2020 Season/Offseason (FA/Trade) Speculation - the Season Resumes

[WeekapaugGroove]

I think they do both. Murray, White, Poeltl, Lonnie Walker, Luka Samanic, Keldon Johnson...add a lotto pick, keep a few vets around like Bellinelli, Aldridge, DeRozan, Gay, Mills....a lot of those vets have one year left..I could see them moving on from some of them if those younger guys are ready.

Yeah, the Spurs have low key added some really interesting you pieces. I loved Murray at #14 for us in the 2016 draft and for the life of me couldn't understand how he fell so far.

Disagree with you re Oubre, though. Pop is able to get the most out of players, and when you consider that Oubre's biggest problems - underwhelming team defense and decisionmaking on offense - are things that can be coached, I wouldn't be at all surprised if the Spurs were interested.... However. I do think the Spurs would hesitate to trade for a player who is about to command a big pay day. They've been able to get sweetheart deals with their players for years, and KO just isn't that type of guy at this point in his career. So for that reason more than the reasons you mention, I view the Spurs as unlikely landing spot.

I think he really wants players to play the right way, likes high iq, move the ball, team players, disciplined on defense, etc. Oubre doesn't seem like a Pop type player at all. I could see him wanting Bridges, or even Cam, though. Possibly even Saric.

Counterpoint.. Rudy Gay

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[ImNotMcDiSwear]

I think they do both. Murray, White, Poeltl, Lonnie Walker, Luka Samanic, Keldon Johnson...add a lotto pick, keep a few vets around like Bellinelli, Aldridge, DeRozan, Gay, Mills....a lot of those vets have one year left..I could see them moving on from some of them if those younger guys are ready.

Yeah, the Spurs have low key added some really interesting you pieces. I loved Murray at #14 for us in the 2016 draft and for the life of me couldn't understand how he fell so far.

Disagree with you re Oubre, though. Pop is able to get the most out of players, and when you consider that Oubre's biggest problems - underwhelming team defense and decisionmaking on offense - are things that can be coached, I wouldn't be at all surprised if the Spurs were interested.... However. I do think the Spurs would hesitate to trade for a player who is about to command a big pay day. They've been able to get sweetheart deals with their players for years, and KO just isn't that type of guy at this point in his career. So for that reason more than the reasons you mention, I view the Spurs as unlikely landing spot.

I think he really wants players to play the right way, likes high iq, move the ball, team players, disciplined on defense, etc. Oubre doesn't seem like a Pop type player at all. I could see him wanting Bridges, or even Cam, though. Possibly even Saric.

I don't think so. I've heard time and again how Pop prioritizes character most of all. I believe he feels like he can get players to play the right way so long as they buy in. I don't think that would be an issue with Kelly at all - if they could meet his salary demands. A lot of the guys they've drafted in recent years have come in with a low IQ reputation (e.g. Murray and Walker), and during the 2000s, they had success bringing guys into that program who were not necessarily the highest-IQ players (I'm thinking of Stephen Jackson in particular).

It's actually kind of hard to tell whether they prefer high-IQ vets, since they do so much internal development.

[Ghost of Kleine]

As a Magic fan I also think our Front Office will pay big money to pursue Oubre. They are still in the process of molding that team in their own vision. Fournier, Gordon and Vucevic are guys from the previous regime. They are gonna be moved.

My guess is a Gordon/Oubre based swap this off-season.

Earlier in the season I would have definitely considered that. But seeing Cam Johnson is really slotting into that starting PF slot, and Saric is playing the best ball of his PHX tenure in his role as backup PF, I question now if PF is actually a need for us. Based on the (admittedly very small) sample size so far, I think if Oubre does go, it'll be for a SG-SF defender/shooter/creator. Like a LeVert/ Joe Harris type.

Will be interesting to see how this lineup (with Cam at the PF spot continues to play!

It will be interesting to see what they do. Gordon would give us better defense than Saric, Oubre or Johnson at the 4 and is also an elite finisher over 70%...and a better passer, and better rebounder...Saric averages slightly more but he plays some C and played without Ayton and Baynes a bit and Gordon played mostly with Vucevic and Isaac. Gordon used to be a monster rebounder.

Now, the one problem with Gordon is his drop in 3 pt shooting, but that can probably be fixed.

