Ranking the best young core's in the League right now

[thamadkant]

I agree with OP ranking accept for Denver. I dont think Jokic had proven anything yet. And I dont see him as that much different than Booker as far as potential goes. And I think our depth of youth and potential far outweighs denvers


And now that I think about it. I'm not so sure I would put Portland over us. But that may be a bit closer.

So I'd have Philly, Minny, Milwaukee, Phx, Portland, Denver.

Could be my familiarity with our roster, but just see them as more desirable.

Jokic is better than anyone on the Suns period.


He's a white Chris Webber with range... Perfect PF for today.


Sorry but Jokic has proven a lot....

Admittedly, his numbers were a bit higher than I thought they were last season. But my point is still is I don't see him being that much above Booker to offset the rest of the young pieces we have.

Proven a lot? He had a very nice sophomore year, I wouldn't say that's "proven a lot". Many players start their careers well and then crumble. And I don't mean this to be solely for Jokic, I mean this for Booker, and Warren, and every other young player here. Jokic has a ton of potential and like I said his numbers were better than I realize this past season. But I feel like he's entering Porzingis territory when it comes to the hypemachine.

His numbers are great.


But watching him... Its like watching a mini Sabonis slash Webber.... He's fantastic up there with Porzingis and KAT in my books as under 23 MVP candidates of the future.

[Phystic]

Jokic is better than anyone on the Suns period.


He's a white Chris Webber with range... Perfect PF for today.


Sorry but Jokic has proven a lot....

Admittedly, his numbers were a bit higher than I thought they were last season. But my point is still is I don't see him being that much above Booker to offset the rest of the young pieces we have.

Proven a lot? He had a very nice sophomore year, I wouldn't say that's "proven a lot". Many players start their careers well and then crumble. And I don't mean this to be solely for Jokic, I mean this for Booker, and Warren, and every other young player here. Jokic has a ton of potential and like I said his numbers were better than I realize this past season. But I feel like he's entering Porzingis territory when it comes to the hypemachine.

His numbers are great.


But watching him... Its like watching a mini Sabonis slash Webber.... He's fantastic up there with Porzingis and KAT in my books as under 23 MVP candidates of the future.

Don't get me wrong, he's loaded with potential. I just don't think he's totally proven anything. He had a good year, but I don't view that as enough. But as I said, my original post was moreso I don't think the difference in Jokic and Booker overcomes the amount of youth and potential the Suns rosters currently has

[kennydorglas]

i'm completely fine with our core right now. We have a bunch of guys who couldnt even buy a drink.
the learning curve for those guys can be HUGE.

[Mulhollanddrive]

Teams with the best All-Star potentials (drafted since 2013):

1. Milwuakee - Giannis, Parker
2. Minnesota - Towns, Wiggins
3. Philadelphia - Fultz, Simmons, Embiid
4. Phoenix - Booker, Jackson, Chriss
5. Denver - Jokic
6. Sacramento - Fox, Hield, Labissiere
7. Lakers - Ball, Ingram
8. Boston - Tatum, Brown

[Zelaznyrules]

Teams with the best All-Star potentials (drafted since 2013):

1. Milwuakee - Giannis, Parker
2. Minnesota - Towns, Wiggins
3. Philadelphia - Fultz, Simmons, Embiid
4. Phoenix - Booker, Jackson, Chriss
5. Denver - Jokic
6. Sacramento - Fox, Hield, Labissiere
7. Lakers - Ball, Ingram
8. Boston - Tatum, Brown

This seems reasonable but maybe it's a hometown bias but I think Ulis has as much of a chance to make the all star team as Hield does. I know, he's short. But he's two years younger than Buddy and I think he had at least as good of a first season as Buddy did. And then there's Bender...

