2020 NBA Draft Prospect Watch - Revised Poll

[Ghost of Kleine]

Bane is not a top 15 level prospect the thought of him at 10 is silly. He might go low 20's but he has nowehere near teh potential of the Vassels or the Nesmiths, he might be a solid rotation player but his winspan is 6'4 compared to say Nesmith who has a 6'10 wingspan 6 inches is a big difference when it comes to gaurding in the NBA, I think some people are getting carried away about a player many sites have as a 2nd round pick. You can do the exact same thing about Tyler Bey or Robert Woodard, look at some tools and ignore the problems but there is a reason all those guys are talked about 20-40 and not 10-20 they have bigger holes. I like Tyler Bey in the 20's alot. I would rather take him then Bane if we do trade back, his rebounding and three point ability would make him a nice small ball 4 option next to Ayton.

I'm fine with Bane anywhere from 14- 20 But with any prospect really, Value is largely " Eye of the beholder, And also highly situational. Whilst one team may of course value Banes higher due to potential fit or intangibles, Or perhaps even having a positional need addressed by that prospects specific trademark or elite attributes, Another team may of course have him much lower on their board, As that prospect isn't a necessity for varying reasons. And whilst in a normal draft, Such a consideration at the 10th pick would/ should be considered silly or unnecessary, This draft is relatively devoid of high end talent, And many prospects in the 9-20 range have by consensus opinion been found to be quite similiar in terms of upside and potential outcome or impact. So a prospect such as Bane, With a strong frame, high basketball IQ, High motor and work ethic, secondary play making ability, defensive switchability ( due to frame) And most importantly ELITE floor spacing ability, Would in this unique environment, have escalated value due to a higher floor. And also, A greater perceived view of being a reliable and consistent contributor, Due to his intangibles, And translatable skills. So in that respect, It really wouldn't be deemed to be as much of a reach.

I do really like Tyler Bet though. And would agree on his ideal fit next to Ayton.

[Spin Move]

Bane is not a top 15 level prospect the thought of him at 10 is silly. He might go low 20's but he has nowehere near teh potential of the Vassels or the Nesmiths, he might be a solid rotation player but his winspan is 6'4 compared to say Nesmith who has a 6'10 wingspan 6 inches is a big difference when it comes to gaurding in the NBA, I think some people are getting carried away about a player many sites have as a 2nd round pick. You can do the exact same thing about Tyler Bey or Robert Woodard, look at some tools and ignore the problems but there is a reason all those guys are talked about 20-40 and not 10-20 they have bigger holes. I like Tyler Bey in the 20's alot. I would rather take him then Bane if we do trade back, his rebounding and three point ability would make him a nice small ball 4 option next to Ayton.

I'm fine with Bane anywhere from 14- 20 But with any prospect really, Value is largely " Eye of the beholder, And also highly situational. Whilst one team may of course value Banes higher due to potential fit or intangibles, Or perhaps even having a positional need addressed by that prospects specific trademark or elite attributes, Another team may of course have him much lower on their board, As that prospect isn't a necessity for varying reasons. And whilst in a normal draft, Such a consideration at the 10th pick would/ should be considered silly or unnecessary, This draft is relatively devoid of high end talent, And many prospects in the 9-20 range have by consensus opinion been found to be quite similiar in terms of upside and potential outcome or impact. So a prospect such as Bane, With a strong frame, high basketball IQ, High motor and work ethic, secondary play making ability, defensive switchability ( due to frame) And most importantly ELITE floor spacing ability, Would in this unique environment, have escalated value due to a higher floor. And also, A greater perceived view of being a reliable and consistent contributor, Due to his intangibles, And translatable skills. So in that respect, It really wouldn't be deemed to be as much of a reach.

I do really like Tyler Bet though. And would agree on his ideal fit next to Ayton.

I am not saying bane does not have value, but the tyranasaurus arms limit it and older prospects tend to improve less then younger ones. Bane turned 22 back in June, he will turn 23 durring the next season. I bet in 2 years Nesmith will look much better then he does now just as Bane is better then he was when he was 20. I really do like his secondary play making but I don't see him going before 20, he wingspan is more important then height, you don't block shots with your head and his wingspan is not great for a PG. Given his age, lack of burst, short arms I don't think 14-18 are reasonable for him, if you want to be sure you are getting him at 19 or 20 if the gm loves him fine, but you should be doing 2 trades back then because he might be available in the 2nd round. Ringer has him at 30, ESPN has him ranked in the 30's CBS has him at 21 the nbadraft.net consensus Mock has him in the 2nd round. It is subjective, but I don't think he is good value into the mid to late twenties.
He can be a good rotational player but I don't see him being a good starter. He can shoot and he can pass, but I think big wings will eat him alive.

