Preseason Game 4: Nuggets @ Suns, Monday, Oct 14, 7:00 PM

[Andri]

Tough to say, but Suns are going nowhere with Ayton playing defense like this, he is so passive. The paint is wide open for anyone.

Either he improves or the organization finds the way to pair him with a player that can make for him.

Sadly, I've watched basketball enough to think mentality is the hardest thing to solve. Maybe when he will be 5-7 years older

[sunsbg]

https://youtu.be/_km37MgsIt0?t=239

A play I hope to see between these three regularly during the season.

[Saberestar]

Some thoughts after watching the game...

Monty Williams did a mistake starting Oubre and Bridges at SF and PF. They can't guard PFs, they are too small and thin. We paid the price a lot, similar to last season with Warren at PF. Jerami Grant looked like Karl Malone out there, he did whatever he wanted.

Ayton played a bad game. 5 fouls and 4 TOs in 17 minutes. He was good finishing plays but other than that he had a negative impact. And another game with no FTA. His intensity and awareness are not there yet.

Booker tried to play an small role on the offense. He was OK, but that is not his game. He looked a bit better defensively.
Rubio made some great passes, but he had a hard time defending Murray. He played a decent game but his shot was off.

Kaminsky continues to remind me of Channing Frye. He is smart and an excellent 3p shooter. He was our best player in this game, he maximized every mismatch and that is huge because a lot of teams are gonna switch on screens and they will put an small defender on him.

Bridges and Oubre were active but not effective. They have to score some of those open threes. And Oubre needs to slow down his game, he goes too hard too many times.

The Nuggets are a very good team, they were just better at every aspect of the game than us. We need to forget this one and stay focused on the Kings already.

[GoodBehavior]

It's just preseason. Guys are not going full-throttle, except rookies. Jokic played poorly today, and I don't think this game reflects how good he will be in the season.

Kaminsky is the only player on this rooster that hasn't looked below average. Baynes has looked very mediocre. I expect him to be a beast for our bench. Mikal has looked bad on defense. I fully expect him to be the defensive menace we know he's capable of. I am not worry.

[bwgood77]

Tough to say, but Suns are going nowhere with Ayton playing defense like this, he is so passive. The paint is wide open for anyone.

Either he improves or the organization finds the way to pair him with a player that can make for him.

Sadly, I've watched basketball enough to think mentality is the hardest thing to solve. Maybe when he will be 5-7 years older

This was really evident in college, and if people didn't see it in the regular season it was on full display in the tournament against Buffalo. People would blame coaching or bad defensive guard play, giving him a pass sometimes, but he has kind of always been this way.

That's why I was surprised that many UA fans wanted him over Luka. I know a large portion were ASU fans who may not have watched him as much, but was really was surprised about the UA fans if they had seen him.

But I guess that's why I am less disappointed in him than most since he is about what I expected. I hope he improves, and I don't really expect mentality or intensity to improve much, but I do think learning where to be on defense, and kind of improving his defensive iq is something that possibly can change to some extent. Maybe not for a guy that's been in the NBA for 4-5 years like Booker or Oubre, but for Ayton it seems more possible, and people are probably more in his ear about defense than they are with those other guys.

The bad thing is I think they all think they are good defenders because they are decent 1 on 1 defenders at times.

[MathiasPW]

Tough to say, but Suns are going nowhere with Ayton playing defense like this, he is so passive. The paint is wide open for anyone.

Either he improves or the organization finds the way to pair him with a player that can make for him.

Sadly, I've watched basketball enough to think mentality is the hardest thing to solve. Maybe when he will be 5-7 years older

This was really evident in college, and if people didn't see it in the regular season it was on full display in the tournament against Buffalo. People would blame coaching or bad defensive guard play, giving him a pass sometimes, but he has kind of always been this way.

That's why I was surprised that many UA fans wanted him over Luka. I know a large portion were ASU fans who may not have watched him as much, but was really was surprised about the UA fans if they had seen him.