[bwgood77]

Draft is over -- how do you guys think our young core compares to others around the league.... for the purposes of this I'm cutting a line at age 25.... everything under that I'm calling a young core player, everything over... I'm not counting. Also not looking at future draft assets on this list, just players currently on the rosters.



the contenders

Boston
Players
James Young, Jayson Tatum, Terry Rozier, Jaylen Brown

Sixers
Players
Stauskas, Ben Simmons, Saric, Poythress, Okafor, Fultz, Embiid, Justin Anderson, Luwawu-Cabarrot, Richaun Holmes, TJ Mcconnell

Milwaukee
Players
Giannis, Malcolm Brogdon, Thon Maker, Khris Middleton, Jabari Parker, Gary Payton II, DJ Wilson

Portland
Players
Nurkic, Swanigan, Zach Collins, Maurice Harkless, Vonleh, Allen Crabbe, CJ McCollum, Napier

Minnesota
Tyus Jones, Shabazz Muhammad, KAT, Wiggins, Justin Patton

Denver
Players
Jamal Murray, Mudiay, Trey Lyles, Tyler Lydon, Jokic, Juan Hernangomez, Gary Harris

Sactown
Players
Cauley-Stein, De'Aaron Fox, Harry Giles, Buddy Hield, Justin Jackson, Labissiere, Frank Mason III, Georgis Papagiannis, Malachi Richardson

PHX
Players
Bender, Booker, Chriss, JJackson, DJJR, Len, Peters, Warren, Ulis, Reed, Knight


My initial rankings
1. Sixers
Just so much raw talent. Hard for to rank anyone else here. Health could be an issue, but it seems like Simmons, Embiid and Fultz all have franchise altering potential; Saric has already proven to be a valuable NBA wing. They found good contributers at other spots like TJ McConnell

2. Minnesota
Not as many assets - but KAT is a top ~15ish player in the league, averaged 25/12... the best player on this list. Wiggins is a more than capable sidekick throwing in 23 PPG, again this isn't as deep of a core as others on this list, but its the best 1-2 punch.

3. Milwaukee
The presence of Giannis is enough to push them to this spot for me, its unfortunate that Parker hasn't always stayed healthy, but he's a really good scorer. Middleton is a well rounded player.

4. Portland
Going back to a 1-2 punch, I love McCollum and pairing him with Nurkic is a really strong foundation (Lillard is 26 btw). Not as deep of a group, but the top-two are very good.

5. Denver
Jokic is a stud and easily one of the best players on this list.

6. Phoenix
A little lower for me because I don't think we have a guy on the KAT, Giannis, McCollum, Jokic level RIGHT NOW. Booker could be that guy, but he's not on their tier IMO. We have as much depth in our young core as anyone, but we really don't know yet with guys like Bender/Chriss/Jackson.

7. Sacramento
They've pretty quietly built up an interesting group of young athletic dudes, I'd be pretty excited if I was a Kings fan in this post-Cousins era

8. Boston
Most of their core guys are over 25.

Great thread and well thought out post...personally I think you have Denver way too low. I like your list, but I would probably put Denver and Milwaukee up there in the discussion for 1 or 2. In theory Philly is 1. But all we've seen of Simmons, Fultz and Embiid in the NBA is 33 games of Embiid. This means that we are just going on speculation of the last two #1 picks. So arguably I think you could put either higher.

Bucks...I mean if you still have MIddleton in there plus Giannis, Parker, Thon, Brogdon?

Denver has Jokic, who, like you said, is one of the best players on this list, and probably is, right now, outside of a healthy Embiid. Harris is insanely underrated and was better than Booker on offense and defense this year....not saying I'd take him over Booker but you'd think I was talking defense mostly, but from advanced perspective it's offense where there is a larger gap where Harris is on top, at least according to BPM.

http://bkref.com/tiny/vjIPc

Murray is good too.

Towns is really good, but by no real measure is better than Jokic. You take LaVine off Minnesota and don't include Butler due to age they drop a bit for me, definitely below Denver, Philly and Milwaukee.

I think the rest after those four are all in the mix....a fan of any team would rank their's the best because they know their players...none have a great enough player to vault then into that three like Embiid, Jokic or Giannis. And then Towns puts Minny 4th.

