2024-25 Season Discussion and Speculation

[garrick]

You're likely right.

I would bet that is for Rob Williams.

Makes sense because Williams has 2 more years left on his contract so Nurkic having 1 more year it not a big problem for the Blazers.

Williams is exactly the type of C that we need, obviously the issue is his health but he is healthy now.

Nurkic + 2nd for Rob Williams.

That would be an upgrade.

Timelord is damaged goods sadly.

He is frequently sitting out games for Portland and we would really be rolling the dice with him, a bold gamble that could pay off but the odds that he will stay healthy are not great.

[Ghost of Kleine]

I would bet that is for Rob Williams.

Makes sense because Williams has 2 more years left on his contract so Nurkic having 1 more year it not a big problem for the Blazers.

Williams is exactly the type of C that we need, obviously the issue is his health but he is healthy now.

Nurkic + 2nd for Rob Williams.

That would be an upgrade.

Timelord is damaged goods sadly.

He is frequently sitting out games for Portland and we would really be rolling the dice with him, a bold gamble that could pay off but the odds that he will stay healthy are not great.

This is why I believe it'd be critical to secure a Timelord/ Richards (top choice) or Timelord/ Valuncias combo. So that he can play more in limited minutes dependent upon matchups. I'd also push for Reath as a filler (3rd rotation 5) because he's long, mobile, and can hit threes which would be intriguing for me playing alongside of Ighodaro at the 4 off the bench. Heck, even landing Timelord and then trading with Brooklyn for Sharpe (younger, more mobile and better rim-protecting version of Nurkic with maybe Watford as a filler.

But basically having two centers coming back in a trade. One bigger and more physical to bang (Valuncias). And an athletic rim-running/shot-blocking one in Richards. Although I think Richards should be the clear priority for us honestly. I also think that a Valuncias/Richards combo would be a strong potential postseason upgrade for us that could address various matchups.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Read on Twitter

[sunsbg]

Only positive is they are offering 2y and not 3y contract to Butler. So mediocrity for two years and once they expire the team becomes a bottom feeder with no assets for rebuild.

[Saberestar]

I would bet that is for Rob Williams.

Makes sense because Williams has 2 more years left on his contract so Nurkic having 1 more year it not a big problem for the Blazers.

Williams is exactly the type of C that we need, obviously the issue is his health but he is healthy now.

Nurkic + 2nd for Rob Williams.

That would be an upgrade.

Timelord is damaged goods sadly.

He is frequently sitting out games for Portland and we would really be rolling the dice with him, a bold gamble that could pay off but the odds that he will stay healthy are not great.

Yeah, but if we don't have any other better option?

Do you prefer to have Rob Williams or Nurkic on the roster?

[garrick]

That would be an upgrade.

Timelord is damaged goods sadly.

He is frequently sitting out games for Portland and we would really be rolling the dice with him, a bold gamble that could pay off but the odds that he will stay healthy are not great.

Yeah, but if we don't have any other better option?

Do you prefer to have Rob Williams or Nurkic on the roster?

At this point I would rather have Nurkic just for his availability.

Timelord has had 3 knee injuries already and that's not counting all the various ailments he has suffered as well leading him to miss so many games.

[bullsaficianado]

Nurkic trade within 48 hours.

You're likely right.

I would bet that is for Rob Williams.

Makes sense because Williams has 2 more years left on his contract so Nurkic having 1 more year it not a big problem for the Blazers.

Williams is exactly the type of C that we need, obviously the issue is his health but he is healthy now.

Nurkic + 2nd for Rob Williams.

Why do the Blazers want Nurkic back? that's the real question.

[mademan]

Only positive is they are offering 2y and not 3y contract to Butler. So mediocrity for two years and once they expire the team becomes a bottom feeder with no assets for rebuild.

2 year extension. I imagine he opts in and gets extended, meaning its actually 3 years total

[sunsbg]

Only positive is they are offering 2y and not 3y contract to Butler. So mediocrity for two years and once they expire the team becomes a bottom feeder with no assets for rebuild.

2 year extension. I imagine he opts in and gets extended, meaning its actually 3 years total

Then it better be a 3y/120 or something like that mentioned above.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

Read on Twitter

But do other teams even legitimately want to extend Butler anyways? I haven't really heard about any other teams openly stating that they would give him an extension. So nothing really changes with this because the heat don't want Beal, if any teams at all even do.

And that's even if Beal would improve a trade somewhere. This Butler trade premise just needs to end so we can look at actual realistic possibilities!

Mat the Whale? Maybe better: Fat Mat. Or The Bag Man. Baggy Mat, Fat Cat, Mr. Bags, Big Mat, Big Stacks Matty, Mat Stacks, Mat the Cat...

I could go on forever, baby...

Can The Bag Man?

