Draft Thread Part 2

[Mulhollanddrive]

We are big on players who compete and push themselves in our workouts.

McLemore was the biggest flunk.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

I personally don't get the obsession with drafting a PF.

The same obsession led to Frank Kaminsky mania for 3 months from this time last year.

I eventually came to the conclusion that while Murray is BPA after Simmons/Ingram, Ellenson isn't very far behind - if at all. So things just fell into place.

If players are close, choose the one that meets the need. That said, Ellenson just doesn't impress me. He is slow footed, heavy legged, I don't know how to describe it.

I think you describe it perfectly. But despite these things, he averages more steals and blocks than Sabonis - fewer than Chriss, though. Of those three, rebounding advantage goes Sabonis > Ellenson > Chriss. Deyonta has better block numbers than any of them, and rebounds about as well as Sabonis, but he gets no steals, despite the fact that he's shown an ability to switch onto small forwards. Of course, if we want all of steals + blocks + rebounds, that guy is Brice Johnson. Of all these guys, Sabonis, Johnson and Davis have been winners at the collegiate level, while Ellenson and Chriss have not. If we're awarding bonus points for highlight plays, Johnson, Davis and Chriss get those. Ellenson and Chriss can create their own offense and stretch the floor. Sabonis may develop into a stretch 4 in the sense that Leuer is a stretch 4 - a guy who needs time, but who can keep defenses honest. Sabonis wlll do most of his damage inside. Ellenson and Chriss will operate mostly from midrange, though Ellenson may have the best combo of inside/outside offense. Johnson and Davis appear to be primarily finishers, but all of these guys have shown the ability to post up and hit the midrange J.

Ellenson and Chriss won't likely be available at #13. Davis and Sabonis may. Johnson likely will. We can't double up on PFs, though, can we? Of these guys, I don't see anyone sliding over to the 3, though Sabonis, Ellenson, Davis and Johnson could all slide to the 5. Heck, Ellenson may be best at the 5 due to his slow feet and long wingspan. Marquese is a pure 4 and the most likely to be a functional stretch big in the NBA. From a physical standpoint, Johnson and Chriss have elite leaping ability. Ellenson has an elite physical profile, but no leaping ability. Sabonis has elite strength. Davis is the only one with all of elite strength, physical profile and leaping ability.

IDK. Anyone who thinks this is easy sees things I don't.

[carey]

My mock, as of today:

4. Phoenix - H. Ellenson

13. Phoenix - T. Ulis

I'd be really disappointed if we walked away from this horrid season with Ellenson and Ulis. Not that I have a huge problem with either, but I'd hope for a much larger talent upgrade than that after suffering through one of the worst seasons in franchise history.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

My mock, as of today:

4. Phoenix - H. Ellenson

13. Phoenix - T. Ulis

I'd be really disappointed if we walked away from this horrid season with Ellenson and Ulis. Not that I have a huge problem with either, but I'd hope for a much larger talent upgrade than that after suffering through one of the worst seasons in franchise history.

I don't know what to say. Seems like we only tank in horrible draft years. Maybe we'll take Bender or Chriss on upside alone.

[lilfishi22]

We are big on players who compete and push themselves in our workouts.

McLemore was the biggest flunk.

It's really too bad with BMac. He had so much talent, he had above average NBA athleticism and he had a beatiful jump shot. He was my pick that year and boy am I glad McD had the foresight to let him fall past #5.

That said, it was a very disappointing draft from a top-5 talent standpoint.

[Krush32]

I think we get blinded by athleticism alot of times. Knowing how to play the game right is very underrated. Most highlights reels show amazing open court dunks but being able to get a high percentage shot or create a high percentage shot is better. You can get someone with amazing athleticism and a jumpshot but has a terrible shot selection. Thats the amazing thing about Devin Booker....he has the shot selection of a 10 yr veteran and takes high percentage shots.

Btw, someone who is really underrated is Jared Uthoff. Dude has skills.

[Mulhollanddrive]

Top 5 Win Shares by position and seeing how the top 10 draft prospects match up in terms of prototype:

PG - Curry, Westbrook, Paul, Lowry, Walker
SG - Harden, DeRozen, Butler, Thompson, Redick
SF - Durant, Leonard, James, George, Hayward
PF - Green, Aldridge, Millsap, Thompson, Love
C - Jordan, Whiteside, Horford, Towns, Kanter

PG - Kris Dunn. Would be the athletic PG prototype as a poor man's Westbrook, rather than having the skill and IQ of the others. With only really 1 PG of that type being an exception, it would be difficult to see Dunn being similarly transcendent enough to overcome other areas of his game to get into this bracket.