But I guess that's why I am less disappointed in him than most since he is about what I expected. I hope he improves, and I don't really expect mentality or intensity to improve much, but I do think learning where to be on defense, and kind of improving his defensive iq is something that possibly can change to some extent. Maybe not for a guy that's been in the NBA for 4-5 years like Booker or Oubre, but for Ayton it seems more possible, and people are probably more in his ear about defense than they are about those other guys.

The bad thing is I think they all think they are good defenders because they are decent 1 on 1 defenders at times.

It's interesting that Monty is holding him accountable, though.

From Kellan Olson's article today (https://arizonasports.com/story/2121187/suns-balancing-act-on-offense-continues-in-preseason-finale-loss/) :

"He’s gotta get better,” Williams said of Ayton’s performance in the preseason. “He knows that. We need him to play with a high level of force and dominate the paint. He’s had his moments but most second-year guys struggle with that.

“For us to be a really good team, he’s gotta dominate consistently. He’s gotta own the paint, and that’s on both ends of the floor.”

[Crives]

Until Bridges or Oubre start consistently hitting 3’s.... I would prefer we don’t play them together.

[Crives]

Until Bridges or Oubre start consistently hitting 3’s.... I would prefer we don’t play them together.

Ouch..

Read on Twitter

?s=21

[GoodBehavior]

Until Bridges or Oubre start consistently hitting 3’s.... I would prefer we don’t play them together.

Ouch..

Read on Twitter

?s=21

I dont know what's going on with Bridges. They shorten his release last year and it really threw off his shot. This year, his release looks slower and not as smooth. His defense has been poor as well.

Oubre,

[Crives]

Ball movement was beautiful last night... biggest fear going into last night was the Ball movement would die bring back Book/Ayton/Rubio... need to tweak the lineups to maximize Spacing..,

Read on Twitter

?s=21

[bwgood77]

Tough to say, but Suns are going nowhere with Ayton playing defense like this, he is so passive. The paint is wide open for anyone.

Either he improves or the organization finds the way to pair him with a player that can make for him.

Sadly, I've watched basketball enough to think mentality is the hardest thing to solve. Maybe when he will be 5-7 years older

This was really evident in college, and if people didn't see it in the regular season it was on full display in the tournament against Buffalo. People would blame coaching or bad defensive guard play, giving him a pass sometimes, but he has kind of always been this way.

That's why I was surprised that many UA fans wanted him over Luka. I know a large portion were ASU fans who may not have watched him as much, but was really was surprised about the UA fans if they had seen him.

But I guess that's why I am less disappointed in him than most since he is about what I expected. I hope he improves, and I don't really expect mentality or intensity to improve much, but I do think learning where to be on defense, and kind of improving his defensive iq is something that possibly can change to some extent. Maybe not for a guy that's been in the NBA for 4-5 years like Booker or Oubre, but for Ayton it seems more possible, and people are probably more in his ear about defense than they are about those other guys.

The bad thing is I think they all think they are good defenders because they are decent 1 on 1 defenders at times.

It's interesting that Monty is holding him accountable, though.

From Kellan Olson's article today (https://arizonasports.com/story/2121187/suns-balancing-act-on-offense-continues-in-preseason-finale-loss/) :

"He’s gotta get better,” Williams said of Ayton’s performance in the preseason. “He knows that. We need him to play with a high level of force and dominate the paint. He’s had his moments but most second-year guys struggle with that.

“For us to be a really good team, he’s gotta dominate consistently. He’s gotta own the paint, and that’s on both ends of the floor.”

Yeah, he better keep doing that. After a while if it doesn't work he can say "at this rate he won't make it to his 2nd contract." That should motivate him.

[bwgood77]

Until Bridges or Oubre start consistently hitting 3’s.... I would prefer we don’t play them together.

Bridges will. He is our best returning 3 pt shooter from last year and shot over 43% his last year in college. He has near perfect form and a high release. Sure they will all have games they don't shoot well, but over time he will have a % at least at 37% I believe and probably near 40%.

