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Rank the players you'd most like to still be on the team two years from now

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Re: Rank your favorite players 

Post#21 » by ImNotMcDiSwear » Wed Dec 28, 2016 6:15 pm

cosmofizzo wrote:Warren
Len
Ulis
Bender
Booker
Chriss
Dudley
Knight
Barbosa
Bledsoe
Jones
Chandler
Tucker
Jenkins


Today my list goes: Ulis, Bender, Len and the rest. Like many an emotional fan, my list changes by the game. I was really, really disappointed in TJ's effort level the other night against Houston. Great players don't take games off. And Devin, hit the three.

A lot of our players aren't sprinting. You know who does? Tyler Ulis and players who play with Tyler Ulis. Coach, please let me watch Tyler Ulis basketball. When we got down 30 against Houston, I just wanted to see coach put Tyler in the game. I understand you have veterans on the team man, but be honest with yourself and your squad: these players have not won games. It's time to give the kid a chance. I know and you know he's shown up on the court and in practice. You can keep Bledsoe on this roster if Tyler plays 20 minutes a game. If that's hard to do, you trade Bledsoe.

Same goes for Len and Chandler. Len's better. He should start.

Make the switch, coach.
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Re: Rank the players you'd most like to still be on the team two years from now 

Post#22 » by Damkac » Wed Dec 28, 2016 8:31 pm

Booker
Bender
Warren
Ulis
Chriss
Len
Dudley
Barbosa
Bledsoe
Chandler
Tucker
Knight
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Re: Rank the players you'd most like to still be on the team two years from now 

Post#23 » by LacosteM » Wed Dec 28, 2016 9:04 pm

Booker/Bender
Warren
Len
Chriss
Ullis
Dudley
Barbosa
Bledsoe
Chandler
Tucker
Knight
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Re: Rank the players you'd most like to still be on the team two years from now 

Post#24 » by Mulhollanddrive » Thu Dec 29, 2016 7:40 am

Tier 1 - Young All-Star Upside
Warren
Booker
Chriss
Bender
--------
Tier 2 - Fill A Starting Spot
Bledsoe
Len
--------
Tier 3 - Replacable Role Players
Ulis
Jones
Williams
Jenkins
Tucker
Barbosa
Knight
Dudley
Chandler
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Re: Rank the players you'd most like to still be on the team two years from now 

Post#25 » by TheFire » Thu Dec 29, 2016 3:32 pm

Tier 1 - Core of the future

Booker (still a big believer)
Warren
Bender
Chriss

Tier 2 - Still uncertain if they are part of the long term plan

Len
Bledsoe
Ulis

Tier 3 - Role players
Dudley
Chandler
Knight
Barbosa
Williams
Tucker
Jenkins
Jones
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Re: Rank the players you'd most like to still be on the team two years from now 

Post#26 » by DirtyDez » Thu Dec 29, 2016 11:08 pm

In no order: Booker, Bender, Ulis, 2017 1st and possibly Bledsoe depending on that pick. Not high on Warren or Len. Still early for Bender/Chriss.
fromthetop321 wrote:I got Lebron number 1, he is also leading defensive player of the year. Curry's game still reminds me of Jeremy Lin to much.
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Re: Rank the players you'd most like to still be on the team two years from now 

Post#27 » by Phoenix-Sons » Thu Dec 29, 2016 11:58 pm

DirtyDez wrote:In no order: Booker, Bender, Ulis, 2017 1st and possibly Bledsoe depending on that pick. Not high on Warren or Len. Still early for Bender/Chriss.

2017 pick is going places man :lol:
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Re: Rank the players you'd most like to still be on the team two years from now 

Post#28 » by DirtyDez » Fri Dec 30, 2016 12:09 am

Phoenix-Sons wrote:
DirtyDez wrote:In no order: Booker, Bender, Ulis, 2017 1st and possibly Bledsoe depending on that pick. Not high on Warren or Len. Still early for Bender/Chriss.

2017 pick is going places man :lol:


He'll be nothing compared to the guy we draft with the Heat pick in 2021.
fromthetop321 wrote:I got Lebron number 1, he is also leading defensive player of the year. Curry's game still reminds me of Jeremy Lin to much.
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Re: Rank the players you'd most like to still be on the team two years from now 

Post#29 » by Phoenix-Sons » Fri Dec 30, 2016 12:13 am

DirtyDez wrote:
Phoenix-Sons wrote:
DirtyDez wrote:In no order: Booker, Bender, Ulis, 2017 1st and possibly Bledsoe depending on that pick. Not high on Warren or Len. Still early for Bender/Chriss.

2017 pick is going places man :lol:


He'll be nothing compared to the guy we draft with the Heat pick in 2021.