I think Cam would be good off the bench at 3/4 and Saric potentially as a backup 4/5...but Saric depends on money...if we did get Gordon I'd probably hope to keep Baynes and move on from Saric unless he was dirt cheap like some expect.

We possibly draft a PF too....especially if we jump, and Gordon only has 2 years left on a declining contract...fits the timeline at 24 so younger than Saric...still a lot of upside and we could use that athleticism.

I think contractually, That Gordon's declining contract would be very tempting to Sarver with interest in cap reduction cost as well as the complimentary implications towards Ayton and Bridges extensions. I'm curious though, Do you ( Bwgood) think Gordon has solid potential as a 4/5 option situationally for us ( some instances of uptempo small ball lineups) given his elite athleticism?

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

Earlier in the season I would have definitely considered that. But seeing Cam Johnson is really slotting into that starting PF slot, and Saric is playing the best ball of his PHX tenure in his role as backup PF, I question now if PF is actually a need for us. Based on the (admittedly very small) sample size so far, I think if Oubre does go, it'll be for a SG-SF defender/shooter/creator. Like a LeVert/ Joe Harris type.

Will be interesting to see how this lineup (with Cam at the PF spot continues to play!

It will be interesting to see what they do. Gordon would give us better defense than Saric, Oubre or Johnson at the 4 and is also an elite finisher over 70%...and a better passer, and better rebounder...Saric averages slightly more but he plays some C and played without Ayton and Baynes a bit and Gordon played mostly with Vucevic and Isaac. Gordon used to be a monster rebounder.

Now, the one problem with Gordon is his drop in 3 pt shooting, but that can probably be fixed.

I think Cam would be good off the bench at 3/4 and Saric potentially as a backup 4/5...but Saric depends on money...if we did get Gordon I'd probably hope to keep Baynes and move on from Saric unless he was dirt cheap like some expect.

We possibly draft a PF too....especially if we jump, and Gordon only has 2 years left on a declining contract...fits the timeline at 24 so younger than Saric...still a lot of upside and we could use that athleticism.

I think contractually, That Gordon's declining contract would be very tempting to Sarver with interest in cap reduction cost as well as the complimentary implications towards Ayton and Bridges extensions. I'm curious though, Do you ( Bwgood) think Gordon has solid potential as a 4/5 option situationally for us ( some instances of uptempo small ball lineups) given his elite athleticism?

I really don't think we should be looking at Gordon at all. Dude's the second-best player on his team currently, but I can't imagine we would start him, given the extraordinary value Cam Johnson gives our starting lineup by opening up the floor. I think Cam's already more valuable than Gordon due to his gravity. Not to mention the pretty impressive job he did guarding Kawhi last night... pretty incredible, actually, since no one predicted he would be a decent defender coming out of college.

[Skin]

Earlier in the season I would have definitely considered that. But seeing Cam Johnson is really slotting into that starting PF slot, and Saric is playing the best ball of his PHX tenure in his role as backup PF, I question now if PF is actually a need for us. Based on the (admittedly very small) sample size so far, I think if Oubre does go, it'll be for a SG-SF defender/shooter/creator. Like a LeVert/ Joe Harris type.

Will be interesting to see how this lineup (with Cam at the PF spot continues to play!

It will be interesting to see what they do. Gordon would give us better defense than Saric, Oubre or Johnson at the 4 and is also an elite finisher over 70%...and a better passer, and better rebounder...Saric averages slightly more but he plays some C and played without Ayton and Baynes a bit and Gordon played mostly with Vucevic and Isaac. Gordon used to be a monster rebounder.

Now, the one problem with Gordon is his drop in 3 pt shooting, but that can probably be fixed.

I think Cam would be good off the bench at 3/4 and Saric potentially as a backup 4/5...but Saric depends on money...if we did get Gordon I'd probably hope to keep Baynes and move on from Saric unless he was dirt cheap like some expect.

We possibly draft a PF too....especially if we jump, and Gordon only has 2 years left on a declining contract...fits the timeline at 24 so younger than Saric...still a lot of upside and we could use that athleticism.

