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2019 season speculation including trade ideas

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Will Booker make the all-star team this year?

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Re: 2019 season speculation including trade ideas 

Post#2121 » by bwgood77 » Mon Dec 9, 2019 7:45 pm

Another excerpt fromt the first Gina piece I posted quotes from...were we not rated fairly high defensively to start, which was impressive considering our tough early schedule?

In the 10 games since Baynes first injured his hip, the Suns rank 26th in defensive rating (116.1 points allowed per 100 possessions), 27th in opponent field-goal percentage (49.2) and 23rd in opponent points in the paint (50 per game). Phoenix is 3-7 over that stretch.
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Re: 2019 season speculation including trade ideas 

Post#2122 » by Kerrsed » Mon Dec 9, 2019 8:12 pm

lilfishi22 wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
Dual wrote:If we think we need a backup PG, first we will have to clean the house a little, right now we have 4 PGs, 5 if you count Ty Johnson as one.
After that, some of the names you gave are nice, I love Livingston.


I was going to say the same. We have 4 pgs and Booker handles the ball quite a bit. We don't need to go after one of these guys.

Which leads me to question why Carter isn't talked about as much as Okobo and Ty. On paper the guy is the perfect fit next to Booker. He doesn't take shots away from Booker, defends very well and has been known to hit 3's. Yet the talk seems to be revolving around deciding between Ty and Okobo for playing time.


I am a Carter fan and have been since his draft when i was pleading for us to draft him. I thought he did a rather well job too at the beginning of the season and still believe that his defense at the PG spot is something that we are really missing by trotting Okobo and Ty out there instead of him. I also love the fact that them taking his playing time away from him hasnt got him down and he is the first guy you see on the bench jumping up congratulating our players, trying to get the crowed pumped, and just being that all-around great teammate.

The only explanation that i can thin of why he isnt playing is because he is a more "Known Quantity". He started out the season averaging over 20 minutes a game. He got the playing time over the other 2 for around 7 games. We saw what he can do. Then the time was given to Okobo to see what he brings. He averaged right around the same 20+ minutes a game that Carter was getting, but it was cut short at around 5 games. Now we are throwing Ty out there to give him his shot.

I think its all about Monty and maybe JJ just seeing what we have and who can do what before settling in and providing one of them with a more steady role.
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Re: 2019 season speculation including trade ideas 

Post#2123 » by ImNotMcDiSwear » Mon Dec 9, 2019 8:39 pm

bwgood77 wrote:Another excerpt fromt the first Gina piece I posted quotes from...were we not rated fairly high defensively to start, which was impressive considering our tough early schedule?

In the 10 games since Baynes first injured his hip, the Suns rank 26th in defensive rating (116.1 points allowed per 100 possessions), 27th in opponent field-goal percentage (49.2) and 23rd in opponent points in the paint (50 per game). Phoenix is 3-7 over that stretch.


We were. But any team that lacks a presence at the rim will struggle defensively. We've been hanging in with a crippled defense due to our hole at the 5. We are trotting out Frank Kaminsky as a starting 5 every night, and finishing with Dario Saric. I mean, what could one reasonably expect?

I'm just happy to know that all of this suffering may soon be over. We'll be a different team once we have Ayton and Baynes back in the rotation.
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Re: 2019 season speculation including trade ideas 

Post#2124 » by ImNotMcDiSwear » Mon Dec 9, 2019 8:46 pm

Kerrsed wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
I was going to say the same. We have 4 pgs and Booker handles the ball quite a bit. We don't need to go after one of these guys.

Which leads me to question why Carter isn't talked about as much as Okobo and Ty. On paper the guy is the perfect fit next to Booker. He doesn't take shots away from Booker, defends very well and has been known to hit 3's. Yet the talk seems to be revolving around deciding between Ty and Okobo for playing time.


I am a Carter fan and have been since his draft when i was pleading for us to draft him. I thought he did a rather well job too at the beginning of the season and still believe that his defense at the PG spot is something that we are really missing by trotting Okobo and Ty out there instead of him. I also love the fact that them taking his playing time away from him hasnt got him down and he is the first guy you see on the bench jumping up congratulating our players, trying to get the crowed pumped, and just being that all-around great teammate.