[Spin Move]

I don't understand the Nesmith hype. He obviously shot the ball extremely well from 3 for 1 year, but doesn't give you much anything else. He may have good measurables, but he's not that great of a defender either.

Watch some of his tape if you have not, you will see why everyone who does likes him he really does have the Ray Allen/Klay run run run get open make three game. yes it was a limited number of games but extremly high volume he took 113 threes last year, compare that to say Vassel and Okoro, Vassell shot 106 3's Okoro 70. He is a good athlete and a smart player, average out his 2 years and he is a 42% shooter from 3 with lots of hustle, great length and good athleticism. His floor is good and he has a really high ceiling. He needs to improve his handle a little and get a big stronger to do better driving but the way he moves around the court opens things up not only for himself but also for other players.

Well if that is your main argument for putting him signficantly higher than Bane, Bane shot 208 3s last year, and hit over 44%. He also shot over 43% in his 4 years. Nesmith shot 33.7% as a freshman and 41% overall over his 2 years.

Bane is a far better defender and distributor, and you could argue a better 3 pt shooter if you consider sample size. He shot 575 3s in college and hit over 43%. Our backup guard is Cameron Payne, who had one good small stretch where over half the teams had all stars our or rested their key players.

If Paul goes down, we need an NBA ready player that can play off Booker (or relieve Booker when he rests)...Bane and Paul as a defensive guard duo would be very tough, much tougher than Booker and Payne, or Booker and Paul. Bane is a similar player to Brogdon who, in hindsight would have gone a lot higher. I figure if the Suns don't take Bane, he goes in the mid teens or at the latest, late teens.

We already have Bridges and Cam, who can play together or back one another up if the team signs more of a true PF to start.

Theoretically I do like a super stretched floor to give Booker and Paul a ton of space, especially with Ayton in the middle, but Bane can provide that as well.

Okoro isn't a 3 pt shooter so it makes sense and was smart not to take a lot of attempts. Vassell is a 3&D guy.

I think Cam already has those traits that you mention in Nesmith that are Klay-like.

Bane also played in a significantly tougher conference than Nesmith, or Kira or Terry.

See above post but to summerize Bane is 2 years older which limits his upside, his arms are much shorter and he is not nearly as fast. Cam is already 24 and turning 25 and will improve some more but proabbly not a ton, he is a good shooter but he does not provide the constant motion that nesmith does, Bane is a better comp for him as an older player (I understand he does not have his secondary playmaking) but Bane will likley be a liability on defense long term. I agree it would be wiser to take a 1 or 4 with #10 if we are keeping it. With that said Nesmith is a MUCH better prospect then bane due to his athleticsm age, wingpsan and upside.

[Spin Move]

I'm fine with Bane anywhere from 14- 20 But with any prospect really, Value is largely " Eye of the beholder, And also highly situational. Whilst one team may of course value Banes higher due to potential fit or intangibles, Or perhaps even having a positional need addressed by that prospects specific trademark or elite attributes, Another team may of course have him much lower on their board, As that prospect isn't a necessity for varying reasons. And whilst in a normal draft, Such a consideration at the 10th pick would/ should be considered silly or unnecessary, This draft is relatively devoid of high end talent, And many prospects in the 9-20 range have by consensus opinion been found to be quite similiar in terms of upside and potential outcome or impact. So a prospect such as Bane, With a strong frame, high basketball IQ, High motor and work ethic, secondary play making ability, defensive switchability ( due to frame) And most importantly ELITE floor spacing ability, Would in this unique environment, have escalated value due to a higher floor. And also, A greater perceived view of being a reliable and consistent contributor, Due to his intangibles, And translatable skills. So in that respect, It really wouldn't be deemed to be as much of a reach.

I do really like Tyler Bet though. And would agree on his ideal fit next to Ayton.

So you'd take who at if the usual suspects were gone? Kira Lewis? What 4 guys 10-13 do you have above him, assuming Vassell, Hayes, and the other guys projected in the top 9 go there? I guess maybe there are 10 and I'm not considering Patrick Williams, but lets throw Okoro out too.

I trade down a couple spots and take a lewis or Jalen smith in that Scenario, plenty of teams want to move up to 10 get another asset if there is no one you love there, but someone from the top 9 is likley to drop I would take Haliburton Topin Avedja Hayes Okongwu etc if they are there, if not you can easily get another first by dropping a couple spots especially if you think there is little difference between prospects like Kira Lewis and Cole Anthony. If precious develops a jumper he would be amazing next to Ayton

[Ghost of Kleine]

Spoiler:

Watch some of his tape if you have not, you will see why everyone who does likes him he really does have the Ray Allen/Klay run run run get open make three game. yes it was a limited number of games but extremly high volume he took 113 threes last year, compare that to say Vassel and Okoro, Vassell shot 106 3's Okoro 70. He is a good athlete and a smart player, average out his 2 years and he is a 42% shooter from 3 with lots of hustle, great length and good athleticism. His floor is good and he has a really high ceiling. He needs to improve his handle a little and get a big stronger to do better driving but the way he moves around the court opens things up not only for himself but also for other players.