I think contractually, That Gordon's declining contract would be very tempting to Sarver with interest in cap reduction cost as well as the complimentary implications towards Ayton and Bridges extensions. I'm curious though, Do you ( Bwgood) think Gordon has solid potential as a 4/5 option situationally for us ( some instances of uptempo small ball lineups) given his elite athleticism?

Over the years Gordon has bulked up. He can definitely play small ball 5 and give you a roster to match teams like GS when Draymond plays the 5.

[NapoleonII]

Gordon has something inside of him conducive to losing that cannot even be called basketball IQ.

There was a play where he got called for an offensive foul, I think, when there was 1 minute left and his team needed a bucket. He turned it over, his teammates got a defensive stop, he demanded the ball, and committed the exact same thing for another turnover.

His intangibles are the opposite of players like Bridges, Ginobli, Kawhi.

He loses games. That's what he does. He lets his weaknesses define his impact on the court and doesn't work hard enough on the things he is good at.

[ImNotMcDiSwear]

Gordon has something inside of him conducive to losing that cannot even be called basketball IQ.

There was a play where he got called for an offensive foul, I think, when there was 1 minute left and his team needed a bucket. He turned it over, demanded the ball, and committed the exact same thing for another turnover.

His intangibles are the opposite of players like Bridges, Ginobli, Kawhi.

He loses games. That's what he does. He lets his weaknesses define his impact on the court and doesn't work hard enough on the things he is good at.

But he gets up SO HIGH!

Watch on YouTube

[Ghost of Kleine]

It will be interesting to see what they do. Gordon would give us better defense than Saric, Oubre or Johnson at the 4 and is also an elite finisher over 70%...and a better passer, and better rebounder...Saric averages slightly more but he plays some C and played without Ayton and Baynes a bit and Gordon played mostly with Vucevic and Isaac. Gordon used to be a monster rebounder.

Now, the one problem with Gordon is his drop in 3 pt shooting, but that can probably be fixed.

I think Cam would be good off the bench at 3/4 and Saric potentially as a backup 4/5...but Saric depends on money...if we did get Gordon I'd probably hope to keep Baynes and move on from Saric unless he was dirt cheap like some expect.

We possibly draft a PF too....especially if we jump, and Gordon only has 2 years left on a declining contract...fits the timeline at 24 so younger than Saric...still a lot of upside and we could use that athleticism.

I think contractually, That Gordon's declining contract would be very tempting to Sarver with interest in cap reduction cost as well as the complimentary implications towards Ayton and Bridges extensions. I'm curious though, Do you ( Bwgood) think Gordon has solid potential as a 4/5 option situationally for us ( some instances of uptempo small ball lineups) given his elite athleticism?

I really don't think we should be looking at Gordon at all. Dude's the second-best player on his team currently, but I can't imagine we would start him, given the extraordinary value Cam Johnson gives our starting lineup by opening up the floor. I think Cam's already more valuable than Gordon due to his gravity. Not to mention the pretty impressive job he did guarding Kawhi last night... pretty incredible, actually, since no one predicted he would be a decent defender coming out of college.

I'm fine with not looking at a Gordon/Oubre swap AND keeping Oubre and starting Cam at the 4( IF our front office prefers that direction? But would our new best lineup then become Booker/ Bridges/ Oubre/ Cam/ Baynes? Which of our core then moves to the bench role IF Cam starts? And what do you see the newly adjusted lineup as? Lastly, With this newly implemented lineup, Who should be our best complimentary draft targets? Just trying to figure out the best rotational balance for this premise man?

Since Booker obviously wouldn't be going to a bench role, Should it be ...........Rubio, And then implement " Point Book"? With Rubio stabilizing the bench? Should Bridges go to a bench role with Oubre at the 3, And Cam now at the 4? Or would Cam start at the 3, And Oubre at the 4?

I say this, even though I am a fan of the idea of using Gordon in a more versatile defensive uyility role, kind of like a bigger more athletic Draymond Green type role, in a uptempo small ball offense. I wonder IF considering the likelihood of Orlando prioritizing draft assets and a possible rebuild scenario, IF we could give them the 10th pick for Gordon, Keep Oubre in an offensive role at the 3, Bridges at the 2, Booker at the point. And for now have Cam come off the bench as our 6th man (flamethrower) scoring role, And also Have Rubio stabilizing the bench? Could Booker actually handle the role of starting point guard full time?

