The Official 2025 Offseason Thread Part 1

[Slim Charless]

Giannis mentioning Toronto and Nets is a massive hint he wants to move his family to New York as he has ventures there.... knicks has the assets to trade for him and still remain elite after the trade.

If he's serious about going to Canada, the Dinos can offer a good deal IMO.

Scottie Barnes and the #9 pick for starters then go from there. I honestly don't think the Spurs can top that unless they give up both Castle and the #2. As for the Rockets, they'll need to go with Sengun and our picks along with probably Tari Eason and Reed.

What is interesting is if Giannis is smart, he'll see that staying in the east is the easy path to the Finals next year. Masai has known Giannis since he was a child I guess. I read on the Raptors forum that it was Masai that originally helped Giannis get his freaking Greek citizenship way back when. That kind of stuff is massive and cannot be brushed off.

Why would Raptors trade Scottie? He's still young and an all rounder already.
And why would Giannis go to a team without Scottie or another star player?

Knicks is his target. If knicks win the championship Giannis will wait until trade deadline and so would Knicks FO, this way the fan backlash is mitigated and allows the players and fans to celebrate for a few months. It's very obvious what Giannis wants, he gets to play with Brunson and still have good teams mates in Mikal and Hart.

Scottie and Giannis would be a terrible pairing. They would get in each others way all the time. If the Knicks win tonight, I don't think they make any moves.

[thamadkant]

If he's serious about going to Canada, the Dinos can offer a good deal IMO.

Scottie Barnes and the #9 pick for starters then go from there. I honestly don't think the Spurs can top that unless they give up both Castle and the #2. As for the Rockets, they'll need to go with Sengun and our picks along with probably Tari Eason and Reed.

What is interesting is if Giannis is smart, he'll see that staying in the east is the easy path to the Finals next year. Masai has known Giannis since he was a child I guess. I read on the Raptors forum that it was Masai that originally helped Giannis get his freaking Greek citizenship way back when. That kind of stuff is massive and cannot be brushed off.

Why would Raptors trade Scottie? He's still young and an all rounder already.
And why would Giannis go to a team without Scottie or another star player?

Knicks is his target. If knicks win the championship Giannis will wait until trade deadline and so would Knicks FO, this way the fan backlash is mitigated and allows the players and fans to celebrate for a few months. It's very obvious what Giannis wants, he gets to play with Brunson and still have good teams mates in Mikal and Hart.

Scottie and Giannis would be a terrible pairing. They would get in each others way all the time. If the Knicks win tonight, I don't think they make any moves.

Hence Raptors are not a good destination for Giannis fit wise... he is linked to them because it's literally a bus ride away from New York city... and also Nets, same reason.

Giannis wants Knicks.
Even if they win tonight and even win the championship, they will wait until trade deadline and then pull a Giannis for Towns and Anunoby trade. Bucks sees that as a good trade since they can still try to win games while Lillard is on the payroll until end of 2027...

[thamadkant]

Also rewatched the Thunder vs Nuggets game... refs tried to give it to Thunder. A couple of real obvious biased calls.

Game 7 will be Thunder likely winning, expect 10 or more free throw discrepancy and foul trouble for Nuggets. But this is just based on the bias in Game 6.

[bwgood77]

I assume the thunder would not make a move like getting a really old player unless they didn't have to give up too much. Caruso (31) is the oldest guy in their rotation so probably that is the max age, or maybe 32 is the max age they'd go for (again unless they can get a no-brainer).

It's going to be really really hard to upgrade that starting unit unless they're getting a guy to replace Lu Dort. Or for example if they got Porzingis if Boston wants off him, they can demote hartenstein to the bench.

Starting KD is obviously better than Lu Dort. But they might also think they need to keep getting bigger players. Jaylen Williams (the bigger Jay) is small at C at 6'9". Shai, Jdub, Dort, Caruso, Cason are their guards/wing rotation and all are 6'5". They play an amazing swarming quick defense that was incredible but if we're just looking at an obvious place to upgrade it would be just getting a bigger wing or two and they have the assets to do that and that doesn't necessarily require KD.

They have a lot of solid but not great tradables. I'd want Cason and Aaron Wiggins, and then one of Ajay Mitchell or Topic. Of course whatever picks are reasonable. That's two of their nonstarting rotation players and one of their raw prospects. The other prospect we don't acquire can try to move into that backup G spot vacated by the departing Cason, and KD demotes Lu Dort to Aaron Wiggins spot.

