2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation 4 - A Rocky Start

[Book1Nation]

excellent article from the Ringer. I had no idea our shotmaking was so great with the big 3 on the floor. every zone except for above the break 3 is in the high 90s in terms of percentiles.

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2024/1/25/24049830/phoenix-suns-offense-big-three-nba-all-star-snubs-kram-session

As good as Allen has been, I think this article sums up why he won't get an absurd type of deal. He's getting wide open looks because of who he's playing with.
Other GM's know this and I'm not sure many contenders out there could afford someone like him.
And why would a team like Charlotte go and offer him 20-25mil. Or Detroit. Yes he's an elite shooter, but what happens when teams don't have to sag off?
Hopefully a team out there doesn't make a boneheaded decision to do this.

Suns have his bird rights.

Either they want to keep him and it just costs Ishbia $$ or they don't. Doesn't matter what anyone else offers. Suns can pay him whatever.

[Slim Charless]

Read on Twitter

Beal is a strong ****, especially for his size.

Book was putting up the best #s of his career to start the season when he was playing more pg. Now with Beal back at point, Book at SG is where he has struggled.

So he's not really playing out of position. He may get more assists than Beal but they have said Beal is the starting PG before the season.

I have repeatedly blamed our issues on BBB and the coach. That is either BAD BACK BEAL or is it BARGAIN BASEMENT BEAL.

He does nothing for me or our team. Probably the worst acquisition we could have made. Why was such a bargain available for so little.

This team needed a replacement for CP3, a legit 3 and D Wing and a defensive rebounding 4/5. We did this via the Veteran minimums we have signed. Those acquisition for those most part have failed. BBB does nothing in any of those areas. All he does is shoot poorly while not helping this team in any way win games.

This team would be better off without him.

It's like we bought this great valued used car, a good evaluation of BBB, and the transmission blew up after the 1st week. Hell, we never got the 1st week.

Now we are stuck with this guy for 4 more freaking years.

Booker would be better off without BBB, it is clear as day. This is not the BIG 3 that we were sold on by James Jones/Ishbia. Alll we have in a new player that is not performing eating up a $50 Million roster spot for this year and the foreseeable future. We are screwed.

However, you would think that our OVER RATED, CHAMPIONSHIP, DEFENSIVE HEAD COACH could fix the situation.

You guys need to inform a certain poster of this. He's been awfully quiet since the win streak...and Beal,s contributions to it.

Let's see if my favorite guy decides to comment and share his valuable thoughts.

[Slim Charless]

This is what I've been saying, we just needed time and chemistry. This is also why I hope we don't make any trades. Just keep what we have and try to make them all fit cohesively.

Getting an up and running machine is more important than minor improvements on the edges.

[WeekapaugGroove]

Shockingly a team built around 3 star players is better when all 3 guys are actually playing.

Sent from my SM-F731U using RealGM mobile app

[Ghost of Kleine]

The fact that we're even discussing this POS is a stench very unbecoming of this board.

It'll pass in a week or so. Personally, I'm more interested on how we can creatively be a 3rd team facilitator for another team that ends up with him. And we get solid complimentary pieces back or maybe one decent bench player and a draft asset........................ another 2nd or whatever if possible.

I'd think that if he goes to a contender, and we send Little and another vet min to Charlotte then maybe we can get something decent but not great back. It just depends upon what contender he'd be going to and what player or players they might need to offload at his position if necessary?

Other than that, I'm more interested in our buyout options and some of the unsigned vet min options that nobody else besides myself would likely consider anyways.....lol. I'm very adamant about us needing an athletic, switchable rim protector/ vertical gravity threat, and a solid lockdown perimeter defensive wing if possible. Lastly in order of importance would be a legit backup guard option to sustain our bench and provide insurance for our backcourt stars.

** Gambo mentioned in his podcast I shared earlier in the evan sidery tweet that PJ Tucker isn't getting bought out and we're not getting him. BUT that he strongly believes the suns WILL make some moves by the deadline no matter what.

