The Draft Thread: Ayton Vs Doncic 1

[MrMiyagi]

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Wasn't Simmons in love with Mario Hezonja for similar reasons?

[bwgood77]

That's my boy.

YES. THE CHOSEN ONE.

I know **** about their rules, whether they play halves or quarters etc.. but 16pts doesn't scream incredible.

That's his average. It's good for 4th highest avg PPG in euroleague this season. 1st is a little over 21, 2nd a little over 17, and third is 16.83.

In NBA, 4th highest is 27, so it might be like the youngest rookie scoring 27 in the conference finals.

Overall their games are not as high scoring. Their games are 20% shorter in time. He also had 6 boards which would be good for 4th. No one averaged over 7 boards a game this year. 1st was 6.69. 3rd was 6.06.

[bwgood77]

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Wasn't Simmons in love with Mario Hezonja for similar reasons?

Not that I remember but I know he liked Derrick Williams over Kyrie.

[Don7]

Intensity and gameplaning in today´s game is far bigger than Doncic will face in any regular season game next season.

Good game , in sunday against defending champions Fener to win only thing left in europe.

[sunskerr]

I think I'm back aboard the Doncic train, after being on the Ayton train for 2 days. Of course this will continue to go back and forth from now until draft day.

But if we draft Doncic I think we go after a guy who can defend at the point guard spot, with the intention of Doncic, Booker and Jackson being more interchangeable on defense - although Doncic would probably be guarding the slower forward (the power forward?). So, for example, Doncic guards PJ Tucker or Trevor Ariza whilst Booker and Jackson would be on Harden and the remaining forward, and the the guy we signed to defend point guards would, of course, be on Chris Paul.

I think this is one of the less-talked about solutions to drafting Doncic and having defensive issues. If we sign another guy who can guard point guards and a good defensive center (Capela, or we settle for someone like Len, or pray for the development of Chriss/Bender), then that's automatically three very strong defenders to back up Booker and Doncic. It also fits the "positionless basketball" team mould, because the traditional 2,3 and 4 spots would be manned by all wing players, and two of those guys (Doncic, Jackson) would have the size and quickness to guard most of the guys who now play at those modern 3 and 4 spots.

In short,

Guy who defends point guards
Booker
Jackson
Doncic
Defensive center

With Booker, Jackson and Doncic (mostly Jackson and Doncic) defending based on who better matches up.

Edit: I just realized this is incredibly similar to what Boston does already, and they were also going to be even playing Hayward with Brown/Tatum and Horford as a defensive center before his injury.

[bwgood77]

I think I'm back aboard the Doncic train, after being on the Ayton train for 2 days. Of course this will continue to go back and forth from now until draft day.

But if we draft Doncic I think we go after a guy who can defend at the point guard spot, with the intention of Doncic, Booker and Jackson being more interchangeable on defense - although Doncic would probably be guarding the slower forward (the power forward?). So, for example, Doncic guards PJ Tucker or Trevor Ariza whilst Booker and Jackson would be on Harden and the remaining forward, and the the guy we signed to defend point guards would, of course, be on Chris Paul.

I think this is one of the less-talked about solutions to drafting Doncic and having defensive issues. If we sign another guy who can guard point guards and a good defensive center (Capela, or we settle for someone like Len, or pray for the development of Chriss/Bender), then that's automatically three very strong defenders to back up Booker and Doncic. It also fits the "positionless basketball" team mould, because the traditional 2,3 and 4 spots would be manned by all wing players, and two of those guys (Doncic, Jackson) would have the size and quickness to guard most of the guys who now play at those modern 3 and 4 spots.

In short,

Guy who defends point guards
Booker
Jackson
Doncic
Defensive center

With Booker, Jackson and Doncic (mostly Jackson and Doncic) defending based on who better matches up.

Edit: I just realized this is incredibly similar to what Boston does already, and they were also going to be even playing Hayward with Brown/Tatum and Horford as a defensive center before his injury.

Yeah, I figure Sacramento would play him a lot at PF and it's been talked about that in the NBA, he could be devastating as one....he's basically got the same size as Draymond Green....maybe a little shorter wingspan.

Earlier written by Ben Rubin ..

he could be the most valuable off-ball offensive player we’ve seen in the last twenty years. Anything Draymond Green or Kevin Love can do on offense, Doncic can do better and with more ease. In that case, imagine Doncic a lot like Lonzo Ball (who I’d argue has been a top 20-25 NBA player in the last 15 games he’s played) except bigger with a better handle, better shake, more ability to punish switches inside (if small) and on the outside (if big), but with slightly less preternatural ball movement, less pure vertical and less speed. I find it also very likely that he’ll bring some defensive value.