I like Wishbia (compliments to Frank)...if we want a variation on Mat, without a lot of thought...Fat Cat Mat? It appears you were trying to use Fat Mat instead of Fat Cat but Fat Cat Mat has a nice ring.

Thanks! I fixed it.

We know that Fat Cat Matty Stacks gives the man the bag. This old team keeps rolling. Groan.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

So you wanna give Booker away for nothing.....so we can tank for years and years and years and in doing so get a player that HOPEFULLY as good as Booker is now?

Did I get that right? Cause you want Brooks and Reed (just sent back to the G League btw) and our picks for Booker. You also said you'd give KD away for the second round picks and swaps we gave up for Beal. Along with filler.

So to recap both Booker and KD traded and the entire grand return is:

Dillon Brooks
Reed Sheppard
Our picks

That's your version of best case scenario?

HIs point is the most important pieces by far are getting OUR picks because they are tied to how bad our team is (will be) and we will certainly be last in the west and bottom 3 or 4 team. I would love to get Sengun, would really like Smith Jr, or Thompson.

However, each of our picks is more valuable than Green, Eason, Sheppard, or any of those guys, and maybe more valuable than ANY of their players...because they could all quite easily be #1 or at least top 4 picks.

If you trade Booker elsewhere and maybe get a better player but get a few picks that are that teams, and Book makes that team good or top tier, the picks are not that valuable at all. Like not even lotto...almost maybe like 2nd rounders.

That's a HUGE difference.

Fine, there's a huge gap between the 2 on that we can agree.

Look, just on basic math alone the Rockets have to get rid of Jalen Green if they take on Booker. Why dudes are willing to take nothing on the dollar is funny and sad. You can ask for more.

If we're looking for wins, we're doing worse with Jalen Green than with Booker. I guess you're saying, why not wait until the summer. Mostly I've been afraid some untimely sequence of events will remove Durant. But as the season goes on, that starts to like less and less likely. Perhaps you're right.

Brad's looked much better since we demoted him to the bench. The dude can play. Perhaps this will improve his trade value and we can get Jimmy Butler more-or-less straight up.

Or perhaps, if Beal's contract is truly such a negative, it would be Big Brain to trade Booker for Jimmy Butler and The World by trading Booker in a three way deal to wherever the hell for Butler PLUS whatever in the whole world of basketball we want. If it's truly true that all Wishbia wants to win, you could probably add a star player to Beal/Butler/Durant by trading Booker.

Booker doesn't have an NTC, after all.

[King4Day]

Trading Booker would get us a young piece and picks. He's our 'out' for the mess we're in if necessary. Trading Booker for Butler (even if they added anything of value along with him) would be malpractice.
Trading KD would be our 'one more chance to add pieces that fit'.

[bwgood77]

Read on Twitter

Would people do this just to get off of Beals' contract? Not that Beal would waive his no-trade clause to go there, but theoretically IF he would do it, would people entertain this? Personally, I'd lean more towards a Beal/ 2031 1st (top 4 protected)/ future 2nd for Jerami Grant/ Robert Williams/ Jabari Walker deal.

This way we could run with a rotation of:

Jones/ Booker/ Grant/ Durant/ Timelord.
Morris/ Allen/ Dunn/ O'neale/ Richards??
Gillespie/ S Curry/ Allen/ Walker/Ighodaro.

**(separate trade- Plumlee/ Bol Bol/ D Lee somewhere for 2 2nds) and then package those 2-3 2nds (whatever we have left) for Nick Richards and Seth Curry.

75/25 in favor of Ayton in a poll in the responses.

[bwgood77]

Read on Twitter

So that'd be $60.5 million per year!
And if true! That would be insane and really another bad decision added to many. They we're mentioning on locked on Suns that if a Butler deal were to actually happen, the deal would be 110-112/ 3 years ( $ 36-38 million per year) which would obviously be much better and more palatable by far! I get the inherent value of getting off of Beals' no-trade clause. But at $60 million per year for a 36-year-old Butler??? That'd be nearly as bad if not as bad as trying to move Beal in terms of perceived negative value.

But even worse than that, would be the clear underlying message that if Ishbia is willing to overpay by that much for a 36-year-old Butler with KD extending upon the acquisition of Butler. This basically indicates that Ishbia is going to continue to try and push this massive trainwreck for at least another two years. And by then, KD will either be retired or have no trade value left!!! And Butler will only have minimal to no trade value too at 38 years old and $60 million. And even Booker will have less perceived trade value at 30 years old (especially if he continues to struggle and regress.

I really hope that this doesn't happen because if it somehow does, then our future will be utterly destroyed with zero hope of getting back on track. And we'll then be in a worse rebuild than even under parsimonious Saver himself! We'd be looking at a 20-year rebuild minimum.

Lemme ask you this though ....

