The Official 2025 Offseason Thread Part 1

[thamadkant]

OG Anunoby, Mitchell Robinson, 1 unprotected first and 2 second rounders as minimum. KD is suns best player and MVP.

[Revived]

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Imagine how truly horrific you have to be as an owner to be called the worst owner in the history of the league in the same year that a legendary talent like Luka was traded by another owner for scraps.

[BobbieL]

Thats always been my theory. He is $55m now - what will he care how the team does making $70m per year.

This is just the downfall of the team - right here.

He will get that contract and then ask out as soon as possible. But won't have as much value due to his terrible contract.

This. Booker will start to sit games out when Suns are a bad team and he is contracted 4 years.

He will be the guy who gets 28 on poor shooting with terrible plus minus but happy to make an all star team

[Ghost of Kleine]

How about at least one FRP

Any trade without a minimum of two first rounders coming to the Suns is a nonstarter.

Knicks don’t have two first rounders to trade.

The premise I'd pursue would be either Anunoby, or Bridges as the centerpiece (get for us), and then they could send other pieces to another team for young pieces and draft picks?

Or maybe KAT and then those 5 2nds? But basically I'd only want one of Bridges, Anunoby, or KAT and get picks from a young team. Also not sure I'd really even want KAT unless we could also line up a clever trade utilizing Beal to one of 3 options:

1- Utah/Orlando/Phoenix
- Beal to Utah. Utah also gets a 1st from Orlando and the CLE 27' 1st from us.
- Markannen to Orlando.
- Isaac/ KCP/ Bidatze to Phoenix.

** Utah does this to get off of Markannen's long-term money and bottom out for a loaded 26' draft while also creating massive cap space for a loaded 27' free agency and picking up two 1sts in the deal too!

** Orlando does this to run a more versatile floor spacing big lineup with Markannen at the 4 and Banchero at the 5. But could also be interchangeable in the frontcourt too! Orlando also gets off of KCP in the deal.

Suggs/ FA/ Wagner/ Markannen/ Banchero.
Black/ Harris/ DeSilva/ Carter Jr/ Wagner.
Anthony/ Houston/ Howard/ Draft/ FA?

** Phoenix does this to get loaded with high-end talent and defense.
Booker/ KCP/ Isaac/ KAT/ Bidatze.
Paul/ Allen/ Dunn/ Bol Bol/ Richards.
Gillespie/ Trent Jr/ O'neale/ Condon/ Ighodaro?
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
2- Utah/ Brooklyn/ Phoenix
- Beal/ CLE 29' 1st to Utah.
- Markannen to Brooklyn.
- Cam Johnson/ NYK 25' 1st (26th pick)/ BRK 25' 2nd (36th pick) to Phoenix.

** Utah does this to get off of Markannen's money, shaving close to $ 103 million over the next two years, allowing them to fully bottom out for a star loaded 26' draft as well as creating upwards of $80 million for a loaded 27' free agency to toally reconstruct their roster. *** IF another 1st is needed, we can pass the DEN 25' 1st to Utah for additional incentive.

** Brooklyn does this to not only meet the salary floor (needs to add a ton of salary this summer), but also to give them a talented young floor spacing big to compliment Claxton and begin filling out a more competitive roster.

** Phoenix does this to get Cam Johnson back! And be loaded offensively with Booker, Johnson, and KAT. I'd then also look to trade.........................
Allen/CLE 27' 1ST to Charlotte for Mark Williams/CHO 25' 2nd ( 33rd pick)/ NOP 25' 2nd ( 34th pick). Focus on defensive prospects from the draft!
26- Carter Bryant.
29- Rocco Zisarksy.
33- Alex Condon.
34- Myles Byrd.
** Trade O'neale to San Antonio for Sochan.

Booker/ C Johnson/ Dunn/ KAT/ Williams.
Paul/ Trent Jr/ Sochan/ Nance Jr/ Richards.
Gillespie/ Byrd/ Bryant/ Condon/ Ighodaro.
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
3- Denver/Orlando/Phoenix
- Beal/ KCP/ CLE 27' 1st (PHX)/ ORL 27' 1st (top 10) protected) to Denver.
- Murray/ Nnaji/ Pickett/ to Orlando. ** Orlando would have to buy out Harris prior to this trades' submittal for this framework to be legal.
- Gordon/ Isaac/C Anthony/ Joseph (3 million expiring) to Phoenix.
** Trade O'neale for Sochan.