Speaking of the Heat I don't see anyway they rebuild on the fly in the next year or so. I don't think Dragic is a good trade chip, Whiteside seems like a stat stuffer, and Justice Winslow's jumpshot is broken.

Thanks Miami!
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Re: Rank the players you'd most like to still be on the team two years from now 

Post#30 » by TheSunGod » Fri Dec 30, 2016 4:50 pm

Booker
Bender
Chriss
Warren
Ulis
Len
Jones
Dudley
Barbosa
Williams
Bledsoe
Chandler
Jenkins
Tucker
Knight
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Re: Rank the players you'd most like to still be on the team two years from now 

Post#31 » by blacksun » Sat Dec 31, 2016 3:03 am

Definitely yes:
Booker
Warren
Bender
Ulis
Dudley
Williams

Wouldnt mind:
Len
Chandler
Chriss
Bledsoe

Dont care:
Jones
Jenkins
Barbosa

Hell no:
Knight
Tucker
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Re: Rank the players you'd most like to still be on the team two years from now 

Post#32 » by lilfishi22 » Wed Jan 4, 2017 10:52 pm

Bender
Booker
Warren
Ulis
Len - on a reasonable deal
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Re: Rank the players you'd most like to still be on the team two years from now 

Post#33 » by batsmasher » Fri Mar 31, 2017 2:38 am

Seeing as we're approaching the end of the season and the tank is out, how have people's rankings changed?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

--- Tier 1 (keep at all costs) ---

Bender (-) - Still think unicorn potential
TJ (-) - Still extremely good at what he does and not appreciated enough league wide


--- Tier 2 (would prefer them here but would send em packing for the right price) ---

Booker (-) - Elite scorer.. but staying in this tier because I don't think he's our way to a championship and his value is sky high
Chriss (↑ 1) - Massive way to go... but the growth he's showing is promising. Rebounding/ BBIQ still anchoring him.
Derrick Jones Jr. (-) - Still athletic af. Plenty to work with.
Sauce Williams (↑ 2) - Going to be a high energy backup... hopefully on a nice contract
Ulis (↓ 1) - Shown he's no more than a serviceable/good backup


--- Tier 3 (don't care either way) ---

Bledsoe (-) - Best season lost in the tank. Makes you wonder if we can ship him for something which better fits our timeline.
Dudley (-) - I need more JMZ


-- Tier 4 (meh tier) ---

Len (↓ 2) - Who knows if it was Chandler who killed him, but he's dead.
Jenkins

--- Tier 5 (won't be on the team) ---

Knight
PJ
Chandler
LB
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Re: Rank the players you'd most like to still be on the team two years from now 

Post#34 » by GMATCallahan » Fri Mar 31, 2017 8:03 pm

Three months ago, I ranked the young players as follows (I did not bother with the veterans):

Booker, Chriss, Bender, Len, Ulis, and Warren.

I would now go ...

Booker, Chriss, Bender, Warren, Ulis, and Len.
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Re: Rank the players you'd most like to still be on the team two years from now 

Post#35 » by NTB » Fri Mar 31, 2017 8:07 pm

Booker - Chriss - Bender - Ulis - Warren - Williams
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Re: Rank the players you'd most like to still be on the team two years from now 

Post#36 » by GMATCallahan » Fri Mar 31, 2017 8:24 pm

batsmasher wrote:Seeing as we're approaching the end of the season and the tank is out, how have people's rankings changed?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

--- Tier 1 (keep at all costs) ---

Bender (-) - Still think unicorn potential
TJ (-) - Still extremely good at what he does and not appreciated enough league wide


--- Tier 2 (would prefer them here but would send em packing for the right price) ---

Booker (-) - Elite scorer.. but staying in this tier because I don't think he's our way to a championship and his value is sky high
Chriss (↑ 1) - Massive way to go... but the growth he's showing is promising. Rebounding/ BBIQ still anchoring him.
Derrick Jones Jr. (-) - Still athletic af. Plenty to work with.
Sauce Williams (↑ 2) - Going to be a high energy backup... hopefully on a nice contract
Ulis (↓ 1) - Shown he's no more than a serviceable/good backup


I agree that Booker is not going to score the Suns to a championship (or even a playoff berth) by himself, but the same is true of Warren, only he cannot create his own offense like Booker and cannot nearly pass as well as Booker, either. Plus, he is three years older.

