2022-23 Season Discussion and Review - the Blockbuster trade and playoff downfall

[bwgood77]

Book whines too much. Always has. He thinks he’s fouled every play. League needs to allow for more challenges tho. Why lose your challenge when you are right? Also, ignoring the verbal crap and stomp your feet reactions that Doncic does is out of line. Refs have to have loose orders to let some things slide with some players. Book just isnt on the list.
Btw, i liked the king game was a rough em up game. Would rather see that than a whistle heavy touch foul one.

Yeah, never understood whining about calls. How often do refs change their minds? Never. How irritating is it to them? Probably very. So if anything I think whining hurts your ability to get more calls. Don't try and tell someone they don't know how to do their jobs or they are likely going to go out of their way to please you.

I know it's obviously not just Book and a lot of players do it, but I don't think it helps even though some who DO whine get a lot of calls too. That likely boils down the fact they are fouled more. Some players are just great at drawing fouls...though I don't think it's fun to watch guys like Harden or Embiid do that.

[Ghost of Kleine]

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[King4Day]

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What does he mean by that?

[Ghost of Kleine]

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What does he mean by that?

I believe that he's subtly referring to the competition for playing time between the two if noticeably shooting well or in competition with Durant out. Additionally the competition between the two towards establishing greater value ( with quality playing time) towards their next contract as both are unrestricted agents this summer and will hope to show out for the remainder of the season towards that goal with Durant out?

[lilfishi22]

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What does he mean by that?

I believe that he's subtly referring to the competition for playing time between the two if noticeably shooting well or in competition with Durant out. Additionally the competition between the two towards establishing greater value ( with quality playing time) towards their next contract as both are unrestricted agents this summer and will hope to show out for the remainder of the season towards that goal with Durant out?

I think it's simply saying that this shootout between two competitors is more than just the simple physical act of shooting There's the mental side of things, the preparation side of things, execution side of things, perhaps a little trash talk and just the competitiveness between two elite athletes. Like you and I watch this and it's just two guys shooting shots but inside the minds of these athletes, every little competition is something they want to win. It's how they made it into the NBA

[King4Day]

Read on Twitter

What does he mean by that?

I believe that he's subtly referring to the competition for playing time between the two if noticeably shooting well or in competition with Durant out. Additionally the competition between the two towards establishing greater value ( with quality playing time) towards their next contract as both are unrestricted agents this summer and will hope to show out for the remainder of the season towards that goal with Durant out?

That may be a problem then. One doesn't get time, and the other doesn't validate the time he gets.

[POLI]

They need to have restrictions on these low cut sneakers/ low tops or whatever these players are wearing. There definitely wasn't nearly as much of this prevalence towards frequent random ankle injuries back when players actually wore high tops with better ankle support. Eddie Johnson mentioned this a few times not long ago on his podcast with Justin Termine. And IF the inclination is to adamantly wear low cut sneakers, then the training staff should be focusing more on ankle support/ stability options and or taping players up better pregame.

I am sorry to disagree, but there is no sneaker that prevents you from twisting an ankle.
I prefer low shoes, although it's been already a few years since I played my last serious game.
Ankle strength is the key to not getting injuries there.
Low shoes have the advantage of having low profile soles so it is more difficult to roll an ankle, while high shoes usually had high soles, which tend to allow your feet/ankle to roll.
It is not only my point of view, but the point of view of many specialists.
Johnson's comments are more based on old school ideas, I believe.
It is the same with Barkley and Shaq and Kenny saying things like that one many times.
One of the problems could have to do with the time they spent trying to improve. KD usually gets through a 2hour long workout before attending the team's own practice.
Then before games goes through a crazy stuff of drills. Much more than just a warm up.
Barkley said the other day, and Shaq said the same too, that avoided doing much before games to avoid the risk of injuries and because playing every two nights plus PO is enough.
Cheers!

No issues with disagreements man or differing perspectives. It's just that high tops ( in addition to), proper taping ( preventative measures) help minimize the likelihood of rolling your ankles as prominently. I know that you disagree on this which is fine. But I've also played quite a lot of basketball over the last couple of decades and even in my younger years playing in high level situations, tournaments and fast paced very physical play. So even though I'd agree with you wholeheartedly on strengthening exercises etc being and important preventative measure, from my personal experience and I'm sure the consensus opinion would be that high tops would provide more additional structural assistive support.

