The Official 2025 Offseason Thread Part 1

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

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Big swing with the 10 pick? I don't think KD has as much value as some think, but surely more than the 10th pick in a not great draft after the top few picks. Kind of a dropoff after the 1st and then again after the 2nd.

As much as I don't want to keep KD, if the goal is really to try and get into the playoffs, keeping KD might be our best bet. I can't imagine better than a first round exit since we would likely match up against a top team, but if that's their goal, keep KD, and if they are falling short, make deals at the deadline. Teams might be more desperate then and maybe if we are like 12th or 13th and are dealing KD, Book will be open to a trade too. Houston will probably want Book but I imagine a team like Memphis might too.

Ja is hurt a lot and I know some are not a fan, but maybe him and a bunch of picks, since Book can play pg and they also have Scotty Pippen Jr to play it.

Booker for Ja kinda rhymes with Kidd for Marbury, doesn't it?

Put Brandon Clarke in the deal. Now we're cooking with oil.

The issue with pairing Ja and KD is kind of the same issue we have now with KD and Book... there's still no talent in the front court, limited depth, energy and talent down the roster. But hey. We gotta take some kind of chance, don't we?

[sunsbum]

If we get the 10th pick from a Houston trade I'm turning right around and offering Brooklyn the 10th for the 19th and their 26 pick. Brooklyn does it for Giannis ammunition we do it because, well we have no picks for the next 100 years. Also right now I really like some of these guys at the bottom of the draft and having 3 picks will give us the ability to maneuver if need be. Early sunsbum scouting results are in and I am loving Yaxel Lendeborg game. I think the only knock against him is hey played against some weaker schools but holy heck he can do a lot of stuff at the 4 on both sides of the ball.

[Puff]

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Big swing with the 10 pick? I don't think KD has as much value as some think, but surely more than the 10th pick in a not great draft after the top few picks. Kind of a dropoff after the 1st and then again after the 2nd.

As much as I don't want to keep KD, if the goal is really to try and get into the playoffs, keeping KD might be our best bet. I can't imagine better than a first round exit since we would likely match up against a top team, but if that's their goal, keep KD, and if they are falling short, make deals at the deadline. Teams might be more desperate then and maybe if we are like 12th or 13th and are dealing KD, Book will be open to a trade too. Houston will probably want Book but I imagine a team like Memphis might too.

Ja is hurt a lot and I know some are not a fan, but maybe him and a bunch of picks, since Book can play pg and they also have Scotty Pippen Jr to play it.

This is the most logical of approaches unless we receive an offer from a team this summer that we cannot turn down for KD. If one surfaces that will bring us young players and good draft picks I am all for trading anyone, including Booker. I just do not think that is in play this summer. Let's assume that we get nothing, but garbage offers.

1. Get a new coach that is excited to be here and brings new life to our franchise.
2. Make good use of our draft picks that we do have.
3. Try to get a trade for Beal that does not put us into a worse position. If we cannot trade him ride out the last two years of his contract.
4. Try to get free agents that fit what the new coach wants to do. There are a slew of guys that will be available and there must be a few of them that could help, choose wisely.

The biggest questions are what to do with the KD and Book extensions. Should we extend them this summer? By extending them does that make them a better or worse asset?

5. If we still are not in the playoff hunt at the deadline after hiring a legit head coach and adding a couple of legit players to this roster via the draft or trade, I say blow it up at the deadline, not this summer.

If KD only will go to a team that offers garbage in return, let him expire next summer and use his salary to bring in legit free agents of our choice.

This has been Ishbia's plan all along. He believed after making the moves for KD and Beal while giving up our future draft capital that we could retool via free agency when KD and Beal's contracts expire. I think he obviously thought we would be a competitive team after both of the trades for KD and Beal but we aren't. In my opinion he will make one last swing at trying to justify those trades.

[BobbieL]

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Big swing with the 10 pick? I don't think KD has as much value as some think, but surely more than the 10th pick in a not great draft after the top few picks. Kind of a dropoff after the 1st and then again after the 2nd.

As much as I don't want to keep KD, if the goal is really to try and get into the playoffs, keeping KD might be our best bet. I can't imagine better than a first round exit since we would likely match up against a top team, but if that's their goal, keep KD, and if they are falling short, make deals at the deadline. Teams might be more desperate then and maybe if we are like 12th or 13th and are dealing KD, Book will be open to a trade too. Houston will probably want Book but I imagine a team like Memphis might too.

Ja is hurt a lot and I know some are not a fan, but maybe him and a bunch of picks, since Book can play pg and they also have Scotty Pippen Jr to play it.

This is the most logical of approaches unless we receive an offer from a team this summer that we cannot turn down for KD. If one surfaces that will bring us young players and good draft picks I am all for trading anyone, including Booker. I just do not think that is in play this summer. Let's assume that we get nothing, but garbage offers.

1. Get a new coach that is excited to be here and brings new life to our franchise.
2. Make good use of our draft picks that we do have.
3. Try to get a trade for Beal that does not put us into a worse position. If we cannot trade him ride out the last two years of his contract.
4. Try to get free agents that fit what the new coach wants to do. There are a slew of guys that will be available and there must be a few of them that could help, choose wisely.

The biggest questions are what to do with the KD and Book extensions. Should we extend them this summer? By extending them does that make them a better or worse asset?

5. If we still are not in the playoff hunt at the deadline after hiring a legit head coach and adding a couple of legit players to this roster via the draft or trade, I say blow it up at the deadline, not this summer.

If KD only will go to a team that offers garbage in return, let him expire next summer and use his salary to bring in legit free agents of our choice.

This has been Ishbia's plan all along. He believed after making the moves for KD and Beal while giving up our future draft capital that we could retool via free agency when KD and Beal's contracts expire. I think he obviously thought we would be a competitive team after both of the trades for KD and Beal but we aren't. In my opinion he will make one last swing at trying to justify those trades.

