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Draft Thread: Who do you want with the 13th pick? Stanley Johnson and WCS added..change votes if you want

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Which three guys would you most like to draft if they are there at 13?

Kevon Looney
23
11%
Devin Booker
18
9%
Myles Turner
38
18%
Frank Kaminsky
48
23%
Trey Lyles
13
6%
Bobby Portis
15
7%
Willie Cauley-Stein
18
9%
Rondae Hollis-Jefferson
9
4%
Stanley Johnson
17
8%
Montrezl Harrell
9
4%
 
Total votes: 208

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Re: Official Draft Thread: What should we do with the 13th and 43rd pick? 

Post#2341 » by SunsFanSSOL » Wed Jun 24, 2015 4:59 am

JMac1 wrote:Wow! I didn't know Kendall Marshall was player of the year in college and Channing Frye could pass, face-up, and had a post game :o


Marshall only stayed 2 years, whereas Kaminsky stayed 4. Had he stayed all 4 years he definitely would've gotten consideration considering he was a Cousy award winner his Sophomore year, when Frank was warming the bench.

Other notable older Naismith Players of the Year in recent memory: Doug McDermott, Tyler Hansborough, Evan Turner, Jimmer Fredette, all players who failed to adjust to the NBA.

As for Frye, he was considered a better prospect than Kaminsky, which is sad. Kaminsky's best case is what Frye did for us last season, some who gets beat up by NBA bigs, can't rebound and sticks around the perimeter for the duration of the game. Kaminsky will not have a post game in the NBA, he's a stick who was smart enough to be able to beat up on smaller, inexperienced freshman. His wingspan is pathetic, PJ Tucker is 6'5 and has a bigger wingspan. He is simply too weak and small to make a more significant impact in the NBA than what Frye gave us.

If the goal is to be 8th seed next season I can see McD taking him, we essentially get Frye back and pay him a rookie contract instead of the $8m/yr he got.
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Re: Official Draft Thread: What should we do with the 13th and 43rd pick? 

Post#2342 » by DRK » Wed Jun 24, 2015 5:02 am

JMac1 wrote:
DRK wrote:Can someone outline for me the infatuation with Kaminsky? Not long ago he wasnt even projected as a NBA Prospect, then one season later suddenly he's Lottery Potential?


If you have to ask, there is nothing anyone can tell you to get you to understand.


The question was somewhat rhetorical, as I outlined my points further down in my post.

Im not saying hes a bust, but I have serious concerns whether his skills can translate to the pros - especially with his physical limitations and much superior NBA defensive schemes.

Remember Frye coming out of college? People touted him as a "big man with a very versatile offensive game" at the college level. However, his "versatility" couldnt translate well to the pros due to the superior NBA defences. hence Frye had to remodel his game into the one-trick-pony we watched bomb away from the line for a few seasons straight.

The question I do want to ask is: Are we happy with drafting a worse shooting Channing Frye with our 13th pick?
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Re: Official Draft Thread: What should we do with the 13th and 43rd pick? 

Post#2343 » by DRK » Wed Jun 24, 2015 5:05 am

SunsFanSSOL wrote:
As for Frye, he was considered a better prospect than Kaminsky, which is sad. Kaminsky's best case is what Frye did for us last season, some who gets beat up by NBA bigs, can't rebound and sticks around the perimeter for the duration of the game. Kaminsky will not have a post game in the NBA, he's a stick who was smart enough to be able to beat up on smaller, inexperienced freshman. His wingspan is pathetic, PJ Tucker is 6'5 and has a bigger wingspan. He is simply too weak and small to make a more significant impact in the NBA than what Frye gave us.

If the goal is to be 8th seed next season I can see McD taking him, we essentially get Frye back and pay him a rookie contract instead of the $8m/yr he got.


Ahh beat me to it as I was typing my post.
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Re: Official Draft Thread: What should we do with the 13th and 43rd pick? Stanley Johnson added..change vote if you w 

Post#2344 » by JMac1 » Wed Jun 24, 2015 5:15 am

DRK and Sunsfan are the only people who compare Kaminsky to Frye. You can compare his height and 3pt shooting, but nothing else. But like i said.....it is a waste of time.