I guess LAC knows he'd come here and doesn't want to help us. So they'd rather bury him on the bench than let him go to a contender he can contribute on

Very true man!

[King4Day]

excellent article from the Ringer. I had no idea our shotmaking was so great with the big 3 on the floor. every zone except for above the break 3 is in the high 90s in terms of percentiles.

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2024/1/25/24049830/phoenix-suns-offense-big-three-nba-all-star-snubs-kram-session

As good as Allen has been, I think this article sums up why he won't get an absurd type of deal. He's getting wide open looks because of who he's playing with.
Other GM's know this and I'm not sure many contenders out there could afford someone like him.
And why would a team like Charlotte go and offer him 20-25mil. Or Detroit. Yes he's an elite shooter, but what happens when teams don't have to sag off?
Hopefully a team out there doesn't make a boneheaded decision to do this.

Suns have his bird rights.

Either they want to keep him and it just costs Ishbia $$ or they don't. Doesn't matter what anyone else offers. Suns can pay him whatever.

Paying him 25mil could make him a bad / unmovable contract. I worry he's going to command what CamJo got.
Duncan Robinson was a lethal shooter until he got paid. Then he was awful. I know Allen can do more than him but point is, I'd fear a team would force our hand to overpay him big time.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Thoughts on the new release of the All star game jerseys??



I find them to be somewhat plain and uninteresting myself. But maybe other people might view them more favorably?

[spanishninja]

As good as Allen has been, I think this article sums up why he won't get an absurd type of deal. He's getting wide open looks because of who he's playing with.
Other GM's know this and I'm not sure many contenders out there could afford someone like him.
And why would a team like Charlotte go and offer him 20-25mil. Or Detroit. Yes he's an elite shooter, but what happens when teams don't have to sag off?
Hopefully a team out there doesn't make a boneheaded decision to do this.

Suns have his bird rights.

Either they want to keep him and it just costs Ishbia $$ or they don't. Doesn't matter what anyone else offers. Suns can pay him whatever.

Paying him 25mil could make him a bad / unmovable contract. I worry he's going to command what CamJo got.
Duncan Robinson was a lethal shooter until he got paid. Then he was awful. I know Allen can do more than him but point is, I'd fear a team would force our hand to overpay him big time.

yeah, very critical for us to consider all new deals with future tradeability in mind.

[Book1Nation]

As good as Allen has been, I think this article sums up why he won't get an absurd type of deal. He's getting wide open looks because of who he's playing with.
Other GM's know this and I'm not sure many contenders out there could afford someone like him.
And why would a team like Charlotte go and offer him 20-25mil. Or Detroit. Yes he's an elite shooter, but what happens when teams don't have to sag off?
Hopefully a team out there doesn't make a boneheaded decision to do this.

Suns have his bird rights.

Either they want to keep him and it just costs Ishbia $$ or they don't. Doesn't matter what anyone else offers. Suns can pay him whatever.

Paying him 25mil could make him a bad / unmovable contract. I worry he's going to command what CamJo got.
Duncan Robinson was a lethal shooter until he got paid. Then he was awful. I know Allen can do more than him but point is, I'd fear a team would force our hand to overpay him big time.

I don't see him getting anywhere near 25/year. I think his sweet spot is 15-18.

Other role guards in that range include Gary Trent Jr, Derrick White, Duncan Robinson, Norman Powell, Tim Hardaway Jr, D'Angelo Russell, Kevin Huerter, Caris LeVert, Luguentz Dort, Luke Kennard, Kentavious Caldwell-Pope, Max Strus.

Imo that's about right. He wouldn't be the best player in that group but also would hold his own against most of that list.

[bigfoot]

This long road trip is just what the doctor ordered. Suns will get a chance to really focus on team building and trying to sustain a long win streak. Front office will get a good chance to see what needs to be added to the big three, if anything. Would be awesome if they could make ground get into contention for home court advantage in the 1st round. Also, a Bol Bol sighting woud be appreciated.

