Official Trade Thread: Kind of a Drag...ic

[jredsaz]

LAL fans so bitter

Pho while getting out of IT contract will now have to pay up to keep Knight, again they'll be nearly capped out and still as medicore as ever.....a win win I must say for me as Pho is one of the more hated fan base to me.

There's even more in their thread talking about us giving their pick to Philly

viewtopic.php?f=19&t=1373599#start_here

haha bitter coming from the guy who wanted us to remove our protection and Randle for Dragic , its the truth, between bled/knight ext. you'll be between 25-30mill between two undersized combo guard, add in the rest of the your guaranteed contracts and you're looking in the 50mill range before your picks. 7-12mill isn't enough to sign a game changer, thus medicore but to be fair to you, the west medicore is better the east bottom 4 that's in the playoff.

I think your math is off. The cap will be about $66.5 million - most likely higher. Suns cap number with Brandon Knight cap hold and the pick (12-14 range) will be about $51 million.

Thats +/-$15.5 million which will be very close to a max contract for any player with less than 6 years of service (Monroe, Harris, Butler). If we move Tucker we will be close to max for players with 7-9 years of service (Gasol, Jordan, Millsap).

Whether or not those players mentioned above are likely to leave their respective teams or look at Phoenix is irrelevant. The point is we are now in a position to pursue them financially.

[jredsaz]

They both can't be undersized if they are both playing together. Clearly one is playing PG and being 6'2/6'3 isn't undersized for a PG. If you are talking about 50mil range of salary for the summer, I'm pretty sure that's after we would sign/extend Knight right? I'm sure the Suns gameplan is to go after a top tier free agent before giving Knight his money as he's a restricted free agent, that way they can maximize their salary issues.

yes and a fair point I guess it'll work out then if that were the case since I don't see anybody offering Knight a big contract from the start of FA till all the other FA Pg's are signed.

That's what I think the Suns front office game plan is. However, any team could screw that up by offering Knight a contract early in free agency forcing the Suns to match. Who knows what will happen.

There is the time period between when negotiations can start and the date when contracts can be signed. Suns just got to get Monroe in a room and make him agree! Then Knight can go get what he can get and we will match it at that point.

[jredsaz]

Damn this is scary when you think about it.

GS got really, really lucky with Curry's extension. He had a lot of trouble with those ankles so he signed a bit below market value at that deadline. Thompson is making $3M more than him a year and you know who the better player is... that pair makes $27M together next year. I imagine Knight signs for about $12 or $13M/yr next year so we'll be paying something similar and neither is an all-star. Kind of a bummer but better than paying $40M for the trio of Bled-Dragic-IT in my opinion.

Yea but even if you forget GSW, I don't think we even have a top 4 backcourt in the West.

GSW, POR, LAC, OKC and actually even Houston all have better backcourts imo. (Of course for OKC and Houston, it's basically one man backcourts but still). You can maybe even make the case that Memphis has a stronger backcourt.

Right now, we're probably in the same tier as New Orleans and Dallas in terms of backcourt imo.

Not sure I totally agree but its a moot point. How good will this back court be in 2 years compared to the rest of the West? Got to include Archie as well.

[Frank Lee]

Frank has been a critic even when we had prime Nash, the dude has always been grumpy.

the dude abides

[Calvin Klein]

funnily enough, I seem to remember Frank defending Sarver quite a bit the last few years. But maybe it was somebody else...

[bwgood77]

I really hope that after this offseason there will be a ton of crow eating. It kinda hurts saying this because that means the Lakers have to hit a home run after during the FA period. And i think that's where a lot of this garbage in the board is coming from. Because now, we have two options.

a.) hope the Lakers strike out and get nothing during the offseason. true fans cannot root for the Lakers. but this would PROVE that the Knight trade was terrible
b.) hope the Lakers insta-rebuild and become contenders. true fans canot root for the Lakers. this would negate trading their pick to Philly, and turns the Knight trade into Plumlee/Thomas/Ennis into Knight, which is defend-able.

either way its a lose lose, and nobody here wants a lose lose. We all wanted the Lakers to suck for at least two years, and now we have to turn into semi-Lakers fans in order to justify losing their pick. that hurts.

The Knight trade has essentially turned suns fans against eachother....those who want to root against the Lakers (which would prove the Knight trade sucked) and those who have to root for the Lakers (which would negate trading their pick).

and this post will most likely not be read. IBFTL

I won't root for the Lakers ever. Even if they get the 4th pick next year, they could pick an Anthony Bennett or Thomas Robinson. I mean there are top 5 busts all the time. Waiters was a 4th pick. Tristan Thompson was a 4th pick. Who was that Minnesota guard they picked who is out of the league?