Then bringing up other players is just silly. You give me five players that were good n college and bust, I will give you 10 top ten picks that bust. It is a waste of time to use other players failures or successes.....it is irrelevant.
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Re: Official Draft Thread: What should we do with the 13th and 43rd pick? 

Post#2345 » by JMac1 » Wed Jun 24, 2015 5:17 am

DRK wrote:
SunsFanSSOL wrote:
As for Frye, he was considered a better prospect than Kaminsky, which is sad. Kaminsky's best case is what Frye did for us last season, some who gets beat up by NBA bigs, can't rebound and sticks around the perimeter for the duration of the game. Kaminsky will not have a post game in the NBA, he's a stick who was smart enough to be able to beat up on smaller, inexperienced freshman. His wingspan is pathetic, PJ Tucker is 6'5 and has a bigger wingspan. He is simply too weak and small to make a more significant impact in the NBA than what Frye gave us.

If the goal is to be 8th seed next season I can see McD taking him
, we essentially get Frye back and pay him a rookie contract instead of the $8m/yr he got.


Ahh beat me to it as I was typing my post.


The goal is to pick the best player.
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Re: Official Draft Thread: What should we do with the 13th and 43rd pick? 

Post#2346 » by SunsFanSSOL » Wed Jun 24, 2015 5:25 am

JMac1 wrote:
DRK wrote:
SunsFanSSOL wrote:
As for Frye, he was considered a better prospect than Kaminsky, which is sad. Kaminsky's best case is what Frye did for us last season, some who gets beat up by NBA bigs, can't rebound and sticks around the perimeter for the duration of the game. Kaminsky will not have a post game in the NBA, he's a stick who was smart enough to be able to beat up on smaller, inexperienced freshman. His wingspan is pathetic, PJ Tucker is 6'5 and has a bigger wingspan. He is simply too weak and small to make a more significant impact in the NBA than what Frye gave us.

If the goal is to be 8th seed next season I can see McD taking him
, we essentially get Frye back and pay him a rookie contract instead of the $8m/yr he got.


Ahh beat me to it as I was typing my post.


The goal is to pick the best player.


I'd rather pick a raw player who has all-star and high bust potential, than the safe pick with a low ceiling and low bust potential. Kaminsky will be a role player, not an Igoudala, Boris Diaw, Draymond Green, Tristan Thompson like role player who makes $10m+/yr. He'll be a Dudley, Frye, Nick Collison, Glen Davis, Darrell Arthur, Kelly Olynk type role player. Guys who are a dime a dozen in free agency. I honestly wouldn't pick Kaminsky until the 20's, because those are the teams that need guys like him. The Suns don't need any more role players, we need starters, stars!
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Re: Official Draft Thread: What should we do with the 13th and 43rd pick? 

Post#2347 » by StarMaker » Wed Jun 24, 2015 5:27 am

DRK wrote:
StarMaker wrote:
DRK wrote:Can someone outline for me the infatuation with Kaminsky? Not long ago he wasnt even projected as a NBA Prospect, then one season later suddenly he's Lottery Potential?

It's easy to dominate the college game when you are 7'2 with some skills, and playing against 6'8 guys most nights. Can he replicate that against NBA talent? He's skilled yes, but he's also 2-3 years older than most other big men prospects we are looking at - thats 2-3 years more time honing skills in the gym.

Kaminsky does not excite me at all, and I have alot of trouble seeing how his offensive game can translate to the pro's, where the defence is much tougher, physical, and smarter.

However, if we are looking at drafting a slower, worse defending and shooting Channing Frye at #13, by all means go ahead.


Don't underrate him.

Look at Draymond Green. He was also a graduate. He played against players who are 2-3 years younger than him, played against 6'8guys most nights as well when he was a senior. And then now he is DPOY runner-up this season and contributes a lot to winning NBA Final.

I don't think we can judge him like that because he is a graduate and he is old.