The only explanation that i can thin of why he isnt playing is because he is a more "Known Quantity". He started out the season averaging over 20 minutes a game. He got the playing time over the other 2 for around 7 games. We saw what he can do. Then the time was given to Okobo to see what he brings. He averaged right around the same 20+ minutes a game that Carter was getting, but it was cut short at around 5 games. Now we are throwing Ty out there to give him his shot.

I think its all about Monty and maybe JJ just seeing what we have and who can do what before settling in and providing one of them with a more steady role.


Carter's been out of the rotation because he can't play the PG on offense, and he's more tenacious on defense than he is effective. Overall, I think it's clear that Okobo, at least, has more to offer.
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Re: 2019 season speculation including trade ideas 

Post#2125 » by Fo-Real » Mon Dec 9, 2019 8:50 pm

Kerrsed wrote:
lilfishi22 wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:
I was going to say the same. We have 4 pgs and Booker handles the ball quite a bit. We don't need to go after one of these guys.

Which leads me to question why Carter isn't talked about as much as Okobo and Ty. On paper the guy is the perfect fit next to Booker. He doesn't take shots away from Booker, defends very well and has been known to hit 3's. Yet the talk seems to be revolving around deciding between Ty and Okobo for playing time.


I am a Carter fan and have been since his draft when i was pleading for us to draft him. I thought he did a rather well job too at the beginning of the season and still believe that his defense at the PG spot is something that we are really missing by trotting Okobo and Ty out there instead of him. I also love the fact that them taking his playing time away from him hasnt got him down and he is the first guy you see on the bench jumping up congratulating our players, trying to get the crowed pumped, and just being that all-around great teammate.

The only explanation that i can thin of why he isnt playing is because he is a more "Known Quantity". He started out the season averaging over 20 minutes a game. He got the playing time over the other 2 for around 7 games. We saw what he can do. Then the time was given to Okobo to see what he brings. He averaged right around the same 20+ minutes a game that Carter was getting, but it was cut short at around 5 games. Now we are throwing Ty out there to give him his shot.

I think its all about Monty and maybe JJ just seeing what we have and who can do what before settling in and providing one of them with a more steady role.


I thought it was as you mentioned, we know what we have in him and love him. So then we played Ty and Ellie to try to showcase them for trade.
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Re: 2019 season speculation including trade ideas 

Post#2126 » by Ghost of Kleine » Mon Dec 9, 2019 8:59 pm

What about this as a 3rd team facilitator between Cleveland and Denver for love?

Cleveland/ Denver/ and Phoenix ( 3rd team facilitator).

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=wr7dco3 .
Cleveland-
gets instant cap relief by acquiring Millsaps' 30 million expiring. And a first round pick ( lottery protected from Phoenix).

Denver- Gets Love , And Frank Kaminsky, Whilst Love gets to play for a contender. And Denver gets stronger overall.

Phoenix gets- a decent backup 4 who's more active and can hit the 3 in Hernangomez, and a decent young backup guard who's also good at hitting the three in Morris. And a 2020 2nd from Denver ( in exchange for the first sent to Cleveland). Phoenix can then use the 2020 2nd to add a promising defensive shotblocking big man in either Ikey Obiagu, or Neemias Queta to replace Kaminsys' spot. Everyone gets fair value too.
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Re: 2019 season speculation including trade ideas 

Post#2127 » by ImNotMcDiSwear » Mon Dec 9, 2019 9:14 pm

Denver does not want to trade Milsap. Cleveland wants more than that for Love anyway. They need assets to rebuild with.

We come in and swoop up value in this trade. I don't think it's very realistic.

I really don't expect us to make a significant trade this season. The plan is to win with the players we have.
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Re: 2019 season speculation including trade ideas 

Post#2128 » by bwgood77 » Mon Dec 9, 2019 9:22 pm

ImNotMcDiSwear wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:Another excerpt fromt the first Gina piece I posted quotes from...were we not rated fairly high defensively to start, which was impressive considering our tough early schedule?

