2019 season speculation including trade ideas

[bwgood77]

So whats our record with Brandon Clarke?

Quite a bit better because our defense wouldn't be a mess. And he would also be able to score around the rim unlike Kaminsky and Saric, since he's one of the most efficient guys in the NBA, even as a rookie. Then can also spread the floor, shooting 3s at 50%.

And your other scrub from the previous year talk about the draft, Doncic, might be helpful too.

Ok boomer

You going to he a coward still? Ive admitted i made a mistake and doncic is a stud. Yet you still bring this up !

coward? For mentioning Clarke and Doncic? Your two draft scrub calls? Yes, you admitted Doncic is a stud. I guess in denial about Clarke. Now Clarke may regress a bit as a rookie but he clearly knows what he is doing and was one of the key guys that killed us last night. You think he doesn't help us over what Kaminsky usually does? Or a couple Cam 3s?

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

Quite a bit better because our defense wouldn't be a mess. And he would also be able to score around the rim unlike Kaminsky and Saric, since he's one of the most efficient guys in the NBA, even as a rookie. Then can also spread the floor, shooting 3s at 50%.

And your other scrub from the previous year talk about the draft, Doncic, might be helpful too.

Ok boomer

You going to he a coward still? Ive admitted i made a mistake and doncic is a stud. Yet you still bring this up !

coward? For mentioning Clarke and Doncic? Your two draft scrub calls? Yes, you admitted Doncic is a stud. I guess in denial about Clarke. Now Clarke may regress a bit as a rookie but he clearly knows what he is doing and was one of the key guys that killed us last night. You think he doesn't help us over what Kaminsky usually does? Or a couple Cam 3s?

What sucks is that this happens every year. We think a guy is an obvious choice. We don't take that guy. Turns out we were right.

Sigh.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Ok boomer

You going to he a coward still? Ive admitted i made a mistake and doncic is a stud. Yet you still bring this up !

coward? For mentioning Clarke and Doncic? Your two draft scrub calls? Yes, you admitted Doncic is a stud. I guess in denial about Clarke. Now Clarke may regress a bit as a rookie but he clearly knows what he is doing and was one of the key guys that killed us last night. You think he doesn't help us over what Kaminsky usually does? Or a couple Cam 3s?

What sucks is that this happens every year. We think a guy is an obvious choice. We don't take that guy. Turns out we were right.

Sigh.

So true!

[Wilber85]

[*]

coward? For mentioning Clarke and Doncic? Your two draft scrub calls? Yes, you admitted Doncic is a stud. I guess in denial about Clarke. Now Clarke may regress a bit as a rookie but he clearly knows what he is doing and was one of the key guys that killed us last night. You think he doesn't help us over what Kaminsky usually does? Or a couple Cam 3s?

What sucks is that this happens every year. We think a guy is an obvious choice. We don't take that guy. Turns out we were right.

Sigh.

So true!

Clarke isnt a superstar . Doncic is a superstar .

Clarke wouldnt make us a contender

[Ghost of Kleine]

[*]

What sucks is that this happens every year. We think a guy is an obvious choice. We don't take that guy. Turns out we were right.

Sigh.

So true!

Clarke isnt a superstar . Doncic is a superstar .

Clarke wouldnt make us a contender

We wouldn't need him to be a superstar, He only would need to play within his skillset, get rebounds play post defense, block some shots, and hit the occasional three to have a positive impact for us, and to help us address our really poor rim protection and post defense issues with our current bigs in Saric and Kaminsky honestly. Also, he was never expected to be a superstar. And to be honest, I can't remember anyone at all claiming that he would be a superstar man. The argument back around the draft was that he couldn't hit threes, Nor could be efficient in the post due to his size.

And so far, He's proven all of his doubters wrong. And is currently shooting around 50% on his threes as well, whilst also averaging a block a game as a rookie. So again, He would've been at better choice for our needs than reaching for Cam.