I am very happy with out team though and think we could be special but everyone is still a pretty big question mark when it comes down to it. No one is really proven yet outside of possibly Booker and Warren.

[MrMiyagi]

SUNS HAVE THE BEST YOUNG CORE IN THE LEAUGE. PERIOD.

[Moochthemonkey]

if we're going for quantity, Sixers. if we're going for overall quality, Sixers.
if we're going for closest to contender status, then it's pretty obvious it's the Bucks (best record...of them all, Boston's 'core' isn't really young comparatively speaking). they have two of the blue chip players on this list (the other being KAT...not to say Booker, Jokic, Embiid & the like won't be there at some point). Brogdon was probably the best PG in the draft, Middleton is a solid 3-D guy, in a few years Giannis may be the best SF in the East, Maker and Parker aren't even close to their potential. but who knows. they've haven't made consecutive playoff appearances since 2004.

[LukasBMW]

Teams with the best All-Star potentials (drafted since 2013):

1. Milwuakee - Giannis, Parker
2. Minnesota - Towns, Wiggins
3. Philadelphia - Fultz, Simmons, Embiid
4. Phoenix - Booker, Jackson, Chriss
5. Denver - Jokic
6. Sacramento - Fox, Hield, Labissiere
7. Lakers - Ball, Ingram
8. Boston - Tatum, Brown

This seems reasonable but maybe it's a hometown bias but I think Ulis has as much of a chance to make the all star team as Hield does. I know, he's short. But he's two years younger than Buddy and I think he had at least as good of a first season as Buddy did. And then there's Bender...

Ulis played incredibly well for us to close out the year and he's not even old enough to drink yet.

And no mention of TJ? He was out best player before his "head" injury.

[batsmasher]

The Kings are (deservedly) being slept on at the moment, but the signs are all heading the right direction. I wouldn't be surprised if they are the bolter in these rankings by this time next year. Hield showed quite a bit late. Skal too. Fox will have the clearest role of any rookie.

Jokic's combination of passing, post skills and range is probably more valuable than Booker's skills, but that mainly comes down to how rare those skills are in a C.

With that being said, there's basically 0 defensive upside to him. At least the rebounding is there. Book is probably just as bad but it's definitely easier to hide a poor defensive 2 than it is to hide a poor defensive 5.

I'm much more inclined to take the physically gifted player who's shown signs of competence in key areas than I am a player who will always have guaranteed floors given their physical limitations. It's why I am much lower on both Ulis and Book than most Suns fans.

I just think that's the way the NBA is heading - the game's getting faster and floor spacing is making it easier to expose the questionable athletes defensively.

And of course it's why Giannis really does represent the future.

[Zelaznyrules]

Teams with the best All-Star potentials (drafted since 2013):

1. Milwuakee - Giannis, Parker
2. Minnesota - Towns, Wiggins
3. Philadelphia - Fultz, Simmons, Embiid
4. Phoenix - Booker, Jackson, Chriss
5. Denver - Jokic
6. Sacramento - Fox, Hield, Labissiere
7. Lakers - Ball, Ingram
8. Boston - Tatum, Brown

This seems reasonable but maybe it's a hometown bias but I think Ulis has as much of a chance to make the all star team as Hield does. I know, he's short. But he's two years younger than Buddy and I think he had at least as good of a first season as Buddy did. And then there's Bender...

Ulis played incredibly well for us to close out the year and he's not even old enough to drink yet.

And no mention of TJ? He was out best player before his "head" injury.

I kept looking at his list and I just knew someone was missing. I don't know how TJ escaped me. Anyway, I agree, Warren has to be on the list.

[Zelaznyrules]

The Kings are (deservedly) being slept on at the moment, but the signs are all heading the right direction. I wouldn't be surprised if they are the bolter in these rankings by this time next year. Hield showed quite a bit late. Skal too. Fox will have the clearest role of any rookie.