SG - Buddy Hield, Jamal Murray. The majority of the guards have the exact same traits as these 2 with their shooting and decision making, so they have the right skill set and wouldn't appear to need to overcome worries about athleticism or size. So having your strengths determine your ceiling seems a much better deal than having to improve things that don't exist already at a lower level. Perhaps you could argue length could be an issue, as Thompson, Butler, Derozen are all longer, while Harden and Redick might have a bit more x-factor in what they do specifically.

SF - Brandon Ingram, Jaylen Brown. If you want to pick for athletic freak type specimans this is the position to do it, and it favours both Ingram and Brown for their length and athleticism. My question mark is their character / workrate though as it's a position where you may not be the best natural basketballer and need to improve by repetition. But looking at the top guys in this exercise, it would make me feel more comfortable with Ingram especially as I think he has similar traits and probably higher raw ability than some in that group. Brown doesn't quite match up in terms of length of those guys, and has lesser skills, so a not quite matching the level when looking looking at that group.

PF - Ben Simmons, Dragan Bender, Marquese Chriss, Henry Ellenson. This position is where it looks to be strength and skills based, rather than with athletic freaks. That worries me with Bender and Chriss as they might be sexy athletic prospects but have severe deficiencies in key areas of basketball ability. We know Simmons is unique, so could make himself an exception like Green does on that list. Ellenson probably jumps into calculations and makes you feel more comfortable if basing off this exercise, as he fits with other guys like Aldridge, Millsap, Love who play a very similar game.

C - Jakob Poeltl. This position is where you'd look to pick an athletic freak as well, but Poeltl doesn't have that athleticism and probably not the level of shooting range of a Horford or Kanter, though he'd probably be closer to them than Jordan or Whiteside. Hard to see him ending up anywhere close to those guys.

TLDR: Hield, Murray, Ingram, Ellenson look more favourable when seeing what traits turn you into a top 5 player at your position.

[carey]

It's really too bad with BMac. He had so much talent, he had above average NBA athleticism and he had a beatiful jump shot. He was my pick that year and boy am I glad McD had the foresight to let him fall past #5.

That said, it was a very disappointing draft from a top-5 talent standpoint.

He was my pick as well. I was stunned when he was there and we didn't pull the trigger. FWIW, I still think he is salvageable as a player. He needs to get out of Sacramento, but that can be said for a lot of players on the Kings.

[Years90Suns]

We can say all we whant agains Kaminsky, but he ended up being a starter in a PO caliber team that pushed the Heat to the seventh. He did not do great things, but he is a PF who can play C and can shoot the 3, which a really added value.

That said, I do not believe we need to focus too much on who we draft by position. Obviously we need a PF, but anybody oicked now will be a good or bad player at least three years from now. So we need to draft a PF and the best possible player with the second pick. O r the other way around.

Anyway, although it seems a contradiction, I would go with Bender and Maker. And also I would no doubt resign Teletovic and would let Leuer go, although I like the guy.

Len and Maker and Bender can shared the court, and also Chandler can share the court with any of them.

We should not forget that we have Goodwin, Booker and probably Bogdanovic at the SG position. We have Bledsoe and Knight, both still young.
We have Warren.
May be we should pick a SF in this draft, but I cannot think of any.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

We can say all we whant agains Kaminsky, but he ended up being a starter in a PO caliber team that pushed the Heat to the seventh. He did not do great things, but he is a PF who can play C and can shoot the 3, which a really added value.

That said, I do not believe we need to focus too much on who we draft by position. Obviously we need a PF, but anybody oicked now will be a good or bad player at least three years from now. So we need to draft a PF and the best possible player with the second pick. O r the other way around.

Anyway, although it seems a contradiction, I would go with Bender and Maker. And also I would no doubt resign Teletovic and would let Leuer go, although I like the guy.

Len and Maker and Bender can shared the court, and also Chandler can share the court with any of them.

We should not forget that we have Goodwin, Booker and probably Bogdanovic at the SG position. We have Bledsoe and Knight, both still young.
We have Warren.
May be we should pick a SF in this draft, but I cannot think of any.

No reason to take Maker over Labissiere. IMO, no reason to take Maker in the first round.

[Waylay13]

TLDR: Hield, Murray, Ingram, Ellenson look more favourable when seeing what traits turn you into a top 5 player at your position.