If the Suns still have Beal around, even letting KD expire next summer will not get the team under the cap. Hence, why I think this should be a two year time line to get the cap straightened out. So taking garbage for KD -- that might be better than nothing. The problem is trying to compare to the price they paid for him as opposed to the price they SHOULD have paid for him.

Beal - I don't see a trade that doesn't create a negative value. Meaning the players coming back won't be good &/or the draft pick to give up for said lousy players isn't worth it

Suns just need to take their damn medicine... enough with the foolhardy trying to buy a title nonsense.

[Djedefre]

It is possible to buy a title, but you have to be smart and strategic about it, not just throw money around at random players. Miami bought multiple chips but they knew exactly what they were doing - complementary players in their prime with stellar availability, clear roles from day 1 and competent supporting cast. I strongly prefer building through the draft, it's just million times sweeter to win it all like that, but a good and capable executive could 'buy' a championship, no doubt about that.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Because maybe some people here are actually subscribers, and might be so inclined as to share the details of the article with everyone here. But if it's such a big deal for you man, I can at least provide you with this for now:

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Now I know that it's not the full range of 37 crazy trades that he's mentioned. But I sincerely hope this will suffice for now.

In order

1. Rockets x Hornets
2. Rockets x Nets
3. Mavs x Kings x Wolves































999999999999999999999999999999999999: Sixers

I still have zero idea why Stephen would approve the PG13 trade even if you get the third pick. That contract is terrible. Only if the Sixers took Beal.

I do agree with the rest of the order. Hornets might want a player next to Ball -so Green makes sense

The idea around taking back George and his horrible contract would be predominantly around the value of getting back the 3rd overall pick more than anything else.

This is because that 3rd pick would obviously offer a premium asset that we currently don't have as a result of frivolously giving away all of our assets already. Now while I'm definitely NOT a fan of George or his current contract, getting that #3 pick could/ would give us a number of options that we otherwise wouldn't have available to us! Here are just a couple options we could get from doing this:

1- We could keep the pick. And draft a young, athletic franchise cornerstone core player that is not only cost controlled, but could grow alongside of Booker, etc.

2- We could attach that high lotto pick to Beal's contract to incentivize a team to take him back IN A TRADE DOWN SCENARIO that would give us other picks in this draft. For example, we could trade down with any of these teams:

- Houston.
Trade Beal/ 3rd pick to Houston for J Green/ J Smith Jr/ Landale/ Whitmore/ PHX 25' 1st/ PHX 27' 1st/ PHX 29' 1st. ( giving Houston a top 3 pick for Giannis trade or a top 3 prospect after not moving up in the lottery.

- Orlando.
Beal/ 3rd pick for Isaac/ KCP/ Bidatze/ Harris (expiring)/ 16th, 25th, and 46th picks. - Brooklyn. Beal/ 3rd pick for C Johnson/ 19th, 26th and 27th picks. Or maybe for Clowney/ Whitehead/ 19th, 26th, 27th picks and a BRK top (10 protected) 1st? (Brooklyn would then have two top 10 lotto picks to add to their huge cache of picks AND a large soon to be expiring contract to trade in a Giannis deal!

- Chicago.
Beal/ Richards/ 3rd pick for Ball/ Vucevic/ P Williams contract/ 12th pick OR for the above package and the 12th pick and the POR 26' 1st??? ( Chicago is trying to compete and make the playoffs. But could also pivot with a top 3 pick and add another young star to their core with a top 3 lotto pick)!

- Brooklyn.
Beal/ 3rd pick for Cam Johnson/ 19th, 26th and 27th picks. Or maybe just for cap space, Clowney/ Whitehead and the 19th, 26th, 27th picks and a BRK 26' 1st ( Top 10 protected)??
This would give Brooklyn a large salary filler, and two top 10 lotto picks to pit towards a Giannis trade.

- Miami.
Beal/ Richards/ 3rd pick for Rozier/ Robinson/ WARE/ 25' pick swap (20th pick via GS) for our 29th pick ( via CLE)/ MIA 26' unprotected 1st. Now Miami would have two top 10 lotto picks and a large soon to he expiring salary to package in a Giannis trade! And being that Beal is soon to be a massive
57 million expiring contract for 27, Miami could still be players in 27 free agency if they decided to not trade for Giannis and instead kept the two premium lotto talents!

- Utah. 
Beal for Markannen/ 21st pick ( via MIN)/ 43rd pick ( via DAL)/ PHX 31' unprotected 1st ( back to us).  OR Beal/ 3rd pick for Collins/ Sexton/ 21st pick/ UTA 27' 1st ( Top 10 protected)/ PHX 31' 1st (back). 
( Utah is desperate to move up into the top 3 of the draft after missing out in the lottery! And moving Markannen for Beal allows them to bottom out faster and also getting two top 10 lotto picks in this draft while Beal helps their veiled tank too).

3- Or we could use that premium value lotto pick to help engineer a Giannis trade as a 3 team - 4 team deal either a 3 team helping the Bucks to convince Giannis to stay?
- New Orleans/ Milwaukee / Phoenix:

Pels get- Lillard/ George/ 3rd pick. This gives the Pels two top 8 lotto picks and they can tank for next season too with Lillard out? But ince he returns, maybe they discuss a potential Lillard/ McCollum/ George trio? (Plus two top 8 blue chip lottery prospects as well)??

Milwaukee gets- Zion/ Beal/ Allen/ their 1st swaps in 26 and 27 back. Giannis stays with another Alpha option in the frontcourt and a star combo guard in Beal in the backcourt getting to give them a competitive big three next season in a wide open eastern conference.