In the 10 games since Baynes first injured his hip, the Suns rank 26th in defensive rating (116.1 points allowed per 100 possessions), 27th in opponent field-goal percentage (49.2) and 23rd in opponent points in the paint (50 per game). Phoenix is 3-7 over that stretch.


We were. But any team that lacks a presence at the rim will struggle defensively. We've been hanging in with a crippled defense due to our hole at the 5. We are trotting out Frank Kaminsky as a starting 5 every night, and finishing with Dario Saric. I mean, what could one reasonably expect?

I'm just happy to know that all of this suffering may soon be over. We'll be a different team once we have Ayton and Baynes back in the rotation.


I just hope Baynes is able to play all 4 games before Ayton returns. They all seem winnable, but without him, they all seem losable too.
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Re: 2019 season speculation including trade ideas 

Post#2129 » by bwgood77 » Mon Dec 9, 2019 9:27 pm

Ghost of Kleine wrote:What about this as a 3rd team facilitator between Cleveland and Denver for love?

Cleveland/ Denver/ and Phoenix ( 3rd team facilitator).

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=wr7dco3 .
Cleveland-
gets instant cap relief by acquiring Millsaps' 30 million expiring. And a first round pick ( lottery protected from Phoenix).

Denver- Gets Love , And Frank Kaminsky, Whilst Love gets to play for a contender. And Denver gets stronger overall.

Phoenix gets- a decent backup 4 who's more active and can hit the 3 in Hernangomez, and a decent young backup guard who's also good at hitting the three in Morris. And a 2020 2nd from Denver ( in exchange for the first sent to Cleveland). Phoenix can then use the 2020 2nd to add a promising defensive shotblocking big man in either Ikey Obiagu, or Neemias Queta to replace Kaminsys' spot. Everyone gets fair value too.


ImNotMcDiSwear wrote:Denver does not want to trade Milsap. Cleveland wants more than that for Love anyway. They need assets to rebuild with.

We come in and swoop up value in this trade. I don't think it's very realistic.

I really don't expect us to make a significant trade this season. The plan is to win with the players we have.


Millsap is WAY better than Love....3pt shooting....Millsap 48%, Love 37%, way better at steals, blocks, etc

But the biggest difference is in defensive rating (well, and offensive rating for that matter)......Millsap 119-102, Love 109-111

Jokic needs a solid defensive 4 next to him (even though Jokic isn't a terrible defender, but it's not his strong suit)

Here are the #s

http://bkref.com/tiny/fbAB9

They also just signed Jerami Grant to take over as 4 and have depth like Juancho who can play 4 or eventually probably Michael Porter.
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Re: 2019 season speculation including trade ideas 

Post#2130 » by Ghost of Kleine » Mon Dec 9, 2019 9:56 pm

ImNotMcDiSwear wrote:Denver does not want to trade Milsap. Cleveland wants more than that for Love anyway. They need assets to rebuild with.

We come in and swoop up value in this trade. I don't think it's very realistic.

I really don't expect us to make a significant trade this season. The plan is to win with the players we have.


I hear you, And understand where your coming from. However, A few considerations. First, Denver may not prefer to trade Milsap. But then again, If they do, and apparently there's already rumors suggesting interest, Then it's an opportunity for us as a third team facilitator.

Next, Cleveland may want a whole lot more for Love, But let's be honest........Who's actually going to offer more than potentially expirings, and maybe a heavily protected pick?

I mean yeah, Love is producing well, But he's still on the wrong side of 30, with a concerning injury history and his contract size and length is obviously a cap crippler. He doesn't hold any value to teams that aren't playoff contenders, and rebuilding teams, or teams outside of the playoffs won't want him for his age and contract size and length. So where's the unrealistic value come from that they expect to get beyond what we'd offer?

