2022-23 Season Discussion and Review - the Blockbuster trade and playoff downfall

[King4Day]

Why would you sit players? Are they ailing or something? Do you not think they are fit enough to play in b2bs? I guess I can maybe see an argument for Paul if you don't think his body can handle it at this age but he probably thinks he can. But Ayton and Book are 24 and 26.

I generally hate load management though if that is what you are getting at. Maybe for someone like KD who seems to have a lot higher chance of injury. But he would want to play too if he could.

I think everyone needs to be playing and tuning up for the playoffs. We seemed to rest some down the stretch last year and I think it may have had a negative impact.

As mentioned, just a vent post. They don’t need to rest but if they come out with the same lack of effort and looking like they’re running around like they don’t know what they’re doing or have a plan, then don’t waste anyone’s time tonight.

We lost because GS hit 19 3s and we hit 4. We shot poorly from deep and will never win with shooting like that (or very rarely). I imagine if we would have played the exact same game but instead of 4-21 from 2, we were 8-21 from 3, and won by 1, you wouldn't feel there was a lack of effort or plan. Bad shooting isn't a plan, even though we really don't have the 3 pt shooters in our lineup anymore with Okogie and Craig in there instead of Mikal and Cam (when KD's out).

Missing shots is one thing but being on our heels the whole game is something else. Offense hasn’t looked right since kd went down.
We don’t have the talent to keep up with good teams and our bench, which should still be solid with Warren and Ross, isn’t good

[bigfoot]

Please tell me we have trade options for deyawndre this summer

[lonea]

Please tell me we have trade options for deyawndre this summer

i kinda wish suns wouldve sign lamarcus alridge, at least he makes his midrange shots consistently

[kennydorglas]

Please tell me we have trade options for deyawndre this summer

not sure who would be dumb enough to pick him up but lets pray.

[PittsburghSuns]

The KD layup line injury completely ruined our season. I guess that’s what happens when you give up the farm for a guy who has become fragile as glass.

Even though CP3 is like dragging a corpse around the court would have been fun to see what this team could have done. Suns fans don’t deserve nice things ever for some basketball God reasoning.

[Saberestar]

Warrios against Clippers tomorrow, one will lose for sure.

We just need to get a win here or there to stay 6th at worst, if we keep winning regularly we are gonna be 4th and we will have home court advantage in the first round.

Next game against the Magic is a must win. Not an easy game because their young players are really good and they won our last marchup...but they have lost depth (Bamba, Hampton and Ross) since then.

[Saberestar]

The KD layup line injury completely ruined our season. I guess that’s what happens when you give up the farm for a guy who has become fragile as glass.

Even though CP3 is like dragging a corpse around the court would have been fun to see what this team could have done. Suns fans don’t deserve nice things ever for some basketball God reasoning.

Could have done??? KD will be back in two weeks, he didn't die in a crash plane, come on.

[lilfishi22]

The KD layup line injury completely ruined our season. I guess that’s what happens when you give up the farm for a guy who has become fragile as glass.

Even though CP3 is like dragging a corpse around the court would have been fun to see what this team could have done. Suns fans don’t deserve nice things ever for some basketball God reasoning.

Could have done??? KD will be back in two weeks, he didn't die in a crash plane, come on.

[grumpysaddle]

The KD layup line injury completely ruined our season. I guess that’s what happens when you give up the farm for a guy who has become fragile as glass.

Even though CP3 is like dragging a corpse around the court would have been fun to see what this team could have done. Suns fans don’t deserve nice things ever for some basketball God reasoning.

There's still a month left. It hasn't ruined anything, yet.

[grumpysaddle]

Same people panicking and saying the KD trade ruined the franchise will be the first to be cocky and annoying if the Suns win it all (... because they traded for KD)

[Fo-Real]

We need a big off our bench to come in and be an actual threat to get hot shooting. Teams know Craig or Ish can hit one or two but THERE US NO NEED to adjust to them, it won't carry much longer. So defenses can still focus on denying low passes to ayton and blitzing Book by sagging off. I still might cut Bazley and bring Carmelo in
Call me crazy but I'm pretty sure he is still a dangerous shooter. Knock his defense but we aint stopping anyone anyway.