Do you really think Ishbia is willing to blow it up this soon after buying the team? Ticket sales would plummet. He's probably thinking that at least with these names on the team he can still fool people into buying tix.

Wonder if it's a situation where he wouldnt even think of blowing it all up until he's closer to break even in his investment.

FYI I'm currently in the blow it up camp.

Are ticket sales good? I was thinking they were not great. He doesn't seem to care a ton about money so I don't think the ticket sales would be what would prevent it. I think it would mean admitting the go all in for KD plan didn't work, and that we need to rebuild.

He would look a lot better if he rebuilt early in his tenure than if he held off and we were in basketball hell for a few years trying to make and get out of the first round, while continuing to trade away picks 7 years into the future.

[bwgood77]

I'm thinking Ish is like Proscrove (sp) the former Nets owner who forced the Paul Pierce/KG trade and led to the Celts getting Tatum and Brown. Completely ruining their future, then seeing as how it sucks to have a losing team with no picks and no cap room...he bailed. Sold the team. Ish seems like that kinda dude. Which I'm sure sounds good to some him selling, but it would mean that we would have another 6 yrs or so of crap and also us having the worst record and giving another team a franchise player.

Long story short, we ALL need to be against this Jimmy B thing.

Him and his brother are trying to buy the Twins. Maybe if that goes through they will try to bail. But no, I don't think so. I think he will drive us into the ground and trade our 31 for whatever he can, extend those guys 2 years and then in 2 years he can trade our 33 pick unprotected for one last push after we've missed the playoffs for a few years...he will really try to get back. And maybe finally, at the trade deadline in 2028 when KD's extension is about to expire, he will try to trade 39 year old KD and realize he can't get that much.

Then in the summer of 2028, he will attempt to give Book another supermax when he is an UFA, and Book will leave us and we will get nothing in return.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

Read on Twitter

So that'd be $60.5 million per year!
And if true! That would be insane and really another bad decision added to many. They we're mentioning on locked on Suns that if a Butler deal were to actually happen, the deal would be 110-112/ 3 years ( $ 36-38 million per year) which would obviously be much better and more palatable by far! I get the inherent value of getting off of Beals' no-trade clause. But at $60 million per year for a 36-year-old Butler??? That'd be nearly as bad if not as bad as trying to move Beal in terms of perceived negative value.

But even worse than that, would be the clear underlying message that if Ishbia is willing to overpay by that much for a 36-year-old Butler with KD extending upon the acquisition of Butler. This basically indicates that Ishbia is going to continue to try and push this massive trainwreck for at least another two years. And by then, KD will either be retired or have no trade value left!!! And Butler will only have minimal to no trade value too at 38 years old and $60 million. And even Booker will have less perceived trade value at 30 years old (especially if he continues to struggle and regress.

I really hope that this doesn't happen because if it somehow does, then our future will be utterly destroyed with zero hope of getting back on track. And we'll then be in a worse rebuild than even under parsimonious Saver himself! We'd be looking at a 20-year rebuild minimum.

Lemme ask you this though ....

Do you really think Ishbia is willing to blow it up this soon after buying the team? Ticket sales would plummet. He's probably thinking that at least with these names on the team he can still fool people into buying tix.

Wonder if it's a situation where he wouldnt even think of blowing it all up until he's closer to break even in his investment.

FYI I'm currently in the blow it up camp.

Are ticket sales good? I was thinking they were not great. He doesn't seem to care a ton about money so I don't think the ticket sales would be what would prevent it. I think it would mean admitting the go all in for KD plan didn't work, and that we need to rebuild.

He would look a lot better if he rebuilt early in his tenure than if he held off and we were in basketball hell for a few years trying to make and get out of the first round, while continuing to trade away picks 7 years into the future.

If Wishbia's truly willing to spend a billion dollars to make sure Houston's leverage over us ain't ****, then all bets are off.

[bwgood77]

HIs point is the most important pieces by far are getting OUR picks because they are tied to how bad our team is (will be) and we will certainly be last in the west and bottom 3 or 4 team. I would love to get Sengun, would really like Smith Jr, or Thompson.

However, each of our picks is more valuable than Green, Eason, Sheppard, or any of those guys, and maybe more valuable than ANY of their players...because they could all quite easily be #1 or at least top 4 picks.

If you trade Booker elsewhere and maybe get a better player but get a few picks that are that teams, and Book makes that team good or top tier, the picks are not that valuable at all. Like not even lotto...almost maybe like 2nd rounders.

That's a HUGE difference.

Fine, there's a huge gap between the 2 on that we can agree.

Look, just on basic math alone the Rockets have to get rid of Jalen Green if they take on Booker. Why dudes are willing to take nothing on the dollar is funny and sad. You can ask for more.