I used to tape up and wear a sleeve occasionally with my high tops and it provided significant support. Whenever I did wear low tops, it allowed my foot to turn with more range. But by the same measure, it also allowed my ankle to flex in awkward ranges and positions more frequently too. Not sure of the consensus opinions these days. But I'd for my part much rather have the additional support. And hope to minimize the possibilities of turning an ankle if at all possible.

Twisting an ankle (or not) has much more to do with physical preparation and genetics.
I just had an ankle issue while playing basketball endlessly in my teens, 20s and 30s, and it was on a drinking night (when my cognitive system and prioception were in minimum levels), compared to the level of awareness you are supposed to bear at basketball games.
I am against all additional, artificial help, as I believe the human body has all it needs to avoid getting injured.
Even tape around the ankles causes a reduction on blood circulation and diminishes ligaments' work and strength. No tape in the world is going to make uo for the work of your short ligaments around and among the bones in your feet.

But I understand that mental security is an issue, like placebo, and there are people who cannot bear feeling unprotected.

It is a similar situation that the one with people using a knee protection for running or playing basketball, even years after the issue was solved. They are not letting their muscles and ligaments get back to normal. But it is impossible that they listen to you to stop doing that.

[POLI]

#AllRefsAreBastards[/quote]

This is why I can't take NBA as seriously anymore than I used to... I remember how pissed I used to be back in the old days when MJ and the Bulls got all the calls and got away with murder...than the Spurs with Tim, Bowen (f him in particular), Horry (him too)... Shaq and Kobe fLakers... and I just couldn't believe how nobody else (important) is seeing what I'm seeing. Basically the (important) games are refereed by 2 set of rules for the opposing teams. Then the Donaghy thing happened, and most of it made sense - which is also in this article with the NBA/FBI meeting, etc...
Eversince I only watch games as entertainment, and while I still see the refs working the fix, I don't care as much. I just hope that one day the Suns will be on the good side of the calls and we win 2-3 chips with a bit of help from our friends.
(Another consequence - I rarley buy nba merch since then... I bought a city edition short now, becouse of the native tribe thing, and I bought an original warmup T-Shirt from the 90s /with original tags, never been used/ about 5 years ago... and that's it... I don't give them money... stream games for free usually, etc...)

*and this has been going on eversince... LeBrons good teams, then the Donkey with the warriors... they just do whatever they want and get the calls, depending on what the league (or the refs?) needs. One of the most blatant ones was the Donkey suspention in the finals - I mean the guy has been doing the exact same thing for 4 years without so much as a whisper, and then you suspend him in the finals for something that he is doing every game for 4 years without a whistle?!?! I had no horses in that race, but it was puke worthy - or really funny, whichever way you want to look at it.
Then we had our finals run... Giannis was the best player for sure, but he had more offensive fouls than I have seen in a long time and while Jrue is a very good defender, he got away with murder. Which would have been fine - IF we had similar treatment on D. But no.
Rant over[/quote]


That series between the Kings and the Lakers should have opened the eyes for everybody, but people prefer to live knowing that they are being cheated than confronting reality, which is just unbearable to them.
Obviously this is not just appliable to basket, as we are seeing since already 3 years ago.
Society is blind, no matter which field you want to talk about...

[Ghost of Kleine]

I am sorry to disagree, but there is no sneaker that prevents you from twisting an ankle.
I prefer low shoes, although it's been already a few years since I played my last serious game.
Ankle strength is the key to not getting injuries there.
Low shoes have the advantage of having low profile soles so it is more difficult to roll an ankle, while high shoes usually had high soles, which tend to allow your feet/ankle to roll.
It is not only my point of view, but the point of view of many specialists.
Johnson's comments are more based on old school ideas, I believe.
It is the same with Barkley and Shaq and Kenny saying things like that one many times.
One of the problems could have to do with the time they spent trying to improve. KD usually gets through a 2hour long workout before attending the team's own practice.
Then before games goes through a crazy stuff of drills. Much more than just a warm up.
Barkley said the other day, and Shaq said the same too, that avoided doing much before games to avoid the risk of injuries and because playing every two nights plus PO is enough.
Cheers!

No issues with disagreements man or differing perspectives. It's just that high tops ( in addition to), proper taping ( preventative measures) help minimize the likelihood of rolling your ankles as prominently. I know that you disagree on this which is fine. But I've also played quite a lot of basketball over the last couple of decades and even in my younger years playing in high level situations, tournaments and fast paced very physical play. So even though I'd agree with you wholeheartedly on strengthening exercises etc being and important preventative measure, from my personal experience and I'm sure the consensus opinion would be that high tops would provide more additional structural assistive support.