Well if that is your main argument for putting him signficantly higher than Bane, Bane shot 208 3s last year, and hit over 44%. He also shot over 43% in his 4 years. Nesmith shot 33.7% as a freshman and 41% overall over his 2 years.

Bane is a far better defender and distributor, and you could argue a better 3 pt shooter if you consider sample size. He shot 575 3s in college and hit over 43%. Our backup guard is Cameron Payne, who had one good small stretch where over half the teams had all stars our or rested their key players.

If Paul goes down, we need an NBA ready player that can play off Booker (or relieve Booker when he rests)...Bane and Paul as a defensive guard duo would be very tough, much tougher than Booker and Payne, or Booker and Paul. Bane is a similar player to Brogdon who, in hindsight would have gone a lot higher. I figure if the Suns don't take Bane, he goes in the mid teens or at the latest, late teens.

We already have Bridges and Cam, who can play together or back one another up if the team signs more of a true PF to start.

Theoretically I do like a super stretched floor to give Booker and Paul a ton of space, especially with Ayton in the middle, but Bane can provide that as well.

Okoro isn't a 3 pt shooter so it makes sense and was smart not to take a lot of attempts. Vassell is a 3&D guy.

I think Cam already has those traits that you mention in Nesmith that are Klay-like.

Bane also played in a significantly tougher conference than Nesmith, or Kira or Terry.

This is why I've gotten higher on Bane (even at #10) and why I'm not so high on others, like (sorry GoK) Riller.

It's cool brother! I'm pretty high on Bane as well. And would still consider it great value to look at Riller even in the 2nd round if things were to play out like that!

[bwgood77]

Watch some of his tape if you have not, you will see why everyone who does likes him he really does have the Ray Allen/Klay run run run get open make three game. yes it was a limited number of games but extremly high volume he took 113 threes last year, compare that to say Vassel and Okoro, Vassell shot 106 3's Okoro 70. He is a good athlete and a smart player, average out his 2 years and he is a 42% shooter from 3 with lots of hustle, great length and good athleticism. His floor is good and he has a really high ceiling. He needs to improve his handle a little and get a big stronger to do better driving but the way he moves around the court opens things up not only for himself but also for other players.

Well if that is your main argument for putting him signficantly higher than Bane, Bane shot 208 3s last year, and hit over 44%. He also shot over 43% in his 4 years. Nesmith shot 33.7% as a freshman and 41% overall over his 2 years.

Bane is a far better defender and distributor, and you could argue a better 3 pt shooter if you consider sample size. He shot 575 3s in college and hit over 43%. Our backup guard is Cameron Payne, who had one good small stretch where over half the teams had all stars our or rested their key players.

If Paul goes down, we need an NBA ready player that can play off Booker (or relieve Booker when he rests)...Bane and Paul as a defensive guard duo would be very tough, much tougher than Booker and Payne, or Booker and Paul. Bane is a similar player to Brogdon who, in hindsight would have gone a lot higher. I figure if the Suns don't take Bane, he goes in the mid teens or at the latest, late teens.

We already have Bridges and Cam, who can play together or back one another up if the team signs more of a true PF to start.

Theoretically I do like a super stretched floor to give Booker and Paul a ton of space, especially with Ayton in the middle, but Bane can provide that as well.

Okoro isn't a 3 pt shooter so it makes sense and was smart not to take a lot of attempts. Vassell is a 3&D guy.

I think Cam already has those traits that you mention in Nesmith that are Klay-like.

Bane also played in a significantly tougher conference than Nesmith, or Kira or Terry.

See above post but to summerize Bane is 2 years older which limits his upside, his arms are much shorter and he is not nearly as fast. Cam is already 24 and turning 25 and will improve some more but proabbly not a ton, he is a good shooter but he does not provide the constant motion that nesmith does, Bane is a better comp for him as an older player (I understand he does not have his secondary playmaking) but Bane will likley be a liability on defense long term. I agree it would be wiser to take a 1 or 4 with #10 if we are keeping it. With that said Nesmith is a MUCH better prospect then bane due to his athleticsm age, wingpsan and upside.

I don't think wingspan matters as much for guards. He has a longer wingspan than Chris Paul, for example. I don't think age matters all that much. Steph Curry and Jimmy Butler played 3 years in college. Butler went 30th. Brogdon, Nash, Duncan, Draymond Green, etc, all went to college 4 years.

Everyone says he makes up for the wingspan with other things like intensity, IQ, hard work, dedication, being a gym rat, great team defender, etc.

