Deandre Ayton news and discussion

[RedIndian]

I think Saric for all his physical shortcomings plays the role on offense as a 5 perfectly.

- Very good 3 point shooter at the top of the key
- Very physical in the low post, and will post up a smaller guy. Will also battle the larger dudes and try and attack the basket even though he's a poor finisher given his lack of length and athleticism.
- Very patient in the high post. Can make the pass to the cutter or find an open man for the 3. All of that patience however comes from his comfort in putting the ball on the floor and taking it to the rack if needed even if he's not a very good finisher.

Ayton simply needs to learn how to do these 3 things.

- Nail that top of the key 3 point shot. At the moment, he shoots it way too flat. Flashes of Dragan Bender every time he shoots that 3.
- Low post Ayton's actually decent. 5 feet from the basket, I'm very confident that Ayton finishes it, although his refusal to dunk or draw a foul is damn irritating. He'd get an extra 4 points every game if he just drew contact on those finishes.
- High post is his biggest weakness. Everything stems from his poor ball-handling. He's so reluctant to put the ball on the floor that he looks petrified every time he catches the ball in the high post. Will look to immediately jack up the long middy or pass it back to the perimeter.

On self-creation or set plays, the only play he's actually good at at is the turn around over the left shoulder. He's shown flashes of a nice spin move on occasion (which I think Rubio taught him), but simply doesn't do that enough.

[NTB]

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[NTB]

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[suns12345]

I think Saric for all his physical shortcomings plays the role on offense as a 5 perfectly.

- Very good 3 point shooter at the top of the key
- Very physical in the low post, and will post up a smaller guy. Will also battle the larger dudes and try and attack the basket even though he's a poor finisher given his lack of length and athleticism.
- Very patient in the high post. Can make the pass to the cutter or find an open man for the 3. All of that patience however comes from his comfort in putting the ball on the floor and taking it to the rack if needed even if he's not a very good finisher.

Ayton simply needs to learn how to do these 3 things.

- Nail that top of the key 3 point shot. At the moment, he shoots it way too flat. Flashes of Dragan Bender every time he shoots that 3.
- Low post Ayton's actually decent. 5 feet from the basket, I'm very confident that Ayton finishes it, although his refusal to dunk or draw a foul is damn irritating. He'd get an extra 4 points every game if he just drew contact on those finishes.
- High post is his biggest weakness. Everything stems from his poor ball-handling. He's so reluctant to put the ball on the floor that he looks petrified every time he catches the ball in the high post. Will look to immediately jack up the long middy or pass it back to the perimeter.

On self-creation or set plays, the only play he's actually good at at is the turn around over the left shoulder. He's shown flashes of a nice spin move on occasion (which I think Rubio taught him), but simply doesn't do that enough.

Saric is great in that spot... and to be honest, on defense he is ok... Goes straight up and is smart

[SunsRback4Good]

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Very surprising but I'll take it.

[RedIndian]

It's not the dunks per se though is it. It's the avoiding contact and drawing fouls. KAT and Jokic average 6 trips to the line. Embiid averages 9. Deandre gets 2 shots at the line per game. That's really poor.

[jsierra1985]

All im saying is.....

Whether the stats dont look pretty or whatever numbers fans want to look at....

Look at our win/loss column

Big part of it is because of his defensive presence/ rebounding

the suns do not need booker or ayton to light up the score board to win basketball games....

We should be thrilled

[Revived]

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[Bogyo]

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Wow. That looks nasty. No judgement yet on this - eye test, and other numbers have been good on him on D.
And I'm not his biggest fan to say the least, I could easily imagine someone else in his place on the Suns.

[WeekapaugGroove]

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Wow. That looks nasty. No judgement yet on this - eye test, and other numbers have been good on him on D.
And I'm not his biggest fan to say the least, I could easily imagine someone else in his place on the Suns.

Something to monitor but could also be small sample size noise because I agree eye test wise he's been fine.

Overall the net rating numbers for the starters haven't been great but some of that has been fourth quarter with a lead clunkyness. Now they need to improve that and learn to actually play out these games and not try to just run out the game.

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[Revived]

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Wow. That looks nasty. No judgement yet on this - eye test, and other numbers have been good on him on D.
And I'm not his biggest fan to say the least, I could easily imagine someone else in his place on the Suns.

Yeah it kinda surprised me too because he looks solid defensively. He still has many lapses and gets caught flat footed but overall he’s been fine on that side.

His effort has improved tremendously for rim protecting since he entered the league. I think the next step for him in that regard is going to be to contest shots at the rim in an angle so he can still be in position to grab the rebound after the opponent misses the shot. It’s something Gobert and Embiid does often.

In the last game, Crowder and CP3 both actually got on Ayton for it as he went to protect the rim but stood there watching afterwards and didn’t bother to get back in the play for the rebound. Crowder gets on him first and if you watch till the end, you can see CP3 showing him how he should be using his body for it.

Spoiler:

[bigfoot]

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Wow. That looks nasty. No judgement yet on this - eye test, and other numbers have been good on him on D.
And I'm not his biggest fan to say the least, I could easily imagine someone else in his place on the Suns.

Something to monitor but could also be small sample size noise because I agree eye test wise he's been fine.

Overall the net rating numbers for the starters haven't been great but some of that has been fourth quarter with a lead clunkyness. Now they need to improve that and learn to actually play out these games and not try to just run out the game.

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If you look at the advanced PIE metric (player impact estimate) he is second behind Chris Paul and ahead of Johnson, Payne, Bridges, and Booker. His overall impact is positive compared to most players.

Now he does have a surprisingly large defensive rating but so do Booker and Paul. They are all targets of the pick-n-roll. It would interesting to see if that is the area where he is suffering on defense.