** Denver does this to move off of Murray's long-term money and also get back KCP, who was great for them, and Beal would fill the scoring gap left by Murray while being on a shorter deal that matches KCP's expiring, which would give Denver two seasons to try and win with Jokic before getting upwards of 77 million to completely revamp the roster around Jokic as he'll see fit! They also get off of Gordon's long-term money and add two 1sts in the deal for other potential moves.

** Orlando does this to get an all-star level scoring guard in Murray and a high-potential versatile 3 & D forward in Nnaji that will help them space the floor while still being pretty solid defensively on an affordable contract. They also get a young quality bench guard to back up Murray and Black on a rookie scale deal. This makes them much more competitive towards their goals for the playoffs.

** Phoenix does this to get more size, more athleticism, length, and defensive versatility around Booker/ Cam/ and KAT!!! We also get a better, slightly more expensive version of Cam Payne for a backup scoring guard in Cole Anthony. ** Ishbia will need to decline Micic and buy out Martin prior to this trades' submittal for this to be legal.

Booker/ Cam/ Gordon/ KAT/ Isaac.
Anthony/ Allen/ Dunn/ Bol Bol/ Richards.
Gillespie/ Trent Jr/ Sochan/ Condon/ Ighodaro.

[Ghost of Kleine]

OG Anunoby, Mitchell Robinson, 1 unprotected first and 2 second rounders as minimum. KD is suns best player and MVP.

NYK doesn't have any firsts left, man! They have a few 2nd, though. What they could do is send us Anunoby as the centerpiece (get). And then send Mitchell/ McBride or maybe Hart to a 3rd team for young players and picks?

[Saberestar]

Jimmy Butler with 38/7/6/3 on 20 shots to put the Warriors in the playoffs as a 7th seed.

This guy wanted to play for the Suns and we were so close to get him. That's give you an idea of the type of players we can get because the NBA (not that clown Stephen A. Smith lol) players and coaches know that Ishbia is trying to win and will put the resources and the money to do it.

For KD this summer I expect a former/borderline/current All-Star (Butler), a young player on a rookie contract with upside (Kuminga) and draft capital ( probably 1 unprotected FRP, 1 swap and a few 2nds).

[Ghost of Kleine]

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[Saberestar]

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Who is Patrick Smith?

[Iceman36]

Nightmare season finally over, I'm back in the game.

Cherry on the top of these last two disastrous years would be to miracously get the top Draft pick and hand it to the Rockets. Would be a perfect Suns ending...

[garrick]

What team has the best players to build around Booker with?

Now if Houston is offering the Suns draft picks - they move to the head of the class.

Granted, if keeping Booker -the goal should be cap space in 2027 and Dillon Brooks expires in 2027; Beal would be off the books in 2027 so with that it is moving on from O'Neale and Allen

If we are keeping Booker, it really doesn't matter. It will be like Book's first 5 years until we are able to have high picks again. Barring selecting star players with our late picks.

We have zero ways to add talent. KD will not net that much. We have no one else who could even get us a first round pick.

There can't be a worse situation than winning like 25 games a year without having your own picks until 2032. We have some late picks, at the expense of trading our 2031 unprotected. The years we didn't trade are double swapped, so we will likely end up with Memphis or Brooklyn's picks, possibly Washingon's.

We will be one of the least desirable locations to go to for coaches, and before long, for players as well.

I was trying to talk myself into a scenario of how to build a team around Booker if he is kept but I just don't see it

Kellan Olson had an article about trading Durant and one of them was Houston and adding Green. Which I thought was stupid as Green is redundant with Booker. Need to get away from the "activity" and get to "accomplishment.

GOK laid out some scenarios above but without draft picks - its not happening. I agree with Zach Lowe and Simmons in that Suns fans are going to be disappointed with the return for Durant.

So Ishbia is going to extend Booker, for ZERO reason with three years to go -- and build around a guy who has shown he is more a very good option as long as he is not accountable to elevate his teammates

If he extends Booker now Ishbia will cement himself firmly as the worst owner in the league which is really saying something because it's pretty hard to eclipse the ineptitude of MJ, James Dolan and Vivek Ranadive.

[Revived]

If we are keeping Booker, it really doesn't matter. It will be like Book's first 5 years until we are able to have high picks again. Barring selecting star players with our late picks.

We have zero ways to add talent. KD will not net that much. We have no one else who could even get us a first round pick.

There can't be a worse situation than winning like 25 games a year without having your own picks until 2032. We have some late picks, at the expense of trading our 2031 unprotected. The years we didn't trade are double swapped, so we will likely end up with Memphis or Brooklyn's picks, possibly Washingon's.

We will be one of the least desirable locations to go to for coaches, and before long, for players as well.