I used to tape up and wear a sleeve occasionally with my high tops and it provided significant support. Whenever I did wear low tops, it allowed my foot to turn with more range. But by the same measure, it also allowed my ankle to flex in awkward ranges and positions more frequently too. Not sure of the consensus opinions these days. But I'd for my part much rather have the additional support. And hope to minimize the possibilities of turning an ankle if at all possible.

Twisting an ankle (or not) has much more to do with physical preparation and genetics.
I just had an ankle issue while playing basketball endlessly in my teens, 20s and 30s, and it was on a drinking night (when my cognitive system and prioception were in minimum levels), compared to the level of awareness you are supposed to bear at basketball games.
I am against all additional, artificial help, as I believe the human body has all it needs to avoid getting injured.
Even tape around the ankles causes a reduction on blood circulation and diminishes ligaments' work and strength. No tape in the world is going to make uo for the work of your short ligaments around and among the bones in your feet.

But I understand that mental security is an issue, like placebo, and there are people who cannot bear feeling unprotected.

It is a similar situation that the one with people using a knee protection for running or playing basketball, even years after the issue was solved. They are not letting their muscles and ligaments get back to normal. But it is impossible that they listen to you to stop doing that.

For sure there's a fair argument to be made for natural strengthening and adaptitivity in those situations engaging all supportive muscle groups preventatively. But some studies have shown that even beyond the mental support aspects of additional support to feel more secure, that having the presence of those additional support measures actually engages the proprioceptive adaptivity of those muscle groups in a preventative context. As in wearing the braces or taping offers a level of additional reactionary support to those surrounding muscle groups keeping them more readily engaged and facilitating those surrounding muscle groups towards preventing ankle inversion injuries.

So there's actually duality in purpose to taping and/ or bracing beyond just the " security blanket " effect it provides by increasing focused proprioceptive engagement of those supportive muscle groups of the ankle. The counter argument to that is the additional support for that premise can also be restrictive to free range movement in static/ dynamic situations to the effect of putting ( redirecting) additional resulting pressure to another area that may increase potential for injury such as Achilles, perroneus, knee, hamstring, etc depending upon the area of restriction.

The best preventative measures are as you and SSOL have already mentioned, to strengthen and promote these supportive muscle groups in training preparation and physiological advancement with help of the training staff, etc. But this premise of taping, bracing, custom orthotics, supportive equipment becomes much more relevant for those players that (specifically) need them that have prior injuries, weaknesses in those areas and seek assistive support to offset those weaknesses and concerns prior to full recovery or sustainable strengthening measures.

[Funky Tut]

Ugh, we have the Bucks next, we just do not match up well against that squad. Giannis had 46 points the other night and I was watching highlights of his scoring. The dude literally just drives to the basket and dunks or scores on alley-oops. Every single highlight was him driving to the basket and dunking or throwing down an alley-oop, that's really all he can do. Problem is you can't stop it, if you impede his drive its a foul or he will just use his extreme athleticism to get around you and dunk.

[Saberestar]

Ugh, we have the Bucks next, we just do not match up well against that squad. Giannis had 46 points the other night and I was watching highlights of his scoring. The dude literally just drives to the basket and dunks or scores on alley-oops. Every single highlight was him driving to the basket and dunking or throwing down an alley-oop, that's really all he can do. Problem is you can't stop it, if you impede his drive its a foul or he will just use his extreme athleticism to get around you and dunk.

Don't tell us that after watching him kill our souls in the Finals and so many times to every **** team.

The guy is amazing and knows how to play ball. And yes, he is a physical specimen and has crazy physical tools too...but he is much more than that.

[King4Day]

I know it's not something the Suns do but I almost feel like Monty should sit Booker, CP, & DA tonight. Let the bench fight through this one and live another day. Just a bad matchup on an unfortunate back to back. I know Milwaukee is on a back to back too but is it really any different with us also flying from Cali to PHX, than it is them?
I'd love to eat crow but I don't expect us to win. I see a competitive first quarter that ends with the Bucks starting to figure it out. We then begin to fall behind by 7,8,10, 13 pts going into half. The rest of the game is a wear-down fest that leads to a loss of around 7-12 points.
No moral victories. Just tired players.

