2022-23 Season Discussion and Speculation 4 - Trade season continues - No player trade restrictions

[bwgood77]

Someone tell me why the Raptors are “increasingly aggressive” in their pursuit of Poeltl? I thought they were sellers but now they want to acquire a starting center on an expiring deal? Unless the asking price for Poeltl is very low, I don’t understand this inconsistent reporting.

I've heard they want him a lot. They are probably over the cap so the only chance of re-signing him is if they trade for him. Masai must be pretty high on him. He did, of course, draft him. Let Pop develop him some while they use Kawhi, now get him back.

Seems like it would have to be a 3 way deal though, as I don't know who the Spurs would want unless they want OG. In that case I imagine the Spurs would have to send picks back, but they do have the Atlanta picks. Pop has a number of young players so he may hope to add a premier player in trade and a great pick this year, likely their 3rd generational C since he's been there in Victor.

Or Scoot, along with OG, Keldon Johnson, Vassell, etc.

[Ghost of Kleine]

IF this Hachimura acquisition does truly impact the flakers free agency flexibility, does this mean that if nothing else develops, We can finally look to a Paul/Shamet/Saric trade for Westbrick/ Toscano Anderson?? Trade Westbrick's 47 million expiring to Atlanta for Collins/Capela/ Kaminsky/ J Johnson? And maybe then use that in a three way with either Utah or maybe Toronto?? Or we could split Collins and Capela into different trades?

Capela-
Capela/ Crowder to Toronto for Van Vleet/ Boucher.

Collins-
Collins/ J Johnson/ Future (lotto protected) 1st/ 2 2nds to Utah for Clarkson/Vanderbilt/Olynyk?

(post trade deals)
Phoenix:
Van Vleet /Booker /Bridges /Johnson /Ayton.
Payne / Clarkson / Vandy / Olynyk/ Boucher.
Lee / Lee / Okogie / Kaminsky/ Biyombo.

Waived (or moved for future 2nds?
Landale, Wash, Ish?

[Crives]

IF this Hachimura acquisition does truly impact the flakers free agency flexibility, does this mean that if nothing else develops, We can finally look to a Paul/Shamet/Saric trade for Westbrick/ Toscano Anderson?? Trade Westbrick's 47 million expiring to Atlanta for Collins/Capela/ Kaminsky/ J Johnson? And maybe then use that in a three way with either Utah or maybe Toronto?? Or we could split Collins and Capela into different trades?

Capela-
Capela/ Crowder to Toronto for Van Vleet/ Boucher.

Collins-
Collins/ J Johnson/ Future (lotto protected) 1st/ 2 2nds to Utah for Clarkson/Vanderbilt/Olynyk?

(post trade deals)
Phoenix:
Van Vleet /Booker /Bridges /Johnson /Ayton.
Payne / Clarkson / Vandy / Olynyk/ Boucher.
Lee / Lee / Okogie / Kaminsky/ Biyombo.

Waived (or moved for future 2nds?
Landale, Wash, Ish?

Why the interest in collins? Can’t space the floor, can’t create his own shot, can’t defend.

[Ghost of Kleine]

IF this Hachimura acquisition does truly impact the flakers free agency flexibility, does this mean that if nothing else develops, We can finally look to a Paul/Shamet/Saric trade for Westbrick/ Toscano Anderson?? Trade Westbrick's 47 million expiring to Atlanta for Collins/Capela/ Kaminsky/ J Johnson? And maybe then use that in a three way with either Utah or maybe Toronto?? Or we could split Collins and Capela into different trades?

Capela-
Capela/ Crowder to Toronto for Van Vleet/ Boucher.

Collins-
Collins/ J Johnson/ Future (lotto protected) 1st/ 2 2nds to Utah for Clarkson/Vanderbilt/Olynyk?

(post trade deals)
Phoenix:
Van Vleet /Booker /Bridges /Johnson /Ayton.
Payne / Clarkson / Vandy / Olynyk/ Boucher.
Lee / Lee / Okogie / Kaminsky/ Biyombo.

Waived (or moved for future 2nds?
Landale, Wash, Ish?

Why the interest in collins? Can’t space the floor, can’t create his own shot, can’t defend.

The interest isn't for us to keep him, but to instead use him as an asset to get the players we want! (by acquiring him to flip him to Utah for the above package) ....... Because apparently Ainge covets him, OR MAYBE EVEN in a follow up deal for Kuzma?? (and fillers)? Or maybe ..........................just maybe we'd flip Collins to Charlotte for Rozier and Mcdaniels?? Regardless, there'll be teams that actually want him. So in this premise, he's a 25 million trade asset?

[Ghost of Kleine]

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[lilfishi22]

IF this Hachimura acquisition does truly impact the flakers free agency flexibility, does this mean that if nothing else develops, We can finally look to a Paul/Shamet/Saric trade for Westbrick/ Toscano Anderson?? Trade Westbrick's 47 million expiring to Atlanta for Collins/Capela/ Kaminsky/ J Johnson? And maybe then use that in a three way with either Utah or maybe Toronto?? Or we could split Collins and Capela into different trades?