[King4Day]

Regardless how this season ends, I fully expect us to go after cheap 3&D guys this summer. And perhaps another shooting big. Someone to replace Biz.

[garrick]

We should have just kept Dario for his perimeter shooting since Bazley isn't getting any playing time and Ross is a complete turnstile on defense he is almost unplayable if he isn't on fire from 3.

Not sure why we even trade for him to save on a couple million dollars this season, I thought Ishbia said money wasn't a concern?

[King4Day]

Please tell me we have trade options for deyawndre this summer

I think there will be and if we don't win it all this year, moving him might cause the team to make another big splash. Will be interesting to see how the offseason is approached.

[lonea]

Please tell me we have trade options for deyawndre this summer

I think there will be and if we don't win it all this year, moving him might cause the team to make another big splash. Will be interesting to see how the offseason is approached.

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/270813/Mitchell-Robinson-Unhappy-About-Role-With-Knicks

knicks is that dumb organization

[POLI]

No issues with disagreements man or differing perspectives. It's just that high tops ( in addition to), proper taping ( preventative measures) help minimize the likelihood of rolling your ankles as prominently. I know that you disagree on this which is fine. But I've also played quite a lot of basketball over the last couple of decades and even in my younger years playing in high level situations, tournaments and fast paced very physical play. So even though I'd agree with you wholeheartedly on strengthening exercises etc being and important preventative measure, from my personal experience and I'm sure the consensus opinion would be that high tops would provide more additional structural assistive support.

I used to tape up and wear a sleeve occasionally with my high tops and it provided significant support. Whenever I did wear low tops, it allowed my foot to turn with more range. But by the same measure, it also allowed my ankle to flex in awkward ranges and positions more frequently too. Not sure of the consensus opinions these days. But I'd for my part much rather have the additional support. And hope to minimize the possibilities of turning an ankle if at all possible.

Twisting an ankle (or not) has much more to do with physical preparation and genetics.
I just had an ankle issue while playing basketball endlessly in my teens, 20s and 30s, and it was on a drinking night (when my cognitive system and prioception were in minimum levels), compared to the level of awareness you are supposed to bear at basketball games.
I am against all additional, artificial help, as I believe the human body has all it needs to avoid getting injured.
Even tape around the ankles causes a reduction on blood circulation and diminishes ligaments' work and strength. No tape in the world is going to make uo for the work of your short ligaments around and among the bones in your feet.

But I understand that mental security is an issue, like placebo, and there are people who cannot bear feeling unprotected.

It is a similar situation that the one with people using a knee protection for running or playing basketball, even years after the issue was solved. They are not letting their muscles and ligaments get back to normal. But it is impossible that they listen to you to stop doing that.

For sure there's a fair argument to be made for natural strengthening and adaptitivity in those situations engaging all supportive muscle groups preventatively. But some studies have shown that even beyond the mental support aspects of additional support to feel more secure, that having the presence of those additional support measures actually engages the proprioceptive adaptivity of those muscle groups in a preventative context. As in wearing the braces or taping offers a level of additional reactionary support to those surrounding muscle groups keeping them more readily engaged and facilitating those surrounding muscle groups towards preventing ankle inversion injuries.

So there's actually duality in purpose to taping and/ or bracing beyond just the " security blanket " effect it provides by increasing focused proprioceptive engagement of those supportive muscle groups of the ankle. The counter argument to that is the additional support for that premise can also be restrictive to free range movement in static/ dynamic situations to the effect of putting ( redirecting) additional resulting pressure to another area that may increase potential for injury such as Achilles, perroneus, knee, hamstring, etc depending upon the area of restriction.

