2020 Offseason Speculation, free agency, summer trades (keep draft prospect talk in draft thread)

[Mattya]

I don’t think Booker will be asking for a trade from Minnesota during his career now. I’m pretty sure of it. If anything KAT and DLo get out of that god forsaken state ASAP

I'm confused, why exactly?

[Ghost of Kleine]

Kelly's a starter in this league, and starters don't come cheap. If we want to compete, we have to pay our players. I hope we can re-sign Kelly, but if we trade him, I hope we're willing to pay his replacement.

I just want to be able to resign him, But don't think that we'll have the money to. Also, IF we are going to end up losing him for nothing other than cap space, That'd be yet another huge kick in the balls! Yes we need a backup level point guard OR a quality 3 and D 4 from this draft. But as Jones said himself, We need playmaking, Defense and/or(shotblocking), and shooting ( ISO scoring). So I just can't understand why people are being so shortsighted about acquiring an additional pick or even one in the 2nd round. You have quality prospects throughout this draft with ELITE skills that would help our issues greatly, And would be on cost controlled contracts for around 2 million or less. For instance, Regarding the issues mentioned by Jones:

Playmaking-
You have all sorts of guards that fit the bill, even outside of the lottery. Prospects such as:
Kira Lewis/ Nico Mannion/ Theo Maledon/ Tre Jones/ Tyrell Terry/ Malachi Flynn/ Cassius Winston/ Grant Riller/ Payton Pritchard/ Ashton Hagans.

Defense/ shotblocking-
You have both wings and 4s' that can provide defense and rim protection. Prospects such as:
Devin Vassell/ Isaac Okoro/ Precious Achiuwa/ Tyler Bey/ Jalen Smith/ Paul Reed/Patrick Williams/ Jaden McDaniels/ Elijah Hughes/ Killian Tillie.

Shooting-
Prospects such as Aaron Nesmith/ Saddiq Bey/Immanuel Quickly/ Desmond Bane/ Elijah Hughes/ Killian Tillie/ Isiah Joe/ Cory Kispert/ Skylar Mays/ Marcus Howard.

So all of these prospects have Elite skills that can contribute to our positional issues and again would be minimal cost, So that we can somewhat preserve our cap space for the purpose of hopefully being able to resign Oubre AND still be able to extend Bridges and Ayton. It's just smart asset and cap management.

[Saberestar]

Read on Twitter

We will be there if they go with 22 teams.

[King4Day]

Read on Twitter

We will be there if they go with 22 teams.

We're gonna be champions!

Seriously though, this is exciting. I just wanna see the Suns play again this year. It would be good XP for our young guys.

[RedIndian]

Would be fun to see a play-in style tournament if we get in. Considering that we'll have a full roster back (including Oubre and Kaminsky), we'd actually be pretty competitive as well. Would be amazing if we could sneak into the playoffs.

[darmani]

We are gonna end LeBron's season 2 years in a row. Feels good man.

[Frank Lee]

Does playing out this year effect the beginning of next season? What about the length?

Will any fans be allowed in any games in the foreseeable future?

Will the trade/signing dates and draft be pushed back ?

I haven’t been reading up on any of this

[ATTL]

This counts as playoffs if the suns make it.

[starbosa10]

Does playing out this year effect the beginning of next season? What about the length?

Will any fans be allowed in any games in the foreseeable future?

Will the trade/signing dates and draft be pushed back ?

I haven’t been reading up on any of this

pretty sure everything is pushed back. This setup in Orlando won't have fans. In terms of fans attending next season I'm sure that determination will be made in the fall

[starbosa10]

Does playing out this year effect the beginning of next season? What about the length?

Will any fans be allowed in any games in the foreseeable future?

Will the trade/signing dates and draft be pushed back ?

I haven’t been reading up on any of this

pretty sure everything is pushed back. This setup in Orlando won't have fans. In terms of fans attending next season I'm sure that determination will be made in the fall

[jayu70]

https://arizonasports.com/story/2300948/suns-will-be-among-hardest-hit-by-nba-salary-cap-drop-hollinger-says/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

The Suns are definitely going to have to make some hard decisions it seems in regards to free agency and roster alterations/ improvements



So again, Kelly is great, And has definitely had a positive impact on our culture. But IF we believe that he will as mentioned likely command a payday increase outside of our range, Then we should absolutely explore trade options and seek to get a maximum value return for him whilst he's still under contract and his value is peaking!

