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rcc8884 wrote:Look at that! Another GB topic on Devin Booker!

And look! Kevin Knox who hasn't played a game is apparently better than Booker already! I love the GB!

I usually try and steer clear of them but I finally had to post this time. This one seemed more negative than usual. It seems like there is a new one every couple weeks though.

I was running different queries to see what I could use to maybe argue. Here are some interesting ones I came across but didn't use for various reasons.

Booker vs Kyrie 1st 3 years...look at ppg per 36 and TS%. Kyrie shot slightly better from each level, but really had the better ast/to ratio (but expected, being a PG) but measured better defensively. I would have used if not for the difference in OBPM, VORP and PER which would have likely been thrown back at me. http://bkref.com/tiny/154zO

But as a scorer, he was similar to Kyrie his first three years who was an all star.

Here is a comparison with Curry at age 21, where you can see that they have about the same TS%, despite Curry shooting way better from 3 (43.7% to 38.3%) and slightly better from 2 and the line, though Booker got to the line more often, which must have made up for the 3 pt difference...actually looking closer, Booker's 3 pt volume was much higher which probably helped him catch up in TS % despite shooting a worse %. That's why when Curry's volume goes way up later in his career his TS% went through the roof...his 3s are SO much more valuable.

Booker actually beats Curry in PER and isn't that far behind in VORP and BPM either. http://bkref.com/tiny/xdOsT

I did another comparison with Harden at the same age and used it, because Booker compares favorably to Harden at the same age.

It's a bit frustrating but at the same time, it's a good opportunity to 'try' and educate some fans who haven't really watched Booker in depth or followed his development. That's sort of what I'm trying to do. Probably a fruitless endeavor but hey, it's the offseason....not much else to do

lilfishi22 wrote:It's a bit frustrating but at the same time, it's a good opportunity to 'try' and educate some fans who haven't really watched Booker in depth or followed his development. That's sort of what I'm trying to do. Probably a fruitless endeavor but hey, it's the offseason....not much else to do

He will likely always have the people who don't like him, but for him to be worth his contract, he will need to get that TS% over 60%, get close to a 2/1 ast/to ratio and be close to avg defensively.

He was 7th in TO PG last year with a 1.3 ast/to ratio, but of the 6 above him, of the non bigs, they all had a 2 or higher ast/to ratio.
http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/player/_/stat/turnovers/sort/avgTurnovers/order/false

bwgood77 wrote:

lilfishi22 wrote:It's a bit frustrating but at the same time, it's a good opportunity to 'try' and educate some fans who haven't really watched Booker in depth or followed his development. That's sort of what I'm trying to do. Probably a fruitless endeavor but hey, it's the offseason....not much else to do

He will likely always have the people who don't like him, but for him to be worth his contract, he will need to get that TS% over 60%, get close to a 2/1 ast/to ratio and be close to avg defensively.

He was 7th in TO PG last year with a 1.3 ast/to ratio, but of the 6 above him, of the non bigs, they all had a 2 or higher ast/to ratio.
http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/player/_/stat/turnovers/sort/avgTurnovers/order/false

Of course. I think 58-60 TS% would be enough but he really needs to work on being better than nearly 1:1 A:T ratio. If he can get to 2 this season, I think that's a great step and I really don't think that's out of realm of possibility. Defensively, I don't think he'll ever be good but if he can improve to the point where he's average or even just below average then his offense should carry him.

lilfishi22 wrote:

bwgood77 wrote:

lilfishi22 wrote:It's a bit frustrating but at the same time, it's a good opportunity to 'try' and educate some fans who haven't really watched Booker in depth or followed his development. That's sort of what I'm trying to do. Probably a fruitless endeavor but hey, it's the offseason....not much else to do

He will likely always have the people who don't like him, but for him to be worth his contract, he will need to get that TS% over 60%, get close to a 2/1 ast/to ratio and be close to avg defensively.

He was 7th in TO PG last year with a 1.3 ast/to ratio, but of the 6 above him, of the non bigs, they all had a 2 or higher ast/to ratio.
http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/player/_/stat/turnovers/sort/avgTurnovers/order/false

Of course. I think 58-60 TS% would be enough but he really needs to work on being better than nearly 1:1 A:T ratio. If he can get to 2 this season, I think that's a great step and I really don't think that's out of realm of possibility. Defensively, I don't think he'll ever be good but if he can improve to the point where he's average or even just below average then his offense should carry him.