Phoenix gets- Murray/ Kuzma/ Olynyk ($13 million expiring)/ Jackson Jr/ Tyler Smith Jr/ DET 25' 2nd/ 47th pick/ IND 26' 1st (Top 4 protected)/ UTA 26' 2nd/ MIL 31' 1st.
We dump both George and Beal, while screwing the Spurs and pretty much any other teams front getting Giannis. But also get a true defensive point guard to put next to Booker, and a versatile scorer in the frontcourt. We also get expiring money to add to our cap situation, get some young athletic players in Andre Jackson Jr and Tyler Smith Jr (a budget version of Jabari Smith Jr), and a 25 2nd, 26 1st, 26' 2nd and a premium MIL 31' 1st.

OR we could facilitate a 4 team Giannis trade to get young assets and our picks back!
NEW ORLEANS/ MILWAUKEE/ HOUSTON/ PHOENIX:

New Orleans gets-
Lillard/ George/ filler/ 3rd pick.

Milwaukee gets-
Zion/ Murray/ Allen/ MIL 26' and 27' pick swaps back/ HOU 28' 1st/ HOU 31' 1st.

Houston gets-
Giannis.

Phoenix gets-
D Brooks/ Jabari Smith Jr/ Sheppard/ Whitmore/ A Jackson Jr/Tyler Smith jr /PHX 25' 1st/ PHX 27' 1st/ PHX 29' 1st/ 47th pick (via DET)/ MIL 31' 1st.
** I'm packaging Sheppard/ O'neale to Washington for Smart/ CHI 26' 2nd/ WAS 26' 2nd.

[King4Day]

Anyone thinking we can get 1 from the Mavs, 2 from the Spurs, or 3 from Philly isn't thinking straight.

Dallas won't trade that pick for anyone.
If Kyrie was healthy, then MAYBE they do it for Giannis. But Nico has a mulligan and would get even more threats if he trades it for a win-now player.

Spurs can get KD for much less than the #2.
14 and Vassel
or
14 and 2 future firsts along with fillers

If Philly came close this year and flamed out, maybe. KD does nothing to improve their title odds

[BobbieL]

It is possible to buy a title, but you have to be smart and strategic about it, not just throw money around at random players. Miami bought multiple chips but they knew exactly what they were doing - complementary players in their prime with stellar availability, clear roles from day 1 and competent supporting cast. I strongly prefer building through the draft, it's just million times sweeter to win it all like that, but a good and capable executive could 'buy' a championship, no doubt about that.

This is very true. But you have to do it correctly and the more I see of Booker and Durant - they are not complementary players. But I think they could have made it work but Beal just was a terrible fit

So since keeping Booker - go back to the "model" that worked the best with Booker.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Anyone thinking we can get 1 from the Mavs, 2 from the Spurs, or 3 from Philly isn't thinking straight.

Dallas won't trade that pick for anyone.
If Kyrie was healthy, then MAYBE they do it for Giannis. But Nico has a mulligan and would get even more threats if he trades it for a win-now player.

Spurs can get KD for much less than the #2.
14 and Vassel
or
14 and 2 future firsts along with fillers

If Philly came close this year and flamed out, maybe. KD does nothing to improve their title odds

I think that the 3rd pick from Philly might be possible if it results in them not only getting off of Georges' albatross contract, but also replaces him with someone like KD that can be an elite spacing compliment for Embiid (if healthy) ???? And Maxey and McCain too.

Also an important consideration here is that since Philly kept their pick in this draft, their 26' 1st would now go to OKC (Only top 4 protected). And they're obviously not likely to get lucky enough to land in the top 4 again next year. So it'd benefit them.much more to try and become as competitive as possible to limit the value of that 26' 1st they'll give up to OKC.

Plus getting off of George's longer albatross contract would allow them to make big free agency moves in 26 free agency (Mikal Bridges is an unrestricted free agent then and is from Philly)

[Ghost of Kleine]

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[BobbieL]

Anyone thinking we can get 1 from the Mavs, 2 from the Spurs, or 3 from Philly isn't thinking straight.

Dallas won't trade that pick for anyone.
If Kyrie was healthy, then MAYBE they do it for Giannis. But Nico has a mulligan and would get even more threats if he trades it for a win-now player.

Spurs can get KD for much less than the #2.
14 and Vassel
or
14 and 2 future firsts along with fillers

If Philly came close this year and flamed out, maybe. KD does nothing to improve their title odds

I think that the 3rd pick from Philly might be possible if it results in them not only getting off of Georges' albatross contract, but also replaces him with someone like KD that can be an elite spacing compliment for Embiid (if healthy) ???? And Maxey and McCain too.

Also an important consideration here is that since Philly kept their pick in this draft, their 26' 1st would now go to OKC (Only top 4 protected). And they're obviously not likely to get lucky enough to land in the top 4 again next year. So it'd benefit them.much more to try and become as competitive as possible to limit the value of that 26' 1st they'll give up to OKC.

Plus getting off of George's longer albatross contract would allow them to make big free agency moves in 26 free agency (Mikal Bridges is an unrestricted free agent then and is from Philly)

I hate anything to do with getting Paul George for Durant if all the Suns get is the 3rd pick

the ONLY way I do a trade for George is if its Beal for PG13 and the 3rd pick --- even that, I am not sure George is worth it - -

time to be more than about creating a buzz

[Slim Charless]

Anyone thinking we can get 1 from the Mavs, 2 from the Spurs, or 3 from Philly isn't thinking straight.

Dallas won't trade that pick for anyone.
If Kyrie was healthy, then MAYBE they do it for Giannis. But Nico has a mulligan and would get even more threats if he trades it for a win-now player.

