Game 18: Phoenix Suns (8-9) @ Brooklyn Nets (4-13)

[NTB]

How can people still believe that Kieff is not dogging? It's so obivous to me.

[Paradise]

Wtf was that. I've seen better executions from wnba players.

It was actually a solid play drawn up. It was supposed to be a Teletovic hand off to Brandon Knight off the inbounds since Jack is an awful defender. Hollins then countered with Hollis-Jefferson who disrupted Teletovic from catching the ball and blew up the play.

You guys got a good coach. Definitely jealous.

Are you saying you don't like Hollins? How you liking yourself some RHJ?

Hollis-Jefferson has been terrific. He currently ranks #1 in Defensive Plus-Minus among SGs behind Jimmy Butler, 4th in Rebounding among SGs in the league and 24th overall in Steals ahead of Paul George and Khris Middleton.

In terms of Lionel Hollins? He has installed the Memphis "Grit n Grind" culture here now that the dark cloud known as Deron Williams is gone. We've managed to nearly beat Golden State and Cleveland but Hollins usually gets out-coached in late game situations. We've lost six games by five points or less. He's stubborn.

Suns fans have a good situation. It's early but once Chandler hits mid-season form and Booker becomes comfortable with the adjustment to the NBA. The Suns will solidify themselves in the West.

[Funky Tut]

I think once we are out of playoff contention we should just start giving tons of minutes to the young guys. No reason to give minutes to Keef/Tucker etc..

I want to see more of Booker, Len, Warren, and I want to see what Archie has...

[pidi]

I think once we are out of playoff contention we should just start giving tons of minutes to the young guys. No reason to give minutes to Keef/Tucker etc..

I want to see more of Booker, Len, Warren, and I want to see what Archie has...

that´s the problem... we are not out. and i can´t understand why jeff is letting booker in as the sixth man. that´s bs. he should roll with leuer/tele and goodwin. ne need to let booker and price on court at the same time. no need to throw kieff in in crunchtime, this freak costs us the game.

how stupid is jeff?? how stuoid is markieff. we had the same problem last year with the chemistry. watching kieff is looks like he wants to hold the chemistry and influence guy like archie.

get rid of this bitch, i´ve seen enough

[Slartibartfast]

That is what I am saying. The Nets are just not a good ball club right now. I can't tell if we are good or bad, at times, we play really good, other times we lose to bad teams and play horrible. What we lack is CONSISTENCY, which is typical of .500 teams.

We are average. The Nets also beat the Rockets, Pistons, Celtics and Hawks. How many of those teams do you think we are better than? Most everyone loses to some bad teams. Luckily we've beaten most of the bad teams (only lost to one non playoff team from last year).

Brooklyn and New Orleans were playoff teams last year who didn't really make many changes (Nets traded Plumlee for Hollis-Jefferson who is starting and playing well). They had bad starts for whatever reason. They may have been 8 seeds, but they both made it last year and we didn't and our major addition was out tonight. Markieff is just costing us BIG TIME. I'd really like to see how the team would do without him. I don't know if Hornacek has been told to play him or not. I wish I knew the answer to that question.

At this point though, if McD told him to make sure he gets plenty of minutes, even he should start to see that he obviously should not get many minutes.

Don't forget D-Will. The Nets let D-Will go and replaced their semi-proven bench role players (Anderson, Mirza, Plumlee) with 4 guys from 4 of the 5 worst teams in the league. Larkin's been playing well the last few weeks, but he's only a 18 games removed from consecutive seasons of awful play.

And y'all are definitely better on paper than the Pistons and better than the horror show Houston has been. If it wasn't for Markieff dogging it or Bledsoe and Knight lazily easing up on the gas pedal to play at the Nets pace, this would have been an easy win.

[Mulhollanddrive]

There are enough bad teams, that you should be able to make playoffs if you want.

16 out of 30, and with about 5-10 tanking it should be actually quite hard to finish in between so often.

[batsmasher]

How can people still believe that Kieff is not dogging? It's so obivous to me.

Well he must be really good at hiding it because he seems to be smiling every time I see him on the bench. And coach is still playing him so.

Honestly I hate how simplified this sort of **** is. Just because he doesn't play well in a game doesn't give any indication of where he's actually at mentally. Us fans have 0 time up close and personal with the team so I don't see how we can give any good insight at all into who's to blame and where the problems are. For all we know TJ could be dealing meth to the team.

Stupid crap like "It's all Horny's fault" or "Kieff isn't trying" is mindnumbingly oversimplifying it. Plus, Kieff's effort on D has been better than expected.

God, I don't even like Kieff and here I am having to stick up for him...

[PackSuns]

Just watched the game for a second time.