I think it will be hard to get peak value though. the most popular deal seems to be Oubre for AG but I dont think AG really fits the team all that well.

You're not really wrong man on the value man. As other teams will become increasingly reluctant to give up equal to maximum value for a recently injured player without having a full season post injury to properly evaluate him before he becomes an unrestricted free agent in 2021, And unfortunately for us, The longer we hold him, The overall value ( contractually)that he'll return in a trade as a short term / rental decreases exponentially heading into 2021. Now to be fair, Trades that at this point and under the present circumstances that I'd wager are between maximum value to at least fair value would be:

Golden State-
Oubre/Diallo for the Golden State Warriors 17.2 million trade exception( Iggy) and their 2020 first Top 4 (pick swap)
(**Fair value).

Or Oubre/ Diallo for the Golden State Warriors 17.2 milliontrade exception ( Iggy) AND the Minnesota Timberwolves 2021 top 3 protected first ( ** Maximum value).

New York-
Oubre for Portis' 15 millionexpiring contract ( **Team option) declined/ the 27th pick/ And the Dallas unprotected 2021 first. *( Great value)

10- Draft one of Hayes/ Haliburton/ Anthony or Lewis.
27- Paul Reed or Reggie Perry.

Minnesota Timberwolves -
Oubre for James Johnson ( expires in 2021) 16th / 33rd picks ( fair value).

16- Draft Tyler Bey( Oubres' replacement) or Aaron Nesmith?
33- Paul Reed ( very impressive statistically and defensively versatile) or Elijah Hughes( 6'6, And almost identical to Oubre statistically and in terms of athleticism and energy/attitude).

Atlanta Hawks-
Oubre for Cam Reddish/ Kevin Huerter/ and a pick swap. So with this trade, we jump into the top 4. Now at 4, We draft Toppin.

*.

Hawks fan here:
1. Circling back on your previous John Collins topic for clarification. Hawks may not WANT to pay him the max he thinks he should be in the conversation for, but they aren't interested in trading him. To John's credit he noted you don't always get what you ask for. He's also worth more than just Oubre, he's a 20/10 guy on great efficiency. His defense needs work but he has already improved this year. Hawks also have wings in Huerter, Reddish and Hunter so definitely not interested in trading for another SF while giving up our only PF.
2. You are over valuing Oubre....he's at best worth a pick in the 15-20 range. Hawks pass easily. No interest in trading a top 5 pick for him to move down PLUS Huerter AND Reddish.

[bwgood77]

Random thought and post, I really think we already have our 3rd star in Oubre! He gets criticism here because people think he takes the ball out of Book and Aaytons hands too much but that I'm my opinion is just part of his star mentality. The dude is amazing, he shoots it, he gets to the rim, he boards, and at his size he defends 2 guards to power forwards and isnt a bad defender. This dude brings it hard every night, and his teammates absolutely love him. He came here and had a breakout season without a doubt. He works hard as hell on his game and seems to be just a good dude to boot. This board undervalues this man's game, there is a reason that teams are starting all of the sudden to try to pry him away, they want to steal him before we realize what we have. Kelly is one of the strong points of our team.