An awful package to be sure for us but KD is 37 and I just can't see OKC breaking bank for a guy that age. Although I think I like Cason much more than Jalen Green as an NBA player even if Cason doesn't have the theoretical ceiling of Green.

That being said I doubt KD has interest and I don't think OKC does. Just send him Phoenix for however many possible of our picks back.

I don't think if they lose they are going to panic. Presti doesn't panic. He's not Ishbia. They are still the youngest team in the league with an average age of 24.1. Presti builds for the long haul. They have great chemistry. They will have lost in 7 to a championship team with a 3 time MVP.

It would only be their 2nd year even making the playoffs with this crew. Most teams don't panic if they don't win it all in their 2nd year, especially if they got better the 2nd year, and being the youngest team in the NBA helps. Now if they were an older team and had some assets I could see it maybe.

I think it would be more likely they could look at making smaller moves, but they love playing together and have great chemistry.

Yeah, I think the main thing they may add is a little more size so they would have an easier time dealing with bigger teams (like the Mavs next season who will have a frontcourt of AD, Lively, Gafford, Flagg) and a little more muscle for guys like Jokic. Getting something similar to a Steven Adams type back for certain teams might be worthwhile.

Jokic is just crazy good. There's nothing really wrong with this team. They are just facing a championship team with one of the best players ever in his absolute prime. Not easy to beat. Not someone they "DEFINITELY should" like many probably assume. They had a better record but this team has a ton of exxperience. They made the WCF back in the bubble...came back from 3-1 against Utah and then the Clips team.

Yeah Jokic is ridiculous. Like him getting 40+ minutes a game in the playoffs compared to him getting 36 or whatever in the regular season. That's 4 more minutes minimum that Joker plays, and 4 less that a worse player on that team plays... That's a big difference. And of course the Nuggets are a team with big guys vs OKC smaller guys. Mix that in with how the reffing gets more physical in the playoffs you have a recipe for a "better" team of 68 wins struggling against a 50 win team.

Not complaining about the change from the regular season reffing since the playoffs are always physical. Outside of hartenstein and Chet OKC is a tiny team...if they have a guy like Steven Adams like you mentioned and they might win this in 5. They are a great team but they are small (and young).

Then there is the issue of production outside of Shai. The defense the Nuggets have played has been great but OKC needs Jalen Williams, another young guy to step up to open things up more for Shai by giving the Denver defense something to think about. He hasn't had a great series and their second best player has been Caruso or Chet (it's probably Caruso).

Maybe they can bring in Ayton as their enforcer....haha....though he could be an interior scoring threat. j/k...I'd just go after someone like Olynyk or that type but maybe bigger and physical, but would be nice to get a big guy who was a big interior scoring threat but also tough defensively inside.

They also have the 15th, 24th and 44th picks. I don't know much about Khaman Maluach or Derik Queen but those guys are 7'2 and 6'10 and both 250 lbs and projected to go around 10th.

They could use KD's scoring but I just don't see them giving up a lot (though they could afford to trade a number of picks). I don't think fans or Presti would really want KD too much given that he just left them in FA with no warning. He could make them better, or at least you'd think he would, but he could disrupt chemistry and how much they all like playing together if he's taking 25 shots a game. They can't get that much better than they were this season. But they could use the size for the playoffs. I think they also need a sniper or two off the bench...high % 3pt shooter, though they were still 6th in 3pt shooting and 1st in opponents 3pt shooting (kept opponents to least efficient in NBA) at 34.2%. We were 3rd in 3pt% at 37.8% but 4th worst in opponents at 37%.

[bwgood77]

Why would Raptors trade Scottie? He's still young and an all rounder already.
And why would Giannis go to a team without Scottie or another star player?

Knicks is his target. If knicks win the championship Giannis will wait until trade deadline and so would Knicks FO, this way the fan backlash is mitigated and allows the players and fans to celebrate for a few months. It's very obvious what Giannis wants, he gets to play with Brunson and still have good teams mates in Mikal and Hart.

Scottie and Giannis would be a terrible pairing. They would get in each others way all the time. If the Knicks win tonight, I don't think they make any moves.