His value to us would've been in that he would've again addressed a very specific lingering issue in our frontcourt. Our severe lack of rim protection, athleticism and frontcourt defensive efficiency. So I agree that he wouldn't make us a contender obviously! However, He would absolutely make us better than what we currently are by providing post defense, rebounding and rim protection in Aytons' absence. And he'd certainly provide better post defense than both Saric and Kaminsky combined, Due to their lack of athleticism. As well as their lack of defensive awareness.

Also, I think that the overall point of the above post wasn't individually specific to Clarke, But referencing our numerous draft misses ( Doncic included) along with somehow always managing to find and select the lesser prospect. Now for the record, prior to that draft, I was one of the few on here that suggested trying to trade up into the top 3 with Sacramento or Atlanta in order to Get both Ayton and Doncic in that draft. And was honestly a bit jaded when the mavs actually made the move.It's unfortunate, But the past is the past. Time to move on and focus on the future.

Now with respect to the Cam Johnson and Brandon Clarke argument, Clarke was clearly the right pick, and would have been an ideal fit next to Ayton due to his defensive skillset and rim protection. But obviously James Jones went with what he was familiar with. That being a tall, unathletic high IQ shooter. And to his credit, Cam has been good so far as a floor spreader. But he doesn't help address our frontcourt defense, which was still a glaring issue even at the time of the draft, Mainly due to Aytons' passive nature and his proclivity for playing a finesse game. Hopefully he finds some aggression during this suspension. If he doesn't, Then we'll really be suffering still.

Ultimately, for the argument, Clarke would've had a bigger impact on the team defensively. And we should've traded up for Doncic, Even at the expense of Booker. But we have made many poor choices over the last couple of years. I just hope that going forward, We can start making the right ones. But for now, The jury is out as they say!

[Jdiddy701]

Kevin Love had 30 points and 17 rebs and was making step back clutch 3’s in San Antonio today. His contract is terrible but I wouldn’t be upset if James Jones traded for him.

At some point, you have to pull the trigger and take a gamble. This season is the best time to do it with a majority of the West teams struggling.

I keep hearing to save our cap space... nobody is signing here anyways!


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[Ghost of Kleine]

Kevin Love had 30 points and 17 rebs and was making step back clutch 3’s in San Antonio today. His contract is terrible but I wouldn’t be upset if James Jones traded for him.

At some point, you have to pull the trigger and take a gamble. This season is the best time to do it with a majority of the West teams struggling.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You're not wrong about needing to take occasional risks in order to get better. But Love even with his stellar production is just a player that I wouldn't touch. Again, it's his age, injury history, and above all, His horrific contract. All of these issues combined, Make Love a complete non starter for me. I don't think any general manager would want to take that big of a salary risk, just for a short term improvement. I mean one injury, and then your severely handicapped as a team with no real way to improve your roster for the next 3 years. That's 3 more years and 90 million tying up your cap space. Not to mention that it would immediately take us out of any possibility of participating in the 2021 free agency. and there's going to be an epic number of legitimate star players to choose from that summer.

Honestly, The best and most cost effective path that we could take towards immediate improvement in the short term, Without taking us out of the 2021 free agency bonanza would be to go out and trade for:

1- LaMarcus Aldridge: ( My first choice). He's averaging around 18 points / 7 rebounds / 2 assists / and almost 2 blocks per game. Whilst also hitting on around 36- 37% of his threes. Also he wouldn't suffer from the inability to score in the post as Saric and Kaminsky do.

He's still got an efficient and dominant post game. And best of all, His contract expires in 2021. Allowing us to maintain our cap flexibility for that epic free agency! There really is no negative aspect to trading for him soon ( IF he's still available). He'd make us a better, more competitive team right away, and potentially help us push deeper into the playoffs. Making us appear even more desirable to big name stars in 2021 when we'll have max cap space to offer too.