Spurs can get KD for much less than the #2.
14 and Vassel
or
14 and 2 future firsts along with fillers

If Philly came close this year and flamed out, maybe. KD does nothing to improve their title odds

I think that the 3rd pick from Philly might be possible if it results in them not only getting off of Georges' albatross contract, but also replaces him with someone like KD that can be an elite spacing compliment for Embiid (if healthy) ???? And Maxey and McCain too.

Also an important consideration here is that since Philly kept their pick in this draft, their 26' 1st would now go to OKC (Only top 4 protected). And they're obviously not likely to get lucky enough to land in the top 4 again next year. So it'd benefit them.much more to try and become as competitive as possible to limit the value of that 26' 1st they'll give up to OKC.

Plus getting off of George's longer albatross contract would allow them to make big free agency moves in 26 free agency (Mikal Bridges is an unrestricted free agent then and is from Philly)

I hate anything to do with getting Paul George for Durant if all the Suns get is the 3rd pick

the ONLY way I do a trade for George is if its Beal for PG13 and the 3rd pick --- even that, I am not sure George is worth it - -

time to be more than about creating a buzz

That's not happening. In fact, I'm unsure why the Sixers would give that pick up for any reason. Unless they're getting a guaranteed ceiling raiser.

They should pick the best guy and rebuild around him, Maxey and McCain. That's what I would do.

Maybe they do Podcast P for Beal and a future pick or McCain if they wanna win. Or they can see if the Lakers are dumb enough to roll the dice on Biid I guess.

[BobbieL]

I think that the 3rd pick from Philly might be possible if it results in them not only getting off of Georges' albatross contract, but also replaces him with someone like KD that can be an elite spacing compliment for Embiid (if healthy) ???? And Maxey and McCain too.

Also an important consideration here is that since Philly kept their pick in this draft, their 26' 1st would now go to OKC (Only top 4 protected). And they're obviously not likely to get lucky enough to land in the top 4 again next year. So it'd benefit them.much more to try and become as competitive as possible to limit the value of that 26' 1st they'll give up to OKC.

Plus getting off of George's longer albatross contract would allow them to make big free agency moves in 26 free agency (Mikal Bridges is an unrestricted free agent then and is from Philly)

I hate anything to do with getting Paul George for Durant if all the Suns get is the 3rd pick

the ONLY way I do a trade for George is if its Beal for PG13 and the 3rd pick --- even that, I am not sure George is worth it - -

time to be more than about creating a buzz

That's not happening. In fact, I'm unsure why the Sixers would give that pick up for any reason. Unless they're getting a guaranteed ceiling raiser.

They should pick the best guy and rebuild around him, Maxey and McCain. That's what I would do.

Maybe they do Podcast P for Beal and a future pick or McCain if they wanna win. Or they can see if the Lakers are dumb enough to roll the dice on Biid I guess.

No, I don't think they would give up PG13 and the 3rd pick to dump PG13 for Beals almost equally terrible contract

The Suns need to stay away from George. Even for the 3rd pick -- his contract is terrible too

The Suns have to face reality with Beal - he is a negative asset and I used to think it would be best to just become a big expiring in two years but if he accepts the 30-35m buyout and they stretch him -- if they are a young enough team - they should overcome that 20m

[SunsRback4Good]

They not like us

[bwgood77]

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Big swing with the 10 pick? I don't think KD has as much value as some think, but surely more than the 10th pick in a not great draft after the top few picks. Kind of a dropoff after the 1st and then again after the 2nd.

As much as I don't want to keep KD, if the goal is really to try and get into the playoffs, keeping KD might be our best bet. I can't imagine better than a first round exit since we would likely match up against a top team, but if that's their goal, keep KD, and if they are falling short, make deals at the deadline. Teams might be more desperate then and maybe if we are like 12th or 13th and are dealing KD, Book will be open to a trade too. Houston will probably want Book but I imagine a team like Memphis might too.

Ja is hurt a lot and I know some are not a fan, but maybe him and a bunch of picks, since Book can play pg and they also have Scotty Pippen Jr to play it.

This is the most logical of approaches unless we receive an offer from a team this summer that we cannot turn down for KD. If one surfaces that will bring us young players and good draft picks I am all for trading anyone, including Booker. I just do not think that is in play this summer. Let's assume that we get nothing, but garbage offers.

1. Get a new coach that is excited to be here and brings new life to our franchise.
2. Make good use of our draft picks that we do have.
3. Try to get a trade for Beal that does not put us into a worse position. If we cannot trade him ride out the last two years of his contract.
4. Try to get free agents that fit what the new coach wants to do. There are a slew of guys that will be available and there must be a few of them that could help, choose wisely.

The biggest questions are what to do with the KD and Book extensions. Should we extend them this summer? By extending them does that make them a better or worse asset?

5. If we still are not in the playoff hunt at the deadline after hiring a legit head coach and adding a couple of legit players to this roster via the draft or trade, I say blow it up at the deadline, not this summer.

If KD only will go to a team that offers garbage in return, let him expire next summer and use his salary to bring in legit free agents of our choice.

This has been Ishbia's plan all along. He believed after making the moves for KD and Beal while giving up our future draft capital that we could retool via free agency when KD and Beal's contracts expire. I think he obviously thought we would be a competitive team after both of the trades for KD and Beal but we aren't. In my opinion he will make one last swing at trying to justify those trades.

If we extend them that will increase their value. The longer it is until they can become a free agent, the more likely teams will give up more for them. Also, KD and Book lose leverage in demanding where they go, because they couldn't threaten to leave in a year or whenever their contract is up...it would be longer off.

[bwgood77]

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Big swing with the 10 pick? I don't think KD has as much value as some think, but surely more than the 10th pick in a not great draft after the top few picks. Kind of a dropoff after the 1st and then again after the 2nd.