The problem isn't really in that we undervalue him I think. And clearly, He is/ has been great to our team and to our overall culture too. However, With his emergence to potential greatness fueled by his breakout season, Other teams have now taken notice! As with any team, it becomes a double edged sword, Wherein we benefit from his increased production. But then the overall cost to retain him now increases too. So the point is that whilst he may be great for our team, We very possibly may not even be able to afford him in 2021 anyways as he's an unrestricted free agent after all. And thusly he'll be looking for his first big contract like most young players just fresh off of a breakout campaign. It's also important to remember that he'll be coming off a recent serious injury and that will also be in the back of his mind in terms of getting the most money he can secure to afford him a modicum of financial security early on, As insurance towards any unforeseen future calamities. So IF any of the other 30+ teams out there ( who have been hoarding cap space for 2021) miss out on their primary star targets, They'll of course find Oubre in the next lowest tier. And as a result, he'll likely get overpaid by a good margin more than we could afford to match or beat. Lastly, The team's long term outlook has to be taken into consideration too. I mean, Exactly how much of our limited cap space is really reasonable to tie up in a recently injured Oubre, Knowing that we have immenent core extensions for both of Bridges and Ayton that must be addressed around 2021-2022 as well. Are we really willing to potentially lose or let walk one of Bridges or Ayton at that point just to gold onto Oubre???

All of these questions must be answered, But then again, We night already have been given a glimpse into the Suns front offices' plans for Oubre, In the fact that they already tried to move him for Gordon a few months back! I personally believe that they prefer Gordon due to his descending contract, Since that would provide much needed cap relief for us around the time that we have to extend Bridges and Ayton.


So again, it's not really about people undervaluing him, So much as it's the real possibility of us losing him for nothing, The longer that we just sit on his contract. Kind of similar to not utilizing Tyler Johnson's expiring contract when we had the chance, Or Greg Monroe, Emeka Okafor, etc. Along with quite a few other past players that we simply sat on, And eventually got nothing of value, other than some cap space back for. Our front "Orifice " has really done a pretty poor job of utilizing assets in the past unfortunately. So that's where the exploratory trade interest stems from primarily I'd have to believe.

He's not close to a star level player. He is just flash, and his positive attitude is good for the locker room.

He has below league average efficiency (TS% 56%, league avg 56.4%), below avg defender (though decent 1 on 1 on occasion and occasional steals), and doesn't pass. He also drives into multiple defenders far too often.

Compare to Mikal for example, who has a 62.3% TS%, is an elite defender, better passer, more steals and blocks per 36.

Overall, on paper, Oubre is a below average player. With the eye test, he is slightly above average due to his energy, but also you can see the bad iq plays driving or non aware on team D. Now given what we've seen on this team for 10 years, I know our bar is low, but he's far from a star. People were arguing on the General Board the other day that Marion wasn't a star, and Marion was 10x better than Oubre.

[bwgood77]

Here's a nice stat for the idiots who want to trade Oubre for picks and pieces:

Booker, Ayton, Bridges on court

with Oubre on court: 119.2 OffRtg, 104.4 DefRtg, +14.7 NetRtg
with Oubre off court: 112.7 OffRtg, 118.8 DefRtg, -6.2 NetRtg

You left out a big part of that.

Booker, Ayton, Bridges, Oubre, Rubio +18.6
Booker, Ayton, Bridges, Oubre, Okobo -10.9

Rubio is the primary difference maker (in large part due to the drop off in PG quality when he sits), but when all of Booker, Ayton, Bridges and Oubre are on the court, Rubio usually was too, because that became our best lineup.

You play with 5 players. Looking at 4 man units or fewer, never show nearly the full picture, especially in our case when you know the drop off in PG quality from one to another is massive.

I'm not advocating trading Oubre for picks and pieces though.

[Moochthemonkey]

inb4 NBA decides on making playoffs top 20 teams and Suns just miss out again

[darmani]

Here's a nice stat for the idiots who want to trade Oubre for picks and pieces:

Booker, Ayton, Bridges on court

with Oubre on court: 119.2 OffRtg, 104.4 DefRtg, +14.7 NetRtg
with Oubre off court: 112.7 OffRtg, 118.8 DefRtg, -6.2 NetRtg

You left out a big part of that.

Booker, Ayton, Bridges, Oubre, Rubio +18.6
Booker, Ayton, Bridges, Oubre, Okobo -10.9

Rubio is the primary difference maker (in large part due to the drop off in PG quality when he sits), but when all of Booker, Ayton, Bridges and Oubre are on the court, Rubio usually was too, because that became our best lineup.

You play with 5 players. Looking at 4 man units or fewer, never show nearly the full picture, especially in our case when you know the drop off in PG quality from one to another is massive.

