2022-23 Season Discussion and Speculation 3 - Trade season begins

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

The problem, is and has always been Monty. It has been mentioned a time or 2 all of his numerous faults but basically he was riding the coattails of 1 of the great PGs and leaders the league has ever seen. We got pantsd last season in the playoffs and his aura was shattered. Now, no healthy CP3 and look what happens?

None of this matters as his Montyness is on pace to give us a very good shot at getting Scoot/Wemby. Even Brandon Miller or Amen would be a great addition to this team.

I think Monty's a very good, well-rounded coach. But his whole thing is about consistency. He coaches this team to play the same way every night. He says the same stuff over and over. He's not an innovator. He's stoical.

If it's working, it will work. But if it's not working, it won't work.

Personally I think the Dallas series broke us. The guys came back to camp and saw that we were going to do the same damn thing that got our butts kicked when it mattered and talk the same talk that we'd been hearing the last three seasons. In the end, who is there to blame but the other guys in the locker room?

Windhorst's talk about new hires excites me, because you don't hire a bunch of new front office personnel unless you're planning to make big changes to your roster. Good. We need some turnover. Like the Jazz last year, the air's become stale. Time to get some fresh air in here.

'

I am so ready to be rid of the stench of Bobby Sarver

They need to do a culture cleansing so to speak - that doesn't mean Jones or even Monty are not good people - they are top shelf by all acounts. But its good to have some change

Granted - maybe just getting rid of SArver Garvin and anybody associated with sumbeetch is a good start. Move James up to Pres of B'ball Ops

The culture change that occurred the last couple years was great - Bobby put competent, steady, conservative, focused, smart people in charge. And it's made everything better. But it's reached it's limit. It's time for innovation, and smart people trying to outsmart other smart people, through diligence, state-of-the-art analysis, thoughtful tactics and clever strategy.

TBH, the change I'm hoping to see to the FO is the most exciting thing going on with this team right now.

[Slim Charless]

I think Monty's a very good, well-rounded coach. But his whole thing is about consistency. He coaches this team to play the same way every night. He says the same stuff over and over. He's not an innovator. He's stoical.

If it's working, it will work. But if it's not working, it won't work.

Personally I think the Dallas series broke us. The guys came back to camp and saw that we were going to do the same damn thing that got our butts kicked when it mattered and talk the same talk that we'd been hearing the last three seasons. In the end, who is there to blame but the other guys in the locker room?

Windhorst's talk about new hires excites me, because you don't hire a bunch of new front office personnel unless you're planning to make big changes to your roster. Good. We need some turnover. Like the Jazz last year, the air's become stale. Time to get some fresh air in here.

'

I am so ready to be rid of the stench of Bobby Sarver

They need to do a culture cleansing so to speak - that doesn't mean Jones or even Monty are not good people - they are top shelf by all acounts. But its good to have some change

Granted - maybe just getting rid of SArver Garvin and anybody associated with sumbeetch is a good start. Move James up to Pres of B'ball Ops

The culture change that occurred the last couple years was great - Bobby put competent, steady, conservative, focused, smart people in charge. And it's made everything better. But it's reached it's limit. It's time for innovation, and smart people trying to outsmart other smart people, through diligence, state-of-the-art analysis, thoughtful tactics and clever strategy.

TBH, the change I'm hoping to see to the FO is the most exciting thing going on with this team right now.

That's where I am. The Suns were a disaster for years and we needed a stable presence here to calm things, which is what Monty and to a certain extent JJ are. But now we need true high level coaches FO ppl in order to get us over to the next level. This is doublely so if we get a top pick this year.

[King4Day]

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[King4Day]

We'll see if a Crowder/Rui trade gets brought back up now. I didn't read the article but I'm guessing that would be our best offer. Jae and a 2nd maybe

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[BobbieL]

We'll see if a Crowder/Rui trade gets brought back up now. I didn't read the article but I'm guessing that would be our best offer. Jae and a 2nd maybe

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Taj and Rui for Crowder works cap wise

[bwgood77]

I still think the best course of action is to see if Melton is available from the Sixers. Trade Jae Crowder for him. See what it takes to get Kyle Kuzma from the Wizards and then go from there. If the Raptors are interested in Ayton, I'd only be interested in trading Ayton for either Anunoby or Siakam.