[WeekapaugGroove]

Gordon has something inside of him conducive to losing that cannot even be called basketball IQ.

There was a play where he got called for an offensive foul, I think, when there was 1 minute left and his team needed a bucket. He turned it over, his teammates got a defensive stop, he demanded the ball, and committed the exact same thing for another turnover.

His intangibles are the opposite of players like Bridges, Ginobli, Kawhi.

He loses games. That's what he does. He lets his weaknesses define his impact on the court and doesn't work hard enough on the things he is good at.

Zach Lowe has talked how if Gordon would ever embrace being a super role player he'd be a super valuable piece. Basically use his athleticism to create havoc on D, rebound, and just take what comes on O. The issue so far is Gordon still wants to be one of the 'star' types and a guy who wants the ball and try to do things himself.

If the suns would go after him this would be an important buy in they would need from Gordon. Like he's a better player than a guy like Cam Johnson but because Johnson is the type to embrace a role it's a fair argument he's actually a better fit for this starting lineup.

Now it's also not some given that Gordon wouldn't adapt, plenty of young players take time to really understand what they need to do on a winner.

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[bwgood77]

Earlier in the season I would have definitely considered that. But seeing Cam Johnson is really slotting into that starting PF slot, and Saric is playing the best ball of his PHX tenure in his role as backup PF, I question now if PF is actually a need for us. Based on the (admittedly very small) sample size so far, I think if Oubre does go, it'll be for a SG-SF defender/shooter/creator. Like a LeVert/ Joe Harris type.

Will be interesting to see how this lineup (with Cam at the PF spot continues to play!

It will be interesting to see what they do. Gordon would give us better defense than Saric, Oubre or Johnson at the 4 and is also an elite finisher over 70%...and a better passer, and better rebounder...Saric averages slightly more but he plays some C and played without Ayton and Baynes a bit and Gordon played mostly with Vucevic and Isaac. Gordon used to be a monster rebounder.

Now, the one problem with Gordon is his drop in 3 pt shooting, but that can probably be fixed.

I think Cam would be good off the bench at 3/4 and Saric potentially as a backup 4/5...but Saric depends on money...if we did get Gordon I'd probably hope to keep Baynes and move on from Saric unless he was dirt cheap like some expect.

We possibly draft a PF too....especially if we jump, and Gordon only has 2 years left on a declining contract...fits the timeline at 24 so younger than Saric...still a lot of upside and we could use that athleticism.

I think contractually, That Gordon's declining contract would be very tempting to Sarver with interest in cap reduction cost as well as the complimentary implications towards Ayton and Bridges extensions. I'm curious though, Do you ( Bwgood) think Gordon has solid potential as a 4/5 option situationally for us ( some instances of uptempo small ball lineups) given his elite athleticism?

Yes, as he finishes strong, is a good distributor, is a solid rebounder, good defender and has shown he can hit the 3 at a reasonably good rate (though he declined in that respect this year, however, he is 5/9 from 3 in the bubble).

He doesn't block shots, but that doesn't bother me too much, given that he is overall a pretty smart defender.

[bwgood77]

Yeah, the Spurs have low key added some really interesting you pieces. I loved Murray at #14 for us in the 2016 draft and for the life of me couldn't understand how he fell so far.

Disagree with you re Oubre, though. Pop is able to get the most out of players, and when you consider that Oubre's biggest problems - underwhelming team defense and decisionmaking on offense - are things that can be coached, I wouldn't be at all surprised if the Spurs were interested.... However. I do think the Spurs would hesitate to trade for a player who is about to command a big pay day. They've been able to get sweetheart deals with their players for years, and KO just isn't that type of guy at this point in his career. So for that reason more than the reasons you mention, I view the Spurs as unlikely landing spot.

I think he really wants players to play the right way, likes high iq, move the ball, team players, disciplined on defense, etc. Oubre doesn't seem like a Pop type player at all. I could see him wanting Bridges, or even Cam, though. Possibly even Saric.

Counterpoint.. Rudy Gay

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Rudy Gay though, isn't a necessarily a low iq player. When he was with the Kings, right before he went to SA, he was averaging over 3 assists per game, had increased his 3 ball to 34-36%, and finishes at the rim at over 71%. He had become a solid vet by then.

