2023-24 Season Discussion and Speculation 4 - A Rocky Start

[lilfishi22]

I don't see him getting anywhere near 25/year. I think his sweet spot is 15-18.

Other role guards in that range include Gary Trent Jr, Derrick White, Duncan Robinson, Norman Powell, Tim Hardaway Jr, D'Angelo Russell, Kevin Huerter, Caris LeVert, Luguentz Dort, Luke Kennard, Kentavious Caldwell-Pope, Max Strus.

Imo that's about right. He wouldn't be the best player in that group but also would hold his own against most of that list.

You could absolutely be right of course man! But don't you think it's maybe also possible that a lottery team with cap space or some other team could give him a similar offer to what Bruce Brown recieved? These teams are set to have significant cap space this summer:

Cap Space Teams – 7 Teams
San Antonio Spurs: $55.3 million.
Orlando Magic: $51.3 million.
Utah Jazz: $41.6 million.
Charlotte Hornets: $40.7 million.
Detroit Pistons: $38.7 million.
Philadelphia 76ers: $32.9 million.
Washington Wizards: $20.1 million.
Aug 15, 2023

Of these teams, how many do you think could use a top notch 3 pt shooting 2 guard with a versatile skillset? For my part, I'd think all of them honestly. And if you think that Grayson Allen is at all comparable or better (as a shooter) than Bruce Brown, then wouldn't you figure his market value (if he sustains his efficiency and production) would be equitable to Brown' deal?

Browns market value got a boost because the Nuggets won the chip and teams are stupid and love to chase “championship DNA”

I hope Grayson gets the same boost and then I couldn’t care less where he goes

100%

Nobody paying Brown that kind of money if he was playing for the Hornets. And I agree, if things work out the way we hope, it don't matter what happens to Grayson after.

[Book1Nation]

Agree. Would love to be a top 4 seed but what might be even more important than that is avoiding the Nuggets at all costs. They might be the only team we can't mess with because of Jokic and their overall size with Gordon and MPJ.

Sacramento, OKC, Clippers would all bring different challenges of their own but I think there's a path to winning with those teams.

Minnesota is completely fraudulent. Not buying them at all.

Teams that are consistent throughout the season I don’t see them as fraudulent. This T-Wolves team is twice better than the first place seed Jazz 2-3 seasons ago. Once they traded the youngsters and brought in vets like Gobert and Conley made them a serious contender. Now Anthony Edwards has matured and taken the next step along with Towns. This team is legit you gotta trust me man.

Wolves are legit but like pretty much every team, they have flaws.

I guess my point was I would much rather face Minnesota than Denver, OKC, the Clippers, Sacramento, even Dallas. They just don’t scare me at all. Maybe it’s because the Suns own them lately.

Phoenix is 11-2 vs Minnesota since the start of the 2019/20 season.

[WeekapaugGroove]

Wolves are a good team but the suns are a team that can really make Gobert uncomfortable.

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[lilfishi22]

Teams that are consistent throughout the season I don’t see them as fraudulent. This T-Wolves team is twice better than the first place seed Jazz 2-3 seasons ago. Once they traded the youngsters and brought in vets like Gobert and Conley made them a serious contender. Now Anthony Edwards has matured and taken the next step along with Towns. This team is legit you gotta trust me man.

Wolves are legit but like pretty much every team, they have flaws.

I guess my point was I would much rather face Minnesota than Denver, OKC, the Clippers, Sacramento, even Dallas. They just don’t scare me at all. Maybe it’s because the Suns own them lately.

Phoenix is 11-2 vs Minnesota since the start of the 2019/20 season.

Minny is certainly the least proven of that group you mentioned. I put the Kings in that same category too in terms of unproven-ness.

[Ghost of Kleine]

I don't see him getting anywhere near 25/year. I think his sweet spot is 15-18.

Other role guards in that range include Gary Trent Jr, Derrick White, Duncan Robinson, Norman Powell, Tim Hardaway Jr, D'Angelo Russell, Kevin Huerter, Caris LeVert, Luguentz Dort, Luke Kennard, Kentavious Caldwell-Pope, Max Strus.