2- Aaron Gordon: Right now our frontcourt severely lacks speed and athleticism, along with frontcourt defense. Gordon is averaging: 13 points/ 7 rebounds/ and 2 assists. But is supremely athletic, and could be amazing for us in a Shaun Marion type role. Using his speed and athleticism to not only energize our apathetic team, But also use his explosive and speed to provide much better rebounding and rim protection than what either Saric or Kaminsky are capable of.

Now I understand some people's reservations about gis inconsistencies. However, I'd argue that he's been severely underutilized given his supreme size and athleticism. What I envision, Is resurrecting the high octane run and gun style that we created under Dantoni' and have all players speeding down the court with Both Booker and Cam Johnson( or Oubre) flashing out to the wing, Ayton running running straight towards the rim, whilst Gordon is cutting.


Rubio now has unlimited scoring options and athletic mismatches. Rubio can easily throw lobs to any of Ayton, Oubre or Gordon. All the while, Booker can be spotting up on the wing or cutting to the basket. And also while Ayton is flying towards the rim. And Gordon is also cutting to the rim as well on the fast break. Who does the defense now leave to help on? If they leave Ayton to help on Gordon, Ayton dunks on them. If they leave Gordon to help double Ayton, Then Gordon throws down a dunk on top of them. If they leave Booker to help on either Ayton or Gordon or even Oubre, Then Booker has a wide open shot. Or perhaps you leave Cam wide open to help on one of the 4 dominant players?

The point is that with so many super athletic players flashing to the rim, your only options are to either foul and give up free throws, Or just give up the basket and get dunked on! Or be forced to consistently leave Booker wide open and watch him go for 40+ points or more whilst Rubio gets 20 or more assists easily. Aaron Gordon could help us bring back a very potent and ultimately devastating fast break style offense that'd be nearly unstoppable. And then as we are a very exciting playoff team, his contract also expires in 2021. Making us very desirable to the big name star free agents that summer, Whilst having max cap space to offer.

So I'd honestly take either of those two options easily over the huge risk of trading for Love and potentially handcuffing the team financially for another 3 yrs.

[Revived]

Man the Spurs really suck if their losing to teams like the Cavs at home.

Suns have to win the game Saturday against them even though I’m sure Pop and LMA are already thinking of plays to destroy Saric and Kaminsky in the paint.

[Revived]

You know that he is not a rebounder, finisher, can't create, below average defender ...I mean, he is too limited so I think he is an important backup player at most.

All this can be used to describe Saric (who is also not quite the shooter that Bertans is) yet many feel he is the optimal starter for the Suns at PF.

Saric is a worse 3p shooter. Other than that, he is better than Bertans at every other aspect of the game. Both are bad finishers around the rim, I don't even need to look stats.

Yeah, Saric is not extremely well at anything, but that does not mean that he is not better all around than Bertans.

He is playing against starters all season long, Bertans is coming from the bench. And Saric is younger and clearly the better passer and rebounder. He plays harder IMO too.

What other things are Saric better than Bertans at? Defensively their about the same and Bertans averages nearly 30 mins a game so he plays quite a bit against starters as well.

Even if shooting is the only difference between Bertans and Saric, the difference is big enough to where he clearly is more valuable and an overall better player than Saric.

I’d be shocked if Saric got anywhere close to the contract offers that Bertans will get next summer.

[Revived]

Ok boomer

You going to he a coward still? Ive admitted i made a mistake and doncic is a stud. Yet you still bring this up !

coward? For mentioning Clarke and Doncic? Your two draft scrub calls? Yes, you admitted Doncic is a stud. I guess in denial about Clarke. Now Clarke may regress a bit as a rookie but he clearly knows what he is doing and was one of the key guys that killed us last night. You think he doesn't help us over what Kaminsky usually does? Or a couple Cam 3s?

What sucks is that this happens every year. We think a guy is an obvious choice. We don't take that guy. Turns out we were right.

Sigh.

