Free agency and trade ideas: Which wings do we go after this summer?

[bwoolf2]

I meant Hawks getting the FRP. So they have 8 10 and 17

Wonder if they would be interested in 6 for 10 + 17. If Clarke is available at 10

I like the way you think man! I was just about to suggest something along those lines too.

Getting the 10 and 17 would allow us to quite possibly get both Clarke AND Nickiel Alexander Walker.

Or IF Clarke is already gone by 10, Then Kabengele and Jerome?

Then at 32, take Zylan Cheatham or Carson Edwards.

Could you guys imagine having the potent scoring of both Warren and Edwards for the 2nd unit?

The last thing team this team needs is to add more projects in what is a pretty bad draft, we need NBA players... not players we want and hope to be someday become NBA players, thats the type of thinking that gets us another 10 years of what we have seen the past 10, bad basketball... thats a Hard Pass...

and I would not feel comfortable maxing out Dlo good player but something about that kid tells me a max deal is playing with fire.

[Blonde]

I can’t tell if the Nets clearing space makes it more likely that they will renounce D’Lo or less likely. Is there ANY chance at all they can keep D’Lo and sign Kyrie and KD? That doesn’t seem possible but I haven’t run the numbers yet. I still maintain that we’d be fools to trade the 6th pick for Dinwiddie, especially if they are desperate to clear more space.

[Blonde]

Also, the suggestion that Monty won’t want D’Lo here as a PG makes me laugh. Yeah I’m sure he’d rather play a rag tag group of 2nd year guys and offguards or stop gap options than have a good young foundational piece in place...

[bwgood77]

I can’t tell if the Nets clearing space makes it more likely that they will renounce D’Lo or less likely. Is there ANY chance at all they can keep D’Lo and sign Kyrie and KD? That doesn’t seem possible but I haven’t run the numbers yet. I still maintain that we’d be fools to trade the 6th pick for Dinwiddie, especially if they are desperate to clear more space.

No, they only have like $45 million in space now with the DLo hold (if they pick up Prince's option..if not like $49). Only if they traded several players and their highest contracts left our Dinwiddie, Harris, but that still probably would leave them short.

I think if they can't get two max guys they will keep everyone....at least for now..and then maybe look for a trade. They also could get one big name and then still have like $15 or so for another decent name without losing anyone.

[bwgood77]

Also, the suggestion that Monty won’t want D’Lo here as a PG makes me laugh. Yeah I’m sure he’d rather play a rag tag group of 2nd year guys and offguards or stop gap options than have a good young foundational piece in place...

You think he's worth a max?

[Blonde]

Also, the suggestion that Monty won’t want D’Lo here as a PG makes me laugh. Yeah I’m sure he’d rather play a rag tag group of 2nd year guys and offguards or stop gap options than have a good young foundational piece in place...

You think he's worth a max?

In a vacuum, no. But I’d be willing to pay him a max because landing a PG of the future is such an important foundational building block for a young team. And while I don’t think he’s worth a max right now I believe there is a decent probability he lives up to that contract on the back half of it. We’d have 4 young & high ceiling starters locked up for the foreseeable future.

But I’m an Ohio State fan who probably has some bias.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Wonder if they would be interested in 6 for 10 + 17. If Clarke is available at 10

I like the way you think man! I was just about to suggest something along those lines too.

Getting the 10 and 17 would allow us to quite possibly get both Clarke AND Nickiel Alexander Walker.

Or IF Clarke is already gone by 10, Then Kabengele and Jerome?

Then at 32, take Zylan Cheatham or Carson Edwards.

Could you guys imagine having the potent scoring of both Warren and Edwards for the 2nd unit?

The last thing team this team needs is to add more projects in what is a pretty bad draft, we need NBA players... not players we want and hope to be someday become NBA players, thats the type of thinking that gets us another 10 years of what we have seen the past 10, bad basketball... thats a Hard Pass...

and I would not feel comfortable maxing out Dlo good player but something about that kid tells me a max deal is playing with fire.

Agree to disagree man.

First, all NBA players were at one time or another prospects obviously, and no one can accurately prognosticate their development curve right away.

