Game 30: Phoenix Suns (12-17) @ Utah Jazz (11-14)

[bwgood77]

They clearly decided that by making tens of millions of dollars to PLAY A GAME is too much to ask to actually play the game hard. Maybe that's not in the contract. Maybe the contract only says 'play basketball' and these guys have decided that means putting on the uniform and jacking up shots.

Maybe I'm overreacting.

Maybe a full healthy Suns team SHOULD have lost by double digits to a team that, without Rudy Gobert, is playing the worst defense in the league.

Maybe a fully healthy Suns team SHOULD have given up a 9-point lead in the final seven minutes to one of the worst offensive and defensive teams of the 2015-16 season.

Maybe a $70 million guard SHOULD fail to show up to the last couple games.

Maybe another $70 million guard SHOULD continue to take stupid 22-footers and make stupid turnovers in closing seconds.

Maybe the $52 million center SHOULD move around like he suddenly turned 52 years old.

Maybe the players SHOULD decide they don't care what play is called, that they will just barrel to the basket and see what happens.

Maybe the 19 year old SHOULD be the smartest basketball player on the floor.

Go ahead. Get your coach fired. I'm sure that HORNACEK is the real problem, and as soon as you get a new coach you'll play like the awesome playoff team you think you should be.

Good work, Suns. You made the nicest and smartest guy in the building the scapegoat by letting him coach out the last year of his contract while giving long term deals to unproven players.

I wish the best for you, Jeff Hornacek. May your future be as golden as some of the other good people who've left town in recent seasons.

http://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2015/12/21/10642464/final-score-phoenix-suns-utah-jazz-loss?utm_campaign=brightsideofthesun&utm_content=chorus&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter[/quote]

I feel kind of the same way, and I wonder if Hornacek would want to move out of Phx. I definitely think he would be scooped up immediately if he was though.

[AtheJ415]

Jeff Hornacek is not the problem with this team. It's the talent. Most people on this board don't realize that though.

Can you say this team has improved at all this season? Or do you think our team of mostly 19-26 year olds has capped out its talent?

[Qwigglez]

Spoiler:

I know it's bad form to post the full link but I'm okay making an exception in this case since not many people actually click-through. Dave King's recap of the game at Bright Side:

http://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2015/12/21/10642464/final-score-phoenix-suns-utah-jazz-loss?utm_campaign=brightsideofthesun&utm_content=chorus&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter

I'm not even going to recap this abomination of a game. The Phoenix Suns players should be ashamed of themselves.

If the Suns best players don't even bother to show up to play, why should I take the time to write a detailed, informative recap?

Sounds petty of me. That's like saying 'I'm taking my plastic truck and going home! humpf!'

And I agree.

But how is my childish reaction any different than the professional basketball players I just saw take the court against the Utah Jazz?

I'll tell you how. I'M NOT MAKING $14 MILLION TO WRITE THIS RECAP TO THE BEST OF MY ABILITY!

That's exactly how my mail-in of a recap is different than the Suns players' mail in of this game.

They clearly decided not to show up. They clearly decided they don't want to follow the rules, run the plays, stay in their own lanes and play hard-nosed basketball.

They clearly decided that by making tens of millions of dollars to PLAY A GAME is too much to ask to actually play the game hard. Maybe that's not in the contract. Maybe the contract only says 'play basketball' and these guys have decided that means putting on the uniform and jacking up shots.

Maybe I'm overreacting.

Maybe a full healthy Suns team SHOULD have lost by double digits to a team that, without Rudy Gobert, is playing the worst defense in the league.

Maybe a fully healthy Suns team SHOULD have given up a 9-point lead in the final seven minutes to one of the worst offensive and defensive teams of the 2015-16 season.

Maybe a $70 million guard SHOULD fail to show up to the last couple games.

Maybe another $70 million guard SHOULD continue to take stupid 22-footers and make stupid turnovers in closing seconds.

Maybe the $52 million center SHOULD move around like he suddenly turned 52 years old.

Maybe the players SHOULD decide they don't care what play is called, that they will just barrel to the basket and see what happens.

Maybe the 19 year old SHOULD be the smartest basketball player on the floor.

Go ahead. Get your coach fired. I'm sure that HORNACEK is the real problem, and as soon as you get a new coach you'll play like the awesome playoff team you think you should be.

Good work, Suns. You made the nicest and smartest guy in the building the scapegoat by letting him coach out the last year of his contract while giving long term deals to unproven players.