Do you not think Booker can consistently get to over a 60 TS%? I mean he seems like an elite shooter, and those guys are way up there. Curry was at 67.5 TS% this year. He should be able to get to 62% or so which he will need to do.

I mean you see people mentioning Kevin Martin in that GB thread, who spent much of his career above 60% and ended it with a career 58.5%. I think Booker is a much better shooter than a lot of these guys and with other threats on the floor, it should go way up as long as he isn't trying to force a lot.

Vecenie and Zwicker on top 8 players 23 and under

bwgood77 wrote:

lilfishi22 wrote:

bwgood77 wrote:
He will likely always have the people who don't like him, but for him to be worth his contract, he will need to get that TS% over 60%, get close to a 2/1 ast/to ratio and be close to avg defensively.

He was 7th in TO PG last year with a 1.3 ast/to ratio, but of the 6 above him, of the non bigs, they all had a 2 or higher ast/to ratio.
http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/player/_/stat/turnovers/sort/avgTurnovers/order/false

Of course. I think 58-60 TS% would be enough but he really needs to work on being better than nearly 1:1 A:T ratio. If he can get to 2 this season, I think that's a great step and I really don't think that's out of realm of possibility. Defensively, I don't think he'll ever be good but if he can improve to the point where he's average or even just below average then his offense should carry him.

Do you not think Booker can consistently get to over a 60 TS%? I mean he seems like an elite shooter, and those guys are way up there. Curry was at 67.5 TS% this year. He should be able to get to 62% or so which he will need to do.

I mean you see people mentioning Kevin Martin in that GB thread, who spent much of his career above 60% and ended it with a career 58.5%. I think Booker is a much better shooter than a lot of these guys and with other threats on the floor, it should go way up as long as he isn't trying to force a lot.

Vecenie and Zwicker on top 8 players 23 and under

Read on Twitter

Where did they rank book on that list?

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using RealGM mobile app

WeekapaugGroove wrote:

bwgood77 wrote:

lilfishi22 wrote:Of course. I think 58-60 TS% would be enough but he really needs to work on being better than nearly 1:1 A:T ratio. If he can get to 2 this season, I think that's a great step and I really don't think that's out of realm of possibility. Defensively, I don't think he'll ever be good but if he can improve to the point where he's average or even just below average then his offense should carry him.

Do you not think Booker can consistently get to over a 60 TS%? I mean he seems like an elite shooter, and those guys are way up there. Curry was at 67.5 TS% this year. He should be able to get to 62% or so which he will need to do.

I mean you see people mentioning Kevin Martin in that GB thread, who spent much of his career above 60% and ended it with a career 58.5%. I think Booker is a much better shooter than a lot of these guys and with other threats on the floor, it should go way up as long as he isn't trying to force a lot.

Vecenie and Zwicker on top 8 players 23 and under

Read on Twitter

Where did they rank book on that list?

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using RealGM mobile app

I am listening to it now, but someone on the GB said Vecenie ranked Book 3rd ahead of Mitchell, Tatum and Jokic.

bwgood77 wrote:

rcc8884 wrote:Look at that! Another GB topic on Devin Booker!

And look! Kevin Knox who hasn't played a game is apparently better than Booker already! I love the GB!

I usually try and steer clear of them but I finally had to post this time. This one seemed more negative than usual. It seems like there is a new one every couple weeks though.

I was running different queries to see what I could use to maybe argue. Here are some interesting ones I came across but didn't use for various reasons.

Booker vs Kyrie 1st 3 years...look at ppg per 36 and TS%. Kyrie shot slightly better from each level, but really had the better ast/to ratio (but expected, being a PG) but measured better defensively. I would have used if not for the difference in OBPM, VORP and PER which would have likely been thrown back at me. http://bkref.com/tiny/154zO

But as a scorer, he was similar to Kyrie his first three years who was an all star.

Here is a comparison with Curry at age 21, where you can see that they have about the same TS%, despite Curry shooting way better from 3 (43.7% to 38.3%) and slightly better from 2 and the line, though Booker got to the line more often, which must have made up for the 3 pt difference...actually looking closer, Booker's 3 pt volume was much higher which probably helped him catch up in TS % despite shooting a worse %. That's why when Curry's volume goes way up later in his career his TS% went through the roof...his 3s are SO much more valuable.