I truly believe many people on this Suns forum who regular 9-5 jobs could’ve done a better job as GM than Ryan McDonough did during his tenure here.

It’s not as much that I think the people here know all the ins and outs of running a professional basketball team but the fact that McDonough was so bad at it.

[Revived]

[

2- Aaron Gordon: Right now our frontcourt severely lacks speed and athleticism, along with frontcourt defense. Gordon is averaging: 13 points/ 7 rebounds/ and 2 assists. But is supremely athletic, and could be amazing for us in a Shaun Marion type role. Using his speed and athleticism to not only energize our apathetic team, But also use his explosive and speed to provide much better rebounding and rim protection than what either Saric or Kaminsky are capable of.

Is Gordon a good defensive player/rim protector? I don’t watch any Magic games at all and know very little about any of their players including him. I know defense used to be a knock on him early in his career but perhaps that has changed.

I’d still take him over Saric because of the athleticism point that you brought up. One thing I’ve noticed this season is how unathletic we are with guys like Kaminsky, Saric, both Johnsons and Jerome getting playing time in the rotation. It makes Oubre look like an athletic freak because of how those guys can all barely get an inch or two off the ground.

I prefer this over athletic players with zero game like Josh Jackson and Chriss obviously but shouldn’t have to pick between one or the other since there are many players who are athletic and still competent.

It’s one of the main reasons why I’d prefer Gordon or LMA over Kevin Love in trade possibilities.

[sunskerr]

Gordon is a good defensive player. In fact, it's probably the biggest reason to get him. Orlando has tried too hard to turn him into an offensive focal point. If he's here in Phoenix, all he needs to do is focus on assisted baskets because Rubio and Booker run the show. In the pecking order he'd be behind the creators Rubio and Book, and then behind Ayton who would get more looks. He can then expend all his extra energy on being a great defender.

I take Gordon on this team 10 times out of 10. He fits like a glove.

[SunsRback4Good]

Gordon would be a nice addition but who will we have to lose in order to obtain him? Or even a Kevin Love type of player.

[Ghost of Kleine]

[

2- Aaron Gordon: Right now our frontcourt severely lacks speed and athleticism, along with frontcourt defense. Gordon is averaging: 13 points/ 7 rebounds/ and 2 assists. But is supremely athletic, and could be amazing for us in a Shaun Marion type role. Using his speed and athleticism to not only energize our apathetic team, But also use his explosive and speed to provide much better rebounding and rim protection than what either Saric or Kaminsky are capable of.

Is Gordon a good defensive player/rim protector? I don’t watch any Magic games at all and know very little about any of their players including him. I know defense used to be a knock on him early in his career but perhaps that has changed.

I’d still take him over Saric because of the athleticism point that you brought up. One thing I’ve noticed this season is how unathletic we are with guys like Kaminsky, Saric, both Johnsons and Jerome getting playing time in the rotation. It makes Oubre look like an athletic freak because of how those guys can all barely get an inch or two off the ground.

I prefer this over athletic players with zero game like Josh Jackson and Chriss obviously but shouldn’t have to pick between one or the other since there are many players who are athletic and still competent.

It’s one of the main reasons why I’d prefer Gordon or LMA over Kevin Love in trade possibilities.

He's not known for his defense, Which is odd considering his ridiculous athleticism and explosiveness. He does show tbe strong ability to offer rim protection and rebounding again, due to his incredible athletic ability.

A lot of people are down on him because his numbers are somewhat pedestrian. And some even claim that he's reached his ceiling in terms of potential. But he's only 24, And likely won't reach the apex of his ability until he hits 29 -30. So there's still plenty of time for further development under the fight conditions I think. I'd also argue that he's been in a situation wherein he was misused and his talents have been underutilized.


I personally think that his optimal situation in which to maximize his potential, would be in a fast paced offense. As an open court threat, and as a rim runner. Also I believe that he could dtill be very valuable to a team defensively in a " Marion type of role defensively cover either the 3 or the 4 using his incredible speed and athleticism to be an above average multipositional defender.