And if they REALLY SUCK next year, which I think they will, they could easily end up as worst three and win the lottery and the pick will still be protected. Then they could cash in on the 2016 free agent class, maybe two or three guys with Kobe off the books and have some starts to add to Randle, their top 5 pick this year (likely a stud), and their top 3 pick next year.

This pick easily could end up being the 12th pick in the 2017 draft.

[bwgood77]

If the last 30 years are a guide:

74% of NBA teams will not win a championship over the next 30 years.

Those 26% got lucky. Chicago Bulls don't win any of their 6 without 1 human being out of 6 billion going to pick 3 when Chicago has pick 3.

It probably means 99% of trades and comings and goings don't matter, you just need to strike the jackpot by landing a top 30 player of all-time.

The rest to me, is guys just doing their jobs the best they can (FO and players).

Also, it's been stated multiple times that if OKC had the #1 pick in the 2007 draft, they would have taken Oden, and if they had the #2 pick in the 2008 draft, they would have taken Beasley. Their is a HUGE amount of luck to all this.

[bwgood77]

RealGM's worst trade deadline team with an outstanding 65% of the votes is...

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1374074#start_here

Hah. And if the Lakers land a semi-decent FA, draft a top 5 player and get Randle playing, suddenly they're not a bottom 5 team.

Then Dragic leaves, or gets maxed (pick your poison) and that 2021 unprotected pick turns into a top 5 pick (Bosh is off the books in 2019 so it'll have to be a quick reboot otherwise)

Then Brandon Knight re-signs for $15M/yr, the Suns lock up their backcourt for less than $30M/yr amid the cap rise, BK improves to be a borderline All-Star in the West.

All of the above isn't far-fetched if you look into a crystal ball. And if it happens, the Suns suddenly go from losing the deadline to winning it.

But for the time being we've 'lost' the deadline.

I don't know why you think two rookies (Randle would pretty much be a rookie) and a semi decent free agent would make them not a bottom five team. Who would they be better than in the west? Minny will be WAY better next year. I could see maybe Philly in the east, but I'm not sure who else. NY will be better with Melo back, probably a free agent signing and a top 5 pick.

[bwgood77]

If the last 30 years are a guide:

74% of NBA teams will not win a championship over the next 30 years.

Those 26% got lucky. Chicago Bulls don't win any of their 6 without 1 human being out of 6 billion going to pick 3 when Chicago has pick 3.

It probably means 99% of trades and comings and goings don't matter, you just need to strike the jackpot by landing a top 30 player of all-time.

The rest to me, is guys just doing their jobs the best they can (FO and players).

The Suns weren't going to make the playoffs with the team they had, i didn't even honestly care if they did or not. I realize this was year two in a rebuilding process and i was content to be patient, overall i still am. The Suns still likely wont make the playoffs with this new version of the team, I am also ok with that. I am not particularly upset they traded Dragic or Thomas or even what they got for them, The Milwaukee trade is what got my ire up and it's not just for what we traded away or what we got, although that's a big part of it. My main complaint is this. Before the trade dead Line our guru GM took a bold step and admitted the construction fo the team was wrong, even specifically stated how it was constructed wrong and blamed himself for it. It gave hope that they would then address it. Then Dragic came out with his comments, if they are accurate or not, none of us know, we weren't in any of those meetings, he was obviously unhappy though, be it due to the fact he wanted to be the man, felt betrayed, felt they were asking him to play out of position and made promises as he stated or just felt they were ruining his earning power, all of those are possibilities and it could be a combination of more than one and again we will never know and it's all he said she said and speculations from all of our perspectives, regardless what you chose to believe. it's the front office's response to that that bothers me the most though.

They trade both Thomas and Dragic, so be it, they couldn't risk Dragic leaving and getting nothing, and Thomas may have been a cancer on the team, so fine I will live with that. But then to go all in on Brandon Knight, this in my opinion was as others have already said to remain in the picture,save face, look like they had a plan, sell tickets, etc. We don't know if he will be on the team next year or if he fits this team now, time will tell, but again what we gave for him was a extreme overpay in my opinion and we would have been better to just keep what we had and rolled the dice with them.. but that's just opinion and i could be proven wrong on that over time.. however that press conference is where my main gripe comes in, Instead of taking the high road and just stating something along the lines of "We disagree and deny making any promises we broke, and while we loved Dragic and the contributions he made to our team and we would have liked to bring him back as we have been saying publicly for two years, he decided he would rather pursue his career elsewhere and we decided in light of that we would respect that wish and make moves to further our ultimate goal" or sometime like that, if they had taken that path, i think it would have been viewed with respect and professionalism, instead they reacted liek a bunch of overly sensitive butt hurt high school kids trying to get in the last word, which to me makes them look unprofessional and petty and i can't believe players don't see it like that as well, they just saw the favorite sun and this management's darling for the last several years thrown under the bus after promoting him as the face of the franchise for the last 3-4 years.. that doesn't do anythig nbut harm and makes them look foolish and like maybe what Dragic was claiming had some credence, it was flat out embarrassing and pathetic in my opinion.


