2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation - Free Agency Begins

[Frank Lee]

Does ‘Player of the week’ get a plaque or sumton?

[Slim Charless]

Prime DeAndre Jordan:

2014-15 All-Defensive (1st)
2014-15 All-NBA (3rd)
2015-16 All-Defensive (1st)
2015-16 All-NBA (1st)
2016-17 All-NBA (3rd)

Led the league in rebounding twice
Led the league in FG% 5 times

DeAndre Ayton:

Nov 28, 2022 Player of the Week

Let's not pretend like prime DAJ was some scrub

Different time. Different game. Those numbers mean nothing when in an era everyone is shooting 3 and fouls are called with significantly more often. Also those last couple seasons he skated in on prior opinions of him and due to lack of decent 5's able to get all NBA recognition.

[dremill24]

Why are we doing this

Cause doubledees can't help himself

[KdoubleDees23]

Why are we doing this

Cause doubledees can't help himself

because yall cry about a player thats on our roster and voted top 4 like he is some horrible scrub. Cracks me up.

someone name a 4th option that does better than the following

18/10
59% FG
61% TS

[Calvin Klein]

Watch on YouTube

[KdoubleDees23]

Could be worse ! We could have Zion

[SunsRback4Good]

Does ‘Player of the week’ get a plaque or sumton?

I truly believe it should get an award. To be on top of the game for a whole week over 500 other players is pretty impressive.

[lilfishi22]

Prime DeAndre Jordan:

2014-15 All-Defensive (1st)
2014-15 All-NBA (3rd)
2015-16 All-Defensive (1st)
2015-16 All-NBA (1st)
2016-17 All-NBA (3rd)

Led the league in rebounding twice
Led the league in FG% 5 times

DeAndre Ayton:

Nov 28, 2022 Player of the Week

Let's not pretend like prime DAJ was some scrub

Different time. Different game. Those numbers mean nothing when in an era everyone is shooting 3 and fouls are called with significantly more often. Also those last couple seasons he skated in on prior opinions of him and due to lack of decent 5's able to get all NBA recognition.

DAJ was all-NBA good for his time. DeAndre is player of the week good in his time

Different time. Different game.

[garrick]

Spoiler:

Prime DeAndre Jordan:

2014-15 All-Defensive (1st)
2014-15 All-NBA (3rd)
2015-16 All-Defensive (1st)
2015-16 All-NBA (1st)
2016-17 All-NBA (3rd)

Led the league in rebounding twice
Led the league in FG% 5 times

DeAndre Ayton:

Nov 28, 2022 Player of the Week

Let's not pretend like prime DAJ was some scrub

Different time. Different game. Those numbers mean nothing when in an era everyone is shooting 3 and fouls are called with significantly more often. Also those last couple seasons he skated in on prior opinions of him and due to lack of decent 5's able to get all NBA recognition.

DAJ was all-NBA good for his time. DeAndre is player of the week good in his time

Different time. Different game.

C'mon, Doc; Jordan's not DPOY

It's an extremely tough ballot this season. But if you ask Los Angeles Clippers head coach Doc Rivers, the choice is an easy one: DeAndre Jordan.

"He's clearly the defensive player of the year," Rivers said on Sunday. "If anybody else gets that award, we need to have an investigation. ... What he's doing defensively, if he was doing that offensively, he would be recognized as the MVP or one of them, but because it's defense, no one notices."

Maybe "no one notices" because there's just not much that stands out. Rivers has been known to get out the pom-poms for his players. In fact, Rivers already had launched the Jordan DPOY campaign in June, saying, "100 percent, I think that's what he will be" when all is said and done in 2014-15. A few days ago, Rivers claimed that "D.J. is the best defensive player in the league. I just really believe that."

Unfortunately for Rivers, Jordan's DPOY case isn't much of a case at all. This screams confirmation bias on Rivers' part more than anything. All evidence suggests Jordan is a good defensive player; not a great one, and certainly not the best. Let's run through all the reasons.