At the very least, I think that he could be a much more strong and explosive version of Oubre for us. Heck, If he proved to be really good in a different system, We could even consider not resigning Oubre, or perhaps trade him to a team like Memphis for an expiring and a pick, seeing as how they coveted him not long ago. And then we can just slot Gordon in defensively at the 3. Then still have a floor spacing 4 that can also block shots like either Maxi Kleber or Daniel Theis on a discount contract. ( either through trade, or free agency). IF we were to trade for Gordon, then why not next just trade Oubre to Dallas for Kleber and maybe say Jaylen Brunson( He's also familiar with Bridges). And would be a quality backup guard for us.

But again, What I envision is really a resurrection of the incredibly potent high octane fast paced offense that was nearly unstoppable for us under D' Antoni. Also utilizing traps and runouts with both Booker and Cam Johnson flashing out and spotting up on the wing, Whilst Both Gordon and Ayton flash and cut to the rim. With Rubio having endless potent nearly unstoppable scoring options. I mean, who is the defense going to help off of and leave open in that scenario?

If they double Ayton, They leave one of either Booker or Cam ( or Oubre ) wide open on the perimeter. If they leave Gordon to help on Ayton in the post, Gordon then cuts to the rim and throws down a monster dunk on top of them. If they leave Ayton to help on Gordon, They get dunked on by Ayton. Pick your poison! Rubio could also throw lobs all day with any of Ayton, Gordon or Ayton ready to throw it down. Does the defense sag off and then concede the wide open 3 to either Booker and watch him go for 40+ points ? Or do they sag off of Cam, and watch him drain endless 3s'? And really, how do you as a defender stop all of Ayton, Gordon, Booker and Oubre coming at you full speed on a fast break?

We could be a fast, potent, energizing sharpshooting new version of Lob City with the newfound athleticism on our roster. Not to mention numerous mismatches athletically. Also Rubio could average record assists. We'd again potentially walk into 2021 free agency as a very exciting and competitive playoff team with max csp space to offer. You just can't ask for a better scenario than that I'd think.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Gordon would be a nice addition but who will we have to lose in order to obtain him? Or even a Kevin Love type of player.

Well given Orlando's tough cap space dilemma, and with Gordon underperforming. We should be able to snag him at the very most having to offer Johnson's expiring contract ( a match of salary anyways) maybe Saric, and a lottery protected future first. I really can't see him currently having any more value than that honestly.

[sunskerr]

Yeah I don't think Gordon is particularly valuable. He's more or less (or should be) a known commodity. His two previous seasons are identical, and this year he has actually regressed (statistically) with the emergence of Isaac.

In any case, I think Ayton returning will shore up a lot of the interior issues. But if the problem persists, then Gordon would be an obvious trade target. I'm honestly fine with either scenario- waiting or doing a trade sooner rather than later.

[Saberestar]

All this can be used to describe Saric (who is also not quite the shooter that Bertans is) yet many feel he is the optimal starter for the Suns at PF.

Saric is a worse 3p shooter. Other than that, he is better than Bertans at every other aspect of the game. Both are bad finishers around the rim, I don't even need to look stats.

Yeah, Saric is not extremely well at anything, but that does not mean that he is not better all around than Bertans.

He is playing against starters all season long, Bertans is coming from the bench. And Saric is younger and clearly the better passer and rebounder. He plays harder IMO too.

What other things are Saric better than Bertans at? Defensively their about the same and Bertans averages nearly 30 mins a game so he plays quite a bit against starters as well.

Even if shooting is the only difference between Bertans and Saric, the difference is big enough to where he clearly is more valuable and an overall better player than Saric.

I’d be shocked if Saric got anywhere close to the contract offers that Bertans will get next summer.

Look at their raw numbers or advance stats for rebounding and assists. This season or all their careers...Saric is better.