Len with a good showing.
Keef?
Booker needs to eat. Love his potential but not a great showing.
Does this team even like each other?
It seems like they are all fighting for touches. Too many chefs in the kitchen? Not much continuity. Poor spacing at times. Perimeter defense was suspect in the 4th. We need some addition by subtraction.

[bwgood77]

That is what I am saying. The Nets are just not a good ball club right now. I can't tell if we are good or bad, at times, we play really good, other times we lose to bad teams and play horrible. What we lack is CONSISTENCY, which is typical of .500 teams.

We are average. The Nets also beat the Rockets, Pistons, Celtics and Hawks. How many of those teams do you think we are better than? Most everyone loses to some bad teams. Luckily we've beaten most of the bad teams (only lost to one non playoff team from last year).

Brooklyn and New Orleans were playoff teams last year who didn't really make many changes (Nets traded Plumlee for Hollis-Jefferson who is starting and playing well). They had bad starts for whatever reason. They may have been 8 seeds, but they both made it last year and we didn't and our major addition was out tonight. Markieff is just costing us BIG TIME. I'd really like to see how the team would do without him. I don't know if Hornacek has been told to play him or not. I wish I knew the answer to that question.

At this point though, if McD told him to make sure he gets plenty of minutes, even he should start to see that he obviously should not get many minutes.

Don't forget D-Will. The Nets let D-Will go and replaced their semi-proven bench role players (Anderson, Mirza, Plumlee) with 4 guys from 4 of the 5 worst teams in the league. Larkin's been playing well the last few weeks, but he's only a 18 games removed from consecutive seasons of awful play.

And y'all are definitely better on paper than the Pistons and better than the horror show Houston has been. If it wasn't for Markieff dogging it or Bledsoe and Knight lazily easing up on the gas pedal to play at the Nets pace, this would have been an easy win.

Nets fans seem to think losing D Will is a good thing. Jack is playing well and Plumlee was exchanged for Hollis-Jefferson, playing well. But regardless of their bench players, their bench killed ours tonight for whatever reason which was the primary difference...they got hot or whatever. That is just always how Knight and Bledsoe play. Bledsoe gets sloppy and tired and Knight i up and down. Lopez had his way with young Len and we were missing Chandler. A game we definitely should have won but just about any road game is tough. Look at Cleveland. They are having a tough time with road games and needed a buzzer beater to beat this Nets team last week.

[bwgood77]

There are enough bad teams, that you should be able to make playoffs if you want.

16 out of 30, and with about 5-10 tanking it should be actually quite hard to finish in between so often.

Usually there are about 10 bad teams, and 20 fighting for 16 playoff spots. This year there are more like 4 bad teams and only two REALLY BAD teams, and then about 6 really good teams, and 20 in the middle all fighting. The Nets and Pelicans are really teams in the middle pack who had a bad start. They will finish toward the end of that pack, but they have played pretty well lately, almost beating Cleveland and GS, and winning their last 4 home games.

I thought this was one we'd take. I didn't expect the Toronto win on the road though. I don't really expect any other game, but we should hopefully at least be able to get one, especially if Kieff comes back. I thought we'd probably end up with two wins on the trip, and was hoping maybe we could get three, but thought it would be tough to go 500 on this trip.

[bwgood77]

Just watched the game for a second time.

Len with a good showing.
Keef?
Booker needs to eat. Love his potential but not a great showing.
Does this team even like each other?
It seems like they are all fighting for touches. Too many chefs in the kitchen? Not much continuity. Poor spacing at times. Perimeter defense was suspect in the 4th. We need some addition by subtraction.

Nice to see some actual real meaningful insight and opinions from someone unlike many who are regurgitating the same opinions repeatedly. I do think for the most part they like each other, but I do think at times Bledsoe just WANTS is. I often see Knight standing out wide open back at the 3 line and Bledsoe with tunnel vision barreling into the lane even with the paint as crowded as it can be.

There WAS some good ball movement at times, but then someone makes a dumb pass that gets turned over...they all look like interceptions...someone jumps into the air and grabs it...Kieff did this one time last time after good ball movement. But many of them make lazy passes at times. I thought Len looks good too.

I think they do like each other though.

[RunDogGun]

We need to sit Keef. 6 points and one rebound really sucks for any starting PF.

Price hasn't been the same since his concussion. He can't make a basket.