and none of this did anything to balance the roster or correct their self admitted mistake which was the origional stated goal, if anything we got smaller and now have less rebounding and interior defense

Great post. I don't mind the Brandon Knight part as much as you do, because I think he can and will be a solid player moving forward, but the parts before and after that I DEFINITELY agree.

[thelead]

As a magic fan, I really didn't have much interest in what was going on with the Dragic deal but can someone tell me why you gave up that Lakers' pick, IT and Dragic and only ended up with Brandon Knight? Or am I not getting the whole trade? What the hell happened here lol?

[bwgood77]

As a magic fan, I really didn't have much interest in what was going on with the Dragic deal but can someone tell me why you gave up that Lakers' pick, IT and Dragic and only ended up with Brandon Knight? Or am I not getting the whole trade? What the hell happened here lol?

You are not getting the trades. There were three trades.

1. Dragic for 2 future firsts from Miami. One of them is top 7 protected and one is unprotected. We took back some salaries but will cut those guys (except maybe Granger).

2. IT to Boston for a 2016 first and Marcus Thornton.

Many fans think we should have stopped there, after adding three picks and unclogging our backcourt but then...

3. Plumlee, Tyler Ennis and the Lakers pick for Brandon Knight.

I think the Suns like Knight as a 2 guard and they like two ball handlers as well. But also, with a RFA, they can afford to sign a max player in the offseason, and then re-sign Knight to go over the cap.

As for trade 3, we really only would have had Bledsoe as a pg with a rookie backing him up without it, and Plumlee wanted to be traded and people wanted him gone, so other than the pick, we didn't give up much for Knight.

[thelead]

As a magic fan, I really didn't have much interest in what was going on with the Dragic deal but can someone tell me why you gave up that Lakers' pick, IT and Dragic and only ended up with Brandon Knight? Or am I not getting the whole trade? What the hell happened here lol?

You are not getting the trades. There were three trades.

1. Dragic for 2 future firsts from Miami. One of them is top 7 protected and one is unprotected. We took back some salaries but will cut those guys (except maybe Granger).

2. IT to Boston for a 2016 first and Marcus Thornton.

Many fans think we should have stopped there, after adding three picks and unclogging our backcourt but then...

3. Plumlee, Tyler Ennis and the Lakers pick for Brandon Knight.

I think the Suns like Knight as a 2 guard and they like two ball handlers as well. But also, with a RFA, they can afford to sign a max player in the offseason, and then re-sign Knight to go over the cap.

As for trade 3, we really only would have had Bledsoe as a pg with a rookie backing him up without it, and Plumlee wanted to be traded and people wanted him gone, so other than the pick, we didn't give up much for Knight.

Gotcha, thanks for the breakdown. Too much going on last minute at the deadline for me to keep up.

Yeah, I definitely like trade 1 and 2 for you. Not sure about trade 3. It's definitely a gamble but probably a smart one. Not sure the Lakers fall out of the top 5 at this point and they are probably going to reload this summer so... I guess trade 3 isn't terrible. You would think that you could get better for that package though, considering you're going to have to pay Knight.

[bwgood77]

If Knight gets a contract this summer, the Suns are committing to the most expensive backcourt in the West - a backcourt not comprised of an all-star. A backcourt comprised of two tweener point guards that the history of the league tells us would be a questionable fit. Yikes. At best, it's gambling on youth and potential and hoping it works out. At worst, it's being downright arrogant and reckless and could set the franchise back for years.

Damn this is scary when you think about it.

GS got really, really lucky with Curry's extension. He had a lot of trouble with those ankles so he signed a bit below market value at that deadline. Thompson is making $3M more than him a year and you know who the better player is... that pair makes $27M together next year. I imagine Knight signs for about $12 or $13M/yr next year so we'll be paying something similar and neither is an all-star. Kind of a bummer but better than paying $40M for the trio of Bled-Dragic-IT in my opinion.