I wish the best for you, Jeff Hornacek. May your future be as golden as some of the other good people who've left town in recent seasons.

http://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2015/12/21/10642464/final-score-phoenix-suns-utah-jazz-loss?utm_campaign=brightsideofthesun&utm_content=chorus&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter

Wow. I agree with everything. That was exactly how I felt watching this game. I'm really tired of seeing our guys who get a ten-figure salary not show up to play a basketball game. We should slap them in the face by playing guys who are still on their rookie contract. It's embarrassing, especially when no one takes ownership of the teams problems. Oh, it's the coach, no wait, it's Kieff, or maybe it's Tucker and his bucket of chicken.
No one cared to show up and we allow a Jazz team to dominate us and I can't even name three of their starters off the top of my head.
Next game we should start Archie/Booker/Warren/Leuer/Len even if we get blown out by 20 within 5 minutes of the game starting. Have our vets earn their playing time back, I'm sure they are eager to prove their worth.

[Cutter]

Pop would coach this team to the WCF. Once Horny is gone all is good. /greenfont

[thamadkant]

The first 2-3 pages has plenty of pro-Hornacek posts.... the last several pages however lol.

Well it doesn't make sense. You start Warren and Booker and take them out when they make mistakes. Let them play through it. You can't play 12 players in the first half. Jeff just does dumb things like the players. Tucker/Price should not be getting more minutes then Booker/Warren.

If we lose the game oh well, I rather lose the game knowing our young players are in learning.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

I've said the same things since last season.

Others are now seeing it too.

Len and Goodwin were yanked so easily, same thing is happening to Warren and Booker... but Booker and Warren has actually seen plenty of minutes this season.

[RaisingArizona]

Sorry but Hornacek needs to go. If the guys don't listen or respect him then we need to get someone in there that they will listen to and respect.

[AtheJ415]

The first 2-3 pages has plenty of pro-Hornacek posts.... the last several pages however lol.

Well it doesn't make sense. You start Warren and Booker and take them out when they make mistakes. Let them play through it. You can't play 12 players in the first half. Jeff just does dumb things like the players. Tucker/Price should not be getting more minutes then Booker/Warren.

If we lose the game oh well, I rather lose the game knowing our young players are in learning.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

The other aspect of this is that it isn't an either/or scenario between Hornacek and the players. Both are to blame. We don't need to pretend it's one or the other. But I will say the coach's job is to get through to the players and put them in the best chance to succeed given each one's skillset. The players' jobs are to execute what the coach designs. Both have failed, but let's not pretend like Hornacek's rotations and scenario-specific subs and play calls have put us in a position to succeed this year. They haven't. At all. And let's not pretend like he's gotten through to our players regarding the importance of defense or taking care of the ball. As a team, they have failed, and that's with Hornacek playing a starting lineup that has Tyson Chandler, Eric Bledsoe, and PJ Tucker in it for most of the year. How are we bad at defense? The coach has to take the blame. He's no scapegoat here. He rightly deserves blame, even if it isn't entirely and solely his fault.

[Qwigglez]

Spoiler:

The first 2-3 pages has plenty of pro-Hornacek posts.... the last several pages however lol.

Well it doesn't make sense. You start Warren and Booker and take them out when they make mistakes. Let them play through it. You can't play 12 players in the first half. Jeff just does dumb things like the players. Tucker/Price should not be getting more minutes then Booker/Warren.

If we lose the game oh well, I rather lose the game knowing our young players are in learning.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

I've said the same things since last season.

Others are now seeing it too.

Len and Goodwin were yanked so easily, same thing is happening to Warren and Booker... but Booker and Warren has actually seen plenty of minutes this season.

To be fair, Booker was pulled because he made some bad rotations and made a terrible rookie-esque pass on a fastbreak.

[bwgood77]

Tucker: 0 points in 25 minutes

Warren: 9 points in 21 minutes.

Hit the road Jeff.

It might have had something to do with who had closer to an overall net value on the court, given that Hornacek was trying to keep his job. We have had some bad starts and bad lineups, but that starting lineup was abysmal. If you are really interested, check out the +/- #s

http://espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?gameId=400828304

AtheJ415 was right about changing the starting lineup suddenly if we want to win, although he did say it after we were down quick early. But nonetheless, he was right.

[AtheJ415]

Sorry but Hornacek needs to go. If the guys don't listen or respect him then we need to get someone in there that they will listen to and respect.

This. Even if it is the players' fault, you have to do something to fix it. You cannot just continue to use the coach the players, even if it was hypothetically wrongly, don't listen to or respect. You cannot turn over the entire roster in 1 move like you can fire a coach, and with the young talent on this roster, I'm not sure we would want to. Bledsoe, Knight, Booker, Warren, and Len imo are guys every team would be happy to have imo, despite the hate the first 2 seem to take on this board.

This team needs a wake up call, and often firing the coach serves as that.

[AtheJ415]

I'm still at a loss for how we're so bad defensively all year even when our starting lineup features Chandler, Bledsoe, and Tucker. Leuer and Knight aren't awful defenders either, even though they are far from elite. Those 3 guys have proven in the past to be elite caliber defenders. Why are we not a top defensive team with that unit? I expected us to at least be above average defensively overall (because even if our bench was awful defensively our starters would be really good) with Chandler on board, and assuming Tucker was still starting all year, and we're damn near the bottom of the league.