But in considering that we're not currently a free agent destination, and lacking significant cap space, it'd be pretty shortsighted to neglect the opportunity to be able to add cheap talent and depth by neglecting the draft.

But I do believe that part of the major reason for us struggling this past decade was primarily due to the lack of proper player development. This has apparently been addressed by the front office recently.

Also, Clarke is already 22, level headed and would provide much needed defense at the 4 next to Ayton. Also NAW is a very solid combo guard that plays with poise.

And whose game and skillset has been compared to Malcom Brogdon. Finally, any player that we take at 32, can develop in the G League until ready, and will help provide low cost roster depth.

Most importantly, in getting these two or so prospects, in no way means that they'd be starting. We'd of course still get our veteran starters, and they'd play behind them.

Lastly these young players on rookie contracts are going to become valued assets as they develop for potential use in trades for possible impact players.

A "bird in hand" scenario honestly.

[bwgood77]

Also, the suggestion that Monty won’t want D’Lo here as a PG makes me laugh. Yeah I’m sure he’d rather play a rag tag group of 2nd year guys and offguards or stop gap options than have a good young foundational piece in place...

You think he's worth a max?

In a vacuum, no. But I’d be willing to pay him a max because landing a PG of the future is such an important foundational building block for a young team. And while I don’t think he’s worth a max right now I believe there is a decent probability he lives up to that contract on the back half of it. We’d have 4 young & high ceiling starters locked up for the foreseeable future.

But I’m an Ohio State fan who probably has some bias.

Yeah, it's a tough one. I don't think he's worth it either but if he was on our team I certainly wouldn't want to lose him for nothing and if he's a RFA and signed with us without being matched it is almost the same thing.

The only cost would likely be depth if we waive/stretch Tyler and maybe we'd have to give up an asset, possibly a first, to have someone take on Jackson's contract. Or trade TJ into space. But in that case I guess it's more like trading TJ (or Jackson and a first or maybe 2nd) and Tyler for Russell and giving him the max.

I just wish Russell had at least league average efficiency since he takes so many shots. Don't understand why he can't get to the line either.

[lilfishi22]

I like the way you think man! I was just about to suggest something along those lines too.

Getting the 10 and 17 would allow us to quite possibly get both Clarke AND Nickiel Alexander Walker.

Or IF Clarke is already gone by 10, Then Kabengele and Jerome?

Then at 32, take Zylan Cheatham or Carson Edwards.

Could you guys imagine having the potent scoring of both Warren and Edwards for the 2nd unit?

The last thing team this team needs is to add more projects in what is a pretty bad draft, we need NBA players... not players we want and hope to be someday become NBA players, thats the type of thinking that gets us another 10 years of what we have seen the past 10, bad basketball... thats a Hard Pass...

and I would not feel comfortable maxing out Dlo good player but something about that kid tells me a max deal is playing with fire.

Agree to disagree man.

First, all NBA players were at one time or another prospects obviously, and no one can accurately prognosticate their development curve right away.

But in considering that we're not currently a free agent destination, and lacking significant cap space, it'd be pretty shortsighted to neglect the opportunity to be able to add cheap talent and depth by neglecting the draft.

But I do believe that part of the major reason for us struggling this past decade was primarily due to the lack of proper player development. This has apparently been addressed by the front office recently.

Also, Clarke is already 22, level headed and would provide much needed defense at the 4 next to Ayton. Also NAW is a very solid combo guard that plays with poise.

And whose game and skillset has been compared to Malcom Brogdon. Finally, any player that we take at 32, can develop in the G League until ready, and will help provide low cost roster depth.

Most importantly, in getting these two or so prospects, in no way means that they'd be starting. We'd of course still get our veteran starters, and they'd play behind them.

Lastly these young players on rookie contracts are going to become valued assets as they develop for potential use in trades for possible impact players.

A "bird in hand" scenario honestly.