Hence Raptors are not a good destination for Giannis fit wise... he is linked to them because it's literally a bus ride away from New York city... and also Nets, same reason.

Giannis wants Knicks.
Even if they win tonight and even win the championship, they will wait until trade deadline and then pull a Giannis for Towns and Anunoby trade. Bucks sees that as a good trade since they can still try to win games while Lillard is on the payroll until end of 2027...

That seems like a pretty even trade.

[Saberestar]

I thought because of the second apron or the first (WHATEVER), that we aren't eligible to receive signed and traded players?

First apron teams can receive sign&traded players but they need to match salaries.

I really like Kuminga. That’s the type of player with high upside that we can get without losing too many assets.

Can we send multiple players to them in the sign and trade? Or do we think he is only gonna get 15 is mil per year like Grayson?

Grayson has $54.2M/3 years left on his contract with the Suns. $18.1 per year.

That could be enough to match Kuminga's new per year salary. IDK if we can send multiple players.

Edit:

Bobby Marks:

Kuminga will receive a $7.9M Qualifying Offer by June 29.

After that there are 4 options:

1. Sign with Golden State.
2. Sign an offer sheet with a team with room (BKN is the only team with $30M+). The Warriors have the right to match.
3. Sign-and-trade (50% of his salary counts as outgoing salary)
4. Sign the QO and become a UFA in 2026

[Slim Charless]

First apron teams can receive sign&traded players but they need to match salaries.

I really like Kuminga. That’s the type of player with high upside that we can get without losing too many assets.

Can we send multiple players to them in the sign and trade? Or do we think he is only gonna get 15 is mil per year like Grayson?

Grayson has $54.2M/3 years left on his contract with the Suns. $18.1 per year.

That could be enough to match Kuminga's new per year salary. IDK if we can send multiple players.

Edit:

Bobby Marks:

Kuminga will receive a $7.9M Qualifying Offer by June 29.

After that there are 4 options:

1. Sign with Golden State.
2. Sign an offer sheet with a team with room (BKN is the only team with $30M+). The Warriors have the right to match.
3. Sign-and-trade (50% of his salary counts as outgoing salary)
4. Sign the QO and become a UFA in 2026

A straight swap? I'd do that all day. Kuminga has talent, he's just miscast with Kerr as his coach. Wonder what a deal would look like?

Hope brooklyn has bigger fish to fry this summer as opposed to Kuminga and we can make that happen.

[dremill24]

Can we send multiple players to them in the sign and trade? Or do we think he is only gonna get 15 is mil per year like Grayson?

Grayson has $54.2M/3 years left on his contract with the Suns. $18.1 per year.

That could be enough to match Kuminga's new per year salary. IDK if we can send multiple players.

Edit:

Bobby Marks:

Kuminga will receive a $7.9M Qualifying Offer by June 29.

After that there are 4 options:

1. Sign with Golden State.
2. Sign an offer sheet with a team with room (BKN is the only team with $30M+). The Warriors have the right to match.
3. Sign-and-trade (50% of his salary counts as outgoing salary)
4. Sign the QO and become a UFA in 2026

A straight swap? I'd do that all day. Kuminga has talent, he's just miscast with Kerr as his coach. Wonder what a deal would look like?

Hope brooklyn has bigger fish to fry this summer as opposed to Kuminga and we can make that happen.

Acquiring someone via S&T is a no go for teams over the first apron.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Read on Twitter

Yaxel Lendeborg, Cedric Coward, Myles Byrd would all be pretty solid if at 29, but there's still far more talent for us to farm even if those guys go earlier and are off the board at 29, then other players ranked higher could get pushed down ( Fall) to us at 29.

Or even past that, there's still great value into the early to mid 2nd that would be on the board for us at 29. Our top priorities under those conditions if our top options are off the board before we pick:

1- Adou Thiero. OG Anunoby.
2- Maxime Raynaud. Pau Gasol.
3- Ryan Kalkbrenner. Brook Lopez.
4- Rocco Zisarky. Rudy Gobert.
5- John Tonje. Devin Booker.

And Yanick Neiderhauser will most likely be available in the 45-60 range. But even if he isn't, there'll still be a number of really solid center options like Johan Grunloh, Vlad Goldin, Znomir Ivisic, Ckif Omoruyi, Mohammed Faye, Jonas Aidoo, Dylan Cardwell, Hunter Dickinson, etc.