I was trying to talk myself into a scenario of how to build a team around Booker if he is kept but I just don't see it

Kellan Olson had an article about trading Durant and one of them was Houston and adding Green. Which I thought was stupid as Green is redundant with Booker. Need to get away from the "activity" and get to "accomplishment.

GOK laid out some scenarios above but without draft picks - its not happening. I agree with Zach Lowe and Simmons in that Suns fans are going to be disappointed with the return for Durant.

So Ishbia is going to extend Booker, for ZERO reason with three years to go -- and build around a guy who has shown he is more a very good option as long as he is not accountable to elevate his teammates

I can't give too much energy to this team for awhile. I am very excited about the Chargers though and am looking more forward to the draft than I think I ever have.

Kinda how I feel too. It feels nice knowing at least my football team has good leadership in charge and a HC that is damn good at his job.

Suns are just such a hot mess. Terrible ownership, players that don’t like each other, arena filled with mainly corporate people as regular fans don’t want attend/can’t afford to do so.

This season was the least amount of games I’ve ever watched for the Suns. And that’s crazy because it means I watched more games during the Michael Beasley/Shannon Brown/Hedo Turkogku era.

[bullsaficianado]

Sure Suns will take Williamson and Olynyk for Beal and the Utah picks. Of course the Pelicans would never do that and Beal would not waive his NTC to play there.

[Calvin Klein]

What do we have to give for Zion? Absolutely Nothing.

[Ghost of Kleine]

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Who is Patrick Smith?

Patrick Smith is a small time young nba / sports media writer for shot coverage, a small upcoming basketball media platform that promotes basketball information relayed from other sources. He seems legitimate and not a parody account, but with only 500+ followers.

As for shotcoverage itself:

Shot Coverage (@ShotCoverage) on Twitter is a Twitter account that provides NBA news, rumors, and highlights. They describe themselves as providing "Quick & Fast Accurate News!". They focus on delivering breaking news and information related to the NBA. 

He's apparently passed on legitimate basketball information over the past year or so. And doesn't look sketchy. But might take it worth a grain if salt until further legitimized through other vetted sources man.

By the way, The Pels front office is/ has been dubious that they could even get a worthwhile package back in trade for Zion due to his durability concerns and the implied risks involved around that.

But his supposed speculated market value (from various reports) would put his value around 2-3 good young players possibly and maybe two firsts as threshold value??

[Ghost of Kleine]

What do we have to give for Zion? Absolutely Nothing.

Well, it would require our front "orifice" actually being fairly creative and choosing to use some assets from whatever KD trade package we could beneficially pull. But his speculated value in trade being depreciated by his durability/ weight concerns put his current value in the range of maybe 2-3 good or young players and two firsts maybe???

So for the right package, knowing that the Pels front office is ready to move on, and Zion's value is currently fairly low, it could be reasonable that we could attain him?? It would behoove our front office to at least explore what kind of value their seeking/ hoping for and then maybe negotiate from there?

They also may want to get off of Murray's long term money too, so they could embrace a full rebuild around their core of Jones, Murphy, Missi, and Hawkins, etc. So maybe there could be something there for them with Beal soon to he a huge expiring ( If he could be amenable).

But even if he isn't, maybe wherever he would agree to go, some pieces from that team and perhaps some from a KD trade? For the combination of Zion and Murray somehow? OKC could offer significant young talent and picks ( have almost 30 picks to hurn through) in a KD trade and reroute some of that to the Pels?

I'd have to look into it some more though obviously...lol.

[Calvin Klein]

What do we have to give for Zion? Absolutely Nothing.

Well, it would require our front "orifice" actually being fairly creative and choosing to use some assets from whatever KD trade package we could beneficially pull. But his speculated value in trade being depreciated by his durability/ weight concerns put his current value in the range of maybe 2-3 good or young players and two firsts maybe???

So for the right package, knowing that the Pels front office is ready to move on, and Zion's value is currently fairly low, it could be reasonable that we could attain him?? It would behoove our front office to at least explore what kind of value their seeking/ hoping for and then maybe negotiate from there?

They also may want to get off of Murray's long term money too, so they could embrace a full rebuild around their core of Jones, Murphy, Missi, and Hawkins, etc. So maybe there could be something there for them with Beal soon to he a huge expiring ( If he could be amenable).

But even if he isn't, maybe wherever he would agree to go, some pieces from that team and perhaps some from a KD trade? For the combination of Zion and Murray somehow? OKC could offer significant young talent and picks ( have almost 30 picks to hurn through) in a KD trade and reroute some of that to the Pels?

I'd have to look into it some more though obviously...lol.