Jokic's combination of passing, post skills and range is probably more valuable than Booker's skills, but that mainly comes down to how rare those skills are in a C.

With that being said, there's basically 0 defensive upside to him. At least the rebounding is there. Book is probably just as bad but it's definitely easier to hide a poor defensive 2 than it is to hide a poor defensive 5.

I'm much more inclined to take the physically gifted player who's shown signs of competence in key areas than I am a player who will always have guaranteed floors given their physical limitations. It's why I am much lower on both Ulis and Book than most Suns fans.

I just think that's the way the NBA is heading - the game's getting faster and floor spacing is making it easier to expose the questionable athletes defensively.

And of course it's why Giannis really does represent the future.

I agree with some of this (especially about Giannis) but I really think you're missing the boat on Booker, for sure, and possibly Ulis. It's too early for me to confidently state that Tyler can thrive despite his lack of height but when you talk about Hield finishing the season strongly, it looks to me like Ulis more than matched his performance. And the idea that a 21 year old has come close enough to his peak to actually know his ceiling baffles me.

With Booker, I think it helps if you throw out the stats, both the good and the bad, and just watch him. When his foot and/or ankle weren't a problem, he showed an elite level NBA skill with his effectiveness on that un-blockable mid-range shot. His ability to get into the air, reach his max shooting height and then release, is phenomenal and speaks to athletic gifts that rival the best in the game. And while his defense is scary bad at times, I think it's all fixable.

I don't buy it's a lack of twitch or effort or slow feet or anything like that; he falls for every pump fake and he's indecisive in PnR situations and with his defensive rotations. But with his label as a pure shooter, I think it's clear no one has really focused on developing him defensively. Warren, for similar reasons, was just as bad but this past season he finally showed significant improvement there. Devin will never be a lockdown defender but I expect him to at least be an average team defender, while continuing to display his ability to make the occasional highlight chase-down block.

Also, if you're one of those that tends to devalue the mid-range game, consider his free throws. He gets to his shooting point so quickly that he's already drawing almost 6 free throws per game and that's without an understanding of how to work the referees. He's just doing this naturally, he's not even looking for contact but players keep thinking they can block that shot and all they can find is his wrist.

Booker's efficiency numbers aren't pretty but IMO they become less of an issue when you consider his age, the defensive attention he received because of a lack of talent around him and the fact that he was hampered by that turf toe/ankle for much of the season. And the year before, as the youngest rookie in the game, he had even less talent around him and had to adjust to playing with Knight for part of the season while also having to adjust to running the offense at times. These things aren't revealed by stats and while some people, I'm sure, will write them off as excuses, they'd be quite wrong to do so IMO.

[bwgood77]

Teams with the best All-Star potentials (drafted since 2013):

1. Milwuakee - Giannis, Parker
2. Minnesota - Towns, Wiggins
3. Philadelphia - Fultz, Simmons, Embiid
4. Phoenix - Booker, Jackson, Chriss
5. Denver - Jokic
6. Sacramento - Fox, Hield, Labissiere
7. Lakers - Ball, Ingram
8. Boston - Tatum, Brown

This seems reasonable but maybe it's a hometown bias but I think Ulis has as much of a chance to make the all star team as Hield does. I know, he's short. But he's two years younger than Buddy and I think he had at least as good of a first season as Buddy did. And then there's Bender...

Well Hield did have a pretty good rookie season...from advanced stats perspective almost identical to Booker in his rookie season. Of course he's older, but I think we were pretty high on Booker after his rookie season. Hield shot FAR better from 3 though.....over 39% whereas Booker was around 34%.

http://bkref.com/tiny/03FqE

[kennydorglas]

The Kings are (deservedly) being slept on at the moment, but the signs are all heading the right direction. I wouldn't be surprised if they are the bolter in these rankings by this time next year. Hield showed quite a bit late. Skal too. Fox will have the clearest role of any rookie.

Jokic's combination of passing, post skills and range is probably more valuable than Booker's skills, but that mainly comes down to how rare those skills are in a C.