I looked into that and thought Melton played a lot as their backup guard. Then they have Tucker and Harris at forwards. What purpose do you think they'd want Crowder over Melton? Do they need tax relief? That seems like highway robbery for us unless they desperately need to get under the tax or something.

[bwgood77]

I would consider trading for DLo. It’s possible he may have his best years of basketball ahead of him (still just 26) and is a better bet to be good moving forward than FVV in my opinion. Obviously there’s the Booker buddy factor so he’d probably want to play here beyond this year. I wouldn’t give up anything of substantial value for him, maybe Cam Johnson or Chris Paul but certainly not Ayton or this years pick.

Did something say they were looking for a PG? I know people have mentioned Paul, but I am not sure I see that unless they are in super desperation mode for playoffs this year (and I know they are) but then again, I don't see us trading Chris Paul.

It also seems we didn't really like Russell before and that was when he was playing better and before he had a max (but I guess it was evident he was getting one).

[bwgood77]

We are 1.5 wins away from the 6th place in the West.

Every team losing a Top 10 player in the league will struggle, look at the Nets without KD.

We need Book to compete at the highest level. If he is back soon and ​get a solid position for the playoffs we can win it all.

I agree with you. But that's the big question. Book was supposed to be re-evaluated after 1 month....so maybe that means a grade 1 strain, which means he would likely be back late January or after the all star break. If it took 6 weeks or like Feb 10th would he come back for 3 games or wait until Feb 24th after the ASB.

He will likely need time for conditioning to get back into game shape.

But if it's grade 2 (or worse, grade 3), we are probably going to be somewhat hard pressed to make the playoffs, though I think even with one of our 2 PGs, Cam Johnson, Shamet and even a decent piece, like end of rotation role player (8th/9th man), we would be worlds better than we are right now...and could maybe hover around 500.

I think Cam Johnson is back within a week (just hope he stays healthy) and Payne who knows? Maybe about a week but supposed to be reeavaluated in about a week, so probably longer. Shamet and Paul probably sooner, but we know Paul only lasts a few games at a time at this point.

Edit - subsequent post I saw Cam comes back tomorrow! Pray he stays healthy the rest of season!

[bwgood77]

We have had many, many injuries this season but probably none worse than the loss of Cam Payne. Surely, he is not as talented as Booker or CP3. However, without those two we might be a lot better off with a healthy Cam Payne as our starter. The point is that we have do not have a legit replacement for Cam Payne. Payne has been injured last year as well as this year. Therefore it is not hard to imagine why we are interested in FVV or Rozier.

Cam Payne can be bought out for next year @2.0 Mil

Games played this year by our starting back court and 6th man (Cam Payne)
Cam Payne - 28/45
CP3 26/45
Book 29/45

potential replacements

Rozier 35 /44
FVV 36/45
-
All of these guys are around 28 years old with the exception of Cp3 - 37 and Book 26.

I doubt that either Rozier or FVV will be great upgrades. They are not that durable themselves. They certainly would be better than what we have had available for it seems like forever. I can also see us moving on from Cam Payne this summer, if not before. Something needs to be done either before the trade deadline or this summer.

What to do?

We need to keep Payne unless we find a serious upgrade, but even if we find a starter I'd keep him at his cost. Would be dumb to cut him..we would still be over the cap so it doesn't free up cap space. He's cheaper than what he provides. Our team is good when he starts with our normal starters.

[Ghost of Kleine]

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[bwgood77]

These are trade ideas on ESPN's trade deadline preview.

Milwaukee:

Trade we would like to see: Crowder to Milwaukee for Pat Connaughton and Jordan Nwora.

Chicago:

Trade we would like to see: Coby White to Phoenix for Cameron Payne and second-round picks in 2023 and 2025. If the Bulls really want to pivot, how about Zach LaVine to New York for a package of draft picks, young players and contracts? Unlikely but as we mentioned above, the Bulls have a decision to either stay the course or look for deals involving their core players.

Indiana:

Trade we would like to see: Dario Saric and cash considerations from Phoenix for a 2028 second-round pick (protected 31-35). The trade would save Phoenix $23 million toward the luxury tax and give the Pacers additional frontcourt depth.

New York:

Trade we would like to see: Cam Reddish, Svi Mykhailiuk, their own 2027 second to the Suns for Jae Crowder.