Booker actually beats Curry in PER and isn't that far behind in VORP and BPM either. http://bkref.com/tiny/xdOsT

I did another comparison with Harden at the same age and used it, because Booker compares favorably to Harden at the same age.

Smart. Don't waste your time. For some reason, maybe Laker fans (Rivalry) and Celts fan who don't like Josh and are upset that Devin dropped 70 on him are leading they way, but the Book and Sun hate is at an all-time high. Maybe because we got Ayton, don't know. I have been banned from the GB since Book's rookie year and I will never request to get back on it because its a death trap.

bwgood77 wrote:

WeekapaugGroove wrote:

bwgood77 wrote:
Do you not think Booker can consistently get to over a 60 TS%? I mean he seems like an elite shooter, and those guys are way up there. Curry was at 67.5 TS% this year. He should be able to get to 62% or so which he will need to do.

I mean you see people mentioning Kevin Martin in that GB thread, who spent much of his career above 60% and ended it with a career 58.5%. I think Booker is a much better shooter than a lot of these guys and with other threats on the floor, it should go way up as long as he isn't trying to force a lot.

Vecenie and Zwicker on top 8 players 23 and under

Read on Twitter

Where did they rank book on that list?

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using RealGM mobile app

I am listening to it now, but someone on the GB said Vecenie ranked Book 3rd ahead of Mitchell, Tatum and Jokic.

Why would he not? Outside of the GB, most people know better.

JMac1 wrote:

bwgood77 wrote:

WeekapaugGroove wrote:Where did they rank book on that list?

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using RealGM mobile app

I am listening to it now, but someone on the GB said Vecenie ranked Book 3rd ahead of Mitchell, Tatum and Jokic.

Why would he not? Outside of the GB, most people know better.

He had Ayton 8th and JJ 24th.

bwgood77 wrote:

lilfishi22 wrote:

bwgood77 wrote:
He will likely always have the people who don't like him, but for him to be worth his contract, he will need to get that TS% over 60%, get close to a 2/1 ast/to ratio and be close to avg defensively.

He was 7th in TO PG last year with a 1.3 ast/to ratio, but of the 6 above him, of the non bigs, they all had a 2 or higher ast/to ratio.
http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/player/_/stat/turnovers/sort/avgTurnovers/order/false

Of course. I think 58-60 TS% would be enough but he really needs to work on being better than nearly 1:1 A:T ratio. If he can get to 2 this season, I think that's a great step and I really don't think that's out of realm of possibility. Defensively, I don't think he'll ever be good but if he can improve to the point where he's average or even just below average then his offense should carry him.

Do you not think Booker can consistently get to over a 60 TS%? I mean he seems like an elite shooter, and those guys are way up there. Curry was at 67.5 TS% this year. He should be able to get to 62% or so which he will need to do.

I mean you see people mentioning Kevin Martin in that GB thread, who spent much of his career above 60% and ended it with a career 58.5%. I think Booker is a much better shooter than a lot of these guys and with other threats on the floor, it should go way up as long as he isn't trying to force a lot.

Vecenie and Zwicker on top 8 players 23 and under

Read on Twitter

I'm listening to it now! It's been a pretty good series. #8 is Ayton for those who haven't listened, not sure where Book is right now

But back to Book, I think over 60TS% is entirely possible and reasonable, I'm just saying I'd like to see him hit that high 50's, low 60's and have a solid 2-2.5 A:T ratio

WOW we are straight up CURSED!

Well good to get it done now if it's still bothering him. If it lasts into the season, I guess it's' really good that we have all that wing depth, and our defense would be better.

That's weird, I just saw a Rico Hines run clip on Youtube, which was suppose to be recent.

KD, Taurean Prince, Booker and several other NBA players.

He seemed to be shooting okay and then he even followed up one shot with a one-hand dunk, though I think after a foul call so he was just following through.

It can't be something that's just been bothering him and he suddenly felt the need to take care of it. Something has to have happened which reinjured/aggravated it forcing him to address it with surgery now. Makes no sense to have waited this long to get it done.

so when do we think he'll be back? the Suns knew about the hand, and they scheduled this, so he'll be back by November. right?

As a Cowboys and Suns fan, today has sucked.

Regarding the timing, the only thing I can think of as the reason why he's delayed it until now is so he could get some basketball in during the off season. If he had surgery early, he still may not have been ready for training camp.

Well my mood to start the season just took a beating...