2016 Draft Thread Part 4

[OGBAH]

Bender or Hield 4th
Ellenson or Skal 13th

As of right now I think that's what I want

[NTB]

Bender or Hield 4th
Ellenson or Skal 13th

As of right now I think that's what I want

Chriss or Bender
Ellenson or Skal

[bwgood77]

...for only 1 out of 4 seasons...he was very 'average' his Sophomore/Junior seasons, and 'below average' his Freshman season.

So go ahead and 'shut-down' any further discussion on Hield, but he's not 'Superman' and 'choked' pretty hard on the biggest stage of his career against Villanova in the Final Four. He has 'holes' in his game, just like a lot of other prospects. His defense is 'meh' his PPR and A/TO declined EVERY YEAR--his worst overall season as a Freshman was his BEST season for those metrics. His A/TO, from Freshman to Senior went: 1.14, 1.03, .99, .66 ; his PPR went -1.62, -1.80, -2.10, -4.85.

And it was noted yesterday, I think by Ford, that history is not on Hield's side for success in the NBA for those that were average players, then suddenly had one outlier season. When your TS% and eFG% go from .55 and .51 respectively, in his Junior Season, to .67 and .62 as a Senior--that is an outlier, and not one I personally am taking stock in, in being an accurate reflection of how he'll perform in the NBA.

So I'm not sure why you feel that Hield is a 'can't miss prospect' and will be the BPA at 4 when we pick, but it's not a 'slam-dunk' case for Hield.

Hield was also a BEAST as a HS Senior. Not great his first three years in HS, but by the time he is one of the oldest and most experienced guys on the floor he can DOMINATE! I expect based on this trend, that by the time he is an elder statesman in the league, if he lasts, he will feast on the youngens coming in! Can't wait! Dude's a baller.

So what you are saying is that if we draft Hield, we can expect for him to BALL-OUT in our '19-'20 season...cool. By then, We'll have pissed off Booker somehow, and he'll go play for another team, allowing Hield to 'dominate' in that season for our SG position. OK, I'm patient. Good thing drafting the Senior will make us competitive sooner than Bender or Chriss...

Well in that scenario, HS and college, he exploded when he was one of the oldest guys on the floor, dominating people who hadn't had all that college experience. Even in the 4th year in the NBA, you are still relatively young. Anyway, I was pretty much making a joke and perhaps he is a key contributor right away. Though I guess according to what rsavaj just posted, among nba scouts, he ranks in tier 4, so for whatever reason they are not as high on him as the others.

[LukasBMW]

Interesting that the Lakers are still looking at guys in our ranges (#4 + #13).

I really really really wonder if there is trade set up contingent on Simmons going #1. If Simmons goes to Philly as expected, do the Lakers not fully believe in Ingram and are they ready to swap #2 for #4 and #13 so they can snag Buddy/Brown and a PF?

I bet this trade is called off if Simmons is still on the board.

I'm all aboard the Chriss hype train @#4, and I also like the idea of snagging another PF @#13, but I'll take Ingram all day over two lottery picks.

[LukasBMW]

It's a shame that Washington didn't lose a few more games. Having pick #10 or #11 would be nice right now. I bet someone falls to #10,#11, or even #12 that will be totally unexpected. But by the time we pick @#13, I think it will be a few picks too late.

Does Bender drop all the way to us at #13? If he does, do we take him?

[jcsunsfan]

It's a shame that Washington didn't lose a few more games. Having pick #10 or #11 would be nice right now. I bet someone falls to #10,#11, or even #12 that will be totally unexpected. But by the time we pick @#13, I think it will be a few picks too late.

Does Bender drop all the way to us at #13? If he does, do we take him?

No, and yes.

[Saberestar]

Told that Buddy Hield had a 40-inch vertical today in his Lakers workout.

https://mobile.twitter.com/GoodmanESPN/status/744284035489357824

[SunsFanSSOL]

Chad Ford saying D'Angelo Russell may be available for another top pick (the Lakers have a lot of interest in Brown, Hield and Chriss). I'd probably trade #4 + something else for Russell given how young he is and his relationship with Booker.