Capela-
Capela/ Crowder to Toronto for Van Vleet/ Boucher.

Collins-
Collins/ J Johnson/ Future (lotto protected) 1st/ 2 2nds to Utah for Clarkson/Vanderbilt/Olynyk?

(post trade deals)
Phoenix:
Van Vleet /Booker /Bridges /Johnson /Ayton.
Payne / Clarkson / Vandy / Olynyk/ Boucher.
Lee / Lee / Okogie / Kaminsky/ Biyombo.

Waived (or moved for future 2nds?
Landale, Wash, Ish?

Why the interest in collins? Can’t space the floor, can’t create his own shot, can’t defend.

The interest isn't for us to keep him, but to instead use him as an asset to get the players we want! (by acquiring him to flip him to Utah for the above package) ....... Because apparently Ainge covets him, OR MAYBE EVEN in a follow up deal for Kuzma?? (and fillers)? Or maybe ..........................just maybe we'd flip Collins to Charlotte for Rozier and Mcdaniels?? Regardless, there'll be teams that actually want him. So in this premise, he's a 25 million trade asset?

Flipping players of his calibre and salary rarely happens in the NBA

[lilfishi22]

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I can't help but feel a sense of affirmation that it was indeed Crowder who handled the situation wrongly as opposed to some fans who blamed Monty/JJ on Crowder souring on the Suns. Promotions/demotions from certain line ups happen all the time and it's part of the business. It's frustrating as hell because Crowder is exactly the kind of vet we could've used this season, even if it means Craig doesn't have to start. To take yourself out of the team because you're not getting the extension or the starting spot is just the adult version of taking the ball and going home.

[Ghost of Kleine]

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Bigfoot and some others are gonna be in disbelief that I'm saying this!!! LOL
This is a move that we really need to make at the low cost of only a 2nd!

[Ghost of Kleine]

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[Ghost of Kleine]

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/270108/Hard-Cap-Not-Expected-In-NBAs-New-Collective-Bargaining-Agreement

The NBA and NBPA continue to negotiate their next collective bargaining agreement. One part of the talks that is not expected to be part of the final agreement is a hard cap, which the NBA has euphemistically called an "Upper Spending Limit."

In early December, Marc Stein of Substack reported that the NBA was genuine in their pursuit of a hard cap and that it wasn't simply a negotiating tactic.

"There's not going to be a hard salary cap... I don't think," said Brian Windhorst on his podcast. "I don't want to talk in absolutes. I think if that was really on the table, I don't think we'd be hearing there's momentum in talks.

"There sounds like there will be changes to the luxury tax system. Potentially making the high payrolls even more penal to try to get them under control. Also, possibly changing the levels of which teams are taxed, so there may be a give and take."

I know that the unknowns of the new hard cap premise is slowing down trade moves. And In the article it mentions a soft cap and no hard cap, BUT instead harsher luxury tax penalties to try and prevent teams from over spending! How could this affect us though with our new billionaire owner Ishbia telling Jones there's no restrictions and we'll take on long term salary??

[Ghost of Kleine]

Why the interest in collins? Can’t space the floor, can’t create his own shot, can’t defend.

The interest isn't for us to keep him, but to instead use him as an asset to get the players we want! (by acquiring him to flip him to Utah for the above package) ....... Because apparently Ainge covets him, OR MAYBE EVEN in a follow up deal for Kuzma?? (and fillers)? Or maybe ..........................just maybe we'd flip Collins to Charlotte for Rozier and Mcdaniels?? Regardless, there'll be teams that actually want him. So in this premise, he's a 25 million trade asset?

Flipping players of his calibre and salary rarely happens in the NBA

Even so, There's no rule preventing it ...............right??

[Ghost of Kleine]

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[BobbieL]

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I can't help but feel a sense of affirmation that it was indeed Crowder who handled the situation wrongly as opposed to some fans who blamed Monty/JJ on Crowder souring on the Suns. Promotions/demotions from certain line ups happen all the time and it's part of the business. It's frustrating as hell because Crowder is exactly the kind of vet we could've used this season, even if it means Craig doesn't have to start. To take yourself out of the team because you're not getting the extension or the starting spot is just the adult version of taking the ball and going home.

Hard to quantify extra wins with Crowder but they lost twice to the blazers by a point or two
Nuggets I think was close
A few other games where an extra body would have helped

As Week wrote - maybe BWG - he would have started for two months With Cam out.