I know you have an affinity for prospects Ghost, considering how much research you do on them but I think you may be a little blinded by the potential of these young players and not seeing what we actually need. I'm not saying these players can't help us in the future or that they can't contribute a little now but I think we have to consider that Booker is a maxed out player now and he's entering his prime. We need guys who we KNOW can play now. The best way for our young players like Booker, like Ayton, like Bridges and even Oubre get better is by surrounding them with players who aren't here to learn how to play but already know how to play. We need experienced leaders out there, not more headless chickens.

Add another prospect, fine. But I'm not in favor of adding any more than one.

[Saberestar]

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[bigfoot]

I like the way you think man! I was just about to suggest something along those lines too.

Getting the 10 and 17 would allow us to quite possibly get both Clarke AND Nickiel Alexander Walker.

Or IF Clarke is already gone by 10, Then Kabengele and Jerome?

Then at 32, take Zylan Cheatham or Carson Edwards.

Could you guys imagine having the potent scoring of both Warren and Edwards for the 2nd unit?

The last thing team this team needs is to add more projects in what is a pretty bad draft, we need NBA players... not players we want and hope to be someday become NBA players, thats the type of thinking that gets us another 10 years of what we have seen the past 10, bad basketball... thats a Hard Pass...

and I would not feel comfortable maxing out Dlo good player but something about that kid tells me a max deal is playing with fire.

Agree to disagree man.

First, all NBA players were at one time or another prospects obviously, and no one can accurately prognosticate their development curve right away.

But in considering that we're not currently a free agent destination, and lacking significant cap space, it'd be pretty shortsighted to neglect the opportunity to be able to add cheap talent and depth by neglecting the draft.

But I do believe that part of the major reason for us struggling this past decade was primarily due to the lack of proper player development. This has apparently been addressed by the front office recently.

Also, Clarke is already 22, level headed and would provide much needed defense at the 4 next to Ayton. Also NAW is a very solid combo guard that plays with poise.

And whose game and skillset has been compared to Malcom Brogdon. Finally, any player that we take at 32, can develop in the G League until ready, and will help provide low cost roster depth.

Most importantly, in getting these two or so prospects, in no way means that they'd be starting. We'd of course still get our veteran starters, and they'd play behind them.

Lastly these young players on rookie contracts are going to become valued assets as they develop for potential use in trades for possible impact players.

A "bird in hand" scenario honestly.

Your looking at wrong. In the olden days, players had 3-4 years of player development in college. Their development curve was pretty well known by then. Now with these 18 year one and done players you have significantly more misses than hits. Look at our draft failures that last few years. The mistakes we have made are not player development, it's gifting time to rookies that are not NBA ready because we lack veterans who would school them every day in practice. Development doesn't come from game time it starts in practice by earning minutes.

Also, I believe we have made big mistakes by drafting for athletic potential over basketball IQ and shooting skills. Chriss and Jackson are both are perfect examples on the negative side while Booker, Warren, and Bridges are examples on the positive end. Honestly Ayton over Doncic is likely another misstep too. Any picks we make this season need to be college juniors or seniors who have already made significant strides on player development. The picks need to be ready to contribute off the bench this season. Tired of 18 year old millionaires wasting our cap space.

[SuperSunsFan]

Do upper class men usually have better advanced stats than freshmen just for having more experience? How is Coby White's stats compared to other freshman point guards drafted in the past who turned out find like Fox or Murray? analytically speaking Clarke is good but how much does that have to do with the fact that he is old, do the models factor in age and experience as well?

[bwgood77]

Do upper class men usually have better advanced stats than freshmen just for having more experience? How is Coby White's stats compared to other freshman point guards drafted in the past who turned out find like Fox or Murray? analytically speaking Clarke is good but how much does that have to do with the fact that he is old, do the models factor in age and experience as well?

Across all of college basketball, yes, upper class men will have better advanced stats, but what happens is we compare the top recruits...like maybe the top 10 recruits and a couple surprise freshman to solid sophomores or upper class men who have really worked and progressed. Clarke, for example, obviously was helped with age, experience, etc, but his advanced #s were better than anyone outside of Zion in years...I think his BPM was 2nd of the last 10 years while AD and Towns were 3rd and 4th...or something like that. He had a TS% of 70%...finished better than guys like Ayton....blocked shots like a madman. Made a huge difference for his team. Ayton couldn't prevent people from getting to the rim in college so really struggled there.