Doncic’s passing ability, strength potential and competitiveness are three factors that should not be overlooked.

https://www.thestepien.com/2018/03/08/pre-tourney-notes/

I think there is a good chance you could play him 1-4, but I basically just figure you could run several playmakers out there as long as you have a few shooters and a few defenders. Basically how Boston does it. Philly kind of does it the same way...they are just mostly bigger at the guard spots unless McConnell is playing.

[Bob8]

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Wasn't Simmons in love with Mario Hezonja for similar reasons?

Hezonja Mario was 7.7/2/1 guy when he left Euroleague, being 1 year older than Doncic. In playoffs he avg. 3/1.7/0.7. Bench player. Hezonja attempted 24 Fts, Doncic 186.

http://www.euroleague.net/competition/players/showplayer?pcode=003108&seasoncode=E2014#!E2014_PO

[kennydorglas]

I think I'm back aboard the Doncic train, after being on the Ayton train for 2 days. Of course this will continue to go back and forth from now until draft day.

But if we draft Doncic I think we go after a guy who can defend at the point guard spot, with the intention of Doncic, Booker and Jackson being more interchangeable on defense - although Doncic would probably be guarding the slower forward (the power forward?). So, for example, Doncic guards PJ Tucker or Trevor Ariza whilst Booker and Jackson would be on Harden and the remaining forward, and the the guy we signed to defend point guards would, of course, be on Chris Paul.

I think this is one of the less-talked about solutions to drafting Doncic and having defensive issues. If we sign another guy who can guard point guards and a good defensive center (Capela, or we settle for someone like Len, or pray for the development of Chriss/Bender), then that's automatically three very strong defenders to back up Booker and Doncic. It also fits the "positionless basketball" team mould, because the traditional 2,3 and 4 spots would be manned by all wing players, and two of those guys (Doncic, Jackson) would have the size and quickness to guard most of the guys who now play at those modern 3 and 4 spots.

In short,

Guy who defends point guards
Booker
Jackson
Doncic
Defensive center

With Booker, Jackson and Doncic (mostly Jackson and Doncic) defending based on who better matches up.

Edit: I just realized this is incredibly similar to what Boston does already, and they were also going to be even playing Hayward with Brown/Tatum and Horford as a defensive center before his injury.

Welcome aboard.
That's what I'm saying all year long.

4 shooters/versatile players
1 defensive center

[Villalobos]

Hezonja Mario was 7.7/2/1 guy when he left Euroleague, being 1 year older than Doncic. In playoffs he avg. 3/1.7/0.7. Bench player. Hezonja attempted 24 Fts, Doncic 186.

http://www.euroleague.net/competition/players/showplayer?pcode=003108&seasoncode=E2014#!E2014_PO

that goodbye thing didn't last long, huh

[Bob8]

Hezonja Mario was 7.7/2/1 guy when he left Euroleague, being 1 year older than Doncic. In playoffs he avg. 3/1.7/0.7. Bench player. Hezonja attempted 24 Fts, Doncic 186.

http://www.euroleague.net/competition/players/showplayer?pcode=003108&seasoncode=E2014#!E2014_PO

that goodbye thing didn't last long, huh

It’s a new day in Europe and some of you here are so clueless, that you for sure need some help. Btw. you have ignore button somewhere.

[kennydorglas]

Luka had at least two plays tonight that were very LeBron-like... when he just picked up his dribble with no reason.
"WHY"
... no look pass to his teammate on the move...
OHHHHHHHHHHH

It seems like he has a plan for everything.
Also loved that his defenders bite on his stepback all game long but he never took the easy mid range shot.
Kept his dribble until the 3pt line and launched.

He's a very special player. Hopefully Sarver saw that too (who am I kidding?)

[Don7]

Watch on YouTube

[bwgood77]

Hezonja Mario was 7.7/2/1 guy when he left Euroleague, being 1 year older than Doncic. In playoffs he avg. 3/1.7/0.7. Bench player. Hezonja attempted 24 Fts, Doncic 186.

http://www.euroleague.net/competition/players/showplayer?pcode=003108&seasoncode=E2014#!E2014_PO

that goodbye thing didn't last long, huh

It’s a new day in Europe and some of you here are so clueless, that you for sure need some help. Btw. you have ignore button somewhere.

OK everyone, no need to harrass Bob, and no need Bob for you to call people clueless. This isn't only directed at you Villalobos..I almost said it earlier when TheLogician and him were going about who might be a half inch taller for like 10 posts.