Houston:

Trade we would like to see: Kenyon Martin Jr. to Phoenix for a 2023 top-14-protected first. If not conveyed, Houston will receive 2023 and 2025 second-round picks from the Suns

San Antonio (and NY)

Trade we would like to see: A three-team trade with San Antonio, New York and Phoenix. The Spurs receive Dario Saric, Evan Fournier, a 2023 top-14-protected first (via Washington) and a 2024 top-14-protected first from Phoenix (will turn into a 2024 and 2025 second-round picks if not conveyed). Phoenix will receive Jakob Poeltl and Cam Reddish. New York will receive Jae Crowder and Josh Okogie.

https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/35441254/2023-nba-trade-deadline-western-conference-deal-predictions

I like Chicago but only for Crowder...gotta keep Payne. Coby White could be a nice value pick up...he's far better than Payne WAS when we got him...he is just way down on depth chart. I doubt they'd care to have Payne. I think they actually already had him and said he was the worst player they've seen or something.

NY...depends on other Crowder offers. Reddish has not been good but is very young and you never know...there is a chance he could flourish. Maybe not, but Crowder is sittting at home.

Houston for sure

SA is interesting. Poeltl but not sending out Ayton (though maybe he goes out differently). Poeltl is weird because he really took a while to get better and playing time. He also his HORRID at shooting free throws and has minimal range. He is more of a rim C and good rebounder.

Then Poeltl wants $20-$25 per year. So a protected lotto pick for that? We could lose the 15th pick where we could maybe get a solid PG or PF for much less money.

Bucks, again, depends on other offers. Might take that over NY since I know Pat can play, though the NY 2nd rounder gives us a shot in the dark on a prospect, which I do like, even if it's a late pick in the 40s...still a bit earlier than when we got Dragic. Also got Hornacek at pick 46.

[Ghost of Kleine]

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[bwgood77]

These are trade ideas on ESPN's trade deadline preview.

Milwaukee:

Trade we would like to see: Crowder to Milwaukee for Pat Connaughton and Jordan Nwora.

Chicago:

Trade we would like to see: Coby White to Phoenix for Cameron Payne and second-round picks in 2023 and 2025. If the Bulls really want to pivot, how about Zach LaVine to New York for a package of draft picks, young players and contracts? Unlikely but as we mentioned above, the Bulls have a decision to either stay the course or look for deals involving their core players.

Indiana:

Trade we would like to see: Dario Saric and cash considerations from Phoenix for a 2028 second-round pick (protected 31-35). The trade would save Phoenix $23 million toward the luxury tax and give the Pacers additional frontcourt depth.

New York:

Trade we would like to see: Cam Reddish, Svi Mykhailiuk, their own 2027 second to the Suns for Jae Crowder.

Houston:

Trade we would like to see: Kenyon Martin Jr. to Phoenix for a 2023 top-14-protected first. If not conveyed, Houston will receive 2023 and 2025 second-round picks from the Suns

San Antonio (and NY)

Trade we would like to see: A three-team trade with San Antonio, New York and Phoenix. The Spurs receive Dario Saric, Evan Fournier, a 2023 top-14-protected first (via Washington) and a 2024 top-14-protected first from Phoenix (will turn into a 2024 and 2025 second-round picks if not conveyed). Phoenix will receive Jakob Poeltl and Cam Reddish. New York will receive Jae Crowder and Josh Okogie.

https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/35441254/2023-nba-trade-deadline-western-conference-deal-predictions

Thanks for sharing these man!
It's really crazy to see some of the stuff the nba talking media promotes though.....lol!

In looking at these trades I've come to the conclusion that either ESPN really hates the suns still or simply shouldn't be making trades as they're really stupid and don't think at all about the outcomes or reasoning to validate the trades they're promoting here.

Not one of these trades are remotely reasonable or beneficial for the suns. The suns front office would have to be severely drunk self hating nihilists to entertain these postulations.

Those are decent realistic trades.

[bwgood77]

I would consider trading for DLo. It’s possible he may have his best years of basketball ahead of him (still just 26) and is a better bet to be good moving forward than FVV in my opinion. Obviously there’s the Booker buddy factor so he’d probably want to play here beyond this year. I wouldn’t give up anything of substantial value for him, maybe Cam Johnson or Chris Paul but certainly not Ayton or this years pick.

