Game 36: Phoenix Suns (12-23) @ Sacramento Kings (12-20)

[kennydorglas]

Adrian Wojnarowski ‏@WojVerticalNBA 5 min
Phoenix looks like a team that fired its defensive coordinator, Mike Longabardi. He'll be in demand this spring. NBA coaches know his value.


hahahahahaha
i'm amazed

[bwgood77]

Damn. We suck.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

Hey, at least we have the Chargers.

[saintEscaton]

We need to re-hire Terry Porter. He'll know what to do. #Nostalgia

[Kerrsed]

8 game losing streak......

[AtheJ415]

The issue is Hornacek is still playing heaps of veterans.

A committed tank coach is someone like Brett Brown and Scott.

Hornacek is desperate to leave Phoenix atleast with a 50/50 win loss record.

Yeah. And what's bothered me about this most is that if you look at the numbers, we win more games with TJ and Booker and Len than the vets ahead of them. It's not even close.

And somebody mentioned earlier that Hornacek, due to the roster and requirement of winning, must guess at a hot hand in the rotation. That to me is nonsense and not really an excuse for Hornacek. He sees these guys play daily. As the head coach, he should know who is better, and if it's close, he should side for the guy with the most upside. It's fairly basic.

Well, that was in regards to Weems and Goodwin, which are basically now both on the bench, so he's probably done the right thing there.

And, about looking at the numbers, and winning more games with young guys, since we have started them both we have zero wins, so that hasn't projected out too well if we are talking wins.

But that's the point, if you can't decide in that scenario, Goodwin should play. If you can't decide between PJ and Warren, Warren should play. How have we sat here and watched Booker and Warren be the hot hand consistently off the bench earlier this year and then mysteriously not play the following games? How can somebody who is a professional coach watch Warren and Booker and not know that they should play over Price and PJ? Or start but then only play like 13 minutes while the guys he sent a message to play 30. Some message sent.

Do you honestly think we win more games over the past like 4 those guys have played if we were sitting Warren and Booker?

[RunDogGun]

Knight will have value to a team looking for scoring and 3pt shooting at the PG slot.

76ers, Magic, Nets etc

He still has value. Nobody loses all value after half a season when they're in their 5th year. Not absent massive injuries.

I just wonder how long we sit here blaming each and every acquisition we make for why they can't perform on this team before we start questioning the scheme, because this goes beyond Knight. We can't find a way to use Chandler to his strengths. Couldn't find a way to use Dragic to his strengths once we added IT. Couldn't find a way to use TJ until **** hit the fan this year even though it's pretty obvious to me he should've seen more minutes this year. Same for Booker. Can't find a way to play defense with a lineup of Chandler, Tucker, Bledsoe, Knight, and Leuer. Knight is the only bad defender of that group. I mean, we have proven guys who can't play on our team once we acquire them.

But our defense looked good at the beginning of the year and the starting lineup was the same, except we had a no effort Morris instead of Leuer. So please explain?

[kennydorglas]

Save us, Thibs.

[thamadkant]

I mentioned this earlier.


I think it was the game when Chandler got injured.

Hornacek shifted from a semi balance style to a shoot-out style.

It seems he decided to put lineups who can get hot and nail the 3pt shots irregardless if they can get defensive stops in the other end.
This is when he was adamant to put 3pt shooters on the court at all cost. Goodwin didnt get much minutes nor Len in some stretches in favor of 4 players on the court who can nail the 3.
Thats also when the Suns became terrible to watch.

Players meaniglessly rotating the ball so that they can jack up shots at will... Thats a coaching direction.


No doubt in my mind a defensive minded coach will find minutes for Weems and Goodwin. Just 7 minutes of these 2 and you can see Kings players needing to do fade aways to get their shots up.. As opposed to before when they shot the ball and driven the lane without hesitation.


Hornacek is desperate.. Desperate to get wins on his resume. Stuck on 99 wins for the last month....

[AtheJ415]

The issue is Hornacek is still playing heaps of veterans.

A committed tank coach is someone like Brett Brown and Scott.

Hornacek is desperate to leave Phoenix atleast with a 50/50 win loss record.

Yeah. And what's bothered me about this most is that if you look at the numbers, we win more games with TJ and Booker and Len than the vets ahead of them. It's not even close.