[Bob8]

that goodbye thing didn't last long, huh

It’s a new day in Europe and some of you here are so clueless, that you for sure need some help. Btw. you have ignore button somewhere.

OK everyone, no need to harrass Bob, and no need Bob for you to call people clueless. This isn't only directed at you Villalobos..I almost said it earlier when TheLogician and him were going about who might be a half inch taller for like 10 posts.

I apologize.

[thamadkant]

I agree his D needs work it didnt help Arizona played him out of position in college but if you are worried about Ayton's D you should be down right terrified of Doncic's D.

I agree with Ayton being "work in progress" defensively overall.

But I'm confident he will improve there, basically by simply getting more experience and accessing coaching staff that specializes on those things and of course player development.

In the end, the ENTIRE Suns team need better defensive effort and IQ.... Josh Jackson was only "Pass" last season. Even Chandler stopped trying.

That is funny it's a work in progress but that's ok because our whole team D's a work in progress defensively so it's fine. Odd reasoning.

I do think/hope he will improve on that end too being how important it is to have a defensive anchor down low.

Trade up. For JJJ

[Villalobos]

I'm dumb so maybe I don't get it, but I don't see how sticking Doncic at PF is anything more than a better passing but worse scoring/shooting and much worse rebounding Kevin Love who I doubt defends PFs any better and perhaps worse. He brings up Draymond, but the beauty of Draymond is the insane defense mixed with some guard skills. Diddo for Durant in their small ball, who is tall and long as hell and a great defender. It's not the same, but this reminds me a bit of the advanced stats dorks (it was the Dunc'd On guys iirc) before the draft saying Jayson Tatum would only have any value in the NBA as a PF. Nope, turns out he plays primarily SF and is awesome. It's like they think sticking anyone at a higher position automatically and massively makes them better because it works insanely well on the Warriors, who are a historically unique team.

Earlier written by Ben Rubin ..

Lonzo Ball (who I’d argue has been a top 20-25 NBA player in the last 15 games he’s played)

lmao

Ball's last 15 games:

FG: 35%, FT: 31%, 3pt%: 27, TS: 43%, +/- negative 1.5

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/balllo01/splits/2018

what in the world is that guy smoking?

[thamadkant]

Positionless basketball


Only works

If you have players that are versatile, great shooters, slashers..... And great defenders.


Having 5 good scorers who need the ball against a team of 5 good scorers who can play defense and have all time great shooting is still going to lose

[jredsaz]

John Wall for 1??

[jcsunsfan]

This was posted on another site.

1. Which will bother you more. Picking Ayton and having Doncic turn out better, or picking Doncic and having Ayton turn out better?
2. Who has the higher floor? Who has the higher ceiling?

Fanboys who create their own websites like the Ringer but have never played the game love Doncic. People who have played the game want Ayton. Even the Nate Oats, the coach of Buffalo that beat Ayton in the tourney said that Ayton is future NBA superstar.

James Jones is on record as saying that the UofA offense was "archaic."

[bwgood77]

I'm dumb so maybe I don't get it, but I don't see how sticking Doncic at PF is anything more than a better passing but worse scoring/shooting and much worse rebounding Kevin Love who I doubt defends PFs any better and perhaps worse. He brings up Draymond, but the beauty of Draymond is the insane defense mixed with some guard skills. Diddo for Durant in their small ball, who is tall and long as hell and a great defender. It's not the same, but this reminds me a bit of the advanced stats dorks (it was the Dunc'd On guys iirc) before the draft saying Jayson Tatum would only have any value in the NBA as a PF. Nope, turns out he plays primarily SF and is awesome. It's like they think sticking anyone at a higher position automatically and massively makes them better because it works insanely well on the Warriors, who are a historically unique team.

Earlier written by Ben Rubin

Lonzo Ball (who I’d argue has been a top 20-25 NBA player in the last 15 games he’s played)

lmao

Ball's last 15 games:

FG: 35%, FT: 31%, 3pt%: 27, TS: 43%, +/- negative 1.5

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/balllo01/splits/2018

what in the world is that guy smoking?

He wrote that before the NCAA tourney, sometimes in early March, so I think it was after he had shot well for awhile, but Ball's shooting wasn't what was good about him this year anyway.

But anyway, about the PF thing, yeah, I wouldn't play him at PF, except maybe on occasion if you went super small though I go back to positionless and interchangeable lineups with versatility. I think he could guard 1-4s and play in numerous different types of lineups.