Game 20: Phoenix Suns (8-11) @ Washington Wizards (7-9)

Jdiddy701 · Post #201 » by **Jdiddy701** » Sat Dec 5, 2015 2:33 am

For everyone blaming Markieff, blame Tucker for the same reasons.. Oh and Jeff.

Get rid of them 3. Now.

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Sunsss · Post #202 » by **Sunsss** » Sat Dec 5, 2015 2:35 am

Some D-League teams may have more combined basketball IQ than us. Just unbelievable.

Post #203 » by **batsmasher** » Sat Dec 5, 2015 2:35 am

Bench Markieff. Tick.

Play Markieff with the starters in the 4th. Cross.

LukasBMW · Post #204 » by **LukasBMW** » Sat Dec 5, 2015 2:36 am

What in the hell did I just watch?

The Suns are an embarrassment and complete failure.

Why was Keef in over Leur?
Why was PJ in over TJ?
What the hell in wrong with Hornacek?

I'm really starting to hate this team.

No excuse for this garbage.

sunskerr · Post #205 » by **sunskerr** » Sat Dec 5, 2015 2:37 am

I'd say 20 games is enough sample size to say with confidence that Markieff is a negative on both defense and offense and Tucker is a negative on offense. See: Basketball Reference.

Even without Chandler, from a perspective of "pathetic-ness", that was the worst loss of the season.

I hope the boys get it together soon, but Leuer and TJ have been better than Kieff/PJ going back to preseason.

Post #206 » by **batsmasher** » Sat Dec 5, 2015 2:38 am

3 guard small ball made little sense. The paint was wide open on D in the 4th.

Cutter · Post #207 » by **Cutter** » Sat Dec 5, 2015 2:39 am

I have never before said what I am about to say.

I am turning against Jeff Hornacek as coach.

Post #208 » by **bwgood77** » Sat Dec 5, 2015 2:39 am

jeff2020 wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
Matt1979 wrote:WTF!?!?!?!?!?

PLEASE let that be the final nail in Jeff's coffin. I despite the clown!

Because Knight missed a couple of free throws? I don't care what happens at this point. I just can't believe we are stuck with Bledsoe and Knight for the next 5 years. They will put up amazing stats sometimes, but neither are much of team players.

And one of the best pgs in history had no interest in knight as his pg of the future? Shouldn't that be a tip off? I think McD just looks at box scores and looks at these trades like its NBA 2k or something. I mean this is really a joke how poorly this team is constructed

Yeah, if you really go through his trades, he really didn't win many, and he's surely pissed off a bunch of players. He got Bledsoe for Dudley, but Bledsoe is likely not a guy that will ever lead a team to win a playoff series. Knight, same thing. I was hoping with both of them, maybe we would have ball movement, but then it ends up with two guys playing hero ball. It's just like when teammates watch Kobe or Melo....when you decide to involve them, they might be surprised. No flow.

Hornacek isn't coaching these guys to do this...he has said as much when he said his starters were not passing enough. At least he made a change, but the thing is, the ball handlers are the ball dominators...they are not getting the flow of the offense going, and they think they need to do it all themselves at the end of games, especially Bledsoe. He has clanked so many damn shots at the end of quarters or games I've lost count. He will hit a big three when we are up 5, but when we REALLY need one....clank.

RunDogGun · Post #209 » by **RunDogGun** » Sat Dec 5, 2015 2:42 am

Cutter wrote:Maybe McD is close to sealing the deal on a trade and told Horny to play Kieff.

To make it obvious that he sucks? "Bold strategy Cotton, let's see if it pays off."

Saberestar · Post #210 » by **Saberestar** » Sat Dec 5, 2015 2:42 am

Grots wrote:
bigfoot wrote:Frack ... Horny is responsible for playing Kief ... Leuer is putting up better numbers, fouling less, and didn't play most of the 4th quarter. Horny needs to pull head out of butt.

It's possible McD is insisting Morris get minutes in an effort to salvage his trade value. Would explain why Morris kept the starting spot so long.

If Hornacek is receiving orders that is even worse. HE is the head coach. It's absolutely incredible that we are simple fans and we can see clearly what is going on out there. Is not a necessity to be a **** genius to know that Warren and Leuer are extremely good like a team players and are really effective...but he plays Tucker and Markieff like if they were Rodman and Karl Malone in their prime.....WHAT A JOKE!