Blocks don't equal rim protection

Jordan's résumé is anchored by his shot-blocking abilities, which is a lot like saying a baseball player should win MVP because he has a high batting average. There's just so much more to defense than the couple of possessions when a defensive player gets a piece of a shot attempt. It's true that Jordan ranks fourth with 2.2 blocks per game and is currently the only player in the NBA to collect a block against every opposing team, but what about the other 65 possessions when he's on the floor?

Jordan can jump out of the gym and run the floor like a gazelle, but he struggles with today's foundational task of walling off the paint in pick-and-roll attacks. Guards find little resistance when Jordan's in their path to the rim.

Looking beyond blocks, the holes in Jordan's case begin to reveal themselves. Per SportVU player-tracking data on NBA.com, opponents shoot 49.2 percent at the rim with Jordan nearby, which ranks 31st among 59 qualified big men (at least six basket attempts defended per game). The names at the top of the heap -- Gobert, Bogut and Ibaka -- have done a far better job at creating misses near the rim than Jordan.

Jordan can jump out of the gym and run the floor like a gazelle, but he struggles with today's foundational task of walling off the paint in pick-and-roll attacks. Guards find little resistance when Jordan's in their path to the rim. He uses his hands well to deflect passes -- opposing attackers turn the ball over on 24.2 percent of plays in the pick-and-roll, the highest for any big defender -- but his effective field goal percentage allowed on such plays ranks 22nd among 36 bigs, according to Synergy tracking. He defends with his hands more than with his feet, which is problematic against all the speedy guards in the league.

Jordan has done well to keep himself healthy and on the court. He hasn't missed a game this season and leads all big men in minutes played. Helping matters is that he's cut down his troublesome foul rate that plagued him earlier in his career. In his sophomore season he averaged 6.9 fouls per 100 possessions, but he's knocked that down to just 4.4 this season, which ranks ninth lowest among all big men (Al Horford is freakishly good at defending without fouling).

The Clippers aren't a good defensive outfit

Here's a fundamental question: If Jordan is an elite defender and plays so many minutes, why are the Clippers merely an average defensive team? Jordan's fan club will have trouble answering that one.

The Clippers rank just 15th in defensive efficiency this season, slipping from a seventh-place ranking last season. That the Clippers have fallen off defensively this season certainly doesn't bode well for Jordan's standing in the defensive player of the year race after he finished third in the voting in 2013-14.

Further hurting Jordan's cause is that the team's defense has sharpened when he goes to the bench. With Jordan on the floor, the Clippers give up 103.6 points per 100 possessions. When he hits the pine, it improves to 101.7 points per 100 possessions, according to NBA.com. That's not good news, especially considering that his backup is Spencer Hawes. While the Clippers' defense gets stingier when Jordan leaves the floor, just about every DPOY candidate has seen the opposite effect on their team's bottom line.

Rebounding isn't everything

Jordan does have the upper hand in the rebounding column. Since Blake Griffin went out with a staph infection in early February, Jordan has pulled down a ridiculous 18.6 boards per game with 13.2 of those coming on the defensive end. Those are Wilt Chamberlain-type numbers.

In fact, Jordan's 17.2 rebounding average was the highest we've seen in any month (minimum 10 games) since Ben Wallace in 2002-03, when he racked up 18.8 rebounds per game in the month of March. Interestingly enough, Wallace went on to win the defensive player of the year award in a landslide that season, garnering 100 of the 117 first-place votes.

Here's why Jordan probably won't follow Wallace's path: Most of Jordan's glass-cleaning impact is on the offensive end, which doesn't move the needle for his defensive credentials. When Jordan's on the floor, the Clippers recover 25.5 percent of their misses, but that free-falls to an abysmal 15.4 percent when he goes to the bench, according to NBA.com. That's impact.

However, Jordan's defensive rebounding tells a much weaker story. The Clippers' defensive rebounding rate barely moves from 76.4 percent to 74.6 percent when he goes to the bench, indicating that he could be stealing defensive boards from his teammates. Case in point: Griffin averages just seven rebounds per 36 minutes playing next to Jordan this season, but that soars to 10.6 when Griffin plays without him. Chris Paul also shows a similar split (4.8 boards with Jordan vs. 5.6 without Jordan).