[MathiasPW]

I won't be surprised at all if Memphis avoids the playoff by staying at least 4 games ahead of everyone. People continue to underrate them.

I think the main thing is to just root against every team whenever they play anyone else, and when they play each other root for the one lower in the standings...mostly. Of course the main thing is us winning out.

Today's episode of Posts That Didn't Age Well

[bwgood77]

It will be interesting to see what they do. Gordon would give us better defense than Saric, Oubre or Johnson at the 4 and is also an elite finisher over 70%...and a better passer, and better rebounder...Saric averages slightly more but he plays some C and played without Ayton and Baynes a bit and Gordon played mostly with Vucevic and Isaac. Gordon used to be a monster rebounder.

Now, the one problem with Gordon is his drop in 3 pt shooting, but that can probably be fixed.

I think Cam would be good off the bench at 3/4 and Saric potentially as a backup 4/5...but Saric depends on money...if we did get Gordon I'd probably hope to keep Baynes and move on from Saric unless he was dirt cheap like some expect.

We possibly draft a PF too....especially if we jump, and Gordon only has 2 years left on a declining contract...fits the timeline at 24 so younger than Saric...still a lot of upside and we could use that athleticism.

I think contractually, That Gordon's declining contract would be very tempting to Sarver with interest in cap reduction cost as well as the complimentary implications towards Ayton and Bridges extensions. I'm curious though, Do you ( Bwgood) think Gordon has solid potential as a 4/5 option situationally for us ( some instances of uptempo small ball lineups) given his elite athleticism?

I really don't think we should be looking at Gordon at all. Dude's the second-best player on his team currently, but I can't imagine we would start him, given the extraordinary value Cam Johnson gives our starting lineup by opening up the floor. I think Cam's already more valuable than Gordon due to his gravity. Not to mention the pretty impressive job he did guarding Kawhi last night... pretty incredible, actually, since no one predicted he would be a decent defender coming out of college.

Cam has been a nice surprise, and is a hell of a shooter and nice player, but he's not nearly as good as Gordon and they are both 24. We have a pretty limited sample size too. I like him as a starter based on our current players, but think he's probably long term a very solid role player off the bench if we are a solid team. Gordon only has two years left on his contract too, so if for some reason it wasn't a great fit, it wouldn't be some long term commitment.

[bwgood77]

I think contractually, That Gordon's declining contract would be very tempting to Sarver with interest in cap reduction cost as well as the complimentary implications towards Ayton and Bridges extensions. I'm curious though, Do you ( Bwgood) think Gordon has solid potential as a 4/5 option situationally for us ( some instances of uptempo small ball lineups) given his elite athleticism?

I really don't think we should be looking at Gordon at all. Dude's the second-best player on his team currently, but I can't imagine we would start him, given the extraordinary value Cam Johnson gives our starting lineup by opening up the floor. I think Cam's already more valuable than Gordon due to his gravity. Not to mention the pretty impressive job he did guarding Kawhi last night... pretty incredible, actually, since no one predicted he would be a decent defender coming out of college.

I'm fine with not looking at a Gordon/Oubre swap AND keeping Oubre and starting Cam at the 4( IF our front office prefers that direction? But would our new best lineup then become Booker/ Bridges/ Oubre/ Cam/ Baynes? Which of our core then moves to the bench role IF Cam starts? And what do you see the newly adjusted lineup as? Lastly, With this newly implemented lineup, Who should be our best complimentary draft targets? Just trying to figure out the best rotational balance for this premise man?

Since Booker obviously wouldn't be going to a bench role, Should it be ...........Rubio, And then implement " Point Book"? With Rubio stabilizing the bench? Should Bridges go to a bench role with Oubre at the 3, And Cam now at the 4? Or would Cam start at the 3, And Oubre at the 4?

I say this, even though I am a fan of the idea of using Gordon in a more versatile defensive uyility role, kind of like a bigger more athletic Draymond Green type role, in a uptempo small ball offense. I wonder IF considering the likelihood of Orlando prioritizing draft assets and a possible rebuild scenario, IF we could give them the 10th pick for Gordon, Keep Oubre in an offensive role at the 3, Bridges at the 2, Booker at the point. And for now have Cam come off the bench as our 6th man (flamethrower) scoring role, And also Have Rubio stabilizing the bench? Could Booker actually handle the role of starting point guard full time?

