Trade Deadline Countdown....December 2015

[thamadkant]

I proposed the below trades before.
But to summarize and TLDR version.


Suns dump for expirings...

Suns / Celtics
Chandler for Lee and late first.


Suns / Grizzlies
Morris + Tucker for Green



New trade idea.
Suns / Jazz

Bledsoe + Heat pick
For
Favors

*True story, I placed Bledsoe on trade finder NBA 2K16 and Jazz offered Favors.

[Jarlaxle0204]

Kerrsed do you like Dion Waiters?

He's a poor man's Gerald Green...think Shannon Brown without the athleticism...

I think he has gotten a bum rap. Everyone expects the world of him because of him being drafted #1, but he was taken too high and should have fell to the 5-10 range. I dont see a poor mans Gerald Green, as he doesnt really have the 3 point shot, but i still do see the poor mans Wade that he was given prior to the draft. Maybe even a rich mans Goodwin. He barrels into the paint and likes to take it to the rim. He is also a above-average defender, and i think he just needs minutes to develop a bit more to really prove to people that he can play.

Im just looking around the league at undervalued youngsters that havent reached or shown their full potential yet, and Waiters fits that category for me. I think he has something to prove and really wants to.

Maybe I'm missing something here but wasn't he taken with the #4 pick and not the first pick.

[JMac1]

Do what my Cubbies have done

Blow it all up! Hire a REAL GM and Coach. Get a ton of great young talent, play them and then get FA to want to sign here to help win.

[Saberestar]

I'm beginning to lean the other direction. I think Horny stays all season no matter what

https://mobile.twitter.com/DaveKingNBA/status/680760918314102784

[kennydorglas]

I'd prefer dumping everyone on Brooklyn over taking Kanter. He's like a 0.1 value above replacement guy (so basically he's a neutral effect player) getting a max deal. That would scare me. I'd also prefer Jones over him if that was still on the table.

I'd take Kanter/Waiters for Chandler/Tucker in a heartbeat.

Kanter is averaging 11/9 in 20 minutes with a PER of 23.3.
Chandler is averaging 4.5/7 in 19 minutes with a PER of 10.6

So, i will take those stats for a mere $3M more than we are paying Chandler.

Kanter is 10 years younger than Chandler and has only been in the League for 4 years. Lets also remember what college he went to (Kentucky!). Sure, he is a weak defender, but so like 75% of our team. My idea would to throw him in as our starting PF next to Len.

Trade Morris/Leuer to Toronto for Biyombo/Bennett/Johnson

Then trade Knight for some young talent that has yet to be realized and/or a pick or two.


Bledsoe/Goodwin
Booker/Waiters
Warren/Johnson
Kanter/Bennett
Len/Biyombo

Draft Labissiere with our pick and Gary Payton II with a late 1st.

Its time to start over with a group of youngsters and give them plenty of minutes to develop. Develop our own guys instead of trying to trade/sign already developed players from other teams that will command a hefty price.

With Kanter, he's a great offensive talent, but I'm not a huge fan of PER because in my mind it undersells defense. Winshares and Value above replacement are better stats in my opinion, and both seem to show that Kanter's defense nearly outweighs his offense. So we're paying a max contract for a guy who just barely helps us win compared to a replacement player in that scenario. That's what happens when you're the worst defender in the NBA (and that's what Kanter has been over the last few seasons). I don't think the fact that the rest of the team sucks defensively warrants excusing that. The real question would be, does he have the ability and/or desire to improve on that end? I haven't seen it yet. He's not really a leaper, so I'd question his rim protection potential even if he focused on that end.

I completely agree on tearing it down and building around additional youth, but I want us to build around more 2 way players. And lately the development of guys like Green, Butler, and Leonard make me think defense first with the coordination to become good offensive players may be the way to go, particularly given our young talent is already offensive heavy between Knight, Warren, and Booker. To me, Len and Bledsoe are, or at least have shown the ability to be, 2 way players. Bledsoe's D is down this year, but he's defended in the past and I think he will play good defense again. I agree I'd rather have a 24 year old than Chandler, but if he can net Kanter he can net a pick instead from someone, which wouldn't cost us a max deal that I don't think the player is worth. Hell, we could trade him for just an expiring and then max out Jones or DMo, both of which I'd prefer to Kanter, and both of which have stronger advanced numbers aside from PER.

Waiters is a crazy chucker with a low effective FG% who performs very much below replacement level. I would rather just cut PJ and eat the partially guaranteed money for next year.

I want young guys with upside. I'd take Kanter if not for his contract, but I don't see Waiters as having any real upside. I think his height will be as a replacement level player.

