Is this 2021/22 Suns team the best Suns team ever?

[Slim Charless]

I still say that the best team we had was the Nash team that was screwed by the Spurs "fight"....we should've won the chip that year.

I'm surprised it took so long for somebody to bring this up. I feel that was our best team - even though I loved the Barkley Suns a bit more, they were my first basketball love, and that just hits different... But that Nash team changed the game and should have won it all, and would have won it all fair and square had it not been the Stern NBA... letter of the law my AAAAAAASSSSSSSSS
But yeah, what Slim said.

Oh, and happy Thanksgiving to all of our US posters.

Yeah, I think that was a team that easily would have won it all if not for the suspensions. We had tied it up, had 2 games at home and nearly beat them in game 5 without those guys. And then we would have crushed Utah and Cleveland.

However, in 95 we had a very tough team that had already been in the finals and lost to the Rockets after having a 2 game lead the year before and had a 2-0 and 3-1 lead and nearly won game 5. I felt we were easily the best team in the league that year as well as 2007. Those were the only two years I thought we were the best team in the league. I think we should have won that series but blew it and then game 7 game down basically to the last shot. We would have likely beaten SA as we always had their # in the 90s and then crushed Orlando.

This year as I mentioned, it's hard to say. We don't ever look like a great team outside of bits and pieces of games and 4th quarters and most of this is against bad teams so far. I think we are definitely good, but not sure how we would have looked against completely healthy Mavs and Nuggets teams. But since we are relying a lot on lack of health for wins as well, we also luckily probably get the Warriors twice before Klay returns and he may still be very rusty on Christmas Day.

I'd rather us have faced full strength and tougher teams though to get a better feel for how good we are and make us more battle tested. We should be able to beat NY though and Brooklyn without Kyrie, especially with Harden playing like he is.

I still hate Mario Elie, always will.

That said, while I think we would've won...it's tough. David Robinson and Shaq were waiting had we made it past the Rockets. Both of those guys would've ate Joe Klien for breakfast and had room for Danny Schayes (or whatever scrub we had starting for us at C).

I'm not 100% sure we make it to the finish line. Still sucks we lost that series.

Meanwhile I think we all know that Cleveland would've gotten smoked had Stern not **** us that series.

[Bogyo]

I'm surprised it took so long for somebody to bring this up. I feel that was our best team - even though I loved the Barkley Suns a bit more, they were my first basketball love, and that just hits different... But that Nash team changed the game and should have won it all, and would have won it all fair and square had it not been the Stern NBA... letter of the law my AAAAAAASSSSSSSSS
But yeah, what Slim said.

Oh, and happy Thanksgiving to all of our US posters.

Yeah, I think that was a team that easily would have won it all if not for the suspensions. We had tied it up, had 2 games at home and nearly beat them in game 5 without those guys. And then we would have crushed Utah and Cleveland.

However, in 95 we had a very tough team that had already been in the finals and lost to the Rockets after having a 2 game lead the year before and had a 2-0 and 3-1 lead and nearly won game 5. I felt we were easily the best team in the league that year as well as 2007. Those were the only two years I thought we were the best team in the league. I think we should have won that series but blew it and then game 7 game down basically to the last shot. We would have likely beaten SA as we always had their # in the 90s and then crushed Orlando.

This year as I mentioned, it's hard to say. We don't ever look like a great team outside of bits and pieces of games and 4th quarters and most of this is against bad teams so far. I think we are definitely good, but not sure how we would have looked against completely healthy Mavs and Nuggets teams. But since we are relying a lot on lack of health for wins as well, we also luckily probably get the Warriors twice before Klay returns and he may still be very rusty on Christmas Day.

I'd rather us have faced full strength and tougher teams though to get a better feel for how good we are and make us more battle tested. We should be able to beat NY though and Brooklyn without Kyrie, especially with Harden playing like he is.

I still hate Mario Elie, always will.