Ultimately, Rivers' case for Jordan as defensive player of the year is based more on rhetoric than reason. His high block totals overrate his rim protection, the Clippers aren't a good defensive team and Jordan's monster rebounding output does little to help the team's overall ability to get stops. Jordan's defensive RPM ranks 19th among all centers, which solidifies his standing as a good defensive cog, but far from a serious defensive player of the year candidate.

https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/12457815/why-deandre-jordan-deserve-dpoy-nba-insider-daily

Interesting fact. DAJ had his best seasons after age 25 and a lot of fans here are already writing DA off as a finished product.

I don't think DA will lead the league in rebounding but he's already a far more accomplished scorer than DAJ ever was. Also it's highly debatable that DAJ should have ever been defensive player of the year, sure he had a lot of blocks but if you watched the Clippers back in the day they were never an elite defensive team with DAJ leading the defense.

[Slim Charless]

Great post ^^

Goes to prove my point. DAJ was good at what he did and would be useless in today's game. Ironically enough I think that Joakim Noah would fit well in today's game as he I think can switch significantly better and he also showed he can move the ball as he had a decent assist average during his best years.

I'd consider taking prime Noah over Ayton on this team but absolutely not DAJ.

[lilfishi22]

Different time. Different game. Those numbers mean nothing when in an era everyone is shooting 3 and fouls are called with significantly more often. Also those last couple seasons he skated in on prior opinions of him and due to lack of decent 5's able to get all NBA recognition.

DAJ was all-NBA good for his time. DeAndre is player of the week good in his time

Different time. Different game.

Interesting fact. DAJ had his best seasons after age 25 and a lot of fans here are already writing DA off as a finished product.

I don't think DA will lead the league in rebounding but he's already a far more accomplished scorer than DAJ ever was.

I don't at all believe DAJ is more talented than DA, I'll just start with that. DA has better tools, is more skilled and a significantly more complete player. DA also has time to become a really great C.

DAJ found his niche, he recognised what was going to help him make the most impact towards winning and maximised that. Yes, his game is a lot simpler than DA's but he became a master at a few of those skills that helped him play winning basketball. He became a truly elite rebounder, he became an elite finisher, he became a really good rim protector, and he played his role, really well.

Sure he's not going to be able to defend guys on the perimeter but it's not like DA is some elite defender out there either (he's above average, for a big). Sure, he doesn't have range but it's not like we want our C taking a bunch of midrange shot either. Sure he's one of the worst FT shooters of all time but he got the line so much he made more FT's in prime years in LA than DA has in his career. Sure he's fairly limited as an offensive player but the guy put 70% of his attempts into the basket, making most of his low usage. Basically, he's really really good at those skills that help the team and doesn't deviate much from that.

That's the mindset you ideally want in a C surrounded by the elite talent of Kevin Durant, Devin Booker and Bradley Beal. DA right now is kind of a jack of a bunch of trades but doesn't seem to want to be a master at what he's already good at and could help bring us a title like being an elite finisher, rebounding and defending at an elite level ie what he was doing in the 2021 playoff run. He wants to do other things which we don't necessarily need at the expense of what we really do need him for.

Is it fair to a 25 year old C with his talent? Probably not but the NBA is rarely fair.

[Mulhollanddrive]

My prediction I think we'll be slightly worse on offense and better on defense than 'consensus'.

Offensive Rating - 7th
Defensive Rating - 10th
Record - 52-30 (top 2 seed)

[SunsRback4Good]

My prediction I think we'll be slightly worse on offense and better on defense than 'consensus'.

Offensive Rating - 7th
Defensive Rating - 10th
Record - 52-30 (top 2 seed)

I think we’ll be better on offense but a little worse on defense.

Offensive Rating - 4th
Defensive Rating - 12th
Record - 54-28

Everyone post your predictions to see whose the closest at the end of the season. Thanks Mulhollanddrive

[Mulhollanddrive]

Is this the last season GSW are going contend?

After this season they will lose Paul (and have no Poole), then Curry will turn 37, Thompson and Green 35.

Probably relying on a huge jump from Kuminga (similar to how Leonard extended Duncan, Ginobilli, Parker).

[King4Day]

Is this the last season GSW are going contend?