[bwgood77]

I'm fine with Bane anywhere from 14- 20 But with any prospect really, Value is largely " Eye of the beholder, And also highly situational. Whilst one team may of course value Banes higher due to potential fit or intangibles, Or perhaps even having a positional need addressed by that prospects specific trademark or elite attributes, Another team may of course have him much lower on their board, As that prospect isn't a necessity for varying reasons. And whilst in a normal draft, Such a consideration at the 10th pick would/ should be considered silly or unnecessary, This draft is relatively devoid of high end talent, And many prospects in the 9-20 range have by consensus opinion been found to be quite similiar in terms of upside and potential outcome or impact. So a prospect such as Bane, With a strong frame, high basketball IQ, High motor and work ethic, secondary play making ability, defensive switchability ( due to frame) And most importantly ELITE floor spacing ability, Would in this unique environment, have escalated value due to a higher floor. And also, A greater perceived view of being a reliable and consistent contributor, Due to his intangibles, And translatable skills. So in that respect, It really wouldn't be deemed to be as much of a reach.

I do really like Tyler Bet though. And would agree on his ideal fit next to Ayton.

So you'd take who at if the usual suspects were gone? Kira Lewis? What 4 guys 10-13 do you have above him, assuming Vassell, Hayes, and the other guys projected in the top 9 go there? I guess maybe there are 10 and I'm not considering Patrick Williams, but lets throw Okoro out too.

I trade down a couple spots and take a lewis or Jalen smith in that Scenario, plenty of teams want to move up to 10 get another asset if there is no one you love there, but someone from the top 9 is likley to drop I would take Haliburton Topin Avedja Hayes Okongwu etc if they are there, if not you can easily get another first by dropping a couple spots especially if you think there is little difference between prospects like Kira Lewis and Cole Anthony. If precious develops a jumper he would be amazing next to Ayton

You don't know if you can trade down though. Those teams behind you may like 2-4 guys equally. I'm of the general opinion that if you want a guy, and feel he's your guy, he fits your team the best, is more of a sure thing, etc, you take him and don't risk missing him.

Yeah, Haliburton, Toppin and Avdija are obvious picks, if there, and probably Hayes.

[Spin Move]

Well if that is your main argument for putting him signficantly higher than Bane, Bane shot 208 3s last year, and hit over 44%. He also shot over 43% in his 4 years. Nesmith shot 33.7% as a freshman and 41% overall over his 2 years.

Bane is a far better defender and distributor, and you could argue a better 3 pt shooter if you consider sample size. He shot 575 3s in college and hit over 43%. Our backup guard is Cameron Payne, who had one good small stretch where over half the teams had all stars our or rested their key players.

If Paul goes down, we need an NBA ready player that can play off Booker (or relieve Booker when he rests)...Bane and Paul as a defensive guard duo would be very tough, much tougher than Booker and Payne, or Booker and Paul. Bane is a similar player to Brogdon who, in hindsight would have gone a lot higher. I figure if the Suns don't take Bane, he goes in the mid teens or at the latest, late teens.

We already have Bridges and Cam, who can play together or back one another up if the team signs more of a true PF to start.

Theoretically I do like a super stretched floor to give Booker and Paul a ton of space, especially with Ayton in the middle, but Bane can provide that as well.

Okoro isn't a 3 pt shooter so it makes sense and was smart not to take a lot of attempts. Vassell is a 3&D guy.

I think Cam already has those traits that you mention in Nesmith that are Klay-like.

Bane also played in a significantly tougher conference than Nesmith, or Kira or Terry.

See above post but to summerize Bane is 2 years older which limits his upside, his arms are much shorter and he is not nearly as fast. Cam is already 24 and turning 25 and will improve some more but proabbly not a ton, he is a good shooter but he does not provide the constant motion that nesmith does, Bane is a better comp for him as an older player (I understand he does not have his secondary playmaking) but Bane will likley be a liability on defense long term. I agree it would be wiser to take a 1 or 4 with #10 if we are keeping it. With that said Nesmith is a MUCH better prospect then bane due to his athleticsm age, wingpsan and upside.

I don't think wingspan matters as much for guards. He has a longer wingspan than Chris Paul, for example. I don't think age matters all that much. Steph Curry and Jimmy Butler played 3 years in college. Butler went 30th. Brogdon, Nash, Duncan, Draymond Green, etc, all went to college 4 years.

Everyone says he makes up for the wingspan with other things like intensity, IQ, hard work, dedication, being a gym rat, great team defender, etc.