Cam won't start when/if Oubre is back. And Rubio is pretty damn important at leading our team. He needs to start.

[bwgood77]

I won't be surprised at all if Memphis avoids the playoff by staying at least 4 games ahead of everyone. People continue to underrate them.

I think the main thing is to just root against every team whenever they play anyone else, and when they play each other root for the one lower in the standings...mostly. Of course the main thing is us winning out.

Today's episode of Posts That Didn't Age Well

Yeah, they played the Blazers and Spurs tough, coming down to the end, one going into OT, but didn't look as good yesterday.

[NapoleonII]

I think if Oubre plays (and for me that's only like a 40-50% chance of happening) he will come off the bench. Coming off rest, rust, and injury?

And the moment we get to 2 losses in the bubble, our season is pretty much over anyways.

[Ghost of Kleine]

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[Skin]

Gordon has something inside of him conducive to losing that cannot even be called basketball IQ.

There was a play where he got called for an offensive foul, I think, when there was 1 minute left and his team needed a bucket. He turned it over, his teammates got a defensive stop, he demanded the ball, and committed the exact same thing for another turnover.

His intangibles are the opposite of players like Bridges, Ginobli, Kawhi.

He loses games. That's what he does. He lets his weaknesses define his impact on the court and doesn't work hard enough on the things he is good at.

That would be a terrible mistake if you thought that defines him. He's the type of player that brings energy to the floor and when his shot isn't falling he still helps on defense and is the best (non-PG) passer on the team. He always promotes sharing the ball. Every time he's interviewed and asked why we won, he frequently says "we won because we moved the ball around". Plus, he can also bring the ball up court. I admit his shot is streaky - but at least knows when to stop and recollect himself - not a chucker, like T-Ross and Fournier. Any knock on his BBIQ is just silly. If anything, he can be overly aggressive (thus the charges).

[WeekapaugGroove]

I won't be surprised at all if Memphis avoids the playoff by staying at least 4 games ahead of everyone. People continue to underrate them.

I think the main thing is to just root against every team whenever they play anyone else, and when they play each other root for the one lower in the standings...mostly. Of course the main thing is us winning out.

Today's episode of Posts That Didn't Age Well

Yeah, they played the Blazers and Spurs tough, coming down to the end, one going into OT, but didn't look as good yesterday.

Short of winning a playoff series or something like that this has already been a horrible awful trip for Memphis. Winslow hurts his hip again, he was a gamble to trade for, good player but concerning injury history. Then JJJ tears his meniscus, if he has the repair surgery hell likely miss a chunk of next season and if he has to go the removal/trim route he'll be back by the start of the season but not having an intact meniscus can cause issues down the road.

At this point they probably want to get out of Orlando without further damage.

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[Skin]

I think contractually, That Gordon's declining contract would be very tempting to Sarver with interest in cap reduction cost as well as the complimentary implications towards Ayton and Bridges extensions. I'm curious though, Do you ( Bwgood) think Gordon has solid potential as a 4/5 option situationally for us ( some instances of uptempo small ball lineups) given his elite athleticism?

I really don't think we should be looking at Gordon at all. Dude's the second-best player on his team currently, but I can't imagine we would start him, given the extraordinary value Cam Johnson gives our starting lineup by opening up the floor. I think Cam's already more valuable than Gordon due to his gravity. Not to mention the pretty impressive job he did guarding Kawhi last night... pretty incredible, actually, since no one predicted he would be a decent defender coming out of college.

I say this, even though I am a fan of the idea of using Gordon in a more versatile defensive uyility role, kind of like a bigger more athletic Draymond Green type role, in a uptempo small ball offense. I wonder IF considering the likelihood of Orlando prioritizing draft assets and a possible rebuild scenario, IF we could give them the 10th pick for Gordon, Keep Oubre in an offensive role at the 3, Bridges at the 2, Booker at the point. And for now have Cam come off the bench as our 6th man (flamethrower) scoring role, And also Have Rubio stabilizing the bench? Could Booker actually handle the role of starting point guard full time?

Gordon for 10 is not unreasonable, but what salary would come back?

Or if Oubre is not in it, would something around Bridges work? Do Suns fans value Bridges over Oubre?