Seriously....Hornacek has lost any credibility. He rewards the bad plays, the isos, and the bad attitude. Players with great work ethic, smart and high character are on the bench looking Markieff, Knight and Tucker shooting bricks and playing with no basketball IQ at all.

Post #211 » by **batsmasher** » Sat Dec 5, 2015 2:45 am

Kieff is not a small ball 5 because he provides no resistance in the paint. Not long enough nor aware enough.

Post #212 » by **bwgood77** » Sat Dec 5, 2015 2:45 am

sunskerr wrote:I'd say 20 games is enough sample size to say with confidence that Markieff is a negative on both defense and offense and Tucker is a negative on offense. See: Basketball Reference.

Even without Chandler, from a perspective of "pathetic-ness", that was the worst loss of the season.

I hope the boys get it together soon, but Leuer and TJ have been better than Kieff/PJ going back to preseason.

These last two were terrible. What is weird is that I look at the box score, and it is strange that stat wise, most of our players look like they played well.

I think the main thing is. We maybe have one clutch player. Booker. I mean Knight CANNOT miss those free throws tonight. Warren seems clutch but I don't know.

The worst thing is, even IF Booker was on the floor in the closing moments in a game in which we were down by 3, Bledsoe would still dribble the clock out and clank a shot.

RunDogGun · Post #213 » by **RunDogGun** » Sat Dec 5, 2015 2:45 am

Saberestar wrote:
Grots wrote:
bigfoot wrote:Frack ... Horny is responsible for playing Kief ... Leuer is putting up better numbers, fouling less, and didn't play most of the 4th quarter. Horny needs to pull head out of butt.

It's possible McD is insisting Morris get minutes in an effort to salvage his trade value. Would explain why Morris kept the starting spot so long.

If Hornacek is receiving orders that is even worse. HE is the head coach. It's absolutely incredible that we are simple fans and we can see clearly what is going on out there. Is not a necessity to be a **** genius to know that Warren and Leuer are extremely good like a team players and are really effective...but he plays Tucker and Markieff like if they were Rodman and Karl Malone in their prime.....WHAT A JOKE!

Seriously....Hornacek has lost any credibility. He rewards the bad plays, the isos, and the bad attitude. Players with great work ethic, smart and high character are on the bench looking Markieff, Knight and Tucker shooting bricks and playing with no basketball IQ at all.

I can understand playing Tucker in this game, he had over a third of our total rebounds. But playing Morris over Leuer is a joke. Last game was worse with sitting Tele and Booker so long. They were killing it from three.

sunskerr · Post #214 » by **sunskerr** » Sat Dec 5, 2015 2:45 am

bwgood77 wrote:Yeah, if you really go through his trades, he really didn't win many, and he's surely pissed off a bunch of players. He got Bledsoe for Dudley, but Bledsoe is likely not a guy that will ever lead a team to win a playoff series. Knight, same thing. I was hoping with both of them, maybe we would have ball movement, but then it ends up with two guys playing hero ball. It's just like when teammates watch Kobe or Melo....when you decide to involve them, they might be surprised. No flow.

Hornacek isn't coaching these guys to do this...he has said as much when he said his starters were not passing enough. At least he made a change, but the thing is, the ball handlers are the ball dominators...they are not getting the flow of the offense going, and they think they need to do it all themselves at the end of games, especially Bledsoe. He has clanked so many damn shots at the end of quarters or games I've lost count. He will hit a big three when we are up 5, but when we REALLY need one....clank.

If you propose that you don't want Bledsoe or Knight on good deals for the next 5 years, you must come up with an alternate plan. You also can't nitpick on little areas like the end of the quarter which is worth just as much as any other time within the game. What we know for sure is that Markieff and to a lesser extent, Tucker, are net negatives (basketball reference) and have had much more damaging impacts on our team than Knight/Bledsoe (our best players).

I also think there were worse things that happened besides Knight missing free throws.

Sunsss · Post #215 » by **Sunsss** » Sat Dec 5, 2015 2:46 am

Cutter wrote:I have never before said what I am about to say.

I am turning against Jeff Hornacek as coach.

I'm getting concerned for him. He might release a statement soon saying "I can't make these guys do what I tell them to do, so I'm out."

jeff2020 · Post #216 » by **jeff2020** » Sat Dec 5, 2015 2:46 am

bwgood77 wrote:
jeff2020 wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
Because Knight missed a couple of free throws? I don't care what happens at this point. I just can't believe we are stuck with Bledsoe and Knight for the next 5 years. They will put up amazing stats sometimes, but neither are much of team players.