That said, while I think we would've won...it's tough. David Robinson and Shaq were waiting had we made it past the Rockets. Both of those guys would've ate Joe Klien for breakfast and had room for Danny Schayes (or whatever scrub we had starting for us at C).

I'm not 100% sure we make it to the finish line. Still sucks we lost that series.

Meanwhile I think we all know that Cleveland would've gotten smoked had Stern not **** us that series.

Thanks for making my points for me while I was sleeping over here in Europe. I woke up just checked B's reply to our post, and wanted to point out how you needed the dominant C for a while there to win in the Olajuwon/Shaq/Robinson+Duncan era after the Jordan era. And how we woukd have smoked the Cavs 4 - 0 with the Nash team. But you already did it for me.

Agreed on the latter parts. I would have liked our season better if we played healthy teams and could judge better where we are really at... Random offtopic now that you have mentioned him: is Harden still a top 10 player?

[bwgood77]

Yeah, I think that was a team that easily would have won it all if not for the suspensions. We had tied it up, had 2 games at home and nearly beat them in game 5 without those guys. And then we would have crushed Utah and Cleveland.

However, in 95 we had a very tough team that had already been in the finals and lost to the Rockets after having a 2 game lead the year before and had a 2-0 and 3-1 lead and nearly won game 5. I felt we were easily the best team in the league that year as well as 2007. Those were the only two years I thought we were the best team in the league. I think we should have won that series but blew it and then game 7 game down basically to the last shot. We would have likely beaten SA as we always had their # in the 90s and then crushed Orlando.

This year as I mentioned, it's hard to say. We don't ever look like a great team outside of bits and pieces of games and 4th quarters and most of this is against bad teams so far. I think we are definitely good, but not sure how we would have looked against completely healthy Mavs and Nuggets teams. But since we are relying a lot on lack of health for wins as well, we also luckily probably get the Warriors twice before Klay returns and he may still be very rusty on Christmas Day.

I'd rather us have faced full strength and tougher teams though to get a better feel for how good we are and make us more battle tested. We should be able to beat NY though and Brooklyn without Kyrie, especially with Harden playing like he is.

I still hate Mario Elie, always will.

That said, while I think we would've won...it's tough. David Robinson and Shaq were waiting had we made it past the Rockets. Both of those guys would've ate Joe Klien for breakfast and had room for Danny Schayes (or whatever scrub we had starting for us at C).

I'm not 100% sure we make it to the finish line. Still sucks we lost that series.

Meanwhile I think we all know that Cleveland would've gotten smoked had Stern not **** us that series.

Joe Kleine didn't play a ton that year. Didn't start in a couple games against them...4 minutes in 1 as we started AC Green and Tisdale. Another one we went smaller and Tisdale and Kleine came off the bench.

Orlando got swept in the finals against a team we should have beaten. SA would have been tough though...they did finish with 1 more win. It just seems like we had beaten them in the playoffs before...Barkley's shot over Robinson in 93 I think to win 3-1. It just felt we kind of had their playoff #..and they never seemed to be able to get over the hump into the playoffs until Duncan got there.

Thanks for making my points for me while I was sleeping over here in Europe. I woke up just checked B's reply to our post, and wanted to point out how you needed the dominant C for a while there to win in the Olajuwon/Shaq/Robinson+Duncan era after the Jordan era. And how we woukd have smoked the Cavs 4 - 0 with the Nash team. But you already did it for me.

Agreed on the latter parts. I would have liked our season better if we played healthy teams and could judge better where we are really at... Random offtopic now that you have mentioned him: is Harden still a top 10 player?