And somebody mentioned earlier that Hornacek, due to the roster and requirement of winning, must guess at a hot hand in the rotation. That to me is nonsense and not really an excuse for Hornacek. He sees these guys play daily. As the head coach, he should know who is better, and if it's close, he should side for the guy with the most upside. It's fairly basic.

Len has been taking himself out of games with his fouling.

Lately yes, but I'm talking about over the course of the season. There are plenty of games where he's simply not seen minutes and fouling wasn't a reason. If we're going to play Chandler, we should at least use him properly. Playing him over Len and then not using his roll ability is beyond stupid.

[RunDogGun]

Save us, Thibs.

Save us from what, playing young guys that aren't good defenders? I think many are confused about Thibs. If hired, you will see a steady dose of Chandler, Tucker, and Price.

[saintEscaton]

Convince JVG to come out retirement and poach either Walton or Udoka to be associate head coach. But who would want to inherit this smoldering mess?

[AtheJ415]

I mentioned this earlier.


I think it was the game when Chandler got injured.

Hornacek shifted from a semi balance style to a shoot-out style.

It seems he decided to put lineups who can get hot and nail the 3pt shots irregardless if they can get defensive stops in the other end.
This is when he was adamant to put 3pt shooters on the court at all cost. Goodwin didnt get much minutes nor Len in some stretches in favor of 4 players on the court who can nail the 3.
Thats also when the Suns became terrible to watch.

Players meaniglessly rotating the ball so that they can jack up shots at will... Thats a coaching direction.


No doubt in my mind a defensive minded coach will find minutes for Weems and Goodwin. Just 7 minutes of these 2 and you can see Kings players needing to do fade aways to get their shots up.. As opposed to before when they shot the ball and driven the lane without hesitation.


Hornacek is desperate.. Desperate to get wins on his resume. Stuck on 99 wins for the last month....

I noticed that too. The thing is, if you're going to run this 4 corners offense with no movement, while not being able to improve the defense (even before that change, our defense was still bottom of the league), that's the only way you can win. Which is why I think we need a regime change. We can still play with the same pace and push the ball, but utilize a half court set that plays to the strengths of our best players,, and doesn't force our guards to try to do things they are weak at.

[AtheJ415]

Save us, Thibs.

Save us from what, playing young guys that aren't good defenders? I think many are confused about Thibs. If hired, you will see a steady dose of Chandler, Tucker, and Price.

That's why you move all 3 of them. But either way, I'm fine not hiring Thibs. What I'm 100% sure of is we will not win much with Hornacek in charge of the defense. Established, elite defenders don't defend once they join this team.

[RunDogGun]

Yeah. And what's bothered me about this most is that if you look at the numbers, we win more games with TJ and Booker and Len than the vets ahead of them. It's not even close.

And somebody mentioned earlier that Hornacek, due to the roster and requirement of winning, must guess at a hot hand in the rotation. That to me is nonsense and not really an excuse for Hornacek. He sees these guys play daily. As the head coach, he should know who is better, and if it's close, he should side for the guy with the most upside. It's fairly basic.

Len has been taking himself out of games with his fouling.

Lately yes, but I'm talking about over the course of the season. There are plenty of games where he's simply not seen minutes and fouling wasn't a reason. If we're going to play Chandler, we should at least use him properly. Playing him over Len and then not using his roll ability is beyond stupid.

Chandler hasn't been able to complete the roll very often this season, I don't think he has the hops like he once did. Also the play is pretty obvious so other guards and bigs stop the play before it happens. Moreover, Chandler seems to be finally regaining himself after his injury, and again, he was limited earlier so it isn't saying much. Len has been all over the place. He has a beast of a game, and follows it with a game he looks like he has no business playing in. Lately he has been fouling or turning over the ball, which given him a seat on the bench. Hopefully those issues will be ironed out before next season, but right now he just isn't very consistent, as is our whole team.

[AtheJ415]

Knight will have value to a team looking for scoring and 3pt shooting at the PG slot.

76ers, Magic, Nets etc

He still has value. Nobody loses all value after half a season when they're in their 5th year. Not absent massive injuries.

I just wonder how long we sit here blaming each and every acquisition we make for why they can't perform on this team before we start questioning the scheme, because this goes beyond Knight. We can't find a way to use Chandler to his strengths. Couldn't find a way to use Dragic to his strengths once we added IT. Couldn't find a way to use TJ until **** hit the fan this year even though it's pretty obvious to me he should've seen more minutes this year. Same for Booker. Can't find a way to play defense with a lineup of Chandler, Tucker, Bledsoe, Knight, and Leuer. Knight is the only bad defender of that group. I mean, we have proven guys who can't play on our team once we acquire them.