The Spurs are dominant defensively with 2 really elite defenders in Duncan and Leonard, a good defender in Danny Green, and then a bunch of guys who have nowhere near the physical defensive ability of some of our guys. Point being the Spurs have managed to get super old players to defend, and new additions to defend, quickly and at a high level. Why can't we when we are anchored by 3 elite defenders/3 guys who should be elite defenders.

[bwgood77]

Spoiler:

I know it's bad form to post the full link but I'm okay making an exception in this case since not many people actually click-through. Dave King's recap of the game at Bright Side:

http://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2015/12/21/10642464/final-score-phoenix-suns-utah-jazz-loss?utm_campaign=brightsideofthesun&utm_content=chorus&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter

I'm not even going to recap this abomination of a game. The Phoenix Suns players should be ashamed of themselves.

If the Suns best players don't even bother to show up to play, why should I take the time to write a detailed, informative recap?

Sounds petty of me. That's like saying 'I'm taking my plastic truck and going home! humpf!'

And I agree.

But how is my childish reaction any different than the professional basketball players I just saw take the court against the Utah Jazz?

I'll tell you how. I'M NOT MAKING $14 MILLION TO WRITE THIS RECAP TO THE BEST OF MY ABILITY!

That's exactly how my mail-in of a recap is different than the Suns players' mail in of this game.

They clearly decided not to show up. They clearly decided they don't want to follow the rules, run the plays, stay in their own lanes and play hard-nosed basketball.

They clearly decided that by making tens of millions of dollars to PLAY A GAME is too much to ask to actually play the game hard. Maybe that's not in the contract. Maybe the contract only says 'play basketball' and these guys have decided that means putting on the uniform and jacking up shots.

Maybe I'm overreacting.

Maybe a full healthy Suns team SHOULD have lost by double digits to a team that, without Rudy Gobert, is playing the worst defense in the league.

Maybe a fully healthy Suns team SHOULD have given up a 9-point lead in the final seven minutes to one of the worst offensive and defensive teams of the 2015-16 season.

Maybe a $70 million guard SHOULD fail to show up to the last couple games.

Maybe another $70 million guard SHOULD continue to take stupid 22-footers and make stupid turnovers in closing seconds.

Maybe the $52 million center SHOULD move around like he suddenly turned 52 years old.

Maybe the players SHOULD decide they don't care what play is called, that they will just barrel to the basket and see what happens.

Maybe the 19 year old SHOULD be the smartest basketball player on the floor.

Go ahead. Get your coach fired. I'm sure that HORNACEK is the real problem, and as soon as you get a new coach you'll play like the awesome playoff team you think you should be.

Good work, Suns. You made the nicest and smartest guy in the building the scapegoat by letting him coach out the last year of his contract while giving long term deals to unproven players.

I wish the best for you, Jeff Hornacek. May your future be as golden as some of the other good people who've left town in recent seasons.

http://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2015/12/21/10642464/final-score-phoenix-suns-utah-jazz-loss?utm_campaign=brightsideofthesun&utm_content=chorus&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter

Wow. I agree with everything. That was exactly how I felt watching this game. I'm really tired of seeing our guys who get a ten-figure salary not show up to play a basketball game. We should slap them in the face by playing guys who are still on their rookie contract. It's embarrassing, especially when no one takes ownership of the teams problems. Oh, it's the coach, no wait, it's Kieff, or maybe it's Tucker and his bucket of chicken.
No one cared to show up and we allow a Jazz team to dominate us and I can't even name three of their starters off the top of my head.
Next game we should start Archie/Booker/Warren/Leuer/Len even if we get blown out by 20 within 5 minutes of the game starting. Have our vets earn their playing time back, I'm sure they are eager to prove their worth.

Yes, I posted this earlier about Markieff, but all of our regular starters might need it (20 second mark). I can understand Warren and Booker being overwhelmed against a starting unit, but damn..

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNkpIDBtC2c[/youtube]

[Barkley_34]

Sorry but Hornacek needs to go. If the guys don't listen or respect him then we need to get someone in there that they will listen to and respect.

This. Even if it is the players' fault, you have to do something to fix it. You cannot just continue to use the coach the players, even if it was hypothetically wrongly, don't listen to or respect. You cannot turn over the entire roster in 1 move like you can fire a coach, and with the young talent on this roster, I'm not sure we would want to. Bledsoe, Knight, Booker, Warren, and Len imo are guys every team would be happy to have imo, despite the hate the first 2 seem to take on this board.

This team needs a wake up call, and often firing the coach serves as that.

Nice one. I like horny, but he needs to go now.