[WeekapaugGroove]

Wow. That looks nasty. No judgement yet on this - eye test, and other numbers have been good on him on D.
And I'm not his biggest fan to say the least, I could easily imagine someone else in his place on the Suns.

Something to monitor but could also be small sample size noise because I agree eye test wise he's been fine.

Overall the net rating numbers for the starters haven't been great but some of that has been fourth quarter with a lead clunkyness. Now they need to improve that and learn to actually play out these games and not try to just run out the game.

Sent from my SM-G986U using RealGM mobile app

If you look at the advanced PIE metric (player impact estimate) he is second behind Chris Paul and ahead of Johnson, Payne, Bridges, and Booker. His overall impact is positive compared to most players.

Now he does have a surprisingly large defensive rating but so do Booker and Paul. They are all targets of the pick-n-roll. It would interesting to see if that is the area where he is suffering on defense.

Yeah I'm always a little careful using net rating (basically a running +/- per 100 pos) because it can at times have false equivalences and it's especially unreliable with small samples. Like an opponent can have a big run in near garbage time and it throws the numbers off. Over the course of a whole season it tells a more accurate story.

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[Bogyo]

Something to monitor but could also be small sample size noise because I agree eye test wise he's been fine.

Overall the net rating numbers for the starters haven't been great but some of that has been fourth quarter with a lead clunkyness. Now they need to improve that and learn to actually play out these games and not try to just run out the game.

Sent from my SM-G986U using RealGM mobile app

If you look at the advanced PIE metric (player impact estimate) he is second behind Chris Paul and ahead of Johnson, Payne, Bridges, and Booker. His overall impact is positive compared to most players.

Now he does have a surprisingly large defensive rating but so do Booker and Paul. They are all targets of the pick-n-roll. It would interesting to see if that is the area where he is suffering on defense.

Yeah I'm always a little careful using net rating (basically a running +/- per 100 pos) because it can at times have false equivalences and it's especially unreliable with small samples. Like an opponent can have a big run in near garbage time and it throws the numbers off. Over the course of a whole season it tells a more accurate story.

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Definatley need to watch longer term on this one. Plus take into consideration that other great defenders (Paul on team D and some on 1v1, Bridges and Crowder in both, as well as Carter and Payne) make other defenders "look" better, by making their jobs easier down low. So it could be that Ayton is somewhat looks better becouse of their "halo", as well as Ayton visibly getting better on that end of the court.

[Frank Lee]

‘Stood there watching’ would be Ayton’s Indian name....

[GoodBehavior]

If Ayton was smart, he would pack on weight this offseason (15+ lb). Mo Bamba has packed on weight and it has helped him from being unplayable to an interesting big. I think Ayton envision himself as a forward/center, but that experiment is just not yielding great results. His dream of being an Anthony Davis / Kevin Garnett type player is pure fantasy at this point. Dribbling is still rough and looks awkward, 3 point shot hasn't progress much. Pick and roll offense looks to have regressed, etc.

I remember Ryan says he was drafted to be a low post dominant player. You can't be a low post player at 250 lbs. His defense will be negatively impacted (if he gains weight) but his offense would take off, IMO. He looks undersized as a center, which is not what fans envisioned when he was drafted.

[NTB]

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[lilfishi22]

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Wow. That looks nasty. No judgement yet on this - eye test, and other numbers have been good on him on D.
And I'm not his biggest fan to say the least, I could easily imagine someone else in his place on the Suns.

Yeah it kinda surprised me too because he looks solid defensively. He still has many lapses and gets caught flat footed but overall he’s been fine on that side.

His effort has improved tremendously for rim protecting since he entered the league. I think the next step for him in that regard is going to be to contest shots at the rim in an angle so he can still be in position to grab the rebound after the opponent misses the shot. It’s something Gobert and Embiid does often.

In the last game, Crowder and CP3 both actually got on Ayton for it as he went to protect the rim but stood there watching afterwards and didn’t bother to get back in the play for the rebound. Crowder gets on him first and if you watch till the end, you can see CP3 showing him how he should be using his body for it.

Spoiler:

I remember that play. Gave me nightmares of Year 1 and parts of Year 2. Granted he's looked really really good on D but yeah he still has lapses.

[lilfishi22]

If Ayton was smart, he would pack on weight this offseason (15+ lb). Mo Bamba has packed on weight and it has helped him from being unplayable to an interesting big. I think Ayton envision himself as a forward/center, but that experiment is just not yielding great results. His dream of being an Anthony Davis / Kevin Garnett type player is pure fantasy at this point. Dribbling is still rough and looks awkward, 3 point shot hasn't progress much. Pick and roll offense looks to have regressed, etc.

I remember Ryan says he was drafted to be a low post dominant player. You can't be a low post player at 250 lbs. His defense will be negatively impacted (if he gains weight) but his offense would take off, IMO. He looks undersized as a center, which is not what fans envisioned when he was drafted.

I disagree. Ayton is as big and as strong as he was expected to be. As for Bambam he had to pack on weight because he was severely underweight for his size so packing on weight was just to get back to average. Ayton isn't a low post dominant player, matter of fact, he doesn't want to dominant on offense at all seemingly. He's the perfect size to play C in today's NBA where those 300lb C's of yesteryears are extremely rare (Boban? anyone else?). 250lbs is perfect as he has enough size and strength to guard most C's but also light enough for him to do the thing he does best at and that's sliding laterally and moving around the court.

The fact is this, gaining weight isn't going to do much for him other than slow him down and keep him even closer to the ground because he's not going to use the added weight for offense anyway

[bwgood77]

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They are all the #1 options on their teams too....probably get way more touches than Ayton.