I believe that Booker should be untouchable; the only way that he would be worth trading would be for a player that will not be available, anyway. Granted, I suppose that one could look back at the Suns trading a twenty-three-year old, second-year Michael Finley to Dallas twenty seasons ago as part of a package that netted a twenty-three-year old Jason Kidd. Finley was not nearly the pure shooter that Booker happens to be, but he was much more athletic, far better defensively, and a better all-around player. However, I do not see the equivalent to a twenty-three-year old Kidd in today's game. Today's rising point guards are much better shooters and scorers than Kidd, but they do not pass like him. The closest analogy among a relatively young point guard would be John Wall, but he turns twenty-seven before next season, and even Wall attempts a lot of field goals by traditional standards. (For instance, his career average for FGA per game is higher than Kevin Johnson's single-season high—despite not being remotely as good of a shooter.)

Now that Warren has mercifully reduced his three-point volume, he is indeed "extremely good at what he does," but whether "what he does" can make a major impact on winning games remains uncertain.

As for Bender, I would go with Booker over him in large part because Booker is a known quantity. Bender's upside could be greater, but he also could be a jack-of-all-trades, master-of-none complementary type. Truth be told, we may not know for about four more years, at least.
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Re: Rank the players you'd most like to still be on the team two years from now 

Post#37 » by TheFire » Fri Mar 31, 2017 8:31 pm

I have it as:

Booker, Chriss, Bender, Warren, and Ulis.

^This is our core of the future in addition to the '17 pick. It looks a lot better than it did 4-5 years ago.
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Re: Rank the players you'd most like to still be on the team two years from now 

Post#38 » by Zelaznyrules » Fri Mar 31, 2017 8:43 pm

batsmasher wrote:Ulis (↓ 1) - Shown he's no more than a serviceable/good backup


Interesting. I would have said the opposite. For a first year player with very little talent around him I thought he played very well. I know there have been a lot of successful players through the years that have failed to match Tyler's first season. In fact, I still have high hopes for Bender and Chriss and IMO Tyler has outplayed both of them.

His body isn't fully mature, that's clear, and adding some muscle should help him quite a bit. And he needs a big man to run the two man game with him and give him an easy target down low but he's shown he's clearly capable of feeding that guy. Williams provided that target for a few games although the defense is no longer letting him have his way there but he won't always be the best we have available.
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Re: Rank the players you'd most like to still be on the team two years from now 

Post#39 » by Zelaznyrules » Fri Mar 31, 2017 8:54 pm

There are a lot of players I hope to still see in a Suns uniform in a few years but to me, only Booker falls in the untouchable category. Behind him, I'd rank them as Warren, Ulis, Chriss, Bender and, much further down the list, Jones JR. I'm also okay if any combination of Williams, Len, Bledsoe, Barbosa or Dudley are still on the roster 2 years from now.

If I were ranking value based on possible up-side, I'd go with Booker, Chriss, Bender, Len, Warren, Ulis, Jones Jr with the 2017 pick having value somewhere in between Booker and Len.
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Re: Rank the players you'd most like to still be on the team two years from now 

Post#40 » by GMATCallahan » Fri Mar 31, 2017 9:17 pm

Zelaznyrules wrote:
batsmasher wrote:Ulis (↓ 1) - Shown he's no more than a serviceable/good backup


Interesting. I would have said the opposite. For a first year player with very little talent around him I thought he played very well. I know there have been a lot of successful players through the years that have failed to match Tyler's first season. In fact, I still have high hopes for Bender and Chriss and IMO Tyler has outplayed both of them.

His body isn't fully mature, that's clear, and adding some muscle should help him quite a bit. And he needs a big man to run the two man game with him and give him an easy target down low but he's shown he's clearly capable of feeding that guy. Williams provided that target for a few games although the defense is no longer letting him have his way there but he won't always be the best we have available.


Ulis' True Shooting Percentage this season is .446, which is absolutely atrocious for any kind of significant sample; despite Chriss' inconsistency, I would say that he has outplayed Ulis by a significant margin. In fact, when Chriss has played at least 30 minutes, he has averaged 15.8 points, 6.3 rebounds, a .527 field goal percentage, a .382 three-point field goal percentage, and a .618 True Shooting Percentage, while also averaging over one blocked shot and one steal.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/chrisma01/splits/2017

And when he has played at least 20 minutes, Chriss has shot .373 on threes.

Ulis sports a terrific assists-to-turnover ratio and a decent steals rate. He can distribute the ball—he is averaging 9.1 assists when he plays at least 30 minutes—but given his defensive vulnerabilities, he is going to need to become a much more efficient scorer in order to be anything better than a backup or even a marginal backup. Otherwise, Ulis is basically no better than a pint-sized passer that Phoenix briefly featured last season: Phil Pressey.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201602220LAC.html

I am not saying that Ulis cannot improve; I am just saying that he has not been especially effective as a rookie, despite his natural ability to distribute the ball.

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