I'm just frustrated by this team as a whole. More so just venting.

[MrMiyagi]

I know it's not something the Suns do but I almost feel like Monty should sit Booker, CP, & DA tonight. Let the bench fight through this one and live another day. Just a bad matchup on an unfortunate back to back. I know Milwaukee is on a back to back too but is it really any different with us also flying from Cali to PHX, than it is them?
I'd love to eat crow but I don't expect us to win. I see a competitive first quarter that ends with the Bucks starting to figure it out. We then begin to fall behind by 7,8,10, 13 pts going into half. The rest of the game is a wear-down fest that leads to a loss of around 7-12 points.
No moral victories. Just tired players.

I'm just frustrated by this team as a whole. More so just venting.

Why not sit everyone for the rest of the year and go into next season fresh?

[King4Day]

I know it's not something the Suns do but I almost feel like Monty should sit Booker, CP, & DA tonight. Let the bench fight through this one and live another day. Just a bad matchup on an unfortunate back to back. I know Milwaukee is on a back to back too but is it really any different with us also flying from Cali to PHX, than it is them?
I'd love to eat crow but I don't expect us to win. I see a competitive first quarter that ends with the Bucks starting to figure it out. We then begin to fall behind by 7,8,10, 13 pts going into half. The rest of the game is a wear-down fest that leads to a loss of around 7-12 points.
No moral victories. Just tired players.

I'm just frustrated by this team as a whole. More so just venting.

Why not sit everyone for the rest of the year and go into next season fresh?

Well, they wouldn't roll their ankle in warmups at least.
That's what is really bothering me. Once that injury happened, the trade became very regrettable.
Maybe he comes back, and we win, or maybe it's a recurring thing and the trade becomes worse than drafting DA over Luka with Bridges becoming a star.

[SunsRback4Good]

I know it's not something the Suns do but I almost feel like Monty should sit Booker, CP, & DA tonight. Let the bench fight through this one and live another day. Just a bad matchup on an unfortunate back to back. I know Milwaukee is on a back to back too but is it really any different with us also flying from Cali to PHX, than it is them?
I'd love to eat crow but I don't expect us to win. I see a competitive first quarter that ends with the Bucks starting to figure it out. We then begin to fall behind by 7,8,10, 13 pts going into half. The rest of the game is a wear-down fest that leads to a loss of around 7-12 points.
No moral victories. Just tired players.

I'm just frustrated by this team as a whole. More so just venting.

Why not sit everyone for the rest of the year and go into next season fresh?

You’re the type of person who rather watch this team fail than succeed. Not sure if you trying to be a joker character from “ Dark Knight” but it’s getting frustrating lately.

[King4Day]

I know it's not something the Suns do but I almost feel like Monty should sit Booker, CP, & DA tonight. Let the bench fight through this one and live another day. Just a bad matchup on an unfortunate back to back. I know Milwaukee is on a back to back too but is it really any different with us also flying from Cali to PHX, than it is them?
I'd love to eat crow but I don't expect us to win. I see a competitive first quarter that ends with the Bucks starting to figure it out. We then begin to fall behind by 7,8,10, 13 pts going into half. The rest of the game is a wear-down fest that leads to a loss of around 7-12 points.
No moral victories. Just tired players.

I'm just frustrated by this team as a whole. More so just venting.

Why not sit everyone for the rest of the year and go into next season fresh?

You’re the type of person who rather watch this team fail than succeed. Not sure if you trying to be a joker character from “ Dark Knight” but it’s getting frustrating lately.

Not at all. On the contrary, years ago I used to be the one who would try to spin positive light on everything. The problem with this is, I am bottling up the anger I develop inside. But this is a forum, and right now I'm not happy with a lot of the goings on this season. This is where I will vent my frustrations and get it off my chest. Maybe some of it is reverse psychology for myself and in other cases, just an outlet since I don't live in Phoenix.

I'm not going to post on the Suns Facebook forums because they are mostly made up of a-holes.
Reddit doesn't have a good forum strategy since whatever you post easily gets lost.

I've got no problem venting right now and I have a right to it. Feel free to debate why you disagree. Otherwise take my venting for what it is. Using RealGM as my outlet.