As much as I don't want to keep KD, if the goal is really to try and get into the playoffs, keeping KD might be our best bet. I can't imagine better than a first round exit since we would likely match up against a top team, but if that's their goal, keep KD, and if they are falling short, make deals at the deadline. Teams might be more desperate then and maybe if we are like 12th or 13th and are dealing KD, Book will be open to a trade too. Houston will probably want Book but I imagine a team like Memphis might too.

Ja is hurt a lot and I know some are not a fan, but maybe him and a bunch of picks, since Book can play pg and they also have Scotty Pippen Jr to play it.

Booker for Ja kinda rhymes with Kidd for Marbury, doesn't it?

Put Brandon Clarke in the deal. Now we're cooking with oil.

The issue with pairing Ja and KD is kind of the same issue we have now with KD and Book... there's still no talent in the front court, limited depth, energy and talent down the roster. But hey. We gotta take some kind of chance, don't we?

Yeah maybe. I think of Ja more as the only piece Memphis would give up where it is a big contract. I thought you were super high on Ja and at one point it seems like you mentioned him as possibly becoming one of, if not the best players in the NBA.

Anyway, he is super talented. He just doesn't stay healthy. I think he's a lot bigger difference maker and a lot more dynamic than Book.

But I would still want like 4 picks with him and another pretty good player.

I'm just thinking of teams with talent that could really use a go to scorer. JJJ has become an awesome go to guy, so maybe they could focus on more defense. They are still young with JJJ young, Bane, especially Edey, and then guys like Scotty Pippen Jr, Jaylen Wells was a great pick.

[lilfishi22]

In order

1. Rockets x Hornets
2. Rockets x Nets
3. Mavs x Kings x Wolves































999999999999999999999999999999999999: Sixers

I still have zero idea why Stephen would approve the PG13 trade even if you get the third pick. That contract is terrible. Only if the Sixers took Beal.

I do agree with the rest of the order. Hornets might want a player next to Ball -so Green makes sense

The idea around taking back George and his horrible contract would be predominantly around the value of getting back the 3rd overall pick more than anything else.

This is because that 3rd pick would obviously offer a premium asset that we currently don't have as a result of frivolously giving away all of our assets already. Now while I'm definitely NOT a fan of George or his current contract, getting that #3 pick could/ would give us a number of options that we otherwise wouldn't have available to us! Here are just a couple options we could get from doing this:

1- We could keep the pick. And draft a young, athletic franchise cornerstone core player that is not only cost controlled, but could grow alongside of Booker, etc.

2- We could attach that high lotto pick to Beal's contract to incentivize a team to take him back IN A TRADE DOWN SCENARIO that would give us other picks in this draft. For example, we could trade down with any of these teams:

- Houston.
Trade Beal/ 3rd pick to Houston for J Green/ J Smith Jr/ Landale/ Whitmore/ PHX 25' 1st/ PHX 27' 1st/ PHX 29' 1st. ( giving Houston a top 3 pick for Giannis trade or a top 3 prospect after not moving up in the lottery.

- Orlando.
Beal/ 3rd pick for Isaac/ KCP/ Bidatze/ Harris (expiring)/ 16th, 25th, and 46th picks. - Brooklyn. Beal/ 3rd pick for C Johnson/ 19th, 26th and 27th picks. Or maybe for Clowney/ Whitehead/ 19th, 26th, 27th picks and a BRK top (10 protected) 1st? (Brooklyn would then have two top 10 lotto picks to add to their huge cache of picks AND a large soon to be expiring contract to trade in a Giannis deal!

- Chicago.
Beal/ Richards/ 3rd pick for Ball/ Vucevic/ P Williams contract/ 12th pick OR for the above package and the 12th pick and the POR 26' 1st??? ( Chicago is trying to compete and make the playoffs. But could also pivot with a top 3 pick and add another young star to their core with a top 3 lotto pick)!

- Brooklyn.
Beal/ 3rd pick for Cam Johnson/ 19th, 26th and 27th picks. Or maybe just for cap space, Clowney/ Whitehead and the 19th, 26th, 27th picks and a BRK 26' 1st ( Top 10 protected)??
This would give Brooklyn a large salary filler, and two top 10 lotto picks to pit towards a Giannis trade.

- Miami.
Beal/ Richards/ 3rd pick for Rozier/ Robinson/ WARE/ 25' pick swap (20th pick via GS) for our 29th pick ( via CLE)/ MIA 26' unprotected 1st. Now Miami would have two top 10 lotto picks and a large soon to he expiring salary to package in a Giannis trade! And being that Beal is soon to be a massive
57 million expiring contract for 27, Miami could still be players in 27 free agency if they decided to not trade for Giannis and instead kept the two premium lotto talents!

- Utah. 
Beal for Markannen/ 21st pick ( via MIN)/ 43rd pick ( via DAL)/ PHX 31' unprotected 1st ( back to us).  OR Beal/ 3rd pick for Collins/ Sexton/ 21st pick/ UTA 27' 1st ( Top 10 protected)/ PHX 31' 1st (back). 
( Utah is desperate to move up into the top 3 of the draft after missing out in the lottery! And moving Markannen for Beal allows them to bottom out faster and also getting two top 10 lotto picks in this draft while Beal helps their veiled tank too).

3- Or we could use that premium value lotto pick to help engineer a Giannis trade as a 3 team - 4 team deal either a 3 team helping the Bucks to convince Giannis to stay?
- New Orleans/ Milwaukee / Phoenix:

Pels get- Lillard/ George/ 3rd pick. This gives the Pels two top 8 lotto picks and they can tank for next season too with Lillard out? But ince he returns, maybe they discuss a potential Lillard/ McCollum/ George trio? (Plus two top 8 blue chip lottery prospects as well)??