I cant agree more with this part... too bad this hasnt been McD's MO so far (we mainly drafted offensive players so far)

[AtheJ415]

I'd take Kanter/Waiters for Chandler/Tucker in a heartbeat.

Kanter is averaging 11/9 in 20 minutes with a PER of 23.3.
Chandler is averaging 4.5/7 in 19 minutes with a PER of 10.6

So, i will take those stats for a mere $3M more than we are paying Chandler.

Kanter is 10 years younger than Chandler and has only been in the League for 4 years. Lets also remember what college he went to (Kentucky!). Sure, he is a weak defender, but so like 75% of our team. My idea would to throw him in as our starting PF next to Len.

Trade Morris/Leuer to Toronto for Biyombo/Bennett/Johnson

Then trade Knight for some young talent that has yet to be realized and/or a pick or two.


Bledsoe/Goodwin
Booker/Waiters
Warren/Johnson
Kanter/Bennett
Len/Biyombo

Draft Labissiere with our pick and Gary Payton II with a late 1st.

Its time to start over with a group of youngsters and give them plenty of minutes to develop. Develop our own guys instead of trying to trade/sign already developed players from other teams that will command a hefty price.

With Kanter, he's a great offensive talent, but I'm not a huge fan of PER because in my mind it undersells defense. Winshares and Value above replacement are better stats in my opinion, and both seem to show that Kanter's defense nearly outweighs his offense. So we're paying a max contract for a guy who just barely helps us win compared to a replacement player in that scenario. That's what happens when you're the worst defender in the NBA (and that's what Kanter has been over the last few seasons). I don't think the fact that the rest of the team sucks defensively warrants excusing that. The real question would be, does he have the ability and/or desire to improve on that end? I haven't seen it yet. He's not really a leaper, so I'd question his rim protection potential even if he focused on that end.

I completely agree on tearing it down and building around additional youth, but I want us to build around more 2 way players. And lately the development of guys like Green, Butler, and Leonard make me think defense first with the coordination to become good offensive players may be the way to go, particularly given our young talent is already offensive heavy between Knight, Warren, and Booker. To me, Len and Bledsoe are, or at least have shown the ability to be, 2 way players. Bledsoe's D is down this year, but he's defended in the past and I think he will play good defense again. I agree I'd rather have a 24 year old than Chandler, but if he can net Kanter he can net a pick instead from someone, which wouldn't cost us a max deal that I don't think the player is worth. Hell, we could trade him for just an expiring and then max out Jones or DMo, both of which I'd prefer to Kanter, and both of which have stronger advanced numbers aside from PER.

Waiters is a crazy chucker with a low effective FG% who performs very much below replacement level. I would rather just cut PJ and eat the partially guaranteed money for next year.

I want young guys with upside. I'd take Kanter if not for his contract, but I don't see Waiters as having any real upside. I think his height will be as a replacement level player.

I cant agree more with this part... too bad this hasnt been McD's MO so far (we mainly drafted offensive players so far)

I do think he's gotten BPA though at the spots he's drafted, and he did draft Len, so I'm actually fine with the guys we've drafted. Booker could end up a decent defender with his size. I question whether Warren ever will be an average defender. But we'll see. Guys like Tele and Knight are certainly 1 way pickups. I think Terrence Jones would be a good pickup as far as 2 way guys at the 4 spot, and he's only 23.

[Cutter]

I'm beginning to lean the other direction. I think Horny stays all season no matter what

https://mobile.twitter.com/DaveKingNBA/status/680760918314102784

I feel the same way. I've thought all along that Hornacek will coach the remainder of the year, and at no time was he at risk of being fired. However, I am not saying that McD will renew his contract, and Hornacek might be gone at the end of the season.

[Fo-Real]

Should we attempt to sell high on Leure?

[kennydorglas]

Spoiler:

With Kanter, he's a great offensive talent, but I'm not a huge fan of PER because in my mind it undersells defense. Winshares and Value above replacement are better stats in my opinion, and both seem to show that Kanter's defense nearly outweighs his offense. So we're paying a max contract for a guy who just barely helps us win compared to a replacement player in that scenario. That's what happens when you're the worst defender in the NBA (and that's what Kanter has been over the last few seasons). I don't think the fact that the rest of the team sucks defensively warrants excusing that. The real question would be, does he have the ability and/or desire to improve on that end? I haven't seen it yet. He's not really a leaper, so I'd question his rim protection potential even if he focused on that end.