[TheLoon]

Most balanced? Maybe...best? I dunno...Nash Stat and Marion are better than Paul Ayton and Booker...ugh after I typed that Booker might give this team an edge...they haven't had a pure score like this ever...as far as the 93 squad goes...it's also super close but none of these Suns will go on to be Mayor of a big city...I guess I'm saying no wrong answers

[sunsbg]

A big part of my appreciation for DA is certainly caused by having to watch the likes of Mark West, Joe Kleine, Danny Schayes play C for the Suns in the 90s. Always felt not having a decent C was the reason for not winning a title. That was the case with Nash teams as well. We almost won a championship last year with Ayton playing like a star, but there are still people, who think Cs are not important anymore and don't deserve max, like that one guy with the tweet, which turned into a discussion.

[Qwigglez]

Without reading anyone else's responses I say yes, this is the Suns best team ever. Probably the deepest team I can think of, and I believe this team will end up with a franchise best record. I said it before the season started I thought this team would win 60+ games. Unlike some of the Nash-era teams this team doesn't have any egos and the roster consist of players that thoroughly enjoy each other's company, at least that's what it looks like to me.

[spanishninja]

Most balanced? Maybe...best? I dunno...Nash Stat and Marion are better than Paul Ayton and Booker...ugh after I typed that Booker might give this team an edge...they haven't had a pure score like this ever...as far as the 93 squad goes...it's also super close but none of these Suns will go on to be Mayor of a big city...I guess I'm saying no wrong answers

When it comes to 21/22 vs 06/07, Nash and Paul are a wash (maybe even an edge to Paul because his style suits playoff basketball), Ayton has an edge over Marion due to size, and Booker is better than Stoudemire in terms of all-around offensive skill. After that, Mikal edges out Raja because of his wingspan and offense, Barbosa edges out Cam Payne, and McGee is a wash with Diaw. I don't see anybody on the 06-07 team that could compare to CamJo, Kaminsky, or Crowder. This year's team is literally 10 deep.

Oh by the way, this year's team has a better coach who won't run the starters to the ground in the regular season and also cares about defense.

[Saberestar]

Most balanced? Maybe...best? I dunno...Nash Stat and Marion are better than Paul Ayton and Booker...ugh after I typed that Booker might give this team an edge...they haven't had a pure score like this ever...as far as the 93 squad goes...it's also super close but none of these Suns will go on to be Mayor of a big city...I guess I'm saying no wrong answers

When it comes to 21/22 vs 06/07, Nash and Paul are a wash (maybe even an edge to Paul because his style suits playoff basketball), Ayton has an edge over Marion due to size, and Booker is better than Stoudemire in terms of all-around offensive skill. After that, Mikal edges out Raja because of his wingspan and offense, Barbosa edges out Cam Payne, and McGee is a wash with Diaw. I don't see anybody on the 06-07 team that could compare to CamJo, Kaminsky, or Crowder. This year's team is literally 10 deep.

Oh by the way, this year's team has a better coach who won't run the starters to the ground in the regular season and also cares about defense.

Just for fun I want to make that comparison too.

IMO that 2006-07 Suns team was more fun to watch but this current 20021-22 Suns team is slightly better.

I prefer Monty Williams over D'Antoni and then we can make a simple comparison between both rosters to get some early conclusions.

The 2006-07 Suns team had six guys playing over 30 mpg. The starting five (Nash, Bell, Matrix, Diaw and STAT) and Barbosa.

After those six, James Jones and Kurt Thomas played around 18 mpg.

Banks was their 9th man in their rotation. He played 11 mpg on 49 games. After him, Jalen Rose appeared in just 29 games (around 8 mpg).

Current Suns have four guys playing over 30 mpg (Bridges, CP3, Book and Ayton) and five guys playing between 28 and 16 mpg (Crowder, Cam J, Shamet, Payne and McGee).

Kaminsky probably would have been part of the rotation every game but he has just played on 9 games because of his injury. The same can be said about Nader who is out with an injury too. Those can be considered their 10th and 11th man. And we need to remember that Saric is out too.

So all in all this current team looks deeper because they have at least one more solid usable player on their rotation game in and game out. You can put that on D'Antoni's mindset, IDK...your choice.