If we're looking for wins, we're doing worse with Jalen Green than with Booker. I guess you're saying, why not wait until the summer. Mostly I've been afraid some untimely sequence of events will remove Durant. But as the season goes on, that starts to like less and less likely. Perhaps you're right.

Brad's looked much better since we demoted him to the bench. The dude can play. Perhaps this will improve his trade value and we can get Jimmy Butler more-or-less straight up.

Or perhaps, if Beal's contract is truly such a negative, it would be Big Brain to trade Booker for Jimmy Butler and The World by trading Booker in a three way deal to wherever the hell for Butler PLUS whatever in the whole world of basketball we want. If it's truly true that all Wishbia wants to win, you could probably add a star player to Beal/Butler/Durant by trading Booker.

Booker doesn't have an NTC, after all.

I had that thought before. If you really want Butler to put us over the top, and we can't get him for Beal, if we moved Book in a deal for him we could probably get some picks back in that exchange, assuming he goes to a 3rd team and they send something to Miami and picks to us. Then we can compete with 3 older guys that have talent and have some picks back. I know we talked a lot about what prospect Houston would give up, but what if they got Book, we got Butler and our 3 picks, and the Heat got the filler contracts (Brooks, Adams, and one young prospect).

Obviously that is very far fetched and not going to happen, but I did have that thought a few days ago. We kind of still get to compete, and get our picks.

[Slim Charless]

Fine, there's a huge gap between the 2 on that we can agree.

Look, just on basic math alone the Rockets have to get rid of Jalen Green if they take on Booker. Why dudes are willing to take nothing on the dollar is funny and sad. You can ask for more.

If we're looking for wins, we're doing worse with Jalen Green than with Booker. I guess you're saying, why not wait until the summer. Mostly I've been afraid some untimely sequence of events will remove Durant. But as the season goes on, that starts to like less and less likely. Perhaps you're right.

Brad's looked much better since we demoted him to the bench. The dude can play. Perhaps this will improve his trade value and we can get Jimmy Butler more-or-less straight up.

Or perhaps, if Beal's contract is truly such a negative, it would be Big Brain to trade Booker for Jimmy Butler and The World by trading Booker in a three way deal to wherever the hell for Butler PLUS whatever in the whole world of basketball we want. If it's truly true that all Wishbia wants to win, you could probably add a star player to Beal/Butler/Durant by trading Booker.

Booker doesn't have an NTC, after all.

I had that thought before. If you really want Butler to put us over the top, and we can't get him for Beal, if we moved Book in a deal for him we could probably get some picks back in that exchange, assuming he goes to a 3rd team and they send something to Miami and picks to us. Then we can compete with 3 older guys that have talent and have some picks back. I know we talked a lot about what prospect Houston would give up, but what if they got Book, we got Butler and our 3 picks, and the Heat got the filler contracts (Brooks, Adams, and one young prospect).

Obviously that is very far fetched and not going to happen, but I did have that thought a few days ago. We kind of still get to compete, and get our picks.

I'd rather just not get Butler at all. I think he's cooked and giving him a 115m at his age is one of the stupider things I've ever heard.....

That said, if we have to have this deal, then getting our picks back and him for Booker is about the best we can hope for. If we're bringing him on. Which again, I don't wanna do.

[Fo-Real]

Mentioning again, Nurk and D'Lo's salaries can be traded for eachother, I hope that dont come back to burn us
Also, if you are gonna not be able to resign Jones, maybe you trade him in a deal for a center/big man.

[BobbieL]

I'm thinking Ish is like Proscrove (sp) the former Nets owner who forced the Paul Pierce/KG trade and led to the Celts getting Tatum and Brown. Completely ruining their future, then seeing as how it sucks to have a losing team with no picks and no cap room...he bailed. Sold the team. Ish seems like that kinda dude. Which I'm sure sounds good to some him selling, but it would mean that we would have another 6 yrs or so of crap and also us having the worst record and giving another team a franchise player.

Long story short, we ALL need to be against this Jimmy B thing.

Him and his brother are trying to buy the Twins. Maybe if that goes through they will try to bail. But no, I don't think so. I think he will drive us into the ground and trade our 31 for whatever he can, extend those guys 2 years and then in 2 years he can trade our 33 pick unprotected for one last push after we've missed the playoffs for a few years...he will really try to get back. And maybe finally, at the trade deadline in 2028 when KD's extension is about to expire, he will try to trade 39 year old KD and realize he can't get that much.

Then in the summer of 2028, he will attempt to give Book another supermax when he is an UFA, and Book will leave us and we will get nothing in return.

All of the above!! All of this. The smart thing to do would be to trade Booker, Durant, Jones and anybody else, get those picks back from Houston - at least two of them (25 and 29) and go from there.

But he will probably overpay in some stupid trade and use Dunn and the 2031

Suns need to go on a losing streak