Going from whatever this was to putting our hopes in Zion would be....not ideal. I'd stay the hell out of it, but obviously that's not the Ish/zeke way

[Ghost of Kleine]

Sure Suns will take Williamson and Olynyk for Beal and the Utah picks. Of course the Pelicans would never do that and Beal would not waive his NTC to play there.

Under normal conditions you're right and of course a talent like Zion wouldn't be attainable! But currently his situation is unique due to the Pels frustrations over his weight/ durability issues and their growing interests in rebuilding around their other pieces in Murphy, Jones, Missi, etc.

Zion's value is currently depreciated because of those circumstances/ implied risks involved with trading for him. And of course Beal could say no to Utah too ( that'd be the sticking point) but he may also be getting burnt out on this whole untenable situation and be more open to going elsewhere in interest of securing his next contract/ opportunity.

And at worst, Utah has pretty nice weather most of the time, is a highly religious environment that would fit his theological proclivities, and would be q situation with young players and no legitimate star allowing him to showcase as a 1st option while there!

And if things don't pan out, Ainge could buy him out the following season. This would allow Beal to choose his next destination freely. All valid considerations to explore. We lose nothing at this point in doing so!

[Ghost of Kleine]

What do we have to give for Zion? Absolutely Nothing.

Well, it would require our front "orifice" actually being fairly creative and choosing to use some assets from whatever KD trade package we could beneficially pull. But his speculated value in trade being depreciated by his durability/ weight concerns put his current value in the range of maybe 2-3 good or young players and two firsts maybe???

So for the right package, knowing that the Pels front office is ready to move on, and Zion's value is currently fairly low, it could be reasonable that we could attain him?? It would behoove our front office to at least explore what kind of value their seeking/ hoping for and then maybe negotiate from there?

They also may want to get off of Murray's long term money too, so they could embrace a full rebuild around their core of Jones, Murphy, Missi, and Hawkins, etc. So maybe there could be something there for them with Beal soon to he a huge expiring ( If he could be amenable).

But even if he isn't, maybe wherever he would agree to go, some pieces from that team and perhaps some from a KD trade? For the combination of Zion and Murray somehow? OKC could offer significant young talent and picks ( have almost 30 picks to hurn through) in a KD trade and reroute some of that to the Pels?

I'd have to look into it some more though obviously...lol.

Going from whatever this was to putting our hopes in Zion would be....not ideal. I'd stay the hell out of it, but obviously that's not the Ish/zeke way

I hear you man! But upon reflection of the reality of our situation and Ishbias' unwillingness to pursue a proper rebuild, where screwed anyways. And we'll be very unlikely to legitimately improve enough to contend with Booker at nearly 70 million in a couple of years.

So seeing as our situation is already very unfavorable and we've already given up everything, why not explore this risk? At worst our trajectory wouldn't change much. But at best it might return an anomalous Charles Barkley trade type outcome for us.

This is how I'm looking at this and rationalizing it's possibility.

[Ghost of Kleine]

If we are keeping Booker, it really doesn't matter. It will be like Book's first 5 years until we are able to have high picks again. Barring selecting star players with our late picks.

We have zero ways to add talent. KD will not net that much. We have no one else who could even get us a first round pick.

There can't be a worse situation than winning like 25 games a year without having your own picks until 2032. We have some late picks, at the expense of trading our 2031 unprotected. The years we didn't trade are double swapped, so we will likely end up with Memphis or Brooklyn's picks, possibly Washingon's.

We will be one of the least desirable locations to go to for coaches, and before long, for players as well.

I was trying to talk myself into a scenario of how to build a team around Booker if he is kept but I just don't see it

Kellan Olson had an article about trading Durant and one of them was Houston and adding Green. Which I thought was stupid as Green is redundant with Booker. Need to get away from the "activity" and get to "accomplishment.

GOK laid out some scenarios above but without draft picks - its not happening. I agree with Zach Lowe and Simmons in that Suns fans are going to be disappointed with the return for Durant.

So Ishbia is going to extend Booker, for ZERO reason with three years to go -- and build around a guy who has shown he is more a very good option as long as he is not accountable to elevate his teammates

If he extends Booker now Ishbia will cement himself firmly as the worst owner in the league which is really saying something because it's pretty hard to eclipse the ineptitude of MJ, James Dolan and Vivek Ranadive.

Also for consideration/ comparison man.................. Ted Stepien! There's some distinct parallels there I'd wager ( picks frivolously given away/ future destroyed).

[sunsfan1o1]

OG Anunoby, Mitchell Robinson, 1 unprotected first and 2 second rounders as minimum. KD is suns best player and MVP.

That’s not enough. Throw in Mikal and some more picks. Then we can start talking.