EDIT: And believe me, I do not want to see this team fail. I put too much emotion, time, and money to want to see this team fail

[bwgood77]

I know it's not something the Suns do but I almost feel like Monty should sit Booker, CP, & DA tonight. Let the bench fight through this one and live another day. Just a bad matchup on an unfortunate back to back. I know Milwaukee is on a back to back too but is it really any different with us also flying from Cali to PHX, than it is them?
I'd love to eat crow but I don't expect us to win. I see a competitive first quarter that ends with the Bucks starting to figure it out. We then begin to fall behind by 7,8,10, 13 pts going into half. The rest of the game is a wear-down fest that leads to a loss of around 7-12 points.
No moral victories. Just tired players.

I'm just frustrated by this team as a whole. More so just venting.

Why would you sit players? Are they ailing or something? Do you not think they are fit enough to play in b2bs? I guess I can maybe see an argument for Paul if you don't think his body can handle it at this age but he probably thinks he can. But Ayton and Book are 24 and 26.

I generally hate load management though if that is what you are getting at. Maybe for someone like KD who seems to have a lot higher chance of injury. But he would want to play too if he could.

I think everyone needs to be playing and tuning up for the playoffs. We seemed to rest some down the stretch last year and I think it may have had a negative impact.

[King4Day]

I know it's not something the Suns do but I almost feel like Monty should sit Booker, CP, & DA tonight. Let the bench fight through this one and live another day. Just a bad matchup on an unfortunate back to back. I know Milwaukee is on a back to back too but is it really any different with us also flying from Cali to PHX, than it is them?
I'd love to eat crow but I don't expect us to win. I see a competitive first quarter that ends with the Bucks starting to figure it out. We then begin to fall behind by 7,8,10, 13 pts going into half. The rest of the game is a wear-down fest that leads to a loss of around 7-12 points.
No moral victories. Just tired players.

I'm just frustrated by this team as a whole. More so just venting.

Why would you sit players? Are they ailing or something? Do you not think they are fit enough to play in b2bs? I guess I can maybe see an argument for Paul if you don't think his body can handle it at this age but he probably thinks he can. But Ayton and Book are 24 and 26.

I generally hate load management though if that is what you are getting at. Maybe for someone like KD who seems to have a lot higher chance of injury. But he would want to play too if he could.

I think everyone needs to be playing and tuning up for the playoffs. We seemed to rest some down the stretch last year and I think it may have had a negative impact.

As mentioned, just a vent post. They don’t need to rest but if they come out with the same lack of effort and looking like they’re running around like they don’t know what they’re doing or have a plan, then don’t waste anyone’s time tonight.

[RaisingArizona]

Shamet continues to be unreliable. I would cut the guy loose and get another body who can play

[bwgood77]

I know it's not something the Suns do but I almost feel like Monty should sit Booker, CP, & DA tonight. Let the bench fight through this one and live another day. Just a bad matchup on an unfortunate back to back. I know Milwaukee is on a back to back too but is it really any different with us also flying from Cali to PHX, than it is them?
I'd love to eat crow but I don't expect us to win. I see a competitive first quarter that ends with the Bucks starting to figure it out. We then begin to fall behind by 7,8,10, 13 pts going into half. The rest of the game is a wear-down fest that leads to a loss of around 7-12 points.
No moral victories. Just tired players.

I'm just frustrated by this team as a whole. More so just venting.

Why would you sit players? Are they ailing or something? Do you not think they are fit enough to play in b2bs? I guess I can maybe see an argument for Paul if you don't think his body can handle it at this age but he probably thinks he can. But Ayton and Book are 24 and 26.

I generally hate load management though if that is what you are getting at. Maybe for someone like KD who seems to have a lot higher chance of injury. But he would want to play too if he could.

I think everyone needs to be playing and tuning up for the playoffs. We seemed to rest some down the stretch last year and I think it may have had a negative impact.

As mentioned, just a vent post. They don’t need to rest but if they come out with the same lack of effort and looking like they’re running around like they don’t know what they’re doing or have a plan, then don’t waste anyone’s time tonight.

We lost because GS hit 19 3s and we hit 4. We shot poorly from deep and will never win with shooting like that (or very rarely). I imagine if we would have played the exact same game but instead of 4-21 from 2, we were 8-21 from 3, and won by 1, you wouldn't feel there was a lack of effort or plan. Bad shooting isn't a plan, even though we really don't have the 3 pt shooters in our lineup anymore with Okogie and Craig in there instead of Mikal and Cam (when KD's out).