Comparing their Top 9 players:

Nash - CP3
Bell < Book
Marion > Mikal
Diaw - Crowder
STAT > Ayton

Banks < Payne
Barbosa > Shamet
James Jones < Cam J
Kurt Thomas - McGee

Tied.LOL.

I know that some players compared here had different roles and some players could have been compared with other players and all of that, but I think that changing it wouldn't alter a lot the simple results. Pretty even.

[Waylay13]

I think that term here is best team, not the most talented. I really think this may be the best team team that I have seen since 1989 as far as playing team ball. We see some many picks being set and the team playing together as a group.

[bwgood77]

Most balanced? Maybe...best? I dunno...Nash Stat and Marion are better than Paul Ayton and Booker...ugh after I typed that Booker might give this team an edge...they haven't had a pure score like this ever...as far as the 93 squad goes...it's also super close but none of these Suns will go on to be Mayor of a big city...I guess I'm saying no wrong answers

When it comes to 21/22 vs 06/07, Nash and Paul are a wash (maybe even an edge to Paul because his style suits playoff basketball), Ayton has an edge over Marion due to size, and Booker is better than Stoudemire in terms of all-around offensive skill. After that, Mikal edges out Raja because of his wingspan and offense, Barbosa edges out Cam Payne, and McGee is a wash with Diaw. I don't see anybody on the 06-07 team that could compare to CamJo, Kaminsky, or Crowder. This year's team is literally 10 deep.

Oh by the way, this year's team has a better coach who won't run the starters to the ground in the regular season and also cares about defense.

Just for fun I want to make that comparison too.

IMO that 2006-07 Suns team was more fun to watch but this current 20021-22 Suns team is slightly better.

I prefer Monty Williams over D'Antoni and then we can make a simple comparison between both rosters to get some early conclusions.

The 2006-07 Suns team had six guys playing over 30 mpg. The starting five (Nash, Bell, Matrix, Diaw and STAT) and Barbosa.

After those six, James Jones and Kurt Thomas played around 18 mpg.

Banks was their 9th man in their rotation. He played 11 mpg on 49 games. After him, Jalen Rose appeared in just 29 games (around 8 mpg).

Current Suns have four guys playing over 30 mpg (Bridges, CP3, Book and Ayton) and five guys playing between 28 and 16 mpg (Crowder, Cam J, Shamet, Payne and McGee).

Kaminsky probably would have been part of the rotation every game but he has just played on 9 games because of his injury. The same can be said about Nader who is out with an injury too. Those can be considered their 10th and 11th man. And we need to remember that Saric is out too.

So all in all this current team looks deeper because they have at least one more solid usable player on their rotation game in and game out. You can put that on D'Antoni's mindset, IDK...your choice.

Comparing their Top 9 players:

Nash - CP3
Bell < Book
Marion > Mikal
Diaw - Crowder
STAT > Ayton

Banks < Payne
Barbosa > Shamet
James Jones < Cam J
Kurt Thomas - McGee

Tied.LOL.

I know that some players compared here had different roles and some players could have been compared with other players and all of that, but I think that changing it wouldn't alter a lot the simple results. Pretty even.

I think I give the edge to the 06-07 team. I think the west was tougher than this banged up west. Dallas and SA were elite teams with two 8-15 players of all time.

That team had tons of playoff experience...Nash most of his career...Matrix with Kidd, both Amare and Matrix in 2003. I would love to see them battle though, but I don't really see this team stopping the Nash/Amare pick and roll and this team's biggest weakness is defending the 3, which is what that team did. Ayton is great at switching but when a team is shooting the ball in SSOL, then your great D is pretty marginalized.

I can't say yet that this team is better than multiple ex Suns teams that had numerous all star/all nba players and knocked out teams in the playoffs with top players of all time. The west was brutal in the 90s and mid 2000s (at least at the very top then).