Ingram looks good for the Suns, Hield and Murray look to be promising players but they are not better then what we already have at the spot. Ellenson doesnt look like a Suns type player at all. He is slow, cant jump and has short arms. I would be up for Davis, Chriss or even Brice Johnson (who some mocks are putting at the end of the first round) over Ellenson.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

TLDR: Hield, Murray, Ingram, Ellenson look more favourable when seeing what traits turn you into a top 5 player at your position.

Ingram looks good for the Suns, Hield and Murray look to be promising players but they are not better then what we already have at the spot. Ellenson doesnt look like a Suns type player at all. He is slow, cant jump and has short arms. I would be up for Davis, Chriss or even Brice Johnson (who some mocks are putting at the end of the first round) over Ellenson.

Ellenson has short arms? News to me. I also think it's worth mentioning that he has a helluva frame - could put a ton of muscle on those enormous shoulders of his.

[saintEscaton]

Ellenson has a wide base with better measurables than Chriss/Sabonis but he right now he is total turnstile on the other end. As a post defender he gets backed down too easily, lacks the functional strength to holds his own and offers virtually no rim protection. Also doen't have the footspeed to close out Stretch 4s in the perimeter. I think he's a small 5 after filling out.Offensively he is too trigger happy and doesn't pick his spots to his strengths, rarely takes high percentages shots. He is at his best facing up a the elbows or taking treys from the top of the key and has some ability to put the ball on the deck

[Mulhollanddrive]

McDonough won't draft Ellenson, not his type.

But if you look at the likes of Aldridge, Gasol, Love, Millsap they are also heavy body type shooters, so it doesn't seem to be a hinderence, although Ellenson may even be a bit slower than those guys.

I can't wait for the lottery and combine and workouts to start.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

McDonough won't draft Ellenson, not his type.

Isn't his type young and unathletic?

In all honesty, though, it sure would be nice to draft some defense.

[Saberestar]

I would sign right now to get out of the Draft with Brandon Ingram (#2 with some luck), Tyler Ulis (#13) and Maker (#28).

I can't wait for the lottery...I want to know where are gonna pick already.

[thamadkant]

We can say all we whant agains Kaminsky, but he ended up being a starter in a PO caliber team that pushed the Heat to the seventh. He did not do great things, but he is a PF who can play C and can shoot the 3, which a really added value.

That said, I do not believe we need to focus too much on who we draft by position. Obviously we need a PF, but anybody oicked now will be a good or bad player at least three years from now. So we need to draft a PF and the best possible player with the second pick. O r the other way around.

Anyway, although it seems a contradiction, I would go with Bender and Maker. And also I would no doubt resign Teletovic and would let Leuer go, although I like the guy.

Len and Maker and Bender can shared the court, and also Chandler can share the court with any of them.

We should not forget that we have Goodwin, Booker and probably Bogdanovic at the SG position. We have Bledsoe and Knight, both still young.
We have Warren.
May be we should pick a SF in this draft, but I cannot think of any.

No reason to take Maker over Labissiere. IMO, no reason to take Maker in the first round.

I would reserve that judgement post work outs.

Maker looked terrible against Skal in their "post" work out, but both are perhaps NOT ideal post players.

I'd wait to see how he does in the measurements and 5 on 5 full court work outs to write him off.

Giannis and other raw players can rapidly improve.

[DirtyDez]

If staying at #4 and Simmons, Ingram and Bender go top-3 I'm not sure they can reach for Chriss over Hield even though it's a need. Buddy would create some issues with the current personel. Bogdan would need to get time at the 3 and Warren at the 4. I suppose TJ or PJ could get dealt but Warren is young (and cheap) with excellent scoring potential and the fact they didn't trade Tucker at the deadline is significant IMO.

Looking at team right behind us I think they could target Denver as a trade back partner for Hield. Mudiay with Harris/Buddy would be a nice start for their backcourt. Compensation?

[saintEscaton]

Luwawu could have the most volatile stock, could go anywhere from the early lotto to slipping out of the first round entirely

[lilfishi22]

It's really too bad with BMac. He had so much talent, he had above average NBA athleticism and he had a beatiful jump shot. He was my pick that year and boy am I glad McD had the foresight to let him fall past #5.

That said, it was a very disappointing draft from a top-5 talent standpoint.

He was my pick as well. I was stunned when he was there and we didn't pull the trigger. FWIW, I still think he is salvageable as a player. He needs to get out of Sacramento, but that can be said for a lot of players on the Kings.

I thought he was a lock for top 5 pick. I too believe he's salvageable. But he'll need to be in the perfect situation for that to happen.