[rsavaj]

Chad Ford saying D'Angelo Russell may be available for another top pick (the Lakers have a lot of interest in Brown, Hield and Chriss). I'd probably trade #4 + something else for Russell given how young he is and his relationship with Booker.

same, I like D'Lo a lot better than any non-Bender prospect at that pick

D'Lo/Booker is a backcourt pairing you can build around. Would allow you to move Bledsoe or Knight for some frontcourt help.

[RaisingArizona]

Chad Ford saying D'Angelo Russell may be available for another top pick (the Lakers have a lot of interest in Brown, Hield and Chriss). I'd probably trade #4 + something else for Russell given how young he is and his relationship with Booker.

13+28+Knight? Idk if that's not enough or too much to give up but I'd consider it to go with the youth movement.

[thamadkant]

I would trade pick 4 for D'Angelo Russell for sure...


That means Knight and Bledsoe are out though...

Maybe trade both for Cousins. Kings owner wants to run and gun i heard.

[8on]

besides Archie Goodwin and Ronnie Price, or the 28th pick, there is not a player on our roster that i would trade for Russell. he has been not good on the court, and problematic off it. we've had enough locker room problems for one decade....

(for reference: if you have about as many good games in a year as Derrick Rose, that makes you one of the worst heavy minute playing point guards in the league. he's not a great shooter, he's not that athletic. huge risk, very little to be certain of. not worth it to me.)

[JMac1]

So the Lakers are throwing out the trash and some here want to pay the Lakers to pick it up?

[NavLDO]

Bottomline, to argue against Hield is ludicrous (Speed). I am not going back an forth about Buddy. He is a baller, period!

...for only 1 out of 4 seasons...he was very 'average' his Sophomore/Junior seasons, and 'below average' his Freshman season.

So go ahead and 'shut-down' any further discussion on Hield, but he's not 'Superman' and 'choked' pretty hard on the biggest stage of his career against Villanova in the Final Four. He has 'holes' in his game, just like a lot of other prospects. His defense is 'meh' his PPR and A/TO declined EVERY YEAR--his worst overall season as a Freshman was his BEST season for those metrics. His A/TO, from Freshman to Senior went: 1.14, 1.03, .99, .66 ; his PPR went -1.62, -1.80, -2.10, -4.85.

And it was noted yesterday, I think by Ford, that history is not on Hield's side for success in the NBA for those that were average players, then suddenly had one outlier season. When your TS% and eFG% go from .55 and .51 respectively, in his Junior Season, to .67 and .62 as a Senior--that is an outlier, and not one I personally am taking stock in, in being an accurate reflection of how he'll perform in the NBA.

So I'm not sure why you feel that Hield is a 'can't miss prospect' and will be the BPA at 4 when we pick, but it's not a 'slam-dunk' case for Hield.

I never EVER said he was a can't miss. I want to pick him at four, so that means he is a can't miss? You want to pick someone else and that means what?

He is a baller 1 out of 4 season or whatever. The guy can ball.

You're right, you didn't, but you've indicated you've shutdown any further conversation, or even entertaining that any other prospect available at 4 is on the level of Hield with the way you worded your statements. They are ALL ballers--Chriss, Ellenson, Bender, Dunn, Davis, Skal, etc., etc. But each have their weaknesses as well.

Why, pray tell, is it 'ludicrous' to argue against Hield? To me, that sounds an awfully lot like he's the 'clear-cut' best prospect, and I'm sorry, but that is just an opinion, not a statement of absolute truth. Hield 'choked' in the Final Four--4/12 shooting, 1/8 from 3. If he's such a 'baller', why didn't he dominate that game?? I'm going overboard here, and do not believe for a minute that a player can be defined by ONE game--good or bad--only that he does have flaws, and maybe he's not at his best on the 'big stage'??