Draymond Green and Frank Kaminsky are completely different players. I dont think you could possibly find two more different basketball players in the world right now. (Okay that was an exaggeration)

Kaminsky's strengths are his offensive skill set and "size". Draymond's were his tenacious rebounding and passing ability. His passing ability was unique for a big man and both of his strengths coming out of college easily (and has proven to) translate to the pros.

Can Kaminsky's "versatile" scoring ability translate to the pros too? That's the million dollar question.


Regardless of difference between them, I don't think you were sure that Draymond Green has success in NBA when he entered the draft. That is because you too much focus on the age and the NCAA level.

I am pretty sure Kaminsky can translate his skills into the NBA. Because he has good personality, motivation, his own way how to deal with the hardship he would get at the next level. He has size as well. If he can play at 4, no one is taller than him except Porzingis.

I remember Steve Nash in 1996 draft. Many people like you said he wouldn't show his moves at the next level. He was a graduate and below-average athleticism. One thing he has is his outstanding skills like Kaminsky. Anywy, they were wrong. Nash eventually became a MVP in the league.

Why not Kaminsky? Kaminsky, of course, will become a good player in NBA
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Re: Official Draft Thread: What should we do with the 13th and 43rd pick? Stanley Johnson added..change vote if you w 

Post#2348 » by Qwigglez » Wed Jun 24, 2015 5:35 am

I think I'm off the Frank the Tank bandwagon. I thought he looked like a good prospect, but I'd rather go for a boom or bust player. Kaminsky is definitely a role player at best.
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Re: Official Draft Thread: What should we do with the 13th and 43rd pick? Stanley Johnson added..change vote if you w 

Post#2349 » by DRK » Wed Jun 24, 2015 5:44 am

JMac1 wrote:DRK and Sunsfan are the only people who compare Kaminsky to Frye. You can compare his height and 3pt shooting, but nothing else. But like i said.....it is a waste of time.

Then bringing up other players is just silly. You give me five players that were good n college and bust, I will give you 10 top ten picks that bust. It is a waste of time to use other players failures or successes.....it is irrelevant.


Hold up. Im comparing Kaminsky to College Frye, not 3-point-bomber Frye.

College Frye was a prospect picked due to his "offensive versatility" and "polished offensive game."

How did that turn out for him in the pros?
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Re: Official Draft Thread: What should we do with the 13th and 43rd pick? Stanley Johnson added..change vote if you w 

Post#2350 » by lilfishi22 » Wed Jun 24, 2015 5:53 am

I'm not a fan of making comparisons to previously drafted players. You could always find a successful player (Draymond) that can be used as a positive comparison and likewise you can always find average players (Frye) to use as a negative comparison.

We should be looking at the skill set, athleticism and physical attributes of Frank to decide whether he'll be a good player or not. I look at Frank and while I am impressed by his offensive versatility for a big man, I think he's a low ceiling guy but could become a decent but limited role player. That's why I'm not high on Frank at all.
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Re: Official Draft Thread: What should we do with the 13th and 43rd pick? Stanley Johnson added..change vote if you w 

Post#2351 » by SarcasticSun » Wed Jun 24, 2015 6:04 am

Portis, Booker, Lyles that's where I'm at right now and in that order too.
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Re: Official Draft Thread: What should we do with the 13th and 43rd pick? Stanley Johnson added..change vote if you w 

Post#2352 » by RaisingArizona » Wed Jun 24, 2015 6:09 am

My first choice, Booker, will probably be gone. Frank is my second choice. I see him as a Paul Gasol lite. He may never be an all star but he can contribute right away. We have so many projects already on this team ( Bullock, Goodwin, Warren, Bodgan). Do we really need another?
Edit: If WCS is there, I would be really tempted to take him. I think him and Len guarding the paint would do wonders for our interior defense and rebounding.
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Re: Official Draft Thread: What should we do with the 13th and 43rd pick? Stanley Johnson added..change vote if you w 

Post#2353 » by SunsFanSSOL » Wed Jun 24, 2015 6:16 am

ginobiliflops wrote:My first choice, Booker, will probably be gone. Frank is my second choice. I see him as a Paul Gasol lite. He may never be an all star but he can contribute right away. We have so many projects already on this team ( Bullock, Goodwin, Warren, Bodgan). Do we really need another?