After this season they will lose Paul (and have no Poole), then Curry will turn 37, Thompson and Green 35.

Probably relying on a huge jump from Kuminga (similar to how Leonard extended Duncan, Ginobilli, Parker).

Unless Kuminga and Moody take big leaps, I think their days of contending are already over.

[SunsRback4Good]

Watch on YouTube

Noooo! I’ll never let go of my lover Deandre Ayton. He should be protected at all costs and his brain should be preserved once he passes away and studied at Harvard University.

[bwgood77]

Why are we doing this

Christ almighty! The whining never ends. Lets see what he does this year. Hopefully he improves back to form on D, even top 10 C would be nice for me. Double doubles with efficiency. I would rather they go to him when he's open but even if he is 10/10 with great D that would be good. Hopefully his shooting gets back to where it was 2 years ago but it should improve from last year, and defense too even without the coach change a consistent lineup helps (though CP3 and Jae helped our defensive with communication)...it will be harder to have an overall good D with Beal/Book/old man KD, but at least Book has improved and KD is a pretty solid defender and our SF/PF (depending on what KD plays) should be a solid defender.

I'd prefer Ayton maybe get about 10 shots, and more when we are missing a star, and avg the 14 or so on 10 shots which would be close to 70% shooting. But even 60% shooting, 10+ boards and 14 is nice to me..that's what he did in 20-21. Maybe closer to 11 boards if he is closer to 35 mpg.

But if he does get the 10/10 surely there will be complaining about that, even with good D. Our D could rank higher with our bench in too, especially if Yuta starts, simply because Okogie, KBD and Goodwin are guarding bench units, but that stat alone is taken without context a lot.

[bwgood77]

My prediction I think we'll be slightly worse on offense and better on defense than 'consensus'.

Offensive Rating - 7th
Defensive Rating - 10th
Record - 52-30 (top 2 seed)

I think we’ll be better on offense but a little worse on defense.

Offensive Rating - 4th
Defensive Rating - 12th
Record - 54-28

Everyone post your predictions to see whose the closest at the end of the season. Thanks Mulhollanddrive

Offensive rating 2nd, Defensive rating 14th

Record is dependent entirely on injuries. Given west depth and everyone having worse records among playoff teams, I will also say 52-30 even if in previous years they would be more like 57-25.

[SlovenianDragon]

Why are we doing this

Christ almighty! The whining never ends. Lets see what he does this year. Hopefully he improves back to form on D, even top 10 C would be nice for me. Double doubles with efficiency. I would rather they go to him when he's open but even if he is 10/10 with great D that would be good. Hopefully his shooting gets back to where it was 2 years ago but it should improve from last year, and defense too even without the coach change a consistent lineup helps (though CP3 and Jae helped our defensive with communication)...it will be harder to have an overall good D with Beal/Book/old man KD, but at least Book has improved and KD is a pretty solid defender and our SF/PF (depending on what KD plays) should be a solid defender.

I'd prefer Ayton maybe get about 10 shots, and more when we are missing a star, and avg the 14 or so on 10 shots which would be close to 70% shooting. But even 60% shooting, 10+ boards and 14 is nice to me..that's what he did in 20-21. Maybe closer to 11 boards if he is closer to 35 mpg.

But if he does get he 10/10 surely there will be complaining about that, even with good D. Our D could rank higher with our bench in too, especially if Yuta starts, simply because Okogie, KBD and Goodwin are guarding bench units, but that stat alone is taken without context a lot.

Theres really no1 else to talk about on this team besides Ayton... And he gave us another reason to talk about him....

Obviously we will talk more about the other players once the season starts up. We have to watch them play...

Everyone on this team is pretty much new besides Ayton and Booker. And Booker is the face of the franchise...

its not suprising Ayton is the only thing being talked about right now. And hes definitely under a microscope next season too.

Im surprised people are shocked that the biggest x-factor and ??? on this team is being talked about.

Maybe people get tired of it but theres really nothing else to talk about.

[Mulhollanddrive]

Any stats on how Ayton performs with starters or bench?

Was thinking of how he and Beal could run the 2nd unit, but my impression is he plays better with better players who can create good shots.