The best preventative measures are as you and SSOL have already mentioned, to strengthen and promote these supportive muscle groups in training preparation and physiological advancement with help of the training staff, etc. But this premise of taping, bracing, custom orthotics, supportive equipment becomes much more relevant for those players that (specifically) need them that have prior injuries, weaknesses in those areas and seek assistive support to offset those weaknesses and concerns prior to full recovery or sustainable strengthening measures.

Interesting.
I had no idea about that.
But it reminded me of the fact that taping a muscle (shoulder, lumbar, etc) with kinesiotape was thought to be beneficial because they thought that tissues tended to eliminate garbage products in that way, but then other studies showed that tissues were not affected at all by tape taped on the skin.

And yes, I would do a clear division between the players/athletes that never had a twist and the ones who already had one at least- There is a country between both situations.

[bwgood77]

As mentioned, just a vent post. They don’t need to rest but if they come out with the same lack of effort and looking like they’re running around like they don’t know what they’re doing or have a plan, then don’t waste anyone’s time tonight.

We lost because GS hit 19 3s and we hit 4. We shot poorly from deep and will never win with shooting like that (or very rarely). I imagine if we would have played the exact same game but instead of 4-21 from 2, we were 8-21 from 3, and won by 1, you wouldn't feel there was a lack of effort or plan. Bad shooting isn't a plan, even though we really don't have the 3 pt shooters in our lineup anymore with Okogie and Craig in there instead of Mikal and Cam (when KD's out).

Missing shots is one thing but being on our heels the whole game is something else. Offense hasn’t looked right since kd went down.
We don’t have the talent to keep up with good teams and our bench, which should still be solid with Warren and Ross, isn’t good

Yeah, had we given our chance fully healthy when Bridges and Cam got back, with Bridges getting better at creating and doing more offensively while players were out, I think we'd be looking really good. Even Bridges on the Redick podcast said they were really confident when they were about to be at full strength because they felt they'd be tougher than ever.

I wouldn't be scared of anyone had we gotten there with the improvements in his game. I think people failed to see the importance of Mikal on this team because he never missed a game, so he was always such a key cog in our phenomenal seasons the last two years. People look at those seasons as failure but still made it further than any SSOL team and won more games in a season than any SSOL team.

Anyway, we are probably a tad better than we would have been when/if KD is healthy (I think) but I doubt by much, and you can't necessarily count on his health, as you could have with Mikal.

So we just have to pray he stays healthy and we can figure out a way to replenish our talent when he's gone. It's unlikely we find another player as good as Mikal or a pair as good as him or Cam, but hopefully we find something post KD. I know many just expect to find some star, but most are drafted and with their teams since they are under control for so long, and those few that have moved are typically a lot older and miss a lot more games since they've been in the league for 10+ years (KD, Kawhi, AD, LeBron, Kyrie, George, Harden, etc). Even older stars that haven't moved are injured quite a bit like Curry and Lillard.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Please tell me we have trade options for deyawndre this summer

I think there will be and if we don't win it all this year, moving him might cause the team to make another big splash. Will be interesting to see how the offseason is approached.

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/270813/Mitchell-Robinson-Unhappy-About-Role-With-Knicks

knicks is that dumb organization

Perhaps this is a win scenario for all the Ayton haters out there that want him gone so vehemently at every opportunity? I mean even I as an obvious Ayton supporter ( avatar/ posts) if it's at all unclear, find his soft/ finesse mentality grating and very frustrating to say the least given his immense potential. So I'm not completely blind to the merit of moving him for a more cost effective and physically imposing presence ( to compliment Durant's elite FINESSE game).

But my question in this premise would be what exactly would a realistic framework for an Ayton for Mitchell trade look like??? And how could we extract equitable value for him ( OUR 1ST EVER/ ONLY #1 PICK IN FRANCHISE HISTORY) whose still elite in terms of efficiency and versatility? And post trade, would/ could Mitchell even provide the same kind of gravity to open things up for our perimeter players? Could he even score from midrange at all? What is the equitable value package for us with New York?