Warren and Len are the only worthwhile prospects on this team and we have no star...so yes.
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Re: Official Draft Thread: What should we do with the 13th and 43rd pick? 

Post#2354 » by AtheJ415 » Wed Jun 24, 2015 6:20 am

JMac1 wrote:
AtheJ415 wrote:I don't like Kaminsky because I think he's delusional. He actually wrote he hates Anthony Davis because people think he's better than him. As if there isn't a person alive who doesn't KNOW Davis is better than him. There's a difference between confidence, irrational confidence, and straight up lunacy. I hope we get Turner or Portis for that and other reasons. But I do think Kaminsky is a good fit for our team.


Can you please give me that quote in its entire context. I like to do that before I pass judgement and call someone irrational and delusional. I am willing to bet, you are taking it out of context to stir up hatred for Kaminsky... :wink:


http://moosebball.blogspot.com/2014/04/what-it-was-like-elite-8.html


Quote: "I take it personally when people are touted as better than me. I hate Anthony Davis."

I'd prefer not draft a raging hater.
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Re: Official Draft Thread: What should we do with the 13th and 43rd pick? Stanley Johnson added..change vote if you w 

Post#2355 » by AtheJ415 » Wed Jun 24, 2015 6:22 am

If Tucker is traded for any pick I consider this draft a success.
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Re: Official Draft Thread: What should we do with the 13th and 43rd pick? Stanley Johnson added..change vote if you w 

Post#2356 » by SarcasticSun » Wed Jun 24, 2015 6:32 am

Kaminsky is going to be a bad rebounding and at best average defensive power foward. He relied on being bigger than everyone to get boards in college, won't hold up. Frankly, I'm sick of this type of player at pf on our team. Amare, Frye, Markieff...give me a guy who going to go 100% crashing all the boards, hustling on defense, all while spacing out the offense. Bobby. Portis.
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Re: Official Draft Thread: What should we do with the 13th and 43rd pick? Stanley Johnson added..change vote if you w 

Post#2357 » by DRK » Wed Jun 24, 2015 6:39 am

SarcasticSun wrote:Kaminsky is going to be a bad rebounding and at best average defensive power foward. He relied on being bigger than everyone to get boards in college, won't hold up. Frankly, I'm sick of this type of player at pf on our team. Amare, Frye, Markieff...give me a guy who going to go 100% crashing all the boards, hustling on defense, all while spacing out the offense.Montrezl Harrell


Fixed it for you!
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Re: Official Draft Thread: What should we do with the 13th and 43rd pick? Stanley Johnson added..change vote if you w 

Post#2358 » by SarcasticSun » Wed Jun 24, 2015 6:48 am

We could do worse. Also before someone chimes in that Portis isn't a good rebounde either, I think that unlike Kaminsky, Portis has the talent to be a much better rebounder than he was in college. I mean after all, drafting is pretty much selecting the player you think has the most correctable and minor weaknesses.
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Re: Official Draft Thread: What should we do with the 13th and 43rd pick? Stanley Johnson added..change vote if you w 

Post#2359 » by AtheJ415 » Wed Jun 24, 2015 7:16 am

I wouldn't worry about Kaminsky honestly. He's a good fit for our offensive system, but he doesn't fit a McDonough pick whatsoever. Since McDonough has been here, he took Len and Goodwin (2 very good athletes who were young with upside). Even Warren, while he's not considered a great athlete, has real upside and was thought to have that at draft day. I have yet to see somebody think Kaminsky is anything but a potentially great role player. We will draft someone with more upside imo. I'm thinking Turner or Portis.
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Re: Official Draft Thread: What should we do with the 13th and 43rd pick? Stanley Johnson added..change vote if you w 

Post#2360 » by AtheJ415 » Wed Jun 24, 2015 7:19 am

The more I think about a Porzingis Len front court, the more I think we should trade Bledsoe for 4. Use that cap space to sign a guard like Carroll or Green or even try for Butler.

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