He is not a PG though he is an SG which means he will switch onto 6'8 guys with wingspans over 7 feet regulerly and they will shoot right over him, respectfully disagree wingspan is much more important then height and his is badly negative. Yes some players develop later but a 22 year old has an unfair body maturity advantage over 19 year olds and its easier for them to put up college stats. I think Bane's shooting absolutly will translate and I think he will work hard and compete but he lacks the speed to gaurd PG;s and the Jayson Tatums and Paul Georges of the world will just be shooting right over him abusing him so he is completly non switchable killing his value. I would spend pick 27 on him as a solid bench player why not, he has the shooting which is an nba skill and so is the passing but he won't be a good nba defender.

[Spin Move]

So you'd take who at if the usual suspects were gone? Kira Lewis? What 4 guys 10-13 do you have above him, assuming Vassell, Hayes, and the other guys projected in the top 9 go there? I guess maybe there are 10 and I'm not considering Patrick Williams, but lets throw Okoro out too.

I trade down a couple spots and take a lewis or Jalen smith in that Scenario, plenty of teams want to move up to 10 get another asset if there is no one you love there, but someone from the top 9 is likley to drop I would take Haliburton Topin Avedja Hayes Okongwu etc if they are there, if not you can easily get another first by dropping a couple spots especially if you think there is little difference between prospects like Kira Lewis and Cole Anthony. If precious develops a jumper he would be amazing next to Ayton

You don't know if you can trade down though. Those teams behind you may like 2-4 guys equally. I'm of the general opinion that if you want a guy, and feel he's your guy, he fits your team the best, is more of a sure thing, etc, you take him and don't risk missing him.

Yeah, Haliburton, Toppin and Avdija are obvious picks, if there, and probably Hayes.

Most experts are saying the talent level between 10 and 18 is pretty flat there will be plenty of willing trade partners you just have to have a few guys you really like. Sacramento, Boston and New Orleans all have a bunch of picks that could be packaged to move around, Sacremento if they like a guy at 10 could package their 2 or 3 of their second rounder for a first and you could move back just a little and gain an asset, Boston has 26 and 30 and San Antonio also has multiple 2nd round picks that could probably be packegd for a pick in the 20's. Don't forget players can be added too so I think there will be lots of options, GM's fall in love with guys, I think there will be alot of trades this draft.

[Ghost of Kleine]

I'm fine with Bane anywhere from 14- 20 But with any prospect really, Value is largely " Eye of the beholder, And also highly situational. Whilst one team may of course value Banes higher due to potential fit or intangibles, Or perhaps even having a positional need addressed by that prospects specific trademark or elite attributes, Another team may of course have him much lower on their board, As that prospect isn't a necessity for varying reasons. And whilst in a normal draft, Such a consideration at the 10th pick would/ should be considered silly or unnecessary, This draft is relatively devoid of high end talent, And many prospects in the 9-20 range have by consensus opinion been found to be quite similiar in terms of upside and potential outcome or impact. So a prospect such as Bane, With a strong frame, high basketball IQ, High motor and work ethic, secondary play making ability, defensive switchability ( due to frame) And most importantly ELITE floor spacing ability, Would in this unique environment, have escalated value due to a higher floor. And also, A greater perceived view of being a reliable and consistent contributor, Due to his intangibles, And translatable skills. So in that respect, It really wouldn't be deemed to be as much of a reach.

I do really like Tyler Bet though. And would agree on his ideal fit next to Ayton.

So you'd take who at if the usual suspects were gone? Kira Lewis? What 4 guys 10-13 do you have above him, assuming Vassell, Hayes, and the other guys projected in the top 9 go there? I guess maybe there are 10 and I'm not considering Patrick Williams, but lets throw Okoro out too.

I trade down a couple spots and take a lewis or Jalen smith in that Scenario, plenty of teams want to move up to 10 get another asset if there is no one you love there, but someone from the top 9 is likley to drop I would take Haliburton Topin Avedja Hayes Okongwu etc if they are there, if not you can easily get another first by dropping a couple spots especially if you think there is little difference between prospects like Kira Lewis and Cole Anthony. If precious develops a jumper he would be amazing next to Ayton

My ideal situation playing out would be trading back to either 14 and 26 ( Boston), Or 17 and 33 ( Minnesota). And then taking Bane with the primary pick. And one of Tyler Bey or Xavier Tillman with the secondary pick! Or if the preference is to go with a big first in a trade back scenario, Then Maybe either Smith or Achiuwa at 14 or 16? And then either Bane or Malachi Flynn at 26. ( I figure both Lewis and Terry would already be gone before 20). Otherwise, I'd choose whoever falls? Then i'd purchase a late 2nd for either Sam Merrill, Or perhaps Justinian Jessup as a G league draft and stash development option. And call it a night. Another great combination though could be: trading the 10 for 18 and 31, Bane or Terry at 18, Xavier Tillman or Paul Reed at 31. Then purchasing a late 2nd for Nate Hinton. With this scenario, We'd add elite shooting ( Bane or Terry). Elite back court "Point of attack" defense (Hinton), And elite front court defense/ rim protection, If Reed) or Elite positional front court defense and front court passing IF Tillman)?