But our defense looked good at the beginning of the year and the starting lineup was the same, except we had a no effort Morris instead of Leuer. So please explain?

At the very, very beginning it did, but it fell off quite a bit since. I would argue that it's a function of small sample size more than most things, and also the fact that he hadn't lost the team yet.

[bwgood77]

Knight will have value to a team looking for scoring and 3pt shooting at the PG slot.

76ers, Magic, Nets etc

He still has value. Nobody loses all value after half a season when they're in their 5th year. Not absent massive injuries.

I just wonder how long we sit here blaming each and every acquisition we make for why they can't perform on this team before we start questioning the scheme, because this goes beyond Knight. We can't find a way to use Chandler to his strengths. Couldn't find a way to use Dragic to his strengths once we added IT. Couldn't find a way to use TJ until **** hit the fan this year even though it's pretty obvious to me he should've seen more minutes this year. Same for Booker. Can't find a way to play defense with a lineup of Chandler, Tucker, Bledsoe, Knight, and Leuer. Knight is the only bad defender of that group. I mean, we have proven guys who can't play on our team once we acquire them.

Well, it seems that most here would rather see Hornacek go, so I think plenty of people are questioning that. Of general fans in polls I saw on az central, is was bout 50/50. The general board here had a thread about everyone thinking he has gotten a raw deal with ever changing roster, bad trades, FO making players disgruntled, etc.

I don't think it's real easy to point a finger at any one person (except Kieff). There are all sorts of problems, but starting and playing our young guys a lot tonight didn't show that we can win with them. If you think tonight's rotations came down to coaching fine. The Bledsoe loss is clearly hurting us (despite that we were playing badly without him).

[RunDogGun]

Save us, Thibs.

Save us from what, playing young guys that aren't good defenders? I think many are confused about Thibs. If hired, you will see a steady dose of Chandler, Tucker, and Price.

That's why you move all 3 of them. But either way, I'm fine not hiring Thibs. What I'm 100% sure of is we will not win much with Hornacek in charge of the defense. Established, elite defenders don't defend once they join this team.

So the incoming coach has no defenders to work with? Why take that job?

Which established defenders are you referring to?

[bwgood77]

We need to re-hire Terry Porter. He'll know what to do. #Nostalgia

Why didn't he just appoint himself as coach, like I think Pop did back in the day he was a GM and fired Bob Hill. That worked out well for them. Maybe it would have for us as well, if Sarver allowed it to happen.

[AtheJ415]

Len has been taking himself out of games with his fouling.

Lately yes, but I'm talking about over the course of the season. There are plenty of games where he's simply not seen minutes and fouling wasn't a reason. If we're going to play Chandler, we should at least use him properly. Playing him over Len and then not using his roll ability is beyond stupid.

Chandler hasn't been able to complete the roll very often this season, I don't think he has the hops like he once did. Also the play is pretty obvious so other guards and bigs stop the play before it happens. Moreover, Chandler seems to be finally regaining himself after his injury, and again, he was limited earlier so it isn't saying much. Len has been all over the place. He has a beast of a game, and follows it with a game he looks like he has no business playing in. Lately he has been fouling or turning over the ball, which given him a seat on the bench. Hopefully those issues will be ironed out before next season, but right now he just isn't very consistent, as is our whole team.

Some of the passes are off to him, but I think most of it is that we don't have 4 shooters in our 4 corners offense, and so there's always a help defender. It's a function of our whacky rotations that have infested this season. Hornacek goes all offense or all defense at times, and so Tyson is in a lot with the all-defensive unit (Price and Tucker). That makes it really easy to sink in to prevent the lob. We still get a few a game, but that's because Tyson is constantly looking for it because he knows he can't play offense otherwise. I'd like to see him play more with Tele at the 4, which would more closely mirror the looks he got with Dirk there.

Len is very up and down, but that's to be expected with a 22 year old big, particularly one who goes in and out of the starting lineup, even after monster games.

[bwgood77]

Convince JVG to come out retirement and poach either Walton or Udoka to be associate head coach. But who would want to inherit this smoldering mess?

Why would associate head coaches for two of the best teams in nba history (ok, I don't know Udoka's official title, but whatever he is), leave to be an associate coach of this dysfunctional organization?