected pick from a likely lottery team? 

Post#32 » by Frank Lee » Mon Aug 8, 2016 4:12 am

theSUNalsoRISES wrote:teams value current picks too highly to make available. I doubt anyone would get a current unprotected lottery pick. Dragic got us a future, but not current. And after the brooklyn nets-garnett fiasco I doubt you'll see any future unprotected picks get traded from now on.



Id think its more likely Knight gets traded for a player, than a good pick. Rookie scale deals, if they do not change, are bargains. Maybe a pick gets tacked on, but it wont be the focal point. In any case, he needs to play some smart valuable ball for us through december, and then reassess his situation/value. Right now, he's 50cents on the dollar, and McMully laid out some coin to get him. Gotta see what he bought
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Re: If Brandon Knight was on the block could he currently net us an unprotected pick from a likely lottery team? 

Post#33 » by sunsbg » Mon Aug 8, 2016 10:07 am

Barbosa is still capable of playing effectively for 15-20 minutes as a backup, which is not a good sign for the playing time of Goodwin. Archie should still have some positive trade value, so I would package him with Knight to increase the chance to land a late lottery pick in 2017 draft.
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Re: If Brandon Knight was on the block could he currently net us an unprotected pick from a likely lottery team? 

Post#34 » by bwgood77 » Mon Aug 8, 2016 2:28 pm

sunsbg wrote:Barbosa is still capable of playing effectively for 15-20 minutes as a backup, which is not a good sign for the playing time of Goodwin. Archie should still have some positive trade value, so I would package him with Knight to increase the chance to land a late lottery pick in 2017 draft.


Yeah, if a team for whatever reason wants Goodwin, they could go for him. At this point most teams would probably rather use the roster spot on a rookie or undrafted free agent who has more upside.

When McD unleashes the NEW Brandon Knight we've never seen, Barbosa shouldn't really see the floor either, because our other three guards need 30+ minutes, Maybe about 5 minute a game and nights where they take an off night due to a nagging injury or something.
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Re: If Brandon Knight was on the block could he net us an unprotected pick? 

Post#35 » by Resistance » Tue Aug 9, 2016 9:08 am

LV-Suns wrote:We got a top-9 pick for Kieff and he was a total malcontent all season. I think we can at least get that, top 5 protected best case scenario. Any GM that gives out unprotected picks needs to be fired immediately.



I wouldn't consider a mediocre Ernie Grunefeld to be a benchmark of what other front offices would do in a trade. The Nets replacing Billy King moved Grunefeld one step closer to the bottom of the list of NBA executives.
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Re: If Brandon Knight was on the block could he currently net us an unprotected pick from a likely lottery team? 

Post#36 » by Qwigglez » Tue Aug 9, 2016 10:29 am

I could see Sixers working a deal mid-season if Okafor with Simmons/Noel/Embiid doesn't work out. Would probably be Okafor/Bayless for Knight/Goodwin. Possibly have to add a pick or a couple 2nd rounders going towards the 76ers.

Then possibly trade Chandler to the Rockets for Brewer and maybe KJ McDaniels.

Our roster would then look like this...
Bledsoe/Book/Warren/Dudley/Len
Bayless/LB/Tucker/Bender/Okafor

with eventually Dudley getting pushed out of the starting lineup (and possibly move to backup SF) for Bender/Chriss. I have Okafor as our primary weapon off the bench, but he could start over Len, just depends how much defense we want.
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Re: If Brandon Knight was on the block could he currently net us an unprotected pick from a likely lottery team? 

Post#37 » by NavLDO » Tue Aug 9, 2016 1:34 pm

Frank Lee wrote:
theSUNalsoRISES wrote:teams value current picks too highly to make available. I doubt anyone would get a current unprotected lottery pick. Dragic got us a future, but not current. And after the brooklyn nets-garnett fiasco I doubt you'll see any future unprotected picks get traded from now on.



Id think its more likely Knight gets traded for a player, than a good pick. Rookie scale deals, if they do not change, are bargains. Maybe a pick gets tacked on, but it wont be the focal point. In any case, he needs to play some smart valuable ball for us through december, and then reassess his situation/value. Right now, he's 50cents on the dollar, and McMully laid out some coin to get him. Gotta see what he bought


Bledsoe and Knight for Westbrook--done! LOL! Actually, it isn't funny at all that we are paying a guy who averages just over a half season of play as a starter and...well, Knight, the same money OKC are paying Westbrook. They'd make that trade, right? :noway:
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Re: If Brandon Knight was on the block could he currently net us an unprotected pick from a likely lottery team? 

Post#38 » by bwgood77 » Tue Aug 9, 2016 2:53 pm

NavLDO wrote:
Frank Lee wrote:
theSUNalsoRISES wrote:teams value current picks too highly to make available. I doubt anyone would get a current unprotected lottery pick. Dragic got us a future, but not current. And after the brooklyn nets-garnett fiasco I doubt you'll see any future unprotected picks get traded from now on.



Id think its more likely Knight gets traded for a player, than a good pick. Rookie scale deals, if they do not change, are bargains. Maybe a pick gets tacked on, but it wont be the focal point. In any case, he needs to play some smart valuable ball for us through december, and then reassess his situation/value. Right now, he's 50cents on the dollar, and McMully laid out some coin to get him. Gotta see what he bought


Bledsoe and Knight for Westbrook--done! LOL! Actually, it isn't funny at all that we are paying a guy who averages just over a half season of play as a starter and...well, Knight, the same money OKC are paying Westbrook. They'd make that trade, right? :noway:


No they wouldn't, but they would in a heartbeat if they'd seen the new unleashed Brandon Knight that McD is talking about, the man player never seen.
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Re: If Brandon Knight was on the block could he net us an unprotected pick? 

Post#39 » by bwgood77 » Tue Aug 9, 2016 2:55 pm

Resistance wrote:
LV-Suns wrote:We got a top-9 pick for Kieff and he was a total malcontent all season. I think we can at least get that, top 5 protected best case scenario. Any GM that gives out unprotected picks needs to be fired immediately.



I wouldn't consider a mediocre Ernie Grunefeld to be a benchmark of what other front offices would do in a trade. The Nets replacing Billy King moved Grunefeld one step closer to the bottom of the list of NBA executives.


Exactly, plus it wasn't a top 9 pick but a top 9 protected pick in a bad draft that could have easily ended up outside of the lottery had they won a few more games. That pick wasn't particularly all that valuable on it's own, but of course helped us trade up into the top 8, though we did give up another first rounder and a player we had overseas we'd been wanting to bring over.
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Re: If Brandon Knight was on the block could he currently net us an unprotected pick from a likely lottery team? 

Post#40 » by jcsunsfan » Tue Aug 9, 2016 5:02 pm

It seems that the situation is just not right yet to trade Knight. His value needs to go up a little, and other teams have to get a little hungrier. Philly is the best trade partner, but I am sure, with the Colangelos and all, the conversation is awkward.

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