[Mulhollanddrive]

One thing I dont miss about following Suns less is Kellan Olson content

[Ghost of Kleine]

Read on Twitter

For anyone that was pining for us to trade for Butler at the deadline.

Jimmy is not a myth... warriors entire system needs Curry.... they don't have 3pt shooting without Curry and the entire system collapses.

They had Curry though for the first two games, and still couldn't manage more than one win in the series. As for "playoff Jimmy" though,

No, Jimmy Butler was not good in the Warriors' series against the Timberwolves. He struggled, particularly in the final two games, failing to live up to his "Playoff Jimmy" reputation. He had a negative plus-minus and shot poorly. His performance was criticized by NBA analysts, who questioned his ability to perform without Steph Curry. 

Here's a more detailed look:

Underwhelming Performance:


Butler averaged 20.2 points in the series, but his shooting percentage was low, and he had a negative plus-minus. 

Poor Game 5:

In Game 5, Butler scored only 17 points on 4-of-11 shooting, and the Warriors were outscored when he was on the court. 

Lack of impact

Analysts noted that Butler was a negative factor in Games 4 and 5, particularly as the Warriors struggled without Steph Curry. 

[i]Contrasting Expectations:
[/i]

Butler was expected to be a key leader, but he didn't deliver, especially in the critical final games. 

"Playoff Jimmy" Disappointment:

Some pointed out that Butler didn't live up to the "Playoff Jimmy" moniker he's known for. 

He struggled despite being brought in to lead their team and was a net negative. Not really representing the nickname of playoff Jimmy as anticipated. It happens, especially as players get older. But we likely would have had a similar or worse outcome with Butler as our team culture and talent would've been weaker than that of the Warriors anyways.

Because we don't have a historically great/ legendary shooter like Curry, a really great defensive playmaker like Green, and certainly not a coach as good as Steve Kerr!

We don't even have a winning culture like Golden state or Miami either. He would have most likely struggled even more on a lesser / poorly constructed team like ours!

[Saberestar]

Grayson has $54.2M/3 years left on his contract with the Suns. $18.1 per year.

That could be enough to match Kuminga's new per year salary. IDK if we can send multiple players.

Edit:

Bobby Marks:

A straight swap? I'd do that all day. Kuminga has talent, he's just miscast with Kerr as his coach. Wonder what a deal would look like?

Hope brooklyn has bigger fish to fry this summer as opposed to Kuminga and we can make that happen.

Acquiring someone via S&T is a no go for teams over the first apron.

The idea would be to reduce a lot our salary cap before trying to get him.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Read on Twitter

Sorry.......Not sorry for Riley not getting Giannis!

How much better would Rockets be by trading Sengun & Green for Giannis?

Without adding dynamic shooting and floor spacing, slightly better than they currently are. But just exacerbating their non shooting issues even more with Giannis.

[bullsaficianado]

Read on Twitter

Sorry.......Not sorry for Riley not getting Giannis!

How much better would Rockets be by trading Sengun & Green for Giannis?

Without adding dynamic shooting and floor spacing, slightly better than they currently are. But just exacerbating their non shooting issues even more with Giannis.

He is not a good fit with the Rockets if they have to give up Sengun and Green. If they trade for him it will be just to get a big name player. He's a good fit with the Spurs and Wembanyama because he needs a big to help take the pressure off him so he can kill you in the paint. That's his game and Wembanyama commands double teams and so does he so it's a perfect fit.

[Rebound Mound]

. To add to this the league is fake anyways. We’ve caught the tip of the iceberg when it comes to some of the NBA scandals. I’m sure it’s much worse beneath the sheets. For example the Amare suspension never sat right with me. Now that we’ve learned that the spurs are the NBA’s international darling for whatever reason it all kinda makes sense. The problem is, now that the integrity is gone I have no faith that previous hiccups were just “oopies”. The stern envelope etc I will always look at any suspicious move past and present with distrust. It’s like PC gaming now, so many cheaters I just assume everyone’s cheating and I no longer care about playing games which isn’t such a bad thing lol

Just think of the guy's origins and you already have an answer. It has to be darker than dark.
Or, in the end, he could be just blaming franchises that tank and giving prizes to franchises that compete no matter what.
SAS has been a franchise that always competed.
In a short time the Heat has to be awarded another prize. Hey, it's been a long time since the three amigos time...