I'm not advocating trading Oubre for picks and pieces though.

Rubio, Booker, Bridges, Ayton:
Oubre on court 121.6 OffRtg, 101.4 DefRtg, +20.2 NetRtg (226 minutes)
Oubre off court 117.2 OffRtg, 117.9 DefRtg, -0.7 NetRtg (156 minutes)

Oubre, Booker, Bridges, Ayton:
Rubio on court: 121.6 OffRtg, 101.4 DefRtg, +20.2 NetRtg (226 minutes)
Rubio off court: 109.6 OffRtg, 105.1 DefRtg, +4.5 NetRtg (87 minutes)

Even with our terrible backup guards, when Rubio was on the bench but Booker, Bridges, Oubre and Ayton were on the court the Suns still had a positive NetRtg.

[darmani]

He's not close to a star level player. He is just flash, and his positive attitude his good for the locker room.

He has below league average efficiency (TS% 56%, league avg 56.4%), below avg defender (though decent 1 on 1 on occasion and occasional steals), and doesn't pass. He also drives into multiple defenders far too often.

Compare to Mikal for example, who has a 62.3% TS%, is an elite defender, better passer, more steals and blocks per 36.

Overall, on paper, Oubre is a below average player. With the eye test, he is slightly above average due to his energy, but also you can see the bad iq plays driving or non aware on team D. Now given what we've seen on this team for 10 years, I know our bar is low, but he's far from a star. People were arguing on the General Board the other day that Marion wasn't a star, and Marion was 10x better than Oubre.

Please everyone, stop this constant comparing of Oubre and Bridges. Mikal doesn't bring to the table what Oubre does and vice versa. Most importantly, they fit together on the court very well and the Suns are very successful playing them at the same time.

Oubre is our version of Draymond Green. Not the most talented player on the roster, who has his clear limitations on the court and at times when he isn't paired with players better than him, he looks like a liability, but he enhances the performance of our best players. His confidence, swagger and hustle make Ayton and Booker play much harder. Oh and he's the most clutch player on our roster.

[Flying Colors]

as things get pushed back, causing the next season to be pushed back as well, I wonder if the NBA will keep the same dates going forward (i.e. the season starts in december forever now). Or if the NBA will slowly try to shift things back over the course of couple of seasons.

[starbosa10]

as things get pushed back, causing the next season to be pushed back as well, I wonder if the NBA will keep the same dates going forward (i.e. the season starts in december forever now). Or if the NBA will slowly try to shift things back over the course of couple of seasons.

I think they should keep the Dec start. Less overlap with the NFL/college football. Playoffs would go into the summer with only mls/mlb competing for ratings.

[Revived]

as things get pushed back, causing the next season to be pushed back as well, I wonder if the NBA will keep the same dates going forward (i.e. the season starts in december forever now). Or if the NBA will slowly try to shift things back over the course of couple of seasons.

I think they should keep the Dec start. Less overlap with the NFL/college football. Playoffs would go into the summer with only mls/mlb competing for ratings.

I’d be curious to know how many hardcore NBA fans follow MLB closely.

I’ve always felt NFL/NBA fans are sort of a duo where fans of one league tend to watch the other one closely as well and then MLB fans and NHL fans are focused only into those individual leagues.

[starbosa10]

as things get pushed back, causing the next season to be pushed back as well, I wonder if the NBA will keep the same dates going forward (i.e. the season starts in december forever now). Or if the NBA will slowly try to shift things back over the course of couple of seasons.

I think they should keep the Dec start. Less overlap with the NFL/college football. Playoffs would go into the summer with only mls/mlb competing for ratings.

I’d be curious to know how many hardcore NBA fans follow MLB closely.

I’ve always felt NFL/NBA fans are sort of a duo where fans of one league tend to watch the other one closely as well and then MLB fans and NHL fans are focused only into those individual leagues.

I'm sure there is some overlap, especially in places like NY, Boston, and Chicago. MLB is alot less popular for "neutral" fans I feel like. I only watch the some of MLB post season/World Series for example. NBA going into the summer would be great for the league but probably be terrible for MLB.