Imo that's about right. He wouldn't be the best player in that group but also would hold his own against most of that list.

You could absolutely be right of course man! But don't you think it's maybe also possible that a lottery team with cap space or some other team could give him a similar offer to what Bruce Brown recieved? These teams are set to have significant cap space this summer:

Cap Space Teams – 7 Teams
San Antonio Spurs: $55.3 million.
Orlando Magic: $51.3 million.
Utah Jazz: $41.6 million.
Charlotte Hornets: $40.7 million.
Detroit Pistons: $38.7 million.
Philadelphia 76ers: $32.9 million.
Washington Wizards: $20.1 million.
Aug 15, 2023

Of these teams, how many do you think could use a top notch 3 pt shooting 2 guard with a versatile skillset? For my part, I'd think all of them honestly. And if you think that Grayson Allen is at all comparable or better (as a shooter) than Bruce Brown, then wouldn't you figure his market value (if he sustains his efficiency and production) would be equitable to Brown' deal?

Browns market value got a boost because the Nuggets won the chip and teams are stupid and love to chase “championship DNA”

I hope Grayson gets the same boost and then I couldn’t care less where he goes

That's a great and very astute point man! And I hope that outcome would yield the same results for us too. I definitely think that when teams look at Grayson's impact for our team (in his role) they'll view him as better statistically, BUT ALSO in the context of jow he was key to our evolution and overall impressive improvements. And as you've said, teams can be stupid and because of that along with those other factors mentioned, I believe he'll get a significant increase even to Brown's salary range from the belief that he could replicate that effect for another team trending upwards competitively.

But also for struggling teams desperate for veteran impact players that could be a key piece towards expediting their competitive trajectories with his play and intangibles. Teams like Detroit and San Antonio or possibly Orlando come to mind. And I have no doubts that the Jazz or the 76ers could covet him highly too with their lack of high level shooting at that position?

[Frank Lee]

Wolves are legit but like pretty much every team, they have flaws.

I guess my point was I would much rather face Minnesota than Denver, OKC, the Clippers, Sacramento, even Dallas. They just don’t scare me at all. Maybe it’s because the Suns own them lately.

Phoenix is 11-2 vs Minnesota since the start of the 2019/20 season.

Minny is certainly the least proven of that group you mentioned. I put the Kings in that same category too in terms of unproven-ness.

What has this team ‘proved’ ?
We went to the finals two years ago and have but one player From that squad… We made the playoffs last year, had four returning players, two which do not play and a new coaching staff to boot…

Hubris much? Playoffs are going to be brutal no matter what draw

[lilfishi22]

I guess my point was I would much rather face Minnesota than Denver, OKC, the Clippers, Sacramento, even Dallas. They just don’t scare me at all. Maybe it’s because the Suns own them lately.

Phoenix is 11-2 vs Minnesota since the start of the 2019/20 season.

Minny is certainly the least proven of that group you mentioned. I put the Kings in that same category too in terms of unproven-ness.

What has this team ‘proved’ ?
We went to the finals two years ago and have but one player From that squad… We made the playoffs last year, had four returning players, two which do not play and a new coaching staff to boot…

Hubris much? Playoffs are going to be brutal no matter what draw

This team has at least won a series in the last playoffs. The Kings and Wolves have 3 playoff series combined over the last 3 seasons and have won none. I'm not saying we're better or worse than them, I'm just saying out of that group Golanator mentioned, Minny, Sactown and OKC have the least amount of playoff experience.

Doesn't necessarily mean they are an easy match up just noting their lack of recent playoff experience/success.