[Spin Move]

So you'd take who at if the usual suspects were gone? Kira Lewis? What 4 guys 10-13 do you have above him, assuming Vassell, Hayes, and the other guys projected in the top 9 go there? I guess maybe there are 10 and I'm not considering Patrick Williams, but lets throw Okoro out too.

I trade down a couple spots and take a lewis or Jalen smith in that Scenario, plenty of teams want to move up to 10 get another asset if there is no one you love there, but someone from the top 9 is likley to drop I would take Haliburton Topin Avedja Hayes Okongwu etc if they are there, if not you can easily get another first by dropping a couple spots especially if you think there is little difference between prospects like Kira Lewis and Cole Anthony. If precious develops a jumper he would be amazing next to Ayton

My ideal situation playing out would be trading back to either 14 and 26 ( Boston), Or 17 and 33 ( Minnesota). And then taking Bane with the primary pick. And one of Tyler Bey or Xavier Tillman with the secondary pick! Or if the preference is to go with a big first in a trade back scenario, Then Maybe either Smith or Achiuwa at 14 or 16? And then either Bane or Malachi Flynn at 26. ( I figure both Lewis and Terry would already be gone before 20). Otherwise, I'd choose whoever falls? Then i'd purchase a late 2nd for either Sam Merrill, Or perhaps Justinian Jessup as a G league draft and stash development option. And call it a night. Another great combination though could be: trading the 10 for 18 and 31, Bane or Terry at 18, Xavier Tillman or Paul Reed at 31. Then purchasing a late 2nd for Nate Hinton. With this scenario, We'd add elite shooting ( Bane or Terry). Elite back court "Point of attack" defense (Hinton), And elite front court defense/ rim protection, If Reed) or Elite positional front court defense and front court passing IF Tillman)?

I think this team has too many holes to spend a pick in the teens on Bane, Also I don't think 33 is enough value to move back to 17. I don't think Rubio is the long term answer at PG so If we can get a Kira Lewis at 14 (or a Jalen smith) and then take someone like a Paul Reed at 26 (do it all 4 whose defensive stats were off the charts in college and he measured well at the combine) I think that would be a good draft, Bey is another good choice, (I love Oturu as a backup C if we are picking late in the 1st) but I just see bigger needs elsewhere unless someone thinks a Willaims, Vassel or Nesmith can become a star. I would not move back later then 14 and think a move to 12 or 13 is very possible. Patrick Williams screams spurs pick if he is there at 10 so other teams may be trying to jump them to get him 35, 43 and 52 can get you back into the 20's with an extra second round pick to spare most likley. (though perhaps 2 picks in the 30's is better then 1 in the late 20's and one in the 50's) There are alot of good looking players 20-40 in this draft, Paul Reeds Oturo's Devin Dotsons etc. There are possabilites and again maybe even trading down again don't forget picks in future years or players. Perhaps we trade down to 12 and use those late picks to help facilitate a sign and trade for a guy like Christian woods.

[Ghost of Kleine]

I trade down a couple spots and take a lewis or Jalen smith in that Scenario, plenty of teams want to move up to 10 get another asset if there is no one you love there, but someone from the top 9 is likley to drop I would take Haliburton Topin Avedja Hayes Okongwu etc if they are there, if not you can easily get another first by dropping a couple spots especially if you think there is little difference between prospects like Kira Lewis and Cole Anthony. If precious develops a jumper he would be amazing next to Ayton

My ideal situation playing out would be trading back to either 14 and 26 ( Boston), Or 17 and 33 ( Minnesota). And then taking Bane with the primary pick. And one of Tyler Bey or Xavier Tillman with the secondary pick! Or if the preference is to go with a big first in a trade back scenario, Then Maybe either Smith or Achiuwa at 14 or 16? And then either Bane or Malachi Flynn at 26. ( I figure both Lewis and Terry would already be gone before 20). Otherwise, I'd choose whoever falls? Then i'd purchase a late 2nd for either Sam Merrill, Or perhaps Justinian Jessup as a G league draft and stash development option. And call it a night. Another great combination though could be: trading the 10 for 18 and 31, Bane or Terry at 18, Xavier Tillman or Paul Reed at 31. Then purchasing a late 2nd for Nate Hinton. With this scenario, We'd add elite shooting ( Bane or Terry). Elite back court "Point of attack" defense (Hinton), And elite front court defense/ rim protection, If Reed) or Elite positional front court defense and front court passing IF Tillman)?