[bigfoot]

To me it is not just one bad game from Kief. It's been a recurring theme for the season. Here's some numbers

PER ... 58 out of 73 power forwards ... Tele 21 and Leuer 31
RPM ... 78 out of 92 power forwards ... Leuer 23 and Tele 24
FG% ... .389 ... 3rd worst on the team ... Weems and Jefferson are worse
3P% ... .286 ... worst on the team ... tied with Goodwin
FGA ... 13 ... third most attempts on team ... behind Bledsoe/Knight
ORTG ... 87 ... Tele is 30 points higher and Leuer is 20 points higher
DRTG ... 105 ... Leur is two points lower (better) and Tele 1 point higher (worse)
WS/48 ... -0.022 ... Tele .153 and Leuer is .128 both top five on the team

The numbers don't lie ... Kief is hurting this team and needs to go to the bench permanently. Almost all of his advanced stats are career lows with the exception of usage. He's taking more shots than ever before.

Screw his trade value ... his mind is not in the game.

[Sunsss]

We can't keep playing slow like other teams want to do. Other than a stretch in the 3rd quarter, this game was slow as ****.

[NTB]

How can people still believe that Kieff is not dogging? It's so obivous to me.

Well he must be really good at hiding it because he seems to be smiling every time I see him on the bench. And coach is still playing him so.

Honestly I hate how simplified this sort of **** is. Just because he doesn't play well in a game doesn't give any indication of where he's actually at mentally. Us fans have 0 time up close and personal with the team so I don't see how we can give any good insight at all into who's to blame and where the problems are. For all we know TJ could be dealing meth to the team.

Stupid crap like "It's all Horny's fault" or "Kieff isn't trying" is mindnumbingly oversimplifying it. Plus, Kieff's effort on D has been better than expected.

God, I don't even like Kieff and here I am having to stick up for him...

He is not hiding anything, you just don't want to see it in that way. He is shooting 3/11 every night and this is definitely not a shooting slump. He can't just throw the game in an obvious way because I think it is illegal or something like that. He's just making enough buckets to save his ass and then concentrates on harming the team.

[RunDogGun]

To me it is not just one bad game from Kief. It's been a recurring theme for the season. Here's some numbers

PER ... 58 out of 73 power forwards ... Tele 21 and Leuer 31
RPM ... 78 out of 92 power forwards ... Leuer 23 and Tele 24
FG% ... .389 ... 3rd worst on the team ... Weems and Jefferson are worse
3P% ... .286 ... worst on the team ... tied with Goodwin
FGA ... 13 ... third most attempts on team ... behind Bledsoe/Knight
ORTG ... 87 ... Tele is 30 points higher and Leuer is 20 points higher
DRTG ... 105 ... Leur is two points lower (better) and Tele 1 point higher (worse)
WS/48 ... -0.022 ... Tele .153 and Leuer is .128 both top five on the team

The numbers don't lie ... Kief is hurting this team and needs to go to the bench permanently. Almost all of his advanced stats are career lows with the exception of usage. He's taking more shots than ever before.

Screw his trade value ... his mind is not in the game.

Yep, we just need to sit him. If we have to come up with a strange ailment, then so be it. Start Tele, and bring Leuer in as first big off the bench. Tele is coming around on his shot and conditioning. Leuer always gives good effort. Are we 2-7 since Keiff came back? 3-0 when he sat?

[RaisingArizona]

Kieff has been horrendous this year. I've about seen enough. He looks nothing like he did last year.

[Jdiddy701]

I think if we have TJ Warren in crunch time, we'd be so much better.


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[bwgood77]

I think once we are out of playoff contention we should just start giving tons of minutes to the young guys. No reason to give minutes to Keef/Tucker etc..

I want to see more of Booker, Len, Warren, and I want to see what Archie has...

We won't be out of playoff contention for a very long time. There are a ton of teams hovering around the 6-10 spots. Plus it's so early, a lot of ball to still be played.

[bwgood77]

To me it is not just one bad game from Kief. It's been a recurring theme for the season. Here's some numbers

PER ... 58 out of 73 power forwards ... Tele 21 and Leuer 31
RPM ... 78 out of 92 power forwards ... Leuer 23 and Tele 24
FG% ... .389 ... 3rd worst on the team ... Weems and Jefferson are worse
3P% ... .286 ... worst on the team ... tied with Goodwin
FGA ... 13 ... third most attempts on team ... behind Bledsoe/Knight
ORTG ... 87 ... Tele is 30 points higher and Leuer is 20 points higher
DRTG ... 105 ... Leur is two points lower (better) and Tele 1 point higher (worse)
WS/48 ... -0.022 ... Tele .153 and Leuer is .128 both top five on the team

The numbers don't lie ... Kief is hurting this team and needs to go to the bench permanently. Almost all of his advanced stats are career lows with the exception of usage. He's taking more shots than ever before.

Screw his trade value ... his mind is not in the game.

Nice to see the numbers. Thanks for posting.