[garrick]

You could absolutely be right of course man! But don't you think it's maybe also possible that a lottery team with cap space or some other team could give him a similar offer to what Bruce Brown recieved? These teams are set to have significant cap space this summer:

Cap Space Teams – 7 Teams
San Antonio Spurs: $55.3 million.
Orlando Magic: $51.3 million.
Utah Jazz: $41.6 million.
Charlotte Hornets: $40.7 million.
Detroit Pistons: $38.7 million.
Philadelphia 76ers: $32.9 million.
Washington Wizards: $20.1 million.
Aug 15, 2023

Of these teams, how many do you think could use a top notch 3 pt shooting 2 guard with a versatile skillset? For my part, I'd think all of them honestly. And if you think that Grayson Allen is at all comparable or better (as a shooter) than Bruce Brown, then wouldn't you figure his market value (if he sustains his efficiency and production) would be equitable to Brown' deal?

Browns market value got a boost because the Nuggets won the chip and teams are stupid and love to chase “championship DNA”

I hope Grayson gets the same boost and then I couldn’t care less where he goes

That's a great and very astute point man! And I hope that outcome would yield the same results for us too. I definitely think that when teams look at Grayson's impact for our team (in his role) they'll view him as better statistically, BUT ALSO in the context of jow he was key to our evolution and overall impressive improvements. And as you've said, teams can be stupid and because of that along with those other factors mentioned, I believe he'll get a significant increase even to Brown's salary range from the belief that he could replicate that effect for another team trending upwards competitively.

But also for struggling teams desperate for veteran impact players that could be a key piece towards expediting their competitive trajectories with his play and intangibles. Teams like Detroit and San Antonio or possibly Orlando come to mind. And I have no doubts that the Jazz or the 76ers could covet him highly too with their lack of high level shooting at that position?

Bruce Brown's contract actually isn't that bad because the 2nd year is a team option and they can cut him if he never lives up to his potential. Indiana had to spend some money anyway so it's like the same thing as Landale so it could essentially be a one year rental.

[Ghost of Kleine]

Browns market value got a boost because the Nuggets won the chip and teams are stupid and love to chase “championship DNA”

I hope Grayson gets the same boost and then I couldn’t care less where he goes

That's a great and very astute point man! And I hope that outcome would yield the same results for us too. I definitely think that when teams look at Grayson's impact for our team (in his role) they'll view him as better statistically, BUT ALSO in the context of jow he was key to our evolution and overall impressive improvements. And as you've said, teams can be stupid and because of that along with those other factors mentioned, I believe he'll get a significant increase even to Brown's salary range from the belief that he could replicate that effect for another team trending upwards competitively.

But also for struggling teams desperate for veteran impact players that could be a key piece towards expediting their competitive trajectories with his play and intangibles. Teams like Detroit and San Antonio or possibly Orlando come to mind. And I have no doubts that the Jazz or the 76ers could covet him highly too with their lack of high level shooting at that position?

Bruce Brown's contract actually isn't that bad because the 2nd year is a team option and they can cut him if he never lives up to his potential. Indiana had to spend some money anyway so it's like the same thing as Landale so it could essentially be a one year rental.

For sure you're right man! I'm just making the correlation for what I could see Allen pulling in free agency based upon his impressive play to date. And you're right that contextually that deal wasn't bad for the Pacers because they were in a position to pay with ample cap space. but for our current situation, Allen getting upwards of 20 million or more would be quite difficult on us financially. Our financial situation being at the opposite end of the financial spectrum to theirs.

[SunsRback4Good]

Suns should have kept Torrey Craig he can hit shots while playing defense. Now any chance we can bring him back for a third straight time?

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

I guess my point was I would much rather face Minnesota than Denver, OKC, the Clippers, Sacramento, even Dallas. They just don’t scare me at all. Maybe it’s because the Suns own them lately.

Phoenix is 11-2 vs Minnesota since the start of the 2019/20 season.

Minny is certainly the least proven of that group you mentioned. I put the Kings in that same category too in terms of unproven-ness.

What has this team ‘proved’ ?
We went to the finals two years ago and have but one player From that squad… We made the playoffs last year, had four returning players, two which do not play and a new coaching staff to boot…

Hubris much? Playoffs are going to be brutal no matter what draw

The two matchups that really scare me are the Thunder and Clippers. We might be able to exploit the Thunder's lack of size and experience, but we cannot stop Shai, we'll struggle to contain Joe and Wallace, and we'll get tired having to close out on all their shooters since we lack depth and young energy in our rotation. Lu Dort would beat up our scorers over the course of a series, Jalen Williams will make sure KD has to work on both ends.