I’m fairly sure the spurs tanked for Duncan. I think it was something like the held David Robinson out longer than needed.

Now I remember: they selected Robinson knowing that he was going to be in the NCAA still a year, so they will be bad for the following season, which allowed them to have the first pick for Duncan.

[Saberestar]

Just think of the guy's origins and you already have an answer. It has to be darker than dark.
Or, in the end, he could be just blaming franchises that tank and giving prizes to franchises that compete no matter what.
SAS has been a franchise that always competed.
In a short time the Heat has to be awarded another prize. Hey, it's been a long time since the three amigos time...

I’m fairly sure the spurs tanked for Duncan. I think it was something like the held David Robinson out longer than needed.

Now I remember: they selected Robinson knowing that he was going to be in the NCAA still a year, so they will be bad for the following season, which allowed them to have the first pick for Duncan.

It wasn't like that. D. Robinson is much older than Duncan.

The primary stuff that happened was that D. Robinson (who was probably one of the Top 5 players in the league) had a big injury and the team was bad that year and they tanked so they could have better opportunities in the next draft. Then they got #1 and selected Duncan to pair him with a healthy D. Robinson.

[dremill24]

A straight swap? I'd do that all day. Kuminga has talent, he's just miscast with Kerr as his coach. Wonder what a deal would look like?

Hope brooklyn has bigger fish to fry this summer as opposed to Kuminga and we can make that happen.

Acquiring someone via S&T is a no go for teams over the first apron.

The idea would be to reduce a lot our salary cap before trying to get him.

I mean yeah...thats just a LOT of salary to shed. All the way down below the first apron and far enough below to ensure you can fill out your roster being hard capped at the first apron by getting a guy in S&T. Probly gonna need to give up picks to dump that salary so your entire offseason is just gutting the roster and adding Kuminga with not much else besides he and Booker? Eh..

[Saberestar]

Acquiring someone via S&T is a no go for teams over the first apron.

The idea would be to reduce a lot our salary cap before trying to get him.

I mean yeah...thats just a LOT of salary to shed. All the way down below the first apron and far enough below to ensure you can fill out your roster being hard capped at the first apron by getting a guy in S&T. Probly gonna need to give up picks to dump that salary so your entire offseason is just gutting the roster and adding Kuminga with not much else besides he and Booker? Eh..

The most possible outcome for Beal is a buyout and stretch his contract. That only move reduces our salary from $53M to $19M (his dead money). You have there $34M less...and then you have to add renouncing to Micic, Cody Martin and Nick Richards.

[dremill24]

The idea would be to reduce a lot our salary cap before trying to get him.

I mean yeah...thats just a LOT of salary to shed. All the way down below the first apron and far enough below to ensure you can fill out your roster being hard capped at the first apron by getting a guy in S&T. Probly gonna need to give up picks to dump that salary so your entire offseason is just gutting the roster and adding Kuminga with not much else besides he and Booker? Eh..

The most possible outcome for Beal is a buyout and stretch his contract. That only move reduces our salary from $53M to $19M (his dead money). You have there $34M less...and then you have to add renouncing to Micic, Cody Martin and Nick Richards.

Yeah the Beal thing is a wildcard i guess

[Rebound Mound]

I’m fairly sure the spurs tanked for Duncan. I think it was something like the held David Robinson out longer than needed.

Now I remember: they selected Robinson knowing that he was going to be in the NCAA still a year, so they will be bad for the following season, which allowed them to have the first pick for Duncan.

It wasn't like that. D. Robinson is much older than Duncan.

The primary stuff that happened was that D. Robinson (who was probably one of the Top 5 players in the league) had a big injury and the team was bad that year and they tanked so they could have better opportunities in the next draft. Then they got #1 and selected Duncan to pair him with a healthy D. Robinson.

You are right.
But prior to that, Robinson was selected and stayed one year in the Navy. Everybody knew that was happening and the SAS did it, although probably any other team would have done it equally.
My disliking of the SAS made me write with rage.
OMG, Duncan was selected 10 years later than DR.
I thought it was one year apart, then I re-thought and thought it was 3/4 years apart.
Thank you.