Milwaukee gets- Zion/ Beal/ Allen/ their 1st swaps in 26 and 27 back. Giannis stays with another Alpha option in the frontcourt and a star combo guard in Beal in the backcourt getting to give them a competitive big three next season in a wide open eastern conference.

Phoenix gets- Murray/ Kuzma/ Olynyk ($13 million expiring)/ Jackson Jr/ Tyler Smith Jr/ DET 25' 2nd/ 47th pick/ IND 26' 1st (Top 4 protected)/ UTA 26' 2nd/ MIL 31' 1st.
We dump both George and Beal, while screwing the Spurs and pretty much any other teams front getting Giannis. But also get a true defensive point guard to put next to Booker, and a versatile scorer in the frontcourt. We also get expiring money to add to our cap situation, get some young athletic players in Andre Jackson Jr and Tyler Smith Jr (a budget version of Jabari Smith Jr), and a 25 2nd, 26 1st, 26' 2nd and a premium MIL 31' 1st.

OR we could facilitate a 4 team Giannis trade to get young assets and our picks back!
NEW ORLEANS/ MILWAUKEE/ HOUSTON/ PHOENIX:

New Orleans gets-
Lillard/ George/ filler/ 3rd pick.

Milwaukee gets-
Zion/ Murray/ Allen/ MIL 26' and 27' pick swaps back/ HOU 28' 1st/ HOU 31' 1st.

Houston gets-
Giannis.

Phoenix gets-
D Brooks/ Jabari Smith Jr/ Sheppard/ Whitmore/ A Jackson Jr/Tyler Smith jr /PHX 25' 1st/ PHX 27' 1st/ PHX 29' 1st/ 47th pick (via DET)/ MIL 31' 1st.
** I'm packaging Sheppard/ O'neale to Washington for Smart/ CHI 26' 2nd/ WAS 26' 2nd.

Attaching Beal to the #3 pick will significantly destroy the value of that pick. The Houston deal for example makes next to no sense because you're suggesting Houston will give you basically the KD haul PLUS 3 likely pretty good unprotected picks for a single #3 pick but they also have to take on one of the worst contracts in the league.

[Ghost of Kleine]

I still have zero idea why Stephen would approve the PG13 trade even if you get the third pick. That contract is terrible. Only if the Sixers took Beal.

I do agree with the rest of the order. Hornets might want a player next to Ball -so Green makes sense

The idea around taking back George and his horrible contract would be predominantly around the value of getting back the 3rd overall pick more than anything else.

This is because that 3rd pick would obviously offer a premium asset that we currently don't have as a result of frivolously giving away all of our assets already. Now while I'm definitely NOT a fan of George or his current contract, getting that #3 pick could/ would give us a number of options that we otherwise wouldn't have available to us! Here are just a couple options we could get from doing this:

1- We could keep the pick. And draft a young, athletic franchise cornerstone core player that is not only cost controlled, but could grow alongside of Booker, etc.

2- We could attach that high lotto pick to Beal's contract to incentivize a team to take him back IN A TRADE DOWN SCENARIO that would give us other picks in this draft. For example, we could trade down with any of these teams:

- Houston.
Trade Beal/ 3rd pick to Houston for J Green/ J Smith Jr/ Landale/ Whitmore/ PHX 25' 1st/ PHX 27' 1st/ PHX 29' 1st. ( giving Houston a top 3 pick for Giannis trade or a top 3 prospect after not moving up in the lottery.

- Orlando.
Beal/ 3rd pick for Isaac/ KCP/ Bidatze/ Harris (expiring)/ 16th, 25th, and 46th picks. - Brooklyn. Beal/ 3rd pick for C Johnson/ 19th, 26th and 27th picks. Or maybe for Clowney/ Whitehead/ 19th, 26th, 27th picks and a BRK top (10 protected) 1st? (Brooklyn would then have two top 10 lotto picks to add to their huge cache of picks AND a large soon to be expiring contract to trade in a Giannis deal!

- Chicago.
Beal/ Richards/ 3rd pick for Ball/ Vucevic/ P Williams contract/ 12th pick OR for the above package and the 12th pick and the POR 26' 1st??? ( Chicago is trying to compete and make the playoffs. But could also pivot with a top 3 pick and add another young star to their core with a top 3 lotto pick)!

- Brooklyn.
Beal/ 3rd pick for Cam Johnson/ 19th, 26th and 27th picks. Or maybe just for cap space, Clowney/ Whitehead and the 19th, 26th, 27th picks and a BRK 26' 1st ( Top 10 protected)??
This would give Brooklyn a large salary filler, and two top 10 lotto picks to pit towards a Giannis trade.

- Miami.
Beal/ Richards/ 3rd pick for Rozier/ Robinson/ WARE/ 25' pick swap (20th pick via GS) for our 29th pick ( via CLE)/ MIA 26' unprotected 1st. Now Miami would have two top 10 lotto picks and a large soon to he expiring salary to package in a Giannis trade! And being that Beal is soon to be a massive
57 million expiring contract for 27, Miami could still be players in 27 free agency if they decided to not trade for Giannis and instead kept the two premium lotto talents!

- Utah. 
Beal for Markannen/ 21st pick ( via MIN)/ 43rd pick ( via DAL)/ PHX 31' unprotected 1st ( back to us).  OR Beal/ 3rd pick for Collins/ Sexton/ 21st pick/ UTA 27' 1st ( Top 10 protected)/ PHX 31' 1st (back). 
( Utah is desperate to move up into the top 3 of the draft after missing out in the lottery! And moving Markannen for Beal allows them to bottom out faster and also getting two top 10 lotto picks in this draft while Beal helps their veiled tank too).