I think it's a little misleading in the grand scheme of things to say we will have the most expensive backcourt....even though it will be true. I know that sentence sounds ridiculous, but it is all timing. In 2-3 years, if we have those guys locked into, lets say a combined $27 million, I bet there will be a bunch of backcourts that are more expensive. Once the cap goes up, and these current deals run out (Teague, Curry, Lillard, Conley, etc etc, those backcourts will be VERY expensive). We will have like one or two years with one of the higher paid backcourts, then we will probably drop middle of the pack because when the cap goes up to $85 million or whatever, and then 90, etc, we will be paying two quality starters less than a third of the cap.

[lilfishi22]

As a magic fan, I really didn't have much interest in what was going on with the Dragic deal but can someone tell me why you gave up that Lakers' pick, IT and Dragic and only ended up with Brandon Knight? Or am I not getting the whole trade? What the hell happened here lol?

You are not getting the trades. There were three trades.

1. Dragic for 2 future firsts from Miami. One of them is top 7 protected and one is unprotected. We took back some salaries but will cut those guys (except maybe Granger).

2. IT to Boston for a 2016 first and Marcus Thornton.

Many fans think we should have stopped there, after adding three picks and unclogging our backcourt but then...

3. Plumlee, Tyler Ennis and the Lakers pick for Brandon Knight.

I think the Suns like Knight as a 2 guard and they like two ball handlers as well. But also, with a RFA, they can afford to sign a max player in the offseason, and then re-sign Knight to go over the cap.

As for trade 3, we really only would have had Bledsoe as a pg with a rookie backing him up without it, and Plumlee wanted to be traded and people wanted him gone, so other than the pick, we didn't give up much for Knight.

I actually missed the Boston pick coming back to us from the IT trade. What's the protection on it?

[bwgood77]

I actually missed the Boston pick coming back to us from the IT trade. What's the protection on it?

It is actually a Cleveland pick via Boston, so it won't likely be very good. Someone (maybe rsavaj) posted that there was protection on a pick (but I couldn't clarify if this was the one he was talking about or not from the post...it was kind of vague)...it was like protected 1-14 and 27-30 which was odd.

In any respect, I doubt the pick will be before the 20s, since it's Cleveland's next year.

[In Len We Trust]

1. Trade Hornacek + a 1st round pick for Tom Thibodeau
2. Hire Mike D'Antoni as the offensive assistant
3. Win 30 championships

[Revived]

I wish the Suns traded that Cavs pick + Marcus Morris to the Nuggets for Wilson Chandler. He'd have been a starting caliber veteran SF for the Suns and I think he could have regained his old form here in PHX. Tucker could play backup PF which is probably best position for him.

Bledsoe/Goodwin
Knight/Green/Thornton
Chandler/Warren/Bullock
Kieff/Tucker
Len/Wright

[lilfishi22]

I actually missed the Boston pick coming back to us from the IT trade. What's the protection on it?

It is actually a Cleveland pick via Boston, so it won't likely be very good. Someone (maybe rsavaj) posted that there was protection on a pick (but I couldn't clarify if this was the one he was talking about or not from the post...it was kind of vague)...it was like protected 1-14 and 27-30 which was odd.

In any respect, I doubt the pick will be before the 20s, since it's Cleveland's next year.

So basically it's a sht pick

[bwgood77]

I wish the Suns traded that Cavs pick + Marcus Morris to the Nuggets for Wilson Chandler. He'd have been a starting caliber veteran SF for the Suns and I think he could have regained his old form here in PHX. Tucker could play backup PF which is probably best position for him.

Bledsoe/Goodwin
Knight/Green/Thornton
Chandler/Warren/Bullock
Kieff/Tucker
Len/Wright

Honestly, at this point, I'd rather they just start Warren at the 3. If he struggles, put Tucker or Morris in. There is zero point in starting those guys. I mean, I guess many fans think there is still a shot we make the playoffs IF AD and KD stay injured, but getting into the playoffs because of injuries to probably the best two players in the league is kind of cheap anyway, and we'd just get murdered in the first round anyway.

[AZWildByNature]

I actually missed the Boston pick coming back to us from the IT trade. What's the protection on it?

It is actually a Cleveland pick via Boston, so it won't likely be very good. Someone (maybe rsavaj) posted that there was protection on a pick (but I couldn't clarify if this was the one he was talking about or not from the post...it was kind of vague)...it was like protected 1-14 and 27-30 which was odd.

In any respect, I doubt the pick will be before the 20s, since it's Cleveland's next year.

So basically it's a sht pick

vvvvvvv