I think the west would be really tough right now if Kawhi, Porter/Murray, Klay, etc, were healthy. You'd have us plus 4 other legit TOUGH teams in GS, Utah, Denver and the Clips. Now if all those teams are healthy and Klay/Murray come back (not sure about Porter) and especially if Kawhi comes back and we STILL are able to roll through the playoffs knocking out a couple of those teams at full strength, I will say this is the best Suns team of all time.

I think we could beat Denver and Utah at full strength. GS with Klay and the LAC with Kawhi...those would be VERY tough.

[handsome salary]

Best? Hard to say outright but right now they make me as hopeful for a championship at the end of the season as any team before. They definitely have the best defense of any Suns championship contending squads.

[TheLoon]

I think that term here is best team, not the most talented. I really think this may be the best team team that I have seen since 1989 as far as playing team ball. We see some many picks being set and the team playing together as a group.

This I can get behind...pure talent the Nash team wins but this team is so deep I don't worry about the bench

[King4Day]

Most balanced? Maybe...best? I dunno...Nash Stat and Marion are better than Paul Ayton and Booker...ugh after I typed that Booker might give this team an edge...they haven't had a pure score like this ever...as far as the 93 squad goes...it's also super close but none of these Suns will go on to be Mayor of a big city...I guess I'm saying no wrong answers

What if we compare the big 4 instead?

Nash / Paul
Marion / Bridges
Amar'e / Ayton
Johnson / Booker

Honestly, it's super close. If we kept Johnson, we may have had a ring or 2 so it's really hard to say. Fun to compare for sure!

[NapoleonII]

This current team is more suited for playoff basketball. SSOL ran teams into the ground in the reg season, but always came up a bit short. No excuses here, and I don't think it was the fault of anyone. We just didn't have as many half-court options as this current team - Marion was shut down HARD in a lot of series, especially against the Spurs, and a pretty mediocre spot-up shooter overall.

I don't think < > comparisons are that helpful.

Regarding PLAYOFF basketball, where two-way, half-court players, and "closers" like Book and CP3 are more valuable, here's my list.


Most valuable players, their imprint on a series, top 4 vs. 4?

1. Nash - he had some NASTY numbers for us in the playoffs. Basically, the best offensive force I've ever seen play the game. ​
2. CP3
3. Book
4. Ayton

5. STAT
6. Marion
7. Bridges
8. Bell


So our top 3 takes 3 of the 4 most valuable players. That’s enough where I comfortably pick this team every time.

Style-wise, we got Booker who is a star closer, clutch, and Ayton, who is a defensive anchor, both which were those 2007 Suns weaknesses, IMO, and which the Spurs exploited to no end.

[bwgood77]

Most balanced? Maybe...best? I dunno...Nash Stat and Marion are better than Paul Ayton and Booker...ugh after I typed that Booker might give this team an edge...they haven't had a pure score like this ever...as far as the 93 squad goes...it's also super close but none of these Suns will go on to be Mayor of a big city...I guess I'm saying no wrong answers

What if we compare the big 4 instead?

Nash / Paul
Marion / Bridges
Amar'e / Ayton
Johnson / Booker

Honestly, it's super close. If we kept Johnson, we may have had a ring or 2 so it's really hard to say. Fun to compare for sure!

Yeah, that 04-05 team was crushing people and Amare and JJ were super young. Of course Amare got injured but with him back we would have great. I remember them saying they would have still signed Raja even if they kept JJ so we still likely also do the Q/KT trade so could go with a small fast lineup of Nash/Raja/JJ/Marion/Amare or put KT when someone sat and slide people down. JJ could handle...have Barbosa too...and Dragic at some point. That's a lot of ifs though.

But just the 04-05 team...if they could still click against our team I think they win..Ayton would not be as effective defensively if the really shot within 7 seconds the majority of the time...maybe a slight deterrent to Amare finishing but probably not too much. Amare was thought of as one of the most dominant in the league. I remember after that season Bill Simmons I think had him #1 or #2 on his trade value rankings...I think ahead of Duncan and maybe behind LeBron...or vice versa...he wasn't any lower than 3rd I'm almost positive. He was a beast before he got injured and still really good for 4 years for us after.