I've thought about that and think he's a possibility but why trade for him when we can sign him on the off season? He would be a decent addition right now with his scoring and passing. He's making a ton is the problem and it'd be hard to get matching money.

But could we even sign him with being as far over the tax line as we are currently? I ask because everyone keeps pointing that out to me in my trade ideas towards free agency impact when suggesting trading for expirings.

yes...you need to cut out all hope for getting a free agent..even if we cleared tons of salary it's still very unlikely we carve more than MLE money..but that would require people to take players on contracts we have going forward and us taking nothing or an expiring back. We don't have many of thos players.

If we trade for someone like DLo, we could keep because of bird rights...anyone we trade for who has been with his team for 3 years (or on the same contract 3 years) we could re-sign with bird rights, but how much would DLo want and what will our owner pay in tax?

[bwgood77]

I think if we trade for Rozier, it's gonna take Ayton. Definitely wouldn't want Paul I don't think unless they are getting MASSIVE cap relief because it's not like Paul is an expiring this yar. Even if he doesn't play, he is paid $15 million NEXT year, so he's like a pretty big expiring next year. If they wanted massive cap relief like Crowder, Saric, and that's it....then maybe it makes sense...they just get off his contract.

But they may want something of value back. Paul is obviously negative value whether you pay him $15 million not to play or $30 million to play (of course they wouldn't).

So they wouldn't want Paul but like Crowder/Saric and at least a pick..maybe a 1st and 2nd? Or Ayton. I think if it came down to it, we might do Ayton if we could get. He makes only like $8.5...expiring but could keep.

He is actually decent..his FG% skyrocketed to 65.7% this year and his #s are 11.4/9.8/3.7 so solid rebounder and passer, and nice efficiency..big improvent this year.

A below avg C maybe but only because there are so many great ones..definitely servicable.

Rozier/Plumlee for Ayton is probably better than the other deals above aside from the VanVleet one...maybe better. I still like the Utah one but Rozier/Plumlee is probably two starters...solid ones that added to Book/Bridges/Cam could be good.

We wouldn't be worldbeaters in the west and with the Ayton of the WC player of the week and playoffs we obviously have far more upside but many fans really care about regular season consistency and going balls to the wall every game and that doesn't seem to be him.

I do Ayton for Mcdaniels/Rozier without looking at the numbers. Gotta have some kind of young piece we can potentially secure for the future.

We'd need to at the very least also be getting back Mark Williams for center depth. And also at least the Denver 23' 1st and the Utah 2nd ( a 1st and a 2nd) for the overall value gap. Although upon reflection and in reading various reports, I really don't see them having interest in Ayton as they're already focused in on both Turner and Poetl via free agency at a lesser projected pricetag!

I still might look at Crowder for Richaun Holmes. I know he has not played much at all, but he was really good for about 2 years, like a top 30 fantasy player. He may just be buried.

[bwgood77]

Another thing that bothered me this week was Barkley's comment on Monday. When asked what was wrong with the Suns he said, they do not like each other. Wow. This was such a close knit group heading into the series against Dallas. What happened? That has been the $64 question that remains unanswered. There is a stink somewhere. I expect it is directly related to Crowder. What other reason would he just be told to stay home and away from the team?

It could be Ayton? - he just does not seem serious about his job
It could be Monty - Maybe he is not the connector I think he is
It could be CP3 - He is not known to be Mr friendly
It could be the whole ownership thing

What is it? Barkley convinced me that he knows what is wrong. He never mentioned all the injuries. He repeated that they do not like each other.

Barkley is making assumptions. They made other incorrect assumptions. I do think there may be something with Crowder. The team seems tight knit. There is a small possibility of animosity between Ayton and Bridges (which would be bad) because they are trying to carry the team and are getting frustrated and arguing some. But I think if that even is the case, that would pass when healthy. It shouldn't matter what CP3 thinks because he should be gone by the summer.

[BobbieL]

These are trade ideas on ESPN's trade deadline preview.

Milwaukee:

Chicago:

Indiana:

New York:

Houston:

San Antonio (and NY)

https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/35441254/2023-nba-trade-deadline-western-conference-deal-predictions

Thanks for sharing these man!
It's really crazy to see some of the stuff the nba talking media promotes though.....lol!