Oubre not sure. He's gone from 31% to 28% to 34% to 32% over his career so far so he's probably pretty settled into that range...maybe he can hit 34-35% or a little better hopefully.

[bwgood77]

Until Bridges or Oubre start consistently hitting 3’s.... I would prefer we don’t play them together.

Ouch..

Read on Twitter

?s=21

Yeah, this was pointed out in the game thread by multiple people. It was one of the more head scratching plays last night.

[bwgood77]

Until Bridges or Oubre start consistently hitting 3’s.... I would prefer we don’t play them together.

Ouch..

Read on Twitter

?s=21

I dont know what's going on with Bridges. They shorten his release last year and it really threw off his shot. This year, his release looks slower and not as smooth. His defense has been poor as well.

Oubre,

Not sure what you see that makee you think Bridges defense has been bad. Looks pretty solid to me. Looks VERY solid in relation to any of our other wings.

[GoodBehavior]

Ouch..

Read on Twitter

?s=21

I dont know what's going on with Bridges. They shorten his release last year and it really threw off his shot. This year, his release looks slower and not as smooth. His defense has been poor as well.

Oubre,

Not sure what you see that makee you think Bridges defense has been bad. Looks pretty solid to me. Looks VERY solid in relation to any of our other wings.

McCollum had his ways with Bridges. And Grant, who is probably just 10 lb heavier than him, worked him pretty easy. I wouldn't say solid.

[bwgood77]

I dont know what's going on with Bridges. They shorten his release last year and it really threw off his shot. This year, his release looks slower and not as smooth. His defense has been poor as well.

Oubre,

Not sure what you see that makee you think Bridges defense has been bad. Looks pretty solid to me. Looks VERY solid in relation to any of our other wings.

McCollum had his ways with Bridges. And Grant, who is probably just 10 lb heavier than him, worked him pretty easy. I wouldn't say solid.

A guy like McCollum is going to be hard to stop, but Bridges is always good at team defense, which lacks on our team, switching, doing the right thing and being in the right spots. It's a lot harder though when he is the only one really doing it. The second unit was decent at playing team D, switching, etc. With the starters, you always see guys getting lost and someone on the offense being completely wide open. If Bridges is on a guy and contesting, and the guy still scores, he is still doing what he can...you rarely see him getting lost and running way too late to a wide open guy that should be his...that happens with most everyone else.

[GoodBehavior]

Not sure what you see that makee you think Bridges defense has been bad. Looks pretty solid to me. Looks VERY solid in relation to any of our other wings.

McCollum had his ways with Bridges. And Grant, who is probably just 10 lb heavier than him, worked him pretty easy. I wouldn't say solid.

A guy like McCollum is going to be hard to stop, but Bridges is always good at team defense, which lacks on our team, switching, doing the right thing and being in the right spots. It's a lot harder though when he is the only one really doing it. The second unit was decent at playing team D, switching, etc. With the starters, you always see guys getting lost and someone on the offense being completely wide open. If Bridges is on a guy and contesting, and the guy still scores, he is still doing what he can...you rarely see him getting lost and running way too late to a wide open guy that should be his...that happens with most everyone else.

Fair point. I still dont think he has been as good as I would like him to be. But to your earlier point, he's by far the best defensive wing of the bunch.

Unfortunately for him, Oubre is the best weak side protector of the bunch. And I don't see Mikal cracking the starting lineup until DA can show some legit rim protection.

[bwgood77]

McCollum had his ways with Bridges. And Grant, who is probably just 10 lb heavier than him, worked him pretty easy. I wouldn't say solid.

A guy like McCollum is going to be hard to stop, but Bridges is always good at team defense, which lacks on our team, switching, doing the right thing and being in the right spots. It's a lot harder though when he is the only one really doing it. The second unit was decent at playing team D, switching, etc. With the starters, you always see guys getting lost and someone on the offense being completely wide open. If Bridges is on a guy and contesting, and the guy still scores, he is still doing what he can...you rarely see him getting lost and running way too late to a wide open guy that should be his...that happens with most everyone else.