3- Or we could use that premium value lotto pick to help engineer a Giannis trade as a 3 team - 4 team deal either a 3 team helping the Bucks to convince Giannis to stay?
- New Orleans/ Milwaukee / Phoenix:

Pels get- Lillard/ George/ 3rd pick. This gives the Pels two top 8 lotto picks and they can tank for next season too with Lillard out? But ince he returns, maybe they discuss a potential Lillard/ McCollum/ George trio? (Plus two top 8 blue chip lottery prospects as well)??

Milwaukee gets- Zion/ Beal/ Allen/ their 1st swaps in 26 and 27 back. Giannis stays with another Alpha option in the frontcourt and a star combo guard in Beal in the backcourt getting to give them a competitive big three next season in a wide open eastern conference.

Phoenix gets- Murray/ Kuzma/ Olynyk ($13 million expiring)/ Jackson Jr/ Tyler Smith Jr/ DET 25' 2nd/ 47th pick/ IND 26' 1st (Top 4 protected)/ UTA 26' 2nd/ MIL 31' 1st.
We dump both George and Beal, while screwing the Spurs and pretty much any other teams front getting Giannis. But also get a true defensive point guard to put next to Booker, and a versatile scorer in the frontcourt. We also get expiring money to add to our cap situation, get some young athletic players in Andre Jackson Jr and Tyler Smith Jr (a budget version of Jabari Smith Jr), and a 25 2nd, 26 1st, 26' 2nd and a premium MIL 31' 1st.

OR we could facilitate a 4 team Giannis trade to get young assets and our picks back!
NEW ORLEANS/ MILWAUKEE/ HOUSTON/ PHOENIX:

New Orleans gets-
Lillard/ George/ filler/ 3rd pick.

Milwaukee gets-
Zion/ Murray/ Allen/ MIL 26' and 27' pick swaps back/ HOU 28' 1st/ HOU 31' 1st.

Houston gets-
Giannis.

Phoenix gets-
D Brooks/ Jabari Smith Jr/ Sheppard/ Whitmore/ A Jackson Jr/Tyler Smith jr /PHX 25' 1st/ PHX 27' 1st/ PHX 29' 1st/ 47th pick (via DET)/ MIL 31' 1st.
** I'm packaging Sheppard/ O'neale to Washington for Smart/ CHI 26' 2nd/ WAS 26' 2nd.

Attaching Beal to the #3 pick will significantly destroy the value of that pick. The Houston deal for example makes next to no sense because you're suggesting Houston will give you basically the KD haul PLUS 3 likely pretty good unprotected picks for a single #3 pick but they also have to take on one of the worst contracts in the league.

Houston desperately needs scoring/ shooting, and obviously Beal can still do that and get it done efficiently too! He'd be solid in the backcourt for Houston alongside of Van Vleet man. Also, The Rockets have been super jaded about not moving up in the draft because they want to be one of the teams in play for Giannis in a potential trade.

Which pick do you think offers more value in that respect as a trade asset? The 3rd overall pick or the 10th in a top heavy draft, Especially if they're unwilling to include Thompson or Sengun? And the 3rd pick is a known commodity, whereas the 10th pick is obviously much lesser value and the Phoenix 27 and 29 1sts are unknown commodities with no guarantee of even returning lottery value depending upon what the suns do.

Lastly, Beal only looks bad because of the very poor fit on our team, and after next season, he'd be a massive expiring contract that could set up any team to be major players in 27 free agency. Equitably too, is that consideration towards using that contract if they trade for Giannis to completely restructure their roster around whatever Giannis would prefer in a very loaded free agency!

It's a matter of the Bucks preferring a top 3 pick or a late lotto pick and two other unknown future firsts (from Phoenix) bidding against the other texas team in San Antonio with a top 2 pick and other picks and young players to offer in comparison. And getting Beal also allows them to trade J Green in a Giannis trade or elsewhere for other players and/ or picks to include in a trade to Milwaukee for Giannis to escalate their value bid.

[Ghost of Kleine]

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[lilfishi22]

The idea around taking back George and his horrible contract would be predominantly around the value of getting back the 3rd overall pick more than anything else.

This is because that 3rd pick would obviously offer a premium asset that we currently don't have as a result of frivolously giving away all of our assets already. Now while I'm definitely NOT a fan of George or his current contract, getting that #3 pick could/ would give us a number of options that we otherwise wouldn't have available to us! Here are just a couple options we could get from doing this:

1- We could keep the pick. And draft a young, athletic franchise cornerstone core player that is not only cost controlled, but could grow alongside of Booker, etc.

2- We could attach that high lotto pick to Beal's contract to incentivize a team to take him back IN A TRADE DOWN SCENARIO that would give us other picks in this draft. For example, we could trade down with any of these teams:

- Houston.
Trade Beal/ 3rd pick to Houston for J Green/ J Smith Jr/ Landale/ Whitmore/ PHX 25' 1st/ PHX 27' 1st/ PHX 29' 1st. ( giving Houston a top 3 pick for Giannis trade or a top 3 prospect after not moving up in the lottery.

- Orlando.
Beal/ 3rd pick for Isaac/ KCP/ Bidatze/ Harris (expiring)/ 16th, 25th, and 46th picks. - Brooklyn. Beal/ 3rd pick for C Johnson/ 19th, 26th and 27th picks. Or maybe for Clowney/ Whitehead/ 19th, 26th, 27th picks and a BRK top (10 protected) 1st? (Brooklyn would then have two top 10 lotto picks to add to their huge cache of picks AND a large soon to be expiring contract to trade in a Giannis deal!

- Chicago.
Beal/ Richards/ 3rd pick for Ball/ Vucevic/ P Williams contract/ 12th pick OR for the above package and the 12th pick and the POR 26' 1st??? ( Chicago is trying to compete and make the playoffs. But could also pivot with a top 3 pick and add another young star to their core with a top 3 lotto pick)!