Finally, I can't really consider us stealing value, just by taking back Hernangomez and Morris, as neither are starters currently, Nor do they get much playing time consistently. And We're the ones providing the first round pick to Cleveland on behalf of Denver too, Plus, we're also sending them Kaminsky ( who's still a decent floor spreading big, on an expiring deal). Ultimately, No one can be sure of what kinds of trades will take place, But I wouldn't be surprised in the least if we did look to get in on a potential Love trade or other in the coming months. However, If we do in fact choose to stay as is, We'll possibly still be a playoff team. And I'd personally prefer to gear up for 2021 as my priority if it were up to me.
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Re: 2019 season speculation including trade ideas 

Post#2131 » by RiRuHoops » Tue Dec 10, 2019 12:15 am

After giving it some thought if we trade for Love it needs to be for Oubre in January. In the mean time we see if Saric improves with Ayton back.

Why?

1) long term salary. If we take on Love how the hell Sarver going to play Oubre new big contract in 2021 if he pays Booker, Love, Rubio and extentions coming up for Ayton and likely Bridges. Also Baynes may be on the books.

2) It may be better for the team to have Bridges as a starter and Oubre may not like losing his spot.

3) Value. Oubre has enough to not add any picks or other young players to the trade. Oubre/Tyler for Love/Delly works
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Re: 2019 season speculation including trade ideas 

Post#2132 » by Ghost of Kleine » Tue Dec 10, 2019 12:53 am

bwgood77 wrote:
Ghost of Kleine wrote:What about this as a 3rd team facilitator between Cleveland and Denver for love?

Cleveland/ Denver/ and Phoenix ( 3rd team facilitator).

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=wr7dco3 .
Cleveland-
gets instant cap relief by acquiring Millsaps' 30 million expiring. And a first round pick ( lottery protected from Phoenix).

Denver- Gets Love , And Frank Kaminsky, Whilst Love gets to play for a contender. And Denver gets stronger overall.

Phoenix gets- a decent backup 4 who's more active and can hit the 3 in Hernangomez, and a decent young backup guard who's also good at hitting the three in Morris. And a 2020 2nd from Denver ( in exchange for the first sent to Cleveland). Phoenix can then use the 2020 2nd to add a promising defensive shotblocking big man in either Ikey Obiagu, or Neemias Queta to replace Kaminsys' spot. Everyone gets fair value too.


ImNotMcDiSwear wrote:Denver does not want to trade Milsap. Cleveland wants more than that for Love anyway. They need assets to rebuild with.

We come in and swoop up value in this trade. I don't think it's very realistic.

I really don't expect us to make a significant trade this season. The plan is to win with the players we have.


Millsap is WAY better than Love....3pt shooting....Millsap 48%, Love 37%, way better at steals, blocks, etc

But the biggest difference is in defensive rating (well, and offensive rating for that matter)......Millsap 119-102, Love 109-111

Jokic needs a solid defensive 4 next to him (even though Jokic isn't a terrible defender, but it's not his strong suit)

Here are the #s

http://bkref.com/tiny/fbAB9

They also just signed Jerami Grant to take over as 4 and have depth like Juancho who can play 4 or eventually probably Michael Porter.


I'd definitely prefer Milsap to love myself as well, especially with that contract. But as I said, IF for whatever reason, the rumor mentioned today was at all true, and they did indeed look to trade for Love, I'd definitely enquire about what it'd take to possibly get Hernangomez and Morris if possible.

Honestly though, it doesn't matter to me what team trades for Love, As long as it isn't us! Other than acting as a 3rd team facilitator basically. And IF there's some quality pieces that we could possibly add by being a 3rd team facilitator, Then I'm intrigued of course. We'll know pretty soon which team that will be. But the one thing we can expect is that in the NBA, it's the unexpected trades that nobody saw coming that usually transpires. I just hope that we're proactive enough to steal some value if it's there for us.
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Re: 2019 season speculation including trade ideas 

Post#2133 » by bwgood77 » Tue Dec 10, 2019 1:31 am

This is tomorrow at 11am Phx time if anyone wants to participate.