[Book1Nation]

This long road trip is just what the doctor ordered. Suns will get a chance to really focus on team building and trying to sustain a long win streak. Front office will get a good chance to see what needs to be added to the big three, if anything. Would be awesome if they could make ground get into contention for home court advantage in the 1st round. Also, a Bol Bol sighting woud be appreciated.

Agree. Would love to be a top 4 seed but what might be even more important than that is avoiding the Nuggets at all costs. They might be the only team we can't mess with because of Jokic and their overall size with Gordon and MPJ.

Sacramento, OKC, Clippers would all bring different challenges of their own but I think there's a path to winning with those teams.

Minnesota is completely fraudulent. Not buying them at all.

[Slim Charless]

This long road trip is just what the doctor ordered. Suns will get a chance to really focus on team building and trying to sustain a long win streak. Front office will get a good chance to see what needs to be added to the big three, if anything. Would be awesome if they could make ground get into contention for home court advantage in the 1st round. Also, a Bol Bol sighting woud be appreciated.

Agree. Would love to be a top 4 seed but what might be even more important than that is avoiding the Nuggets at all costs. They might be the only team we can't mess with because of Jokic and their overall size with Gordon and MPJ.

Sacramento, OKC, Clippers would all bring different challenges of their own but I think there's a path to winning with those teams.

Minnesota is completely fraudulent. Not buying them at all.

Those top teams are too close to figure out. I just want more time for everyone together

[SunsRback4Good]

This long road trip is just what the doctor ordered. Suns will get a chance to really focus on team building and trying to sustain a long win streak. Front office will get a good chance to see what needs to be added to the big three, if anything. Would be awesome if they could make ground get into contention for home court advantage in the 1st round. Also, a Bol Bol sighting woud be appreciated.

I wanted a 15+ game winning streak but this long 6 or 7 game road trip will ruin those chances. It’s fine though since Suns actually have a better record on the road versus at home. We are no longer hunters but “the hunted” so every team we face will bring in their “A” game.

[SunsRback4Good]

This long road trip is just what the doctor ordered. Suns will get a chance to really focus on team building and trying to sustain a long win streak. Front office will get a good chance to see what needs to be added to the big three, if anything. Would be awesome if they could make ground get into contention for home court advantage in the 1st round. Also, a Bol Bol sighting woud be appreciated.

Agree. Would love to be a top 4 seed but what might be even more important than that is avoiding the Nuggets at all costs. They might be the only team we can't mess with because of Jokic and their overall size with Gordon and MPJ.

Sacramento, OKC, Clippers would all bring different challenges of their own but I think there's a path to winning with those teams.

Minnesota is completely fraudulent. Not buying them at all.

Teams that are consistent throughout the season I don’t see them as fraudulent. This T-Wolves team is twice better than the first place seed Jazz 2-3 seasons ago. Once they traded the youngsters and brought in vets like Gobert and Conley made them a serious contender. Now Anthony Edwards has matured and taken the next step along with Towns. This team is legit you gotta trust me man.

[SunsRback4Good]

This long road trip is just what the doctor ordered. Suns will get a chance to really focus on team building and trying to sustain a long win streak. Front office will get a good chance to see what needs to be added to the big three, if anything. Would be awesome if they could make ground get into contention for home court advantage in the 1st round. Also, a Bol Bol sighting woud be appreciated.

Agree. Would love to be a top 4 seed but what might be even more important than that is avoiding the Nuggets at all costs. They might be the only team we can't mess with because of Jokic and their overall size with Gordon and MPJ.

Sacramento, OKC, Clippers would all bring different challenges of their own but I think there's a path to winning with those teams.

Minnesota is completely fraudulent. Not buying them at all.

Teams that are consistent throughout the season I don’t see them as fraudulent. This T-Wolves team is twice better than the first place seed Jazz 2-3 seasons ago. Once they traded the youngsters and brought in vets like Gobert and Conley made them a serious contender. Now Anthony Edwards has matured and taken the next step along with Towns. This team is legit you gotta trust me man.