- Brooklyn.
Beal/ 3rd pick for Cam Johnson/ 19th, 26th and 27th picks. Or maybe just for cap space, Clowney/ Whitehead and the 19th, 26th, 27th picks and a BRK 26' 1st ( Top 10 protected)??
This would give Brooklyn a large salary filler, and two top 10 lotto picks to pit towards a Giannis trade.

- Miami.
Beal/ Richards/ 3rd pick for Rozier/ Robinson/ WARE/ 25' pick swap (20th pick via GS) for our 29th pick ( via CLE)/ MIA 26' unprotected 1st. Now Miami would have two top 10 lotto picks and a large soon to he expiring salary to package in a Giannis trade! And being that Beal is soon to be a massive
57 million expiring contract for 27, Miami could still be players in 27 free agency if they decided to not trade for Giannis and instead kept the two premium lotto talents!

- Utah. 
Beal for Markannen/ 21st pick ( via MIN)/ 43rd pick ( via DAL)/ PHX 31' unprotected 1st ( back to us).  OR Beal/ 3rd pick for Collins/ Sexton/ 21st pick/ UTA 27' 1st ( Top 10 protected)/ PHX 31' 1st (back). 
( Utah is desperate to move up into the top 3 of the draft after missing out in the lottery! And moving Markannen for Beal allows them to bottom out faster and also getting two top 10 lotto picks in this draft while Beal helps their veiled tank too).

3- Or we could use that premium value lotto pick to help engineer a Giannis trade as a 3 team - 4 team deal either a 3 team helping the Bucks to convince Giannis to stay?
- New Orleans/ Milwaukee / Phoenix:

Pels get- Lillard/ George/ 3rd pick. This gives the Pels two top 8 lotto picks and they can tank for next season too with Lillard out? But ince he returns, maybe they discuss a potential Lillard/ McCollum/ George trio? (Plus two top 8 blue chip lottery prospects as well)??

Milwaukee gets- Zion/ Beal/ Allen/ their 1st swaps in 26 and 27 back. Giannis stays with another Alpha option in the frontcourt and a star combo guard in Beal in the backcourt getting to give them a competitive big three next season in a wide open eastern conference.

Phoenix gets- Murray/ Kuzma/ Olynyk ($13 million expiring)/ Jackson Jr/ Tyler Smith Jr/ DET 25' 2nd/ 47th pick/ IND 26' 1st (Top 4 protected)/ UTA 26' 2nd/ MIL 31' 1st.
We dump both George and Beal, while screwing the Spurs and pretty much any other teams front getting Giannis. But also get a true defensive point guard to put next to Booker, and a versatile scorer in the frontcourt. We also get expiring money to add to our cap situation, get some young athletic players in Andre Jackson Jr and Tyler Smith Jr (a budget version of Jabari Smith Jr), and a 25 2nd, 26 1st, 26' 2nd and a premium MIL 31' 1st.

OR we could facilitate a 4 team Giannis trade to get young assets and our picks back!
NEW ORLEANS/ MILWAUKEE/ HOUSTON/ PHOENIX:

New Orleans gets-
Lillard/ George/ filler/ 3rd pick.

Milwaukee gets-
Zion/ Murray/ Allen/ MIL 26' and 27' pick swaps back/ HOU 28' 1st/ HOU 31' 1st.

Houston gets-
Giannis.

Phoenix gets-
D Brooks/ Jabari Smith Jr/ Sheppard/ Whitmore/ A Jackson Jr/Tyler Smith jr /PHX 25' 1st/ PHX 27' 1st/ PHX 29' 1st/ 47th pick (via DET)/ MIL 31' 1st.
** I'm packaging Sheppard/ O'neale to Washington for Smart/ CHI 26' 2nd/ WAS 26' 2nd.

Attaching Beal to the #3 pick will significantly destroy the value of that pick. The Houston deal for example makes next to no sense because you're suggesting Houston will give you basically the KD haul PLUS 3 likely pretty good unprotected picks for a single #3 pick but they also have to take on one of the worst contracts in the league.

Houston desperately needs scoring/ shooting, and obviously Beal can still do that and get it done efficiently too! He'd be solid in the backcourt for Houston alongside of Van Vleet man. Also, The Rockets have been super jaded about not moving up in the draft because they want to be one of the teams in play for Giannis in a potential trade.

Which pick do you think offers more value in that respect as a trade asset? The 3rd overall pick or the 10th in a top heavy draft, Especially if they're unwilling to include Thompson or Sengun? And the 3rd pick is a known commodity, whereas the 10th pick is obviously much lesser value and the Phoenix 27 and 29 1sts are unknown commodities with no guarantee of even returning lottery value depending upon what the suns do.

Lastly, Beal only looks bad because of the very poor fit on our team, and after next season, he'd be a massive expiring contract that could set up any team to be major players in 27 free agency. Equitably too, is that consideration towards using that contract if they trade for Giannis to completely restructure their roster around whatever Giannis would prefer in a very loaded free agency!

It's a matter of the Bucks preferring a top 3 pick or a late lotto pick and two other unknown future firsts (from Phoenix) bidding against the other texas team in San Antonio with a top 2 pick and other picks and young players to offer in comparison. And getting Beal also allows them to trade J Green in a Giannis trade or elsewhere for other players and/ or picks to include in a trade to Milwaukee for Giannis to escalate their value bid.

Not disagreeing Houston needs scoring and I think Beal probably does get the job done but they could get that with an even better scorer (e.g KD) and for less than the package they give up. For example, I think the #3 pick is worth maybe 2-3 likely lotto picks in the future but if we are generous and say #3 = #10 plus 2 future unprotected Suns picks + a young player then you're left with Beal for J Green/ Landale/ Whitmore. Beal is quite literally a negative value contract so I don't know how you could reconcile Beal for J Green/ Landale/ Whitmore