Should we look at cheaper options ( of course) such as Holmes, Capela, Poetl, etc with the value return addressing different positions with greater LEGITIMATE quality depth?? Overall the best options in terms of similar production at a lower pricetag would still be the same names I suggested back when this whole contract fiasco began with him. The two best options being Vucevic and Valuncias! Vucevic to open up the floor from three, and Valuncias for size, rebounding and a better modicum of floor spacing?? Any ideas on what our most realistic considerations could be here?

** I'd definitely want a pick inclusion or two to offset all that we gave away in the Durant deal though. And New York has plenty of available picks IF done prior to the draft!

[bwgood77]

Please tell me we have trade options for deyawndre this summer

I think there will be and if we don't win it all this year, moving him might cause the team to make another big splash. Will be interesting to see how the offseason is approached.

Looks like my Poeltl and Plumleee ideas are likely not possible now. I would say Brooklyn might trade Simmons for him but they have Claxton and already didn't want Ayton in the KD trade. I wonder if Indy would be interested, though they probably never offered Turner for him since they cleared out cap space to sign him outright. I think had they offered him we would have done a S&T for him.

Not sure if most would like Turner since he just mostly shoots jump shots, dunks less, rebounds less and has a similar turnover rate as Ayton, but he probably would be a better fit given he can by a 3&D center. We would struggle rebounding more as a team though.

Still, that is good value.

I wouldn't be shocked if they traded him for cap space (take back a way cheaper C) to get under the tax. If so it would be nice to get 1st for him to replenish at least one of our 4 1sts.

[lonea]

I think there will be and if we don't win it all this year, moving him might cause the team to make another big splash. Will be interesting to see how the offseason is approached.

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/270813/Mitchell-Robinson-Unhappy-About-Role-With-Knicks

knicks is that dumb organization

Perhaps this is a win scenario for all the Ayton haters out there that want him gone so vehemently at every opportunity? I mean even I as an obvious Ayton supporter ( avatar/ posts) if it's at all unclear, find his soft/ finesse mentality grating and very frustrating to say the least given his immense potential. So I'm not completely blind to the merit of moving him for a more cost effective and physically imposing presence ( to compliment Durant's elite FINESSE game).

But my question in this premise would be what exactly would a realistic framework for an Ayton for Mitchell trade look like??? And how could we extract equitable value for him ( OUR 1ST EVER/ ONLY #1 PICK IN FRANCHISE HISTORY) whose still elite in terms of efficiency and versatility? And post trade, would/ could Mitchell even provide the same kind of gravity to open things up for our perimeter players? Could he even score from midrange at all? What is the equitable value package for us with New York?

Should we look at cheaper options ( of course) such as Holmes, Capela, Poetl, etc with the value return addressing different positions with greater LEGITIMATE quality depth?? Overall the best options in terms of similar production at a lower pricetag would still be the same names I suggested back when this whole contract fiasco began with him. The two best options being Vucevic and Valuncias! Vucevic to open up the floor from three, and Valuncias for size, rebounding and a better modicum of floor spacing?? Any ideas on what our most realistic considerations could be here?

** I'd definitely want a pick inclusion or two to offset all that we gave away in the Durant deal though. And New York has plenty of available picks IF done prior to the draft!

Seeing this is his fifth year in the league, I think most "haters" gave him enough chance to redeem himself.

His skillset has stagnated since the championship year and there's not much going on at the defensive end. His defensive IQ is questionable at best. I think it was clearly shown in the GS game two nights ago when CP was playing D on Curry at the baseline and Ayton just stood there letting Curry attempt and layup. Even the announcer said, CP was expecting Ayton to trap Curry.

I have said it before, Ayton is not a big game player. He's shtting the bed every time he's given the opportunity.