I think this team has too many holes to spend a pick in the teens on Bane, Also I don't think 33 is enough value to move back to 17. I don't think Rubio is the long term answer at PG so If we can get a Kira Lewis at 14 (or a Jalen smith) and then take someone like a Paul Reed at 26 (do it all 4 whose defensive stats were off the charts in college and he measured well at the combine) I think that would be a good draft, Bey is another good choice, (I love Oturu as a backup C if we are picking late in the 1st) but I just see bigger needs elsewhere unless someone thinks a Willaims, Vassel or Nesmith can become a star. I would not move back later then 14 and think a move to 12 or 13 is very possible. Patrick Williams screams spurs pick if he is there at 10 so other teams may be trying to jump them to get him 35, 43 and 52 can get you back into the 20's with an extra second round pick to spare most likley. (though perhaps 2 picks in the 30's is better then 1 in the late 20's and one in the 50's) There are alot of good looking players 20-40 in this draft, Paul Reeds Oturo's Devin Dotsons etc. There are possabilites and again maybe even trading down again don't forget picks in future years or players. Perhaps we trade down to 12 and use those late picks to help facilitate a sign and trade for a guy like Christian woods.

I have to say you make a very, very good argument man! You also happen to like the exact same players that I've frequently also suggested over the past few months as well. So awesome to have others with knowledge recognize their value too. I really can't find anything that I could possibly disagree with in your premise either. Any of your proposals would definitely be an A+ draft night outcome for us! And that's even with me being very high on Bane for his elite shooting potential, And strong frame switchability. All in all, Great post.

[Ghost of Kleine]

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[bwgood77]

I trade down a couple spots and take a lewis or Jalen smith in that Scenario, plenty of teams want to move up to 10 get another asset if there is no one you love there, but someone from the top 9 is likley to drop I would take Haliburton Topin Avedja Hayes Okongwu etc if they are there, if not you can easily get another first by dropping a couple spots especially if you think there is little difference between prospects like Kira Lewis and Cole Anthony. If precious develops a jumper he would be amazing next to Ayton

You don't know if you can trade down though. Those teams behind you may like 2-4 guys equally. I'm of the general opinion that if you want a guy, and feel he's your guy, he fits your team the best, is more of a sure thing, etc, you take him and don't risk missing him.

Yeah, Haliburton, Toppin and Avdija are obvious picks, if there, and probably Hayes.

Most experts are saying the talent level between 10 and 18 is pretty flat there will be plenty of willing trade partners you just have to have a few guys you really like. Sacramento, Boston and New Orleans all have a bunch of picks that could be packaged to move around, Sacremento if they like a guy at 10 could package their 2 or 3 of their second rounder for a first and you could move back just a little and gain an asset, Boston has 26 and 30 and San Antonio also has multiple 2nd round picks that could probably be packegd for a pick in the 20's. Don't forget players can be added too so I think there will be lots of options, GM's fall in love with guys, I think there will be alot of trades this draft.

Yeah, being that the talent level if pretty flat between 10 and 18 is why I don't think you'd have much of an option to trade down a couple spots and gain much. Sure, a team might say. Maybe you could get a 2nd protected through 45 or 50 to move up a couple spots or possibly a pick in the early 40s if a team was really worried someone else was going to take who they wanted with the pick in between yours and their's.

Now if they move up from 20 to 10, outside where maybe it's flat...you could probably get something better, like a decent player and a 2nd or a couple 2nds, or possibly a future protected 1st.

[bwgood77]

I'm fine with Bane anywhere from 14- 20 But with any prospect really, Value is largely " Eye of the beholder, And also highly situational. Whilst one team may of course value Banes higher due to potential fit or intangibles, Or perhaps even having a positional need addressed by that prospects specific trademark or elite attributes, Another team may of course have him much lower on their board, As that prospect isn't a necessity for varying reasons. And whilst in a normal draft, Such a consideration at the 10th pick would/ should be considered silly or unnecessary, This draft is relatively devoid of high end talent, And many prospects in the 9-20 range have by consensus opinion been found to be quite similiar in terms of upside and potential outcome or impact. So a prospect such as Bane, With a strong frame, high basketball IQ, High motor and work ethic, secondary play making ability, defensive switchability ( due to frame) And most importantly ELITE floor spacing ability, Would in this unique environment, have escalated value due to a higher floor. And also, A greater perceived view of being a reliable and consistent contributor, Due to his intangibles, And translatable skills. So in that respect, It really wouldn't be deemed to be as much of a reach.

I do really like Tyler Bet though. And would agree on his ideal fit next to Ayton.

So you'd take who at if the usual suspects were gone? Kira Lewis? What 4 guys 10-13 do you have above him, assuming Vassell, Hayes, and the other guys projected in the top 9 go there? I guess maybe there are 10 and I'm not considering Patrick Williams, but lets throw Okoro out too.

[Spin Move]

You don't know if you can trade down though. Those teams behind you may like 2-4 guys equally. I'm of the general opinion that if you want a guy, and feel he's your guy, he fits your team the best, is more of a sure thing, etc, you take him and don't risk missing him.