I would say trade him to a lousy team but like Iguodala, they will just buy him out and he will go to the Celtics or bucks. Over that dude

[lilfishi22]

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I can't help but feel a sense of affirmation that it was indeed Crowder who handled the situation wrongly as opposed to some fans who blamed Monty/JJ on Crowder souring on the Suns. Promotions/demotions from certain line ups happen all the time and it's part of the business. It's frustrating as hell because Crowder is exactly the kind of vet we could've used this season, even if it means Craig doesn't have to start. To take yourself out of the team because you're not getting the extension or the starting spot is just the adult version of taking the ball and going home.

Hard to quantify extra wins with Crowder but they lost twice to the blazers by a point or two
Nuggets I think was close
A few other games where an extra body would have helped

As Week wrote - maybe BWG - he would have started for two months With Cam out.

I would say trade him to a lousy team but like Iguodala, they will just buy him out and he will go to the Celtics or bucks. Over that dude

For sure it'll be hard to quantify wins, I suppose my point is that just having healthy bodies and putting guys like Craig back on the bench instead of starting just makes everyone's role more familiar and hopefully allowing them to play their roles better. Crowder would've started essentially as soon as Cam got injured so he was not a starter for basically all of 8 games until the last couple.

Just frustrates me to no end because we have a guy who's perfectly healthy, ready to play multiple positions with the amount of injuries we've had and is one of the vets on this team. You expect more...you expect better from a guy who's been around the block

[Ghost of Kleine]

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/phoenix-suns/

Mavericks, Kings Interested In Rui Hachimura
January 23rd, 2023 at 9:05am CST by Arthur Hill

There had been reports that Hachimura was offered to the Suns as part of a deal for Jae Crowder, although a Wizards official denied that rumor earlier this month. Scotto hears that Washington no longer has interest in Crowder because he may not be able to make an immediate impact after such a long layoff.

So apparently Crowder sitting out for so long, AND Jones allowing him to just sit home and not play, has tanked his perceived trade value dramatically, and is the biggest reason that teams aren't valuing him! The reports that the suns have been looking for trades unsuccessfully for quite awhile now only leads further credence to this notion. Jones should've looked to trade him right away rather than to just sit him and eat his 10 million contract with no return on the investment. Hopefully he can salvage some modicum of value from this Crowder fiasco!

[Qwigglez]

Well this is annoying...

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[lilfishi22]

Well this is annoying...

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Would've loved Hachimura here. I know many don't think too highly of the guy since he's been pretty average but I like his player profile. Only 24, can shoot 3's and is relatively versatile. He would've been a good gamble if all it was were a couple of 2nds and Crowder

[Qwigglez]

It sounds like we are planning on sending Crowder to the Bucks. We are just trying to find a third team willing to take Grayson Allen and Jones is probably trying not to send the 2023 1st round pick. I think the most obvious third team will be the Jazz, but Jones doesn't want to send a 1st for Vanderbilt and Beasley. I still think Jones is hoping for Clarkson but Ainge probably wants 2 1st if he is giving up Clarkson AND Vanderbilt.

Suns get -
Jordan Clarkson
Jarred Vanderbilt
Serge Ibaka

Bucks get -
Jae Crowder

Jazz get -
Grayson Allen
Dario Saric
Suns 2023 1st
3 2nds from the Bucks

What is funny if this deal actually went through, Suns salary would stay the same for the remainder of the year, so it wouldn't add any money towards the luxury tax.

[lilfishi22]

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/phoenix-suns/

Mavericks, Kings Interested In Rui Hachimura
January 23rd, 2023 at 9:05am CST by Arthur Hill

There had been reports that Hachimura was offered to the Suns as part of a deal for Jae Crowder, although a Wizards official denied that rumor earlier this month. Scotto hears that Washington no longer has interest in Crowder because he may not be able to make an immediate impact after such a long layoff.

So apparently Crowder sitting out for so long, AND Jones allowing him to just sit home and not play, has tanked his perceived trade value dramatically, and is the biggest reason that teams aren't valuing him! The reports that the suns have been looking for trades unsuccessfully for quite awhile now only leads further credence to this notion. Jones should've looked to trade him right away rather than to just sit him and eat his 10 million contract with no return on the investment. Hopefully he can salvage some modicum of value from this Crowder fiasco!

Could look at it both ways. He would've had little trade value when teams were just starting out the season and not knowing whether they need a guy like Crowder or not as they didn't know how they would be placed in terms of the playoff standing so early in the regular season. A team like the Lakers for example were smart not to blow their assets early to shore them up for some sort of playoff run that early in the season when they didn't know how this new team would play out. No team has made a trade since the start of the season until the 5th of Jan and this is the first player for player trade so far.

I'm fine with Jones keeping this for the back pocket especially when you know the offers we got for Crowder was weak AF. If you knew what Crowder's baseline value is (Duncan Robinson/Grayson Allen) then you know those kinds of trades are always going to be there but had we made a trade, we wouldn't even have been rumored to be in discussion with the Wiz for a guy like Kuzma or Rui. There's a reason why there's so much activity around the trade deadline, it's when teams really start to put their cards on the table and take a gamble

[Saberestar]

Well this is annoying...

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