I completely agree on tearing it down and building around additional youth, but I want us to build around more 2 way players. And lately the development of guys like Green, Butler, and Leonard make me think defense first with the coordination to become good offensive players may be the way to go, particularly given our young talent is already offensive heavy between Knight, Warren, and Booker. To me, Len and Bledsoe are, or at least have shown the ability to be, 2 way players. Bledsoe's D is down this year, but he's defended in the past and I think he will play good defense again. I agree I'd rather have a 24 year old than Chandler, but if he can net Kanter he can net a pick instead from someone, which wouldn't cost us a max deal that I don't think the player is worth. Hell, we could trade him for just an expiring and then max out Jones or DMo, both of which I'd prefer to Kanter, and both of which have stronger advanced numbers aside from PER.

Waiters is a crazy chucker with a low effective FG% who performs very much below replacement level. I would rather just cut PJ and eat the partially guaranteed money for next year.

I want young guys with upside. I'd take Kanter if not for his contract, but I don't see Waiters as having any real upside. I think his height will be as a replacement level player.

I cant agree more with this part... too bad this hasnt been McD's MO so far (we mainly drafted offensive players so far)

I do think he's gotten BPA though at the spots he's drafted, and he did draft Len, so I'm actually fine with the guys we've drafted. Booker could end up a decent defender with his size. I question whether Warren ever will be an average defender. But we'll see. Guys like Tele and Knight are certainly 1 way pickups. I think Terrence Jones would be a good pickup as far as 2 way guys at the 4 spot, and he's only 23.

I'm fine with our draftable guys too... I just wanted more emphasis on defensive/high motor guys.
Just like Ainge is doing right now (Smart, Bradley, Crowder)... this year they drafted two defensive studs (Rozier/Mickey) and a guy that I really liked pre-draft (RJ Hunter)... tried to get Winslow (another defensive stud)

I can see Booker becoming a reliable player like Korver...

[Saberestar]

Should we attempt to sell high on Leure?

I don't think he has more value around the league than Bass or JJ Hickson, for example. There are too many decent big man on an expiring contract out there in the market, his value can be a late second at best.

[AtheJ415]

At 26, Leuer can be a part of our rebuild, so I'd keep him, but I think it depends on what else happens. For instance, if we traded Bledsoe for younger players or picks, then we'd want to go younger at that point since we'd then have Knight (24), Booker(19), Warren (22), Len (22), Goodwin (21), Bogdan. You want to build around the same age window, so if it gets lower we may want to move on.

I do think we should sell high on Teletovic though. He has less use to us long-term than Leuer would imo, and probably has more value league-wide.

[Puff]

I understand the frustration, we are all frustrated. However it is amazing how we continually try to create trades that will never ever happen when the real answer is so obvious.

For the last two seasons we all were pretty happy with the talent on the roster. It was young with a lot of potential upside. We needed veterans, we added Chandler and Weems. We had some malcontents so we disposed of them Goran, Green, IT and Marcus.

With those changes we still too often play with little direction and inconsistent passion at best.

I do not know of any franchise in the league that would stay with the same coach after they had made all the player moves we have while handing out big contracts to players like Chandler,Bledsoe and Knight.

If we get rid of Markieff and this team instantly turns the corner I will be shocked.

[WeekapaugGroove]

The keif trade should happen today so we can all celebrate Boxing day. The day were Canadians celebrate by getting rid of the **** they got for Xmas they didn't want.

[Revived]

Marcin Gortat showing support for Kieff on Twitter.

[pidi]

just trade goodwin / morris / jefferson fot thad young to brooklyn..

we took that many shots that we can need a pf who stays in the zone, rebounding, hustling and defending.. i don´t giva a crap about this season, chandler and young could be very productive..

keep knight and bledsoe, keep len and warren - my god keep chandler - you can´t give up the idea about installing veteran leadership after 30 games..

[WeekapaugGroove]

Marcin Gortat showing support for Kieff on Twitter.

Great they should send him to Washington. Something like keif tucker and filler for nenes corpse and Kelly oubre would be great.

[Qwigglez]

I Know the Bulls probably wouldn't do this but I would enjoy this...
Suns get-
Pau Gasol
Joakim Noah

Bulls get-
Tyson Chandler
Markieff Morris
Archie Goodwin

[Revived]

I think the Bulls might do that, their not too high on Gasol or Noah this season.

[WeekapaugGroove]

Marcin Gortat showing support for Kieff on Twitter.

I also want to call bull **** on gortat blaming the lack of vet leadership. Come on.. we're not dealing with a 15 year old child, keif is a grown ass man in his mid 20s. It's an age where many young men take on leadership in their professions. Even if he does have the mental chops to lead it's not too much to ask to simply act like an adult and not a spoiled child. Keif has no one to blame but himself for his actions the past 18 months.

[Revived]

Do what my Cubbies have done

Blow it all up! Hire a REAL GM and Coach. Get a ton of great young talent, play them and then get FA to want to sign here to help win.

So one of us?