In looking at these trades I've come to the conclusion that either ESPN really hates the suns still or simply shouldn't be making trades as they're really stupid and don't think at all about the outcomes or reasoning to validate the trades they're promoting here.

Not one of these trades are remotely reasonable or beneficial for the suns. The suns front office would have to be severely drunk self hating nihilists to entertain these postulations.

Those are decent realistic trades.

I didn't hate the Bucks trade and thought Connaughton and Nwora would add value
if you make that type of tradeg - trading Saric for cap reasons - is easier to take
I wouldn't like trading Crowder in that type of deal as I think he has value

The Martin one to Houston - the pick being protected helps -- at his age, might be worth the non lottery pick'

Of all of those - i can see the Bucks and Pacers deals

[Ghost of Kleine]

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[Slim Charless]

Another thing that bothered me this week was Barkley's comment on Monday. When asked what was wrong with the Suns he said, they do not like each other. Wow. This was such a close knit group heading into the series against Dallas. What happened? That has been the $64 question that remains unanswered. There is a stink somewhere. I expect it is directly related to Crowder. What other reason would he just be told to stay home and away from the team?

It could be Ayton? - he just does not seem serious about his job
It could be Monty - Maybe he is not the connector I think he is
It could be CP3 - He is not known to be Mr friendly
It could be the whole ownership thing

What is it? Barkley convinced me that he knows what is wrong. He never mentioned all the injuries. He repeated that they do not like each other.

Barkley is making assumptions. They made other incorrect assumptions. I do think there may be something with Crowder. The team seems tight knit. There is a small possibility of animosity between Ayton and Bridges (which would be bad) because they are trying to carry the team and are getting frustrated and arguing some. But I think if that even is the case, that would pass when healthy. It shouldn't matter what CP3 thinks because he should be gone by the summer.

This is a massive leap in judgment. I see nothing that would lead to this.

[dremill24]

These are trade ideas on ESPN's trade deadline preview.

Milwaukee:

Trade we would like to see: Crowder to Milwaukee for Pat Connaughton and Jordan Nwora.

Chicago:

Trade we would like to see: Coby White to Phoenix for Cameron Payne and second-round picks in 2023 and 2025. If the Bulls really want to pivot, how about Zach LaVine to New York for a package of draft picks, young players and contracts? Unlikely but as we mentioned above, the Bulls have a decision to either stay the course or look for deals involving their core players.

Indiana:

Trade we would like to see: Dario Saric and cash considerations from Phoenix for a 2028 second-round pick (protected 31-35). The trade would save Phoenix $23 million toward the luxury tax and give the Pacers additional frontcourt depth.

New York:

Trade we would like to see: Cam Reddish, Svi Mykhailiuk, their own 2027 second to the Suns for Jae Crowder.

Houston:

Trade we would like to see: Kenyon Martin Jr. to Phoenix for a 2023 top-14-protected first. If not conveyed, Houston will receive 2023 and 2025 second-round picks from the Suns

San Antonio (and NY)

Trade we would like to see: A three-team trade with San Antonio, New York and Phoenix. The Spurs receive Dario Saric, Evan Fournier, a 2023 top-14-protected first (via Washington) and a 2024 top-14-protected first from Phoenix (will turn into a 2024 and 2025 second-round picks if not conveyed). Phoenix will receive Jakob Poeltl and Cam Reddish. New York will receive Jae Crowder and Josh Okogie.

https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/35441254/2023-nba-trade-deadline-western-conference-deal-predictions

Thanks for sharing these man!
It's really crazy to see some of the stuff the nba talking media promotes though.....lol!

In looking at these trades I've come to the conclusion that either ESPN really hates the suns still or simply shouldn't be making trades as they're really stupid and don't think at all about the outcomes or reasoning to validate the trades they're promoting here.

Not one of these trades are remotely reasonable or beneficial for the suns. The suns front office would have to be severely drunk self hating nihilists to entertain these postulations.

Jesus man...is this really an appropriate reaction? Someone took the time to think these through and get them published. I wouldnt be a huge fan of most of them either but Suns hate and moves like these requiring nihilistic/intoxicated people to do? For someone who spends so much time rosterbating with trade ideas (many of which I'd say are more unrealistic than these), I would think your response to someone else's ideas might be at least a tad more respectful.