Fair point. I still dont think he has been as good as I would like him to be. But to your earlier point, he's by far the best defensive wing of the bunch.

Unfortunately for him, Oubre is the best weak side protector of the bunch. And I don't see Mikal cracking the starting lineup until DA can show some legit rim protection.

Probably not, but it will still likely hurt on both sides, because our team D will inevitably leave a 3 pt shooter wide open every time and Oubre could stall the offense sometimes and take ill advised shots. Bridges may not do much on offense, but he will almost always make the right play....shoot a 3 if open or move the ball.

[TheLogician]

Tough to say, but Suns are going nowhere with Ayton playing defense like this, he is so passive. The paint is wide open for anyone.

Either he improves or the organization finds the way to pair him with a player that can make for him.

Sadly, I've watched basketball enough to think mentality is the hardest thing to solve. Maybe when he will be 5-7 years older

This was really evident in college, and if people didn't see it in the regular season it was on full display in the tournament against Buffalo. People would blame coaching or bad defensive guard play, giving him a pass sometimes, but he has kind of always been this way.

That's why I was surprised that many UA fans wanted him over Luka. I know a large portion were ASU fans who may not have watched him as much, but was really was surprised about the UA fans if they had seen him.

But I guess that's why I am less disappointed in him than most since he is about what I expected. I hope he improves, and I don't really expect mentality or intensity to improve much, but I do think learning where to be on defense, and kind of improving his defensive iq is something that possibly can change to some extent. Maybe not for a guy that's been in the NBA for 4-5 years like Booker or Oubre, but for Ayton it seems more possible, and people are probably more in his ear about defense than they are with those other guys.

The bad thing is I think they all think they are good defenders because they are decent 1 on 1 defenders at times.

In retrospect, my opinion was skewed by Lauri the year before. He was not a great defender playing alongside Ristic but was competent as a rookie with the Bulls. Obviously they are totally different players, especially between the ears. But to be fair, I'd argue Ayton played with more intensity in college. Arizona does not win the Pac-12 title or conference tourney without Ayton.

[bwgood77]

Tough to say, but Suns are going nowhere with Ayton playing defense like this, he is so passive. The paint is wide open for anyone.

Either he improves or the organization finds the way to pair him with a player that can make for him.

Sadly, I've watched basketball enough to think mentality is the hardest thing to solve. Maybe when he will be 5-7 years older

This was really evident in college, and if people didn't see it in the regular season it was on full display in the tournament against Buffalo. People would blame coaching or bad defensive guard play, giving him a pass sometimes, but he has kind of always been this way.

That's why I was surprised that many UA fans wanted him over Luka. I know a large portion were ASU fans who may not have watched him as much, but was really was surprised about the UA fans if they had seen him.

But I guess that's why I am less disappointed in him than most since he is about what I expected. I hope he improves, and I don't really expect mentality or intensity to improve much, but I do think learning where to be on defense, and kind of improving his defensive iq is something that possibly can change to some extent. Maybe not for a guy that's been in the NBA for 4-5 years like Booker or Oubre, but for Ayton it seems more possible, and people are probably more in his ear about defense than they are with those other guys.

The bad thing is I think they all think they are good defenders because they are decent 1 on 1 defenders at times.

In retrospect, my opinion was skewed by Lauri the year before. He was not a great defender playing alongside Ristic but was competent as a rookie with the Bulls. Obviously they are totally different players, especially between the ears. But to be fair, I'd argue Ayton played with more intensity in college. Arizona does not win the Pac-12 title or conference tourney without Ayton.

Oh yeah, I agree they don't win it, mostly because of his offensive skills. But being a great player in college and in the NBA are completely different. Most anyone who makes it to the NBA was pretty great in college unless they were still mostly living off of high school rep. He just seemed passive at times and didn't have a lot of fire outside of when he was accused of taking the money. And his defensive awareness was bad. I hoped it would improve and still think it can, but I don't see him ever intimidating anyone or scaring anyone into not going to the rim. I really hope his screen setting gets better...this was also poor in college.