And one of the best pgs in history had no interest in knight as his pg of the future? Shouldn't that be a tip off? I think McD just looks at box scores and looks at these trades like its NBA 2k or something. I mean this is really a joke how poorly this team is constructed

Yeah, if you really go through his trades, he really didn't win many, and he's surely pissed off a bunch of players. He got Bledsoe for Dudley, but Bledsoe is likely not a guy that will ever lead a team to win a playoff series. Knight, same thing. I was hoping with both of them, maybe we would have ball movement, but then it ends up with two guys playing hero ball. It's just like when teammates watch Kobe or Melo....when you decide to involve them, they might be surprised. No flow.

Hornacek isn't coaching these guys to do this...he has said as much when he said his starters were not passing enough. At least he made a change, but the thing is, the ball handlers are the ball dominators...they are not getting the flow of the offense going, and they think they need to do it all themselves at the end of games, especially Bledsoe. He has clanked so many damn shots at the end of quarters or games I've lost count. He will hit a big three when we are up 5, but when we REALLY need one....clank.

100% right! Hated the knight trade but I still think the Bledsoe trade was the right move. It's just so hard to watch this team play. I honestly don't think I saw a single set play run tonight with Bledsoe and knight on the floor. It's all 1 on 1 ball and a high pick and roll. We have to get a real PG to run this team. I don't care if he scored 8 points a game but if he can rotate the ball with hockey assists and penetrate and create for others that's all I care about. Booker and warren are showing they are really high IQ players off the ball so just get a real PG in and let them develop. This team is just so impossible to watch right now with bledsoe and knight doing nothing but chucking up terrible shot after terrible shot

WeekapaugGroove · Post #217 » by **WeekapaugGroove** » Sat Dec 5, 2015 2:47 am

Cutter wrote:I have never before said what I am about to say.

I am turning against Jeff Hornacek as coach.

I'm right there with you. I've been a fan of Jeff but his rotations are unacceptable. I'll be the 100th person to say it.. keif shouldn't be playing a **** minute.

Cutter · Post #218 » by **Cutter** » Sat Dec 5, 2015 2:48 am

RunDogGun wrote:
Cutter wrote:Maybe McD is close to sealing the deal on a trayde and told Horny to play Kieff.

To make it obvious that he sucks? "Bold strategy Cotton, let's see if it pays off."

Exactly. Every time Kieff plays it hurts his trade value. I know many, including myself, thought he might "bounce back" with enough playing time. This isn't happening, and he is actually regressing. I don't think he gives a **** at this point.

Let's see what Dec. 15th brings when trade season starts.

Post #219 » by **bwgood77** » Sat Dec 5, 2015 2:49 am

Saberestar wrote:
Grots wrote:
bigfoot wrote:Frack ... Horny is responsible for playing Kief ... Leuer is putting up better numbers, fouling less, and didn't play most of the 4th quarter. Horny needs to pull head out of butt.

It's possible McD is insisting Morris get minutes in an effort to salvage his trade value. Would explain why Morris kept the starting spot so long.

If Hornacek is receiving orders that is even worse. HE is the head coach. It's absolutely incredible that we are simple fans and we can see clearly what is going on out there. Is not a necessity to be a **** genius to know that Warren and Leuer are extremely good like a team players and are really effective...but he plays Tucker and Markieff like if they were Rodman and Karl Malone in their prime.....WHAT A JOKE!

Seriously....Hornacek has lost any credibility. He rewards the bad plays, the isos, and the bad attitude. Players with great work ethic, smart and high character are on the bench looking Markieff, Knight and Tucker shooting bricks and playing with no basketball IQ at all.

Markieff shouldn't play. I don't know what is going on there. Knight and Bledsoe...well, I guess they have to play, but they should probably sit some one at a time with Booker out there. Tucker....I'd rather see Warren but I can understand why Tucker plays...especially in this one without Chandler. He was the only guy rebounding. Tucker 37 minutes 13 rebounds. Warren 22 minutes, 0 rebounds. Warren is usually a good offensive rebounder too.

SunsRback4Good · Post #220 » by **SunsRback4Good** » Sat Dec 5, 2015 2:49 am

Sunsss wrote:D-backs just signed Greinke. Wow.

OMG Yesssssssssssssss!!!!!