Yeah, Haliburton, Toppin and Avdija are obvious picks, if there, and probably Hayes.

Most experts are saying the talent level between 10 and 18 is pretty flat there will be plenty of willing trade partners you just have to have a few guys you really like. Sacramento, Boston and New Orleans all have a bunch of picks that could be packaged to move around, Sacremento if they like a guy at 10 could package their 2 or 3 of their second rounder for a first and you could move back just a little and gain an asset, Boston has 26 and 30 and San Antonio also has multiple 2nd round picks that could probably be packegd for a pick in the 20's. Don't forget players can be added too so I think there will be lots of options, GM's fall in love with guys, I think there will be alot of trades this draft.

Yeah, being that the talent level if pretty flat between 10 and 18 is why I don't think you'd have much of an option to trade down a couple spots and gain much. Sure, a team might say. Maybe you could get a 2nd protected through 45 or 50 to move up a couple spots or possibly a pick in the early 40s if a team was really worried someone else was going to take who they wanted with the pick in between yours and their's.

Now if they move up from 20 to 10, outside where maybe it's flat...you could probably get something better, like a decent player and a 2nd or a couple 2nds, or possibly a future protected 1st.

As a fan who regulery posts on the celtics board I can tell you the fans would gladly trade at least one of 26 and 30 to move up to 10. It depends on who is there, but someone almost always drops and if you don;t want the dropper someone else will.

[bwgood77]

Most experts are saying the talent level between 10 and 18 is pretty flat there will be plenty of willing trade partners you just have to have a few guys you really like. Sacramento, Boston and New Orleans all have a bunch of picks that could be packaged to move around, Sacremento if they like a guy at 10 could package their 2 or 3 of their second rounder for a first and you could move back just a little and gain an asset, Boston has 26 and 30 and San Antonio also has multiple 2nd round picks that could probably be packegd for a pick in the 20's. Don't forget players can be added too so I think there will be lots of options, GM's fall in love with guys, I think there will be alot of trades this draft.

Yeah, being that the talent level if pretty flat between 10 and 18 is why I don't think you'd have much of an option to trade down a couple spots and gain much. Sure, a team might say. Maybe you could get a 2nd protected through 45 or 50 to move up a couple spots or possibly a pick in the early 40s if a team was really worried someone else was going to take who they wanted with the pick in between yours and their's.

Now if they move up from 20 to 10, outside where maybe it's flat...you could probably get something better, like a decent player and a 2nd or a couple 2nds, or possibly a future protected 1st.

As a fan who regulery posts on the celtics board I can tell you the fans would gladly trade at least one of 26 and 30 to move up to 10. It depends on who is there, but someone almost always drops and if you don;t want the dropper someone else will.

Yeah, I've advocated for that. I think a pick in that range makes sense to move up 4 spots. But to move up just a couple of spots, it is likely a pick around the 40s, and to move up 10 spots, like I said, a couple of 2nds, a decent player or possibly a protected future 1st.

[Spin Move]

Yeah, being that the talent level if pretty flat between 10 and 18 is why I don't think you'd have much of an option to trade down a couple spots and gain much. Sure, a team might say. Maybe you could get a 2nd protected through 45 or 50 to move up a couple spots or possibly a pick in the early 40s if a team was really worried someone else was going to take who they wanted with the pick in between yours and their's.

Now if they move up from 20 to 10, outside where maybe it's flat...you could probably get something better, like a decent player and a 2nd or a couple 2nds, or possibly a future protected 1st.

As a fan who regulery posts on the celtics board I can tell you the fans would gladly trade at least one of 26 and 30 to move up to 10. It depends on who is there, but someone almost always drops and if you don;t want the dropper someone else will.

Yeah, I've advocated for that. I think a pick in that range makes sense to move up 4 spots. But to move up just a couple of spots, it is likely a pick around the 40s, and to move up 10 spots, like I said, a couple of 2nds, a decent player or possibly a protected future 1st.

I would absolutely take a protected 1st for next years stacked draft, a pick in the late teens next year may be worth more then 10 this year.

[bwgood77]

As a fan who regulery posts on the celtics board I can tell you the fans would gladly trade at least one of 26 and 30 to move up to 10. It depends on who is there, but someone almost always drops and if you don;t want the dropper someone else will.

Yeah, I've advocated for that. I think a pick in that range makes sense to move up 4 spots. But to move up just a couple of spots, it is likely a pick around the 40s, and to move up 10 spots, like I said, a couple of 2nds, a decent player or possibly a protected future 1st.

I would absolutely take a protected 1st for next years stacked draft, a pick in the late teens next year may be worth more then 10 this year.

Oh yeah, if we could move down from 10 to 20 AND add a protected first, me too.