[SunsRback4Good]

This long road trip is just what the doctor ordered. Suns will get a chance to really focus on team building and trying to sustain a long win streak. Front office will get a good chance to see what needs to be added to the big three, if anything. Would be awesome if they could make ground get into contention for home court advantage in the 1st round. Also, a Bol Bol sighting woud be appreciated.

Agree. Would love to be a top 4 seed but what might be even more important than that is avoiding the Nuggets at all costs. They might be the only team we can't mess with because of Jokic and their overall size with Gordon and MPJ.

Sacramento, OKC, Clippers would all bring different challenges of their own but I think there's a path to winning with those teams.

Minnesota is completely fraudulent. Not buying them at all.

Teams that are consistent throughout the season I don’t see them as fraudulent. This T-Wolves team is twice better than the first place seed Jazz 2-3 seasons ago. Once they traded the youngsters and brought in vets like Gobert and Conley made them a serious contender. Now Anthony Edwards has matured and taken the next step along with Towns. This team is legit you gotta trust me man.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Suns have his bird rights.

Either they want to keep him and it just costs Ishbia $$ or they don't. Doesn't matter what anyone else offers. Suns can pay him whatever.

Paying him 25mil could make him a bad / unmovable contract. I worry he's going to command what CamJo got.
Duncan Robinson was a lethal shooter until he got paid. Then he was awful. I know Allen can do more than him but point is, I'd fear a team would force our hand to overpay him big time.

I don't see him getting anywhere near 25/year. I think his sweet spot is 15-18.

Other role guards in that range include Gary Trent Jr, Derrick White, Duncan Robinson, Norman Powell, Tim Hardaway Jr, D'Angelo Russell, Kevin Huerter, Caris LeVert, Luguentz Dort, Luke Kennard, Kentavious Caldwell-Pope, Max Strus.

Imo that's about right. He wouldn't be the best player in that group but also would hold his own against most of that list.

You could absolutely be right of course man! But don't you think it's maybe also possible that a lottery team with cap space or some other team could give him a similar offer to what Bruce Brown recieved? These teams are set to have significant cap space this summer:

Cap Space Teams – 7 Teams
San Antonio Spurs: $55.3 million.
Orlando Magic: $51.3 million.
Utah Jazz: $41.6 million.
Charlotte Hornets: $40.7 million.
Detroit Pistons: $38.7 million.
Philadelphia 76ers: $32.9 million.
Washington Wizards: $20.1 million.
Aug 15, 2023

Of these teams, how many do you think could use a top notch 3 pt shooting 2 guard with a versatile skillset? For my part, I'd think all of them honestly. And if you think that Grayson Allen is at all comparable or better (as a shooter) than Bruce Brown, then wouldn't you figure his market value (if he sustains his efficiency and production) would be equitable to Brown' deal?

[Book1Nation]

Paying him 25mil could make him a bad / unmovable contract. I worry he's going to command what CamJo got.
Duncan Robinson was a lethal shooter until he got paid. Then he was awful. I know Allen can do more than him but point is, I'd fear a team would force our hand to overpay him big time.

I don't see him getting anywhere near 25/year. I think his sweet spot is 15-18.

Other role guards in that range include Gary Trent Jr, Derrick White, Duncan Robinson, Norman Powell, Tim Hardaway Jr, D'Angelo Russell, Kevin Huerter, Caris LeVert, Luguentz Dort, Luke Kennard, Kentavious Caldwell-Pope, Max Strus.

Imo that's about right. He wouldn't be the best player in that group but also would hold his own against most of that list.