It's just hard to know how much all of this translates. Culver and Hunter are two others who are helped by having more time to develop in college...and Morant.

[DirtyDez]

Also, the suggestion that Monty won’t want D’Lo here as a PG makes me laugh. Yeah I’m sure he’d rather play a rag tag group of 2nd year guys and offguards or stop gap options than have a good young foundational piece in place...

You think he's worth a max?

It doesn’t matter because we can’t pay him the max. Hypothetically if we had the cap space I could live with that considering the ages of Book, D’Lo and Ayton.

[bwgood77]

Monty said he's really excited about Tyler...loves the intangibles he brings, coming from a winning program, etc. Not surprising since our run at the end of the season really seemed to have a lot to do with him. Even shortly before that run, Devin had mentioned it's the worst it's ever been, and this was long after Oubre had joined the team, but Tyler really seemed to bring something...a little bit of that PJ Tucker type mentality...leaving it out there....also seemed to give them advice. Makes me feel we won't look to get rid of him, though of course I'm sure we would if a great opportunity presents itself.

[bwgood77]

Also, the suggestion that Monty won’t want D’Lo here as a PG makes me laugh. Yeah I’m sure he’d rather play a rag tag group of 2nd year guys and offguards or stop gap options than have a good young foundational piece in place...

You think he's worth a max?

It doesn’t matter because we can’t pay him the max. Hypothetically if we had the cap space I could live with that considering the ages of Book, D’Lo and Ayton.

Well we'd have to create the space by dumping and/or waiving/stretching players.

[DirtyDez]

You think he's worth a max?

It doesn’t matter because we can’t pay him the max. Hypothetically if we had the cap space I could live with that considering the ages of Book, D’Lo and Ayton.

Well we'd have to create the space by dumping and/or waiving/stretching players.

The Nets just gave up two FRP’s to dump 15 mil. Tyler Johnson makes just over 19m and I don’t believe teams will line up to take Warren and Jackson off our hands not to mention Kelly Oubre waiting all this out for another RFA to get a max deal from the Suns.

[bwgood77]

It doesn’t matter because we can’t pay him the max. Hypothetically if we had the cap space I could live with that considering the ages of Book, D’Lo and Ayton.

Well we'd have to create the space by dumping and/or waiving/stretching players.

The Nets just gave up two FRP’s to dump 15 mil. Tyler Johnson makes just over 19m and I don’t believe teams will line up to take Warren and Jackson off our hands not to mention Kelly Oubre waiting all this out for another RFA to get a max deal from the Suns.

Yeah, even if he gets renounced I don't think we likely end up with him. But it's not impossible.

[Blonde]

It doesn’t matter because we can’t pay him the max. Hypothetically if we had the cap space I could live with that considering the ages of Book, D’Lo and Ayton.

Well we'd have to create the space by dumping and/or waiving/stretching players.

The Nets just gave up two FRP’s to dump 15 mil. Tyler Johnson makes just over 19m and I don’t believe teams will line up to take Warren and Jackson off our hands not to mention Kelly Oubre waiting all this out for another RFA to get a max deal from the Suns.

Stretching Tyler and dumping Josh gets us 27 million which is what D'Lo's max starts at. There are several other ways to create that room too, but this one seems easy enough.

I think the Nets case is a little different than you make it out to be because they also got back Prince who is a decent prospect worth about a late first.

[DirtyDez]

Well we'd have to create the space by dumping and/or waiving/stretching players.

The Nets just gave up two FRP’s to dump 15 mil. Tyler Johnson makes just over 19m and I don’t believe teams will line up to take Warren and Jackson off our hands not to mention Kelly Oubre waiting all this out for another RFA to get a max deal from the Suns.

Yeah, even if he gets renounced I don't think we likely end up with him. But it's not impossible.

The hardest part would be convincing Oubre not take sign an offer sheet if another team comes calling. Also this wouldn’t happen until Kyrie/KD both commit to Brooklyn which may take a while.

Now if they want to renounce Oubre then it could become more realistic.