With that being said, there's basically 0 defensive upside to him. At least the rebounding is there. Book is probably just as bad but it's definitely easier to hide a poor defensive 2 than it is to hide a poor defensive 5.

I'm much more inclined to take the physically gifted player who's shown signs of competence in key areas than I am a player who will always have guaranteed floors given their physical limitations. It's why I am much lower on both Ulis and Book than most Suns fans.

I just think that's the way the NBA is heading - the game's getting faster and floor spacing is making it easier to expose the questionable athletes defensively.

And of course it's why Giannis really does represent the future.

Yeah, you can easily hide Book... hard to do that with Jokic unless your team is full of defensive aces.
Teams will just PNR him to death (like Portland did in that clutch game).

Jokic's offense is historically good tho but Denver will have to pick his partners very carefully.

[DirtyDez]

There's only 4 teams worth ranking; Sixers, Wolves, Bucks and Suns. Phoenix may have the deepest talent down the line but Philly has legit superstar star talent. Simmons is the next Magic and Embiid is the best big in the game at 100%. Fultz fits perfectly.

Giannis is the best player overall and Maker has upside. Towns/Wiggins offensively is hard to beat.

Sixers
Bucks
Suns/Wolves - Towns will put up numbers but will never have a Duncan/KG effect

Probably underrating the Nuggets if Murray becomes something.

[Moochthemonkey]

There's only 4 teams worth ranking; Sixers, Wolves, Bucks and Suns. Phoenix may have the deepest talent down the line but Philly has legit superstar star talent. Simmons is the next Magic and Embiid is the best big in the game at 100%. Fultz fits perfectly.

Giannis is the best player overall and Maker has upside. Towns/Wiggins offensively is hard to beat.

Sixers
Bucks
Suns/Wolves - Towns will put up numbers but will never have a Duncan/KG effect

Probably underrating the Nuggets if Murray becomes something.

quick to anoint Sixers players who haven't even played an NBA game but not KAT?

second year stats:

KG: 17 ppg/8 rpg/3 apg/2.6 bpg 50% fg
TD: 21.7 ppg/11.4 rpg/2.4 apg/2.5 bpg 50% fg
KAT: 25.1 ppg/12.2 rpg/2.7 apg/1.3 bpg 54% fg AND .37% 3fg

and Embiid is still a relatively big IF. a 7 footer playing in only 12.6% of games in 3 year is reason for concern.

[NTB]

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[DirtyDez]

There's only 4 teams worth ranking; Sixers, Wolves, Bucks and Suns. Phoenix may have the deepest talent down the line but Philly has legit superstar star talent. Simmons is the next Magic and Embiid is the best big in the game at 100%. Fultz fits perfectly.

Giannis is the best player overall and Maker has upside. Towns/Wiggins offensively is hard to beat.

Sixers
Bucks
Suns/Wolves - Towns will put up numbers but will never have a Duncan/KG effect

Probably underrating the Nuggets if Murray becomes something.

quick to anoint Sixers players who haven't even played an NBA game but not KAT?

second year stats:

KG: 17 ppg/8 rpg/3 apg/2.6 bpg 50% fg
TD: 21.7 ppg/11.4 rpg/2.4 apg/2.5 bpg 50% fg
KAT: 25.1 ppg/12.2 rpg/2.7 apg/1.3 bpg 54% fg AND .37% 3fg

and Embiid is still a relatively big IF. a 7 footer playing in only 12.6% of games in 3 year is reason for concern.

Everyone would take Towns over Embiid based on durability but Embiid is on another level as a complete player. Cousins was putting up better scoring numbers than Duncan/KG but nobody is confusing their impact.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/theringer.com/amp/p/8e14d8e954c0

[Moochthemonkey]

There's only 4 teams worth ranking; Sixers, Wolves, Bucks and Suns. Phoenix may have the deepest talent down the line but Philly has legit superstar star talent. Simmons is the next Magic and Embiid is the best big in the game at 100%. Fultz fits perfectly.