[bwgood77]

This current team is more suited for playoff basketball. SSOL ran teams into the ground in the reg season, but always came up a bit short. No excuses here, and I don't think it was the fault of anyone. We just didn't have as many half-court options as this current team - Marion was shut down HARD in a lot of series, especially against the Spurs, and a pretty mediocre spot-up shooter overall.

I don't think < > comparisons are that helpful.

Regarding PLAYOFF basketball, where two-way, half-court players, and "closers" like Book and CP3 are more valuable, here's my list.


Most valuable players, their imprint on a series, top 4 vs. 4?

1. Nash - he had some NASTY numbers for us in the playoffs. Basically, the best offensive force I've ever seen play the game. ​
2. CP3
3. Book
4. Ayton

5. STAT
6. Marion
7. Bridges
8. Bell


So our top 3 takes 3 of the 4 most valuable players. That’s enough where I comfortably pick this team every time.

Style-wise, we got Booker who is a star closer, clutch, and Ayton, who is a defensive anchor, both which were those 2007 Suns weaknesses, IMO, and which the Spurs exploited to no end.

I don't know how much we slowed down in most of the rounds...and remember we were missing JJ in 05 and had the suspensions in 07..was Thomas out some too? Can't remember.

Anyway, I wonder how the Spurs and Mavs of 05-07 would have matched up vs the Bucks. They were certainly a lot better than any WC team we faced in the playoffs last year.

[DoItALL9]

Who (realistically) does this team need to be favorites vs GSW, BKN, & MIL?

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[SunsRback4Good]

Who (realistically) does this team need to be favorites vs GSW, BKN, & MIL?

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Nobody, we are already favorites to win it all. There are no cons on this team just pros.

[bwgood77]

Who (realistically) does this team need to be favorites vs GSW, BKN, & MIL?

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I don't know who were favorites going into the finals last year. I think we were and were up 2-0 winning fairly easily, with a bad game and then 3 close games that could have gone either way after that.

I think the main difference other than Giannis being himself and the main thing was how he uncharacteristically went 17-19 in game 6 from the line in a fairly close game.

But other than Giannis was our playoff inexperience of everyone but Crowder and Paul. No one else had ever even played in a playoff game and we know the Bucks took their lumps in the playoffs.

Brooklyn is tough for anyone if they were at full strength, but Harden doesn't look great any more. The Warriors are tough, and with Klay back if he's reasonably healthy I am not sure you expect anyone to really beat them since you have their main core from the 73 win team and Wiggins/Poole instead of Barnes....no Bogut but Looney is decent and they have pretty good depth. May depend somewhat on their young guys too.

I think a fully healthy Clippers team might be our toughest matchup along with a healthy GS since Kawhi is a beast in the playoffs.

But the Suns core is getting better and Paul's not really getting any worse..in fact last year was his best year in a while. But Shamet/Payne need to get better.

I think if the Suns can get someone like Thad Young in the buyout market it would be huge.

[Bogyo]

Who (realistically) does this team need to be favorites vs GSW, BKN, & MIL?

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Out of the somewhat realistic options its Thad Young (after buyout) or Torey Craig (trade if Pacers blow it up). Or anybody else who is like them in terms of being an overall good basketball player. We would mostly need a small-ball C who can play the 4 as well, and/or a strong, anthletic SF/PF bit of a 3/D wing who can get away playing C for a couple minutes if we are in a playoff battle like that.
Thad would be the better 5 who can be a 4 sometimes, and Craig would be the better 3/4 who can get away with being a 5 (as he did last year). If we got one of them and we are all healthy (Frank too), then we could throw any style at anybody for streches without any fears of being outplayed.