Then, the Clippers just have so much firepower. We haven't had to face a healthy LAC squad in the playoffs. KD can only guard one of PG and Kawhi, whereas either can match up with KD defensively. Westbrook will punish our lack of guard depth. I just don't see how we can match up with them unless we add another quality wing. We'd need a big series from Beal to have even a shot at winning.

The good news is that every WC team will have to run through the same gauntlet. Everyone will get worn out - which, ultimately, will be really great for the Celtics, who, it seems, really have only the Knicks (of all teams!) to fear out east. They should be much fresher than whomever they meet in the Finals.

So I guess.... I really hope there's someone on the buyout market who can help us. You need depth to run through a gauntlet, and right now, the only guys I trust in a playoff series are our starters.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/274435/Suns-Interested-In-Miles-Bridges

TBH, I get it. We gotta win at all costs. I bet we're looking at KPJ as well.

[Book1Nation]

So I guess.... I really hope there's someone on the buyout market who can help us. You need depth to run through a gauntlet, and right now, the only guys I trust in a playoff series are our starters.

Buyout market, we also have Payne + Saric trade exceptions. Draft pick wise we have four 2nd round picks to trade plus the 3rd priority in any swaps in 2024/26/28/30 if that's worth anything.

[garrick]

Suns should have kept Torrey Craig he can hit shots while playing defense. Now any chance we can bring him back for a third straight time?

Sure I think we can offer like 3 second round picks and any one of Little, Watanabe, Metu or KBD for him.

[Calvin Klein]

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/274435/Suns-Interested-In-Miles-Bridges

TBH, I get it. We gotta win at all costs. I bet we're looking at KPJ as well.

[spanishninja]

Suns should have kept Torrey Craig he can hit shots while playing defense. Now any chance we can bring him back for a third straight time?

unfortunately Craig's shot was inconsistent in the playoffs. shot 1-7 from 3 for the whole series against Denver last year after being hot against the Clips. we would have used him more if he was shooting better.

[Stix]

We have no assets, best case scenario is Miles Bridges forces his way here and Charlotte bites on Little. Otherwise we are hitting up the buyout market, and cutting ties with some guys we promised a title run.

[Ghost of Kleine]

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/274435/Suns-Interested-In-Miles-Bridges

TBH, I get it. We gotta win at all costs. I bet we're looking at KPJ as well.

I can see it as that too! But also see there interest as a veiled salary dump/ salary reduction move toward reducing their cap hit this summer and the repeater tax penalty that'd result from Little's multiyear contract. It'd also serve the purpose towards somewhat absorbing Allen's imminent salary increase for us to be able to resign him more comfortably.

That's my belief in why they're mostly interested in Bridges knowing that he's only a rental whose salary will come off the books before the taxes are tallied and won't require any long term commitment by them.


They'll try to use their Michigan connection to get the inside track to signing him with his veto leverage ( if possible) and of course the sell being able to compete for a ring AND being able to not have to worry about defenses being able to key in on him, so he could really show out and escalate his value prior to free agency!

[WeekapaugGroove]

We have no assets, best case scenario is Miles Bridges forces his way here and Charlotte bites on Little. Otherwise we are hitting up the buyout market, and cutting ties with some guys we promised a title run.

There's not a player on this roster (other than Damien Lee) who hasn't had a chance to secure a rotation spot. I won't feel bad at all for whomever gets cut if they sign a buy out guy.

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[Bogyo]

We have no assets, best case scenario is Miles Bridges forces his way here and Charlotte bites on Little. Otherwise we are hitting up the buyout market, and cutting ties with some guys we promised a title run.

Unfortunate, but we counted on those guys to deliver a bit more than, say a 29% 3point field goal percentage... Two sides to that coin