Giannis is the best player overall and Maker has upside. Towns/Wiggins offensively is hard to beat.

Sixers
Bucks
Suns/Wolves - Towns will put up numbers but will never have a Duncan/KG effect

Probably underrating the Nuggets if Murray becomes something.

quick to anoint Sixers players who haven't even played an NBA game but not KAT?

second year stats:

KG: 17 ppg/8 rpg/3 apg/2.6 bpg 50% fg
TD: 21.7 ppg/11.4 rpg/2.4 apg/2.5 bpg 50% fg
KAT: 25.1 ppg/12.2 rpg/2.7 apg/1.3 bpg 54% fg AND .37% 3fg

and Embiid is still a relatively big IF. a 7 footer playing in only 12.6% of games in 3 year is reason for concern.

Everyone would take Towns over Embiid based on durability but Embiid is on another level as a complete player. Cousins was putting up better scoring numbers than Duncan/KG but nobody is confusing their impact.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/theringer.com/amp/p/8e14d8e954c0

agreed about Embiid, but it's hypothetical at this point. I wasn't saying Towns has Duncan/KG impact, but there certainly is more evidence that he's closer to attaining such a level compared to someone who hasn't played in the NBA yet as becoming the next Magic Johnson.

[batsmasher]

And while his defense is scary bad at times, I think it's all fixable.

I don't buy it's a lack of twitch or effort or slow feet or anything like that; he falls for every pump fake and he's indecisive in PnR situations and with his defensive rotations. But with his label as a pure shooter, I think it's clear no one has really focused on developing him defensively. Warren, for similar reasons, was just as bad but this past season he finally showed significant improvement there. Devin will never be a lockdown defender but I expect him to at least be an average team defender, while continuing to display his ability to make the occasional highlight chase-down block.

Also, if you're one of those that tends to devalue the mid-range game, consider his free throws. He gets to his shooting point so quickly that he's already drawing almost 6 free throws per game and that's without an understanding of how to work the referees. He's just doing this naturally, he's not even looking for contact but players keep thinking they can block that shot and all they can find is his wrist.

Booker's efficiency numbers aren't pretty but IMO they become less of an issue when you consider his age, the defensive attention he received because of a lack of talent around him and the fact that he was hampered by that turf toe/ankle for much of the season. And the year before, as the youngest rookie in the game, he had even less talent around him and had to adjust to playing with Knight for part of the season while also having to adjust to running the offense at times. These things aren't revealed by stats and while some people, I'm sure, will write them off as excuses, they'd be quite wrong to do so IMO.

The same can be said for Ulis, re: stats. He doesn't pass the eye test as an NBA defender. Sure, he pressures like crazy and you could argue that's why he gets beat so easily. You could also argue his lack of weight is hurting him heavily (it definitely is - needs at least 15-20lbs more because of his limiting frame). To see him figuring it all out given how far away he is at this time is why I'm not high on in. Then you add in the shooting struggles and it becomes a much harder sell.

I think you're bang on the money re: defensive development with Book. If you look at tape of his weaknesses coming out of college, they are exactly the same as now. I think the way he uses his quickness offensively is promising, but also worrying that none of it has translated defensively. It just looks like he reads most situations 0.5 seconds slower than a normal NBA defender. Can that be fixed? Sure. But something has to give if he's going to spend as much energy as he does on offense.

You can say that comes down to him not having the talent around him to save some energy offensively. I don't disagree - but if we're going to view this guy as a #1 option offensively he'll need to improve his productivity offensively - become a better passer out of the PnR and maybe develop another move or two to get to the rim.

Again, my biggest concern in his development defensively is the lack of progress I've seen in the last 2 years. I think he'll learn how to use the freedom created by his killer jump shot and become a very very good limited dribble offensive player. IMO the best kind of backcourt player you can find for him is someone like George Hill - someone who can dig in defensively, spot up and get to the rim when necessary.