IDK, again, just speculating, but I'd feel better about selecting Brice Johnson, who is also a senior, also played in the Final Four, played in the Finals, and had 14 pts on 6/10 shooting, 2/3 FTs, 8 TRBs, and a block. Or his Final Four game against Syracuse with 16 pts on 6/11 shooting, 4/6 FTs, 9 TRBs, and a Block. He averaged 19pts/9.3 TRBs throughout the tournament. THAT is a baller...

Or how about Marcus Paige SG-turned-PG-prospect. Biggest stage of his career his final two games, and all he did was:

vs. Syracuse--13pts, 5/11 shooting, 3/7 from 3PT, 2 TRBs, 3 Assts, 1 BLK, 1 STL

vs. Villanova--21pts, 7/17 shooting, 4/7 from 3PT, 5 TRBs, 6 Assts, 1 STL

...in fact, he was 20/41 from 3 throughout the entire tournament play, as opposed to Hield who was 20/48 (19/40 before Final 4 game)

...so why isn't Marcus Paige a 'Baller'?? Excellent career A/TO and PPR numbers. A 38.2% 3PT% through his first 3 years, compared to Hield's 34.9% 3PT%. Or his 86.7% FT% vs Hield's 81.3% FT%.

My point in all this drivel is that Hield had a spectacular year; no one is arguing that. But to base a prospect upon one year's worth of statistics, when the other 3 seasons were very 'average', to me, is a 'red flag'. Basing a prospect's value for a Freshman is darn near impossible, for similar reasons. But if I'm picking 4th overall, and I look at Hield, and while the evidence is not the most recent, it's still there, that Hield was 'average' for 3 years, then spectacular for 1 year, I would proceed extremely cautiously. I'd want to know what happened between his Junior and Senior year. Did the coach see a level of dedication, 'hunger', and commitment to bettering himself, and thus, accomplished just that. Or did the coach see similar preparation levels, desire, etc., and the player just happened to start off hot and 'rode the wave', as it were; basically, was it just a confidence thing. And if so, what happens when he comes into the league and now is facing 25, 28, 30 YO NBA players instead of 'beating up' on 18/19 YO young'ns, or 'yutes'. What happens when he loses that confidence. Does he have the ability to overcome that adversity?

He basically had 3 of 5 good games in the tournament; will he only show up 60% of the time when the 'lights are the brightest'?

Point blank--a prospect like Hield scares the bejesus out of me, especially at 4th overall. I'd rather try my luck with a young, impressionable guy like Chriss, Ellenson, Bender, etc. One I can 'mold', not one who feels they've already 'arrived' or has it all figured out like Dunn is demonstrating. Hield, not so much, but still, that situation scares me more than taking a guy with high upside. It's a personal preference. I'm not saying the way I'm viewing it is the correct way to look at it, but at 4th overall, I want the 'upside' guy; at 13, we can take the 'higher floor' type prospect.

[SunsFanSSOL]

I don't know why there is so much Hield discussion. Stop trying to make Hield happen, it's not gonna happen.

[rsavaj]

I don't know why there is so much Hield discussion. Stop trying to make Hield happen, it's not gonna happen.

can we still try to make "fetch" happen though?

[JMac1]

For such a weak draft why are teams trying to trade Okafor and Russell to get a pick in this draft? Answer:

Dunn, Brown, Chriss and Bender are possible two way players and Hield is a shooting star!

[SunsFanSSOL]

I don't know why there is so much Hield discussion. Stop trying to make Hield happen, it's not gonna happen.

can we still try to make "fetch" happen though?

Drafting Buddy Hield is so not fetch.

[SunsFanSSOL]

For such a weak draft why are teams trying to trade Okafor and Russell to get a pick in this draft? Answer:

Dunn, Brown, Chriss and Bender are possible two way players and Hield is a shooting star!

Maybe it has something to do with this....

Okafor:

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1F5ZQvWVloU[/youtube]

Russell:

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFcEVxyq4cA[/youtube]

[JMac1]

I don't know why there is so much Hield discussion. Stop trying to make Hield happen, it's not gonna happen.

Hmmmm....because he is more athletic and bigger than people thought? 6'5 214 with a 6'10 wingspan. And 40inch vert?!