You could absolutely be right of course man! But don't you think it's maybe also possible that a lottery team with cap space or some other team could give him a similar offer to what Bruce Brown recieved? These teams are set to have significant cap space this summer:

Cap Space Teams – 7 Teams
San Antonio Spurs: $55.3 million.
Orlando Magic: $51.3 million.
Utah Jazz: $41.6 million.
Charlotte Hornets: $40.7 million.
Detroit Pistons: $38.7 million.
Philadelphia 76ers: $32.9 million.
Washington Wizards: $20.1 million.
Aug 15, 2023

Of these teams, how many do you think could use a top notch 3 pt shooting 2 guard with a versatile skillset? For my part, I'd think all of them honestly. And if you think that Grayson Allen is at all comparable or better (as a shooter) than Bruce Brown, then wouldn't you figure his market value (if he sustains his efficiency and production) would be equitable to Brown' deal?

Browns market value got a boost because the Nuggets won the chip and teams are stupid and love to chase “championship DNA”

I hope Grayson gets the same boost and then I couldn’t care less where he goes

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

Paying him 25mil could make him a bad / unmovable contract. I worry he's going to command what CamJo got.
Duncan Robinson was a lethal shooter until he got paid. Then he was awful. I know Allen can do more than him but point is, I'd fear a team would force our hand to overpay him big time.

I don't see him getting anywhere near 25/year. I think his sweet spot is 15-18.

Other role guards in that range include Gary Trent Jr, Derrick White, Duncan Robinson, Norman Powell, Tim Hardaway Jr, D'Angelo Russell, Kevin Huerter, Caris LeVert, Luguentz Dort, Luke Kennard, Kentavious Caldwell-Pope, Max Strus.

Imo that's about right. He wouldn't be the best player in that group but also would hold his own against most of that list.

You could absolutely be right of course man! But don't you think it's maybe also possible that a lottery team with cap space or some other team could give him a similar offer to what Bruce Brown recieved? These teams are set to have significant cap space this summer:

Cap Space Teams – 7 Teams
San Antonio Spurs: $55.3 million.
Orlando Magic: $51.3 million.
Utah Jazz: $41.6 million.
Charlotte Hornets: $40.7 million.
Detroit Pistons: $38.7 million.
Philadelphia 76ers: $32.9 million.
Washington Wizards: $20.1 million.
Aug 15, 2023

Of these teams, how many do you think could use a top notch 3 pt shooting 2 guard with a versatile skillset? For my part, I'd think all of them honestly. And if you think that Grayson Allen is at all comparable or better (as a shooter) than Bruce Brown, then wouldn't you figure his market value (if he sustains his efficiency and production) would be equitable to Brown' deal?

I just can't imagine we would deal Grayson. We're going all-in, right?

I agree, he will command a lot of money next season if he keeps this up. If we win it all, we probably won't be able to afford him, and we won't care since we'll have the chip. If we don't, it won't be because we didn't trade Grayson.

Maybe we'll shed more pick rights to move Little. Otherwise, I figure our best shot at improving this team is through buyouts and continuing to develop Bol Bol (fingers crossed!).

[lilfishi22]

This long road trip is just what the doctor ordered. Suns will get a chance to really focus on team building and trying to sustain a long win streak. Front office will get a good chance to see what needs to be added to the big three, if anything. Would be awesome if they could make ground get into contention for home court advantage in the 1st round. Also, a Bol Bol sighting woud be appreciated.

Agree. Would love to be a top 4 seed but what might be even more important than that is avoiding the Nuggets at all costs. They might be the only team we can't mess with because of Jokic and their overall size with Gordon and MPJ.

Sacramento, OKC, Clippers would all bring different challenges of their own but I think there's a path to winning with those teams.

Minnesota is completely fraudulent. Not buying them at all.

Teams that are consistent throughout the season I don’t see them as fraudulent. This T-Wolves team is twice better than the first place seed Jazz 2-3 seasons ago. Once they traded the youngsters and brought in vets like Gobert and Conley made them a serious contender. Now Anthony Edwards has matured and taken the next step along with Towns. This team is legit you gotta trust me man.

Wolves are legit but like pretty much every team, they have flaws.