[bwgood77]

Sorry but Hornacek needs to go. If the guys don't listen or respect him then we need to get someone in there that they will listen to and respect.

This. Even if it is the players' fault, you have to do something to fix it. You cannot just continue to use the coach the players, even if it was hypothetically wrongly, don't listen to or respect. You cannot turn over the entire roster in 1 move like you can fire a coach, and with the young talent on this roster, I'm not sure we would want to. Bledsoe, Knight, Booker, Warren, and Len imo are guys every team would be happy to have imo, despite the hate the first 2 seem to take on this board.

This team needs a wake up call, and often firing the coach serves as that.

I agree. Even though I'm guessing McHale is a better coach than whoever replaced them, his firing gave them a wake up call, and they have been playing better since.

[saintEscaton]

Whoa haven't posted in here for a while. Gotta carry the mantle for Frank Lee and JTrain in their absence. WTF is this team even doing? I'm not even surprised that we aren't even midway through the season and we are already witnessing a collapse. We've been steadily regressing and I don't see how we turn the tide anytime soon. We need an overhaul from the top to bottom. I'll give the brass another year at damage control but if they can't save face its time to call for their heads

[bwgood77]

Whoa haven't posted in here for a while. Gotta carry the mantle for Frank Lee and JTrain in their absence. WTF is this team even doing? I'm not even surprised that we aren't even midway through the season and we are already witnessing a collapse. We've been steadily regressing and I don't see how we turn the tide anytime soon. We need an overhaul from the top to bottom. I'll give the brass another year at damage control but if they can't save face its time to call for their heads

Wow, if you'll give the brass another year, you are far more generous than most.

[saintEscaton]

Spoiler:

I know it's bad form to post the full link but I'm okay making an exception in this case since not many people actually click-through. Dave King's recap of the game at Bright Side:

http://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2015/12/21/10642464/final-score-phoenix-suns-utah-jazz-loss?utm_campaign=brightsideofthesun&utm_content=chorus&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter



http://www.brightsideofthesun.com/2015/12/21/10642464/final-score-phoenix-suns-utah-jazz-loss?utm_campaign=brightsideofthesun&utm_content=chorus&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter

Wow. I agree with everything. That was exactly how I felt watching this game. I'm really tired of seeing our guys who get a ten-figure salary not show up to play a basketball game. We should slap them in the face by playing guys who are still on their rookie contract. It's embarrassing, especially when no one takes ownership of the teams problems. Oh, it's the coach, no wait, it's Kieff, or maybe it's Tucker and his bucket of chicken.
No one cared to show up and we allow a Jazz team to dominate us and I can't even name three of their starters off the top of my head.
Next game we should start Archie/Booker/Warren/Leuer/Len even if we get blown out by 20 within 5 minutes of the game starting. Have our vets earn their playing time back, I'm sure they are eager to prove their worth.

Yes, I posted this earlier about Markieff, but all of our regular starters might need it (20 second mark). I can understand Warren and Booker being overwhelmed against a starting unit, but damn..

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNkpIDBtC2c[/youtube]

My favorite part of that movie is when the lady in the airplane acts like she is morally offended when offered whiskey and proceeds to do a line of coke

[letsgosuns]

There are only five teams in the entire NBA that have more losses than the Suns. 30 games into the season and they are in the conversation for winning the draft lottery. I thought they would be bad but nowhere near this bad.

[blacksun]

Jeff Hornacek is not the problem with this team. It's the talent. Most people on this board don't realize that though.

I disagree. For example, this is a Utah Jazz team without Rudy Gobert and Dante Exum, two top four players in their roster missing. This Utah team that we faced isnt more talented than us. Yet they drubbed us.

[AtheJ415]

Jeff Hornacek is not the problem with this team. It's the talent. Most people on this board don't realize that though.

I disagree. For example, this is a Utah Jazz team without Rudy Gobert and Dante Exum, two top four players in their roster missing. This Utah team that we faced isnt more talented than us. Yet they drubbed us.

To add to this, on the year we have one of the top backcourts in basketball, and a plethora of guys lighting it up from 3. We have a top offense. We have rebounded well (although I haven't looked at those numbers lately). Great 3 point shooting combined with rebounding should offset even high turnovers. That should win more games. We suck because our players aren't buying in on defense and also because of the turnovers. How are we bad at defense? Look at the defensive talent we have? We have 2 centers who can protect the rim, including a recent DPOY, we have PJ Tucker who sees inexplicably huge minutes and is an elite defender, we have another elite defender in Bledsoe. Even Markieff grades out as a better defender than credited for here. Why are we so bad on that end?

Some could blame the youngsters, but Booker and Warren weren't starting until tonight, and Utah isa great defensive team despite being so young, while the Spurs are monsters defensively led by 40 year olds. Just with our base personnel, we should be way better defensively.