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Re: 2019 season speculation including trade ideas 

Post#2134 » by bwgood77 » Tue Dec 10, 2019 5:41 am

538 now has us projected to be the 7th seed, but only 1 game ahead of the Wolves, 2 ahead of the Thunder, 3 ahead of Portland, and 4 ahead of the Kings. You can sort by projected record by clicking on it.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-nba-predictions/?ex_cid=rrpromo
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Re: 2019 season speculation including trade ideas 

Post#2135 » by hollywood6964 » Tue Dec 10, 2019 5:45 am

bwgood77 wrote:538 now has us projected to be the 7th seed, but only 1 game ahead of the Wolves, 2 ahead of the Thunder, 3 ahead of Portland, and 4 ahead of the Kings. You can sort by projected record by clicking on it.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-nba-predictions/?ex_cid=rrpromo

Oh 538 shooting bunnies as it goes along. Well hollywood has predicted from game 1 that we'd have 51 wins if healthy. Now we haven't been healthy, but I still think we can go on a damn tear, and soon, and get back on track for a 6th seed. It's too bad we've had the injuries.
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Re: 2019 season speculation including trade ideas 

Post#2136 » by hollywood6964 » Tue Dec 10, 2019 5:47 am

hollywood6964 wrote:
bwgood77 wrote:538 now has us projected to be the 7th seed, but only 1 game ahead of the Wolves, 2 ahead of the Thunder, 3 ahead of Portland, and 4 ahead of the Kings. You can sort by projected record by clicking on it.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-nba-predictions/?ex_cid=rrpromo

Oh 538 shooting bunnies as it goes along. Well hollywood has predicted from game 1 that we'd have 51 wins if healthy. Now we haven't been healthy, but I still think we can go on a damn tear, and soon, and get back on track for a 6th seed. It's too bad we've had the injuries.

I'm being facetious, but it would be funny if we end up near that total. I should've put $$$$ on the over/under win total for us at the beginning of the season. Oh well.
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Re: 2019 season speculation including trade ideas 

Post#2137 » by DRK » Tue Dec 10, 2019 8:37 am

With Tyler out of the rotation, as much as I dont want to disrupt chemistry, I think it would be wise to move Tyler at the deadline.

One guy I would be looking at seriously is Robert Covington. He would fit alongside Ayton like a glove, and allow Saric/Baynes to backup the 4/5.

Would Tyler Johnson + Top 5 protected 1st get the job done? Might have to take back a contract....
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Re: 2019 season speculation including trade ideas 

Post#2138 » by Revived » Tue Dec 10, 2019 8:46 am

DRK wrote:With Tyler out of the rotation, as much as I dont want to disrupt chemistry, I think it would be wise to move Tyler at the deadline.

One guy I would be looking at seriously is Robert Covington. He would fit alongside Ayton like a glove, and allow Saric/Baynes to backup the 4/5.

Would Tyler Johnson + Top 5 protected 1st get the job done? Might have to take back a contract....

Covington can’t play PF. I was on the TWolves board and they all hate that their HC keeps trying to turn Covington into a PF because he is outmatched there. I don’t think that will change in Phoenix.

I like him but he plays a position we’re fine at, SF.
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Re: 2019 season speculation including trade ideas 

Post#2139 » by Qwigglez » Tue Dec 10, 2019 9:39 am

RiRuSuns wrote:After giving it some thought if we trade for Love it needs to be for Oubre in January. In the mean time we see if Saric improves with Ayton back.

Why?

1) long term salary. If we take on Love how the hell Sarver going to play Oubre new big contract in 2021 if he pays Booker, Love, Rubio and extentions coming up for Ayton and likely Bridges. Also Baynes may be on the books.

2) It may be better for the team to have Bridges as a starter and Oubre may not like losing his spot.

3) Value. Oubre has enough to not add any picks or other young players to the trade. Oubre/Tyler for Love/Delly works


We really shouldn't mess with the team chemistry to the extent of replacing our starting small forward. Oubre has been a big reason why we've seen a culture change. I don't think anyone really wants to be on the hook for Love's contract so I can see him being had for virtually just expiring contracts which the Suns can do.
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Re: 2019 season speculation including trade ideas 

Post#2140 » by Wilber85 » Tue Dec 10, 2019 12:30 pm

Hate to say it but

saric > 32 year old love

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