[Saberestar]

Kevin Love had 30 points and 17 rebs and was making step back clutch 3’s in San Antonio today. His contract is terrible but I wouldn’t be upset if James Jones traded for him.

At some point, you have to pull the trigger and take a gamble. This season is the best time to do it with a majority of the West teams struggling.

I keep hearing to save our cap space... nobody is signing here anyways!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I was really surprised with his performance in this game. He dominated and was "the old" Love again.

The trend in the last month was that he was slowing down, but if he can average around 20 points and 12 boards since now until the trade deadline I would be open to trade for him. But he needs to show that he is in great shape, motivated and producing.

We are gonna have more than a month to see our team with Ayton back, so we will know at the trade deadline (February 6th) if we need to make a trade or stay pat.

[bwgood77]

All this can be used to describe Saric (who is also not quite the shooter that Bertans is) yet many feel he is the optimal starter for the Suns at PF.

Saric is a worse 3p shooter. Other than that, he is better than Bertans at every other aspect of the game. Both are bad finishers around the rim, I don't even need to look stats.

Yeah, Saric is not extremely well at anything, but that does not mean that he is not better all around than Bertans.

He is playing against starters all season long, Bertans is coming from the bench. And Saric is younger and clearly the better passer and rebounder. He plays harder IMO too.

What other things are Saric better than Bertans at? Defensively their about the same and Bertans averages nearly 30 mins a game so he plays quite a bit against starters as well.

Even if shooting is the only difference between Bertans and Saric, the difference is big enough to where he clearly is more valuable and an overall better player than Saric.

I’d be shocked if Saric got anywhere close to the contract offers that Bertans will get next summer.

Bertans is just an elite 3 pt shooter. Like a Teletovic or something. Like you said he gets almost 30 minutes a game and averages like 4 rpg, and really nothing else. Very poor defender....Saric isn't great but Bertans is far worse. SA cut him to sign Marcus Morris, and while he hits shots for the Wizards, he's not helping the team translate them into many wins, except against us. Of course they don't have much besides Beal, Bryant and IT, though Rui Hachimura has been decent...a little Oubre like, but decent. Bertans is somewhat like a Troy Daniels, and at best, maybe a Cam Johnson type, and a couple years older than Saric.

He'd be a decent bench guy, to come in and hit some shots, but that's it.

[bwgood77]

[

2- Aaron Gordon: Right now our frontcourt severely lacks speed and athleticism, along with frontcourt defense. Gordon is averaging: 13 points/ 7 rebounds/ and 2 assists. But is supremely athletic, and could be amazing for us in a Shaun Marion type role. Using his speed and athleticism to not only energize our apathetic team, But also use his explosive and speed to provide much better rebounding and rim protection than what either Saric or Kaminsky are capable of.

Is Gordon a good defensive player/rim protector? I don’t watch any Magic games at all and know very little about any of their players including him. I know defense used to be a knock on him early in his career but perhaps that has changed.

I’d still take him over Saric because of the athleticism point that you brought up. One thing I’ve noticed this season is how unathletic we are with guys like Kaminsky, Saric, both Johnsons and Jerome getting playing time in the rotation. It makes Oubre look like an athletic freak because of how those guys can all barely get an inch or two off the ground.

I prefer this over athletic players with zero game like Josh Jackson and Chriss obviously but shouldn’t have to pick between one or the other since there are many players who are athletic and still competent.

It’s one of the main reasons why I’d prefer Gordon or LMA over Kevin Love in trade possibilities.

Gordon is decent. 31 mpg, 13.7 ppg, 7 rpg, 2.7 apg (I guess you said that), but shoots only 31% from 3. In college he was known as strictly a defensive guy but he's not a great defender at this level. Doesn't really get steals or blocks/rim protection really. Defense is better than offense slightly since he shoots so poorly (51.6 